Photographer vs. Band: Copyright Violation

April 22nd, 2014
Sorry about the topic name...I wanted to convey what the article I'm posting is about. :)

One of my friends posted this online and I thought some members of the 365 community would be interested in reading it. I couldn't find another topic on it, so sorry if there is another post out there that has gotten past me.

http://www.rohanandersonphotography.com/red-jumpsuit-apparatus-copyright-violation

I'm just surprised with how unprofessionally the band dealt with the situation of the photographer asking that they either remove the picture or pay for the rights to use it.

Also, I hope no one decides to go out there and bash the band for this...I just thought others would like to read about this photographer defending his rights and property.
April 22nd, 2014
thank you for sharing :)
April 22nd, 2014
Thanks for that.
Did you notice that Red-Jumpsuit-Apparatus, is an anagram for -Dr, Jump Suit, us are Pprat.
April 22nd, 2014
Really interesting topic - thanks for posting!

In my career as a musician, I would probably say that some of the people I have met who've been the nicest, most genuine, totally cool people - and the people with whom I've developed some of the best working relationships - are often the gig photographers.

You tend to see a lot of the same guys shooting at various shows and festivals, and you get to recognise and know each other; personally, I try to make a point of talking to and introducing myself to the photographers at my gigs, and of making sure that I come over as professional, reasonable and friendly - I know that I need them and their images to promote myself in an industry where getting work isn't always straightforward.

I read Rohan Anderson's Blog post, and I have to say I have very little sympathy for the band (which was not how I expected to feel when I clicked on the link, coming from the music industry side of things!). To post an image either not knowing or not caring who owned the copyright in that fashion is beyond foolish - and if they are as big as they think they are (they're not; no one ever is), they ought to have known better. I frequently see pictures from shows I have played which I would like to post on my website, but I would not do so without express permission - my general rule is that if there's any doubt about whether that's OK for me to post the picture, I don't do it, as that's better not to take that risk.

Far, far worse, however, was the ludicrously unprofessional correspondence with the photographer. Again, a band like that should surely know that creating an impression of yourself as professional and likeable and easy to work with is key in this business! To respond like that from your band account is just insane - and these guys have got themselves blacklisted from a tour/media company now, as a result.

In the end, it's all about respect. The relationship between musicians and photographers is a symbiotic one, but can only function if each respects the other's art. I've never made any money out of photography, and I doubt I ever will - but I've been a full-time musician since I was sixteen, and I can imagine that trying to 'make it' (whatever that means!) as a photographer can be every bit as frustrating and difficult. I would've hoped that if anyone could appreciate the struggles and sacrifices made by someone following their dream of making a living from their art, and not treat that with exploitative, arrogant off-handishness, that would be musicians. But apparently, some people just don't get it.
April 22nd, 2014
I stopped posting my pictures on Facebook as, so called friends(musicians) won't pay for my service, but don't mind using my pictures to promote their cd's and band etc. she has taken my pictures and put them on their website and accept all the lovely comments, as if she took the picture- but she NEVER gives credit to me ! Others have copied them and made enlargements, I find this an extreme insult to me, she feels SHE is a bit of a "LOCAL CELEBRITY". Needless to say, I will not be promoting her swelled head ever again.
April 22nd, 2014
Wow.. Thats terrible... I felt horrible/used enough when a friend "borrowed" my images from facebook and put it on her own page {cropping my info out of it} so i imagine a band using your image is much much worse...
April 22nd, 2014
I have gone to a dress rehearsal for a community theater (light opera?) and was told by security: "NO FLASH", and the orchestral union would object to me being there with a camera. I explained that I was asked by a member of the company to bring my camera, but that didn't impress the security troops. Take that with a grain of salt.
April 22nd, 2014
Thanks for this ! I am actually going to a concert with my teenage girls with the camera in tow ! But I am also very aware of the copyright laws. I have already asked permission to be taking photographs of the bands, all have agreed. They have all been notified that I will own the copy right to all the pictures taken by me on that evening
April 22nd, 2014
Thank you for posting this. I have read it all and found the whole issue really interesting. Won't comment further as much has already been said.
April 22nd, 2014
Very interesting reading. Much has already been said but I am astounded by the rudeness and flippancy of the band in their posts - basic lack of respect.

My only comment is that people do not understand the power that the internet has to build and damage reputations. My motto is to always talk to someone online the same way that I would do face-to-face because once you post, your words are out there and cannot be retrieved.
April 22nd, 2014
@vickikell
Unfortunately, this happens a lot! A couple of decent gigs where the dressing room actually has a door handle and no damp patches on the sofa, and suddenly people think they're megastars who are doing their fans a favour just by showing up.
April 22nd, 2014
@manek43509 Yea, I think the band dug themselves in a hole on this one. I can see that maybe, initially, they thought it was some random person trying to fake claim rights (only if they didn't knowingly cut out the watermark). However, they were increasingly rude and unprofessional about it then attempted to get the photographer blacklisted. Anyway, it all blew up in their face. I'm sure word gets around the photography community as well and gig photographers may be weary of shooting for them in the future. Hopefully they learned a lesson from this experience.
April 22nd, 2014
Fascinating and I can understand why Rohan got upset.
April 23rd, 2014
@manek43509 It's so rude and so apparent their only thinking of one person, themselves. I never have charged anyone, I just want to create a portfolio. If they would just ask , I would oblige giving it to them, as imitation is the kindest flattery, but stealing shows their character. Hope fully people hear the news, a photographer OWNS THE RIGHTS
April 24th, 2014
@vickikell
Exactly. That shows a real lack of respect - and, as I said, it's bloody tough to be taken seriously in the music world, so that experience should give you a better appreciation for someone else also trying to make a living from their artform!

I am always a little envious of photographers' rights, though, if I'm absolutely honest - simply because the issue of "who owns the rights" is so easy in photography, compared to how complex and convoluted it is when it comes to recorded music!
April 24th, 2014
@ithinkithunk
My gut feeling is that they won't have 'learnt' anything. From reading their responses, and the way they handled the issue initially, I think I have a pretty good idea as to how they see themselves in this situation, and in the industry in general - sadly, I reckon they will think of themselves as victims of petty officiousness from a jobsworth photographer who just doesn't 'get it'.
April 24th, 2014
@manek43509 Yea. I looked at their twitter later that day and they had posted something along the lines of they think all art should be free (I'm guessing based off the photograph incident) and that they will be offering their cds (including their new one) for free on July 4th. Not sure if it's just a PR thing, I'd guess it's probably only for that day. I doubt they learned anything reading that.

It's great when art is free, but some people gain their livelihood through their art and it's wrong and disrespectful to just take it from them.
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