... Let me explain , we all love taking photos and that's why we are on this wonderful site,and yes I know it's a one a day photo project primarily, and being human all love compliments ,and that's my point are we not too nicey nicey you scratch my back I scratch yours with our feedback ?
We all say how good the photo is but never how it could have been improved , or how they would have taken it differently ,angles etc or too much photoShop or not enough etc .
I know we are not professional photographers but a little critiscm would surely help us all become better photographers and would not have the reverse affect and put people off photography ?
I have opened the debate and the floor is avaliable for us all ,and in closing leave my photos ready for first constructive critiscm .
I would welcome constructive critiques. I think the problem arises in that when one is new you are rather awed (or even very much so) by the talent seen on the site, and would not feel confident in offering suggestions for improvement. My followers do often give very kind comments but I have also been delighted to have constructive help too.
Maybe we need a symbol to put on the ones where we would REALLY like assistance?
Because I often put great effort into my photos, I am pretty sensitive, but when I want criticism, I will ask for it specifically. I have appreciated the responses to that, and they have always been said kindly. That being said, to have some unasked-for, harsh criticism would sting. For many years, I taught writing, and the philosophy I learned from research and practice in giving students feedback on their writing is this: emphasize what was written over the mechanics. To apply that here—what is the picture of? What is it about? What is its message? What does it bring to your mind? Then go to the photography aspects. I have found by giving thoughtful feedback, it forces me to think what makes a good photo. Over time, I absorb that and can see it in my own photos, and improve that way.
Hi Al, I think you can always ask for critique on a photo and you will get it. I would suggest that as you build up your followers they will only be to happy to pass constructive critique on your shots. One aspect of this site that has struck me is how supportive the people are, yes you could say it is to fluffy but as time goes on in the project you may find your phojo is lacking. It is at times like this support is available by the way of ideas/suggestions to help. 365 is a diary really of your year it is your project so if you want critique then you only have to ask and you will get it by the bucket loads. Otherwise I like the friendly attitude of people here to my photos which I have enjoyed taking and just want to share with other people. I have met some awesome photographers who really know one end of the lens from the other, they put me to shame but they support me. If you wish to expand your network try the London Meet on the 29th March. If you are lucky @steampowered will only be to happy to discuss your shots.
@alsaintsfc I think there is something to be said for learning by doing and by seeing others work. I follow photogs I admire and study their exif info.I try techniques that I see done on the site.I enter all the challenges more as an exercise than a competition.All these things help me learn and grow.In addition ,the positive encouragement of friends on the site give me the courage I need to post something new or out of my comfort zone. I like the fact that we are a positive group.It creates an atmosphere of acceptance and safety.But that's just me.I know there are many folks who desire and welcome critiques.There has been discussion about designating your albums that way.For now maybe you can just specify that on your images?That you would prefer constructive criticism?
I offer constructive critiques only when asked. I would never just show up and say "great photo but it would have been better if you cropped it here and sharpened it there". Especially to newcomers.
I think constructive critiscm is a good idea but as others have said when you first start it can be awe inspiringing the levels of expertise go from basic to phenomenal and when you try really hard if someone criticises it would be easy to give up. Sometimes you can tell if no one looks at your photo that it needs improving but as you grow in confidence yourself you can ask
When people start to follow you you build up a relationship and start to feel as if you can ask people because you trust their judgement admire their photos and want to ask how they achieved something, many are happy to tell you if you ask
Critique me. I need it. Happy to critique just feel I hardly know anything.....till 4 months ago I had never shot of auto and had no clue about anything.....
Al another approach I think is to ask lots of questions on images we like. I really don't feel I know enough to critique but know what I like when see images. Perhaps I need to ask more rather than just say I like it.
@alsaintsfc - When I did 365 several years ago we used to play a little critique game where people would critique on the photo of the last person who posted in the thread. Maybe we could revive that game???
I like the idea of critique - but i'm also aware that on 365 people come along for a raft of reasons - and that changes the ball game a bit and because this is online and has a social media element - we don't know each others back stories or sensitivities. Some days i may feel robust and others less so.
There has been much research on the subject of feeback back - and it is generally accepted that negative feeback is ineffective. (not that this is what is being suggested)
The 'formula' of "commend.. recommend... commend.." as a way to enhance current skills and overcome less good things can be a good approach.
Recently i attended a seminar about working with children with Dyslexia - and they were integrating this approach into the classroom for peer feedback - where the children looked at each others work... Here they used "two stars and a wish...." kind of cute but effective!!
... dunno.. just random wednesday morning ramblings...
ps... I'm up for feedback and at the end of the day can choose to take on board or not!!!... One of the main reasons i save into FAV's is for my own learning
No image is totally bad or there is always something good in every image. When I comment I will state what I like and ask if they have tried ____, because it might make ____better. Not necessarly a critique, but a way to increase their and mine knowledge.
I agree with the topic. It is great to receive both positive support, and potential feedback of a photo. Hey, I already have people that love me in real life. They love all my photos, but because I took them. You know? Also, it's really good to hear what a photo of mine looks like from another perspective.
They are my babies. I love most of them. But, just like real children, just because I love them doesn't mean everyone else will. And that's ok.
I think criticism should be truthful and honest above all else. But respectful as well.
I welcome any and all criticism on my shots. Some days my photo will rock, and other days it is going to stink. That's just the nature of 365 days of photos. But, it's good to have both.
Post the good ones, and post the bad ones. Doesn't matter.
I am no expert, but I will offer my opinion/feedback on any photo. Just ask me.
@mej2011 , This was a number of years ago...like maybe 2010 or so. I can't even remember how it was played. I'll have to look it up and see if there are any old threads to jog my memory....
Given that everyone has their own reason for doing this project, no one can assume critiquing is wanted by anyone without them asking. As for people being nicey nice, let me reiterate, people on this site have their own reasons for doing their projects. Skill levels run the full spectrum. Who are we to judge what someone else should do differently? Only if they ask will they see critiquing.
I invite CC in my profile. I like to hear what's "right" with a photo but feel I'll only improve if I understand what could be "righter" in a shot. I want to improve and, I'm guessing, that will happen with practice. However, the guidance of others will speed my improvement. Just my opinion, of course.
@dmortega
Regardless of why a person is here, what's wrong with offering a way in which they might improve their skill? Criticism doesn't have to be bad thing.......
@peggysirk , do you remember that Critique Me type game? I know I did it a number of times when I did 365 last go around. But I don't remember how it worked.
I agree with the need for critique - I know not everyone wants/needs it, and I certainly do not feel qualified to give it - but, for myself, I do not feel I can critiques my own photos well enough and am always open to trying other people's ideas/suggestions. Some will work for me and some won't. But I know I will also learn from what doesn't work
I think it is too difficult giving critical comments here unless it is asked - one reads the words and it is too easy to think its personal. It can produce anti feelings towards that person and for your own effort. I have learned to study exif and just observe. One gets better gradually.
@kimshawball I never saw it or participated, Kim, so I can't help you with the format. But I like the sound of it. I would love some constructive criticism in a discussion format where everyone knows you're looking for pointers/ways to improve. Maybe someone else reading this thread can help with the details...
I choose to take the "be positive, but be SPECIFIC" approach to my commenting. Rather than saying something simple like "beautiful," I choose to say exactly what it is that I think is beautiful. I always try to say at least one thing that I like. Everyone needs encouragement - there is enough negativity in the world already - and by giving a SPECIFIC encouraging word we can help lift someone's confidence without worry of being hurtful.
@mej2011 wow that is harsh!! I think it should definitely be the other way round.
I would never critique someones photo unless they asked for it and overall that is how it is done.
This is a 365 project not a critiquing project...some people do it for fun and don't want criticism no matter how constructive and that is ok and they are not just after positive comments they are just enjoying what they do for themselves.
Sorry, but I really wouldn't rely on this site as a reliable source of authoritative critique, you simply aren't going to get it. If you're really serious about using critique as a tool to improve your craft (as I am) may I recommend the approach I ended up taking after having the same frustrations you have expressed as far as the lack of substance to commenting here: I developed relationships with three career professional photographers for advice/critique/instruction. My criteria was that they be full-time photographers (i.e. source of income/career), and have at least 20 years experience. About once a month I send them a couple photos I have shot in the last few weeks for critique and I compare the responses of all three giving special focus to any points where they all say the same thing. The critique is far more in depth than "I would have cropped it so", or "I would have processed it like this" or "I would have done this or that". Here for example is one of their critique on my most recent submission to them (and yes I give them a small fee for their time - about $10 - it's very worth it):
"Hi Joe! This photgraph has a very good dispostion that has some very good elements that ponder time come and gone. A sort of emptiness feeling of people that were there once. The diagonal lines of the rail line leading to the rail cars leaves the inpression of a head on about to take place with the sort of out of place position of the rail cars. The balance of the rail line in the center and diagonaly narrowing to the box cars is well composed and thought of. The box cars and rails are both well balanced both horizontally and vertically. The only thing that bothers me is the flat bedrail car with the beam on top, it could be removed, with some effort, however it was part of the shot, I just find it takes a little away from the composition. On the other hand it does add another layer (dimensional effect) to it. It could be viewed in either way, just a note. The balance of the gray scale overall is great, however the whites of the grass could be toned down a little to help keep the focus better on the rails and the box cars. The grass highlights sit at about 1 or 2 on the gray scale, and a slightly slower shutter speed would bring them done to about 3 or 4, and still leave other area's of the shot to produce the gray scale of 1 and 2 in other small areas. Depth of field and the depth of the image is excellent, the foreground middle ground and background(the sky) with the rails of close to 2 thirds frame add great depth. Some spotting could be done Joe on the top of the rails to clean up the rails; to produce a more even tone and clean direction of the rails. The grass on the rail right front should be removed, it is a distraction."
@mej2011 yes definitely when unwanted and rude, I would not tell you what was wrong with your clothing choice if you did not ask why is criticising someone's photo when they didn't ask any different.
If people want your opinion they will ask. If people want it then I offer but not I respect there choice.
@mummarazzii
Who said anything about rude? There is a way to give constructive criticism without being rude.
I was not the original poster of this discussion, but it is obvious that others aside from myself feel that there is not enough constructive criticism on this site. There has to be some sort of balance otherwise this site will lose participants.
@mej2011 it is rude to give it when it is not asked...I agree if people ask for it then it should be given....but it should not be forced on people that is not what this is about.
Everyone's project is different and some people don't want it and that should be ok.
If you want CC ask for it, it is that easy.
Tweets ahoy!
Join the Group
Pin With Me
Maybe we need a symbol to put on the ones where we would REALLY like assistance?
When people start to follow you you build up a relationship and start to feel as if you can ask people because you trust their judgement admire their photos and want to ask how they achieved something, many are happy to tell you if you ask
I like the idea of critique - but i'm also aware that on 365 people come along for a raft of reasons - and that changes the ball game a bit and because this is online and has a social media element - we don't know each others back stories or sensitivities. Some days i may feel robust and others less so.
There has been much research on the subject of feeback back - and it is generally accepted that negative feeback is ineffective. (not that this is what is being suggested)
The 'formula' of "commend.. recommend... commend.." as a way to enhance current skills and overcome less good things can be a good approach.
Recently i attended a seminar about working with children with Dyslexia - and they were integrating this approach into the classroom for peer feedback - where the children looked at each others work... Here they used "two stars and a wish...." kind of cute but effective!!
... dunno.. just random wednesday morning ramblings...
ps... I'm up for feedback and at the end of the day can choose to take on board or not!!!... One of the main reasons i save into FAV's is for my own learning
They are my babies. I love most of them. But, just like real children, just because I love them doesn't mean everyone else will. And that's ok.
I think criticism should be truthful and honest above all else. But respectful as well.
I welcome any and all criticism on my shots. Some days my photo will rock, and other days it is going to stink. That's just the nature of 365 days of photos. But, it's good to have both.
Post the good ones, and post the bad ones. Doesn't matter.
I am no expert, but I will offer my opinion/feedback on any photo. Just ask me.
I like that idea! Don't recall ever seeing that game.
Ah. I started in 2011
Regardless of why a person is here, what's wrong with offering a way in which they might improve their skill? Criticism doesn't have to be bad thing.......
I agree with the need for critique - I know not everyone wants/needs it, and I certainly do not feel qualified to give it - but, for myself, I do not feel I can critiques my own photos well enough and am always open to trying other people's ideas/suggestions. Some will work for me and some won't. But I know I will also learn from what doesn't work
Then perhaps those people should specify on their profile "positive remarks only".
I would never critique someones photo unless they asked for it and overall that is how it is done.
This is a 365 project not a critiquing project...some people do it for fun and don't want criticism no matter how constructive and that is ok and they are not just after positive comments they are just enjoying what they do for themselves.
"Hi Joe! This photgraph has a very good dispostion that has some very good elements that ponder time come and gone. A sort of emptiness feeling of people that were there once. The diagonal lines of the rail line leading to the rail cars leaves the inpression of a head on about to take place with the sort of out of place position of the rail cars. The balance of the rail line in the center and diagonaly narrowing to the box cars is well composed and thought of. The box cars and rails are both well balanced both horizontally and vertically. The only thing that bothers me is the flat bedrail car with the beam on top, it could be removed, with some effort, however it was part of the shot, I just find it takes a little away from the composition. On the other hand it does add another layer (dimensional effect) to it. It could be viewed in either way, just a note. The balance of the gray scale overall is great, however the whites of the grass could be toned down a little to help keep the focus better on the rails and the box cars. The grass highlights sit at about 1 or 2 on the gray scale, and a slightly slower shutter speed would bring them done to about 3 or 4, and still leave other area's of the shot to produce the gray scale of 1 and 2 in other small areas. Depth of field and the depth of the image is excellent, the foreground middle ground and background(the sky) with the rails of close to 2 thirds frame add great depth. Some spotting could be done Joe on the top of the rails to clean up the rails; to produce a more even tone and clean direction of the rails. The grass on the rail right front should be removed, it is a distraction."
Harsh?! Offering to help someone by offering them suggestions or advice even if unwanted is harsh? Okay then. :)
If people want your opinion they will ask. If people want it then I offer but not I respect there choice.
Who said anything about rude? There is a way to give constructive criticism without being rude.
I was not the original poster of this discussion, but it is obvious that others aside from myself feel that there is not enough constructive criticism on this site. There has to be some sort of balance otherwise this site will lose participants.
Everyone's project is different and some people don't want it and that should be ok.
If you want CC ask for it, it is that easy.
I guess we agree to disagree on this one.