After reading through many of the mentoring posts, it’s apparent mentoring and critiquing have some key differences. So much so, 365project might want to make mentoring its own discussion category.
Paring photographers with the right mentors seem to be where the system could be made or broken. The problem is most people need help with a certain technique or help with a piece of technology and there is no targeted infrastructure on 365project to support that. The simple solution is what was done and just list a bunch of names and let folks pick who they think could be a good mentor for them.
A better solution would be to add a new tab on the “Your Settings” page and let each of us identify what skills we have (and are willing to teach) and what skills we don’t have (and desire to learn). The site could then build a list of best fit mentors.
365project also has a WEALTH of detail from each picture we post which could be used to match photographers and mentors!
1. If someone wants help with a specific camera or lens. 365project could 1st query all members who check off “I am willing to mentor others” in their settings page. Then query the Exif data of their images to create a list of mentors who use the same camera/lens. The finished list could even be sorted by how many images they posted using that camera/lens combination!
2. If someone wants to learn a certain shooting technique, 365project could use same technique to search the tag text of our images and find the best mentors. I.E. “Star trails”, “Macro”, “HDR”, “Portrait”... Sure, a person could find other users now using the search tag method, but you don’t know if they are willing to be mentors.
So, how might a “Mentoring” discussion area work? Glad you asked! If 365project had all the services above, it might be better to have an option for private messaging. Public postings of how to do something is not really a mentoring session as much as it is a public workshop. Which is yet another service 365project could offer :-)
I really like the mentoring bit - at least I like my own mentor! Have to say I selected a mentor based on simply wanting to improve photos and I picked a mentor from the list who posted photos that I identified with. Wasn't based on technical criteria or specific skills to improve, but there's a place for that too.
Regardless, this is a good thought. Might be at minimum worth it's own discussion category.
Marc - that is a good point and one which could also be assisted by a setting which allows you to filter any of the photo galleries by just people willing to be a mentor.
@rockface@jmrittle@rockface
Good input Cliff! Some of the points you mentioned were brought up in the original Mentoring System Thread. The idea behind the initial mentoring process thread was to see if there would be a demand for such a system and the outcome was that yes, it would indeed be welcomed. We then decided to keep it simple to begin with i.e. a list of people willing to be mentors - that wannabe mentees could contact directly to get started. There is quite a lot of work involved in developing and setting up a more comprehensive system, so I wanted to see if the initial positive reaction would continue (or just dwindle out) before taking it to the next level. Recent feedback (last week) has shown that those taking part in the system seem to be enjoying and profiting from it. But having said that, not so many people replied to the last thread requesting feed back to the simple system that is already in place. But it is holiday time for a lot of the members and 365 is definitely a lot less busy during June, July & August. So I left it that I would ask again re demand in September and then depending on the input we get then we could all decide whether we would put in the work to develop the system further. If that turns out to be the case we would probably need to get Ross @scrivna on board with various functions that would support a more comprehensive system.
Would be great to have you on board at that time if it happens!
Linda
Thanks Linda, I'd be happy to do what I can to help. Being a web developer myself, I totally understand these changes are not easy. But 365project has several features that are only a few changes away from making it work and a good size user community!
@rockface Sounds like you'll be just the kinda guy we'd need if we are going to take this further. I'll keep you tagged on the future posts. Thanks very much for the offer of help. Much appreciated.
@happysnap I don't see all the threads but my mentoring experience is the best. But I personally like the way it works. My mentor @vignouse was already giving me advice we just made it formal. If say once a month you could list the mentors who are currently willing to take on more mentees, I think that would be helpful. Maybe a thread we could post together our best result from the help of a mentor. This might get more people interested. You know we have fav of another 365 and our fave. How about either fav of my mentee or fav of mine assisted by mentor. I think that once a month would really drum up interest.
@joansmor, when you say "made it formal" how does that work here?
I wonder if it would be helpful if 365project could establish "formal" links between members. Maybe mentees would be able to click a "Thanks" button on the mentor's page (which gives them a point). Points could also be given for winning contests or being active in the forms... This recognition system could feed an ongoing award program which honors photographers who go the extra mile. This is a common practice in photo clubs.
Sorry to rant... but i was looking over the Competitions section and think this is another area which really needs an integrated solution... maybe more than the mentoring system :-)
The current method works, but user forums are not the best solution for a photo competition. Just seems like a lot of work for whoever has to compile all the images and results.
My role, in our photo club, is to oversee the digital photo competitions. We used smugmug.com which had much of the same frustrations I can see the forums would have. Being a web developer, I built my own solution for our photo club's website at: http://www.huntsvillephotographicsociety.org/gallery/november-2013/
(I choose this gallery because i took 1st place :-)
NOTE: This is a closed competition to HPS members only - I'm only showing it as an example of how an on-line competition could work.
It lets members upload images and then locks it down so the judge can do their work, then displays the results in a gallery format.
Contests are a great way to critique and mentor photographers so I don’t think it’s off topic to discuss the integration of a photo contest feature here.
@rockface I noticed the discussions on the site on mentoring and saw my friend on them and requested he mentor me. We communicate off line so everyone doesn't have to see his long remarks to me. I think this is how it works with other. As for the contests ours I think are just informal things started by the members in a lot of cases. We have a wide range on here. People with point and shoots, cell phones, and all kinds of digital cameras. People starting out and professionals. If you want to be critiqued ask and usually people will tell you their opinion.
Thanks @joansmor, mentoring is usually more one-on-one, otherwise it’s more of a workshop. This site has an awesome collection of people who simply enjoy taking pictures. That is a big draw for this site! Your comments of this being “informal” are VERY important. In fact it is what gives 365project.com a lot of its charm and appeal.
Implementing these changes could very easily make the site more complicated and drive people away. I’m VERY new here and I’ve not been a mentor, mentee or even competed in a competition yet.
Anyway, the people here are awesome and I’ve had no problems with how the site works now… I like to think of how to make things better and totally understand my views are often several steps (or years) away from reality… of even for another reality!
@rockface I agree with Cliff. I'm a newbie and already feel overwhelmed by all the links, competitions and conversations I'm missing everyday however, I'm loving every minute of it! I try to stay connected here by being a part of just a few group threads and choosing competitions that suit me best.
I come back because I don't feel judged by more skilled photographers. I'm open to being mentored just not ready for super serious critic.
I agree Cliff that there would be advantages to the mentoring system being aligned to our specific skills or gear. I have a couple of people that asked me for mentoring, and while I am enjoying the process of going a little out of my comfort zone to suggest ideas or improvements, there are a few difficulties with the fact that we don't use the same software, or their EXIF data doesn't show, so I'm often stabbing around in the dark with some things. This is NOT to say it hasn't been enjoyable or worthwhile so far, as it definitely has!
I also agree that some mentoring could focus on particular techniques, but when I think about how that could work my head fills up … maybe it's a can of worms!?
I'm also sure you will find this site to be wonderful, friendly and fairly informal, and that trying to be definitive about what constitutes mentoring as opposed to critique, workshops, etc could be a little irrelevant. Hope you hang around, and would love to know what you think about it all again in a month or so :)
Speaking as a mentor I'm not sure I'd be interested in doing it if it was any more formal than it currently is. I manage to bumble along and my mentees are terrific. One of the nicest things about this site is it's lack of formality. I'd hate to see that go.
I have given you the link to part 3 of the discussion, but you can see the links to the first and second parts on the subject there as well.
Hope this helps.
@swilde I was glad to read your feedback Sue, it is nice to know that although the system is still in its most simple and beginning stages that it is working for you. As mentioned in my last thread, I will come back around Sept and ask everyone again if they want it left as it is or if they would like a more comprehensive system. It will then be up to us all to decide what to do with it...
@aliha Yeah, Alison, the potential for opening up a massive can of worms is definitely there! Hence the roll out on such a simple and basic scale. But on the other hand as Cliff said at the beginning, there is real potential for making it a really exciting tool too. Time will tell.
@swilde I agree with Sue! I would hate to see an end to the informality and open ended nature of 365 .I think that is what makes it such an inspiring and non-intimidating site. I think we all have the same basic goal ,which is to improve our photography and tap into our creativity....but the majority of us are not professionals.We do it because we love it...and its fun!I don't want to kill the fun.
@swilde, @mzzhope I don't think the idea was ever to make a system, so formal it would not be fun. The idea was to only make an it easier to find a mentor who knows a certain kind of hardware or style of shooting. The EXIF data and tags embedded in our images could reveal a lot about our hardware and style of shooting. Using this data to make a kind-of dating service. The other thing which could improve mentoring, is a private messaging system between members. Mentoring is one-on-one thing but we have no way to dialog one-on-one.
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Regardless, this is a good thought. Might be at minimum worth it's own discussion category.
Good input Cliff! Some of the points you mentioned were brought up in the original Mentoring System Thread. The idea behind the initial mentoring process thread was to see if there would be a demand for such a system and the outcome was that yes, it would indeed be welcomed. We then decided to keep it simple to begin with i.e. a list of people willing to be mentors - that wannabe mentees could contact directly to get started. There is quite a lot of work involved in developing and setting up a more comprehensive system, so I wanted to see if the initial positive reaction would continue (or just dwindle out) before taking it to the next level. Recent feedback (last week) has shown that those taking part in the system seem to be enjoying and profiting from it. But having said that, not so many people replied to the last thread requesting feed back to the simple system that is already in place. But it is holiday time for a lot of the members and 365 is definitely a lot less busy during June, July & August. So I left it that I would ask again re demand in September and then depending on the input we get then we could all decide whether we would put in the work to develop the system further. If that turns out to be the case we would probably need to get Ross @scrivna on board with various functions that would support a more comprehensive system.
Would be great to have you on board at that time if it happens!
Linda
I wonder if it would be helpful if 365project could establish "formal" links between members. Maybe mentees would be able to click a "Thanks" button on the mentor's page (which gives them a point). Points could also be given for winning contests or being active in the forms... This recognition system could feed an ongoing award program which honors photographers who go the extra mile. This is a common practice in photo clubs.
The current method works, but user forums are not the best solution for a photo competition. Just seems like a lot of work for whoever has to compile all the images and results.
My role, in our photo club, is to oversee the digital photo competitions. We used smugmug.com which had much of the same frustrations I can see the forums would have. Being a web developer, I built my own solution for our photo club's website at: http://www.huntsvillephotographicsociety.org/gallery/november-2013/
(I choose this gallery because i took 1st place :-)
NOTE: This is a closed competition to HPS members only - I'm only showing it as an example of how an on-line competition could work.
It lets members upload images and then locks it down so the judge can do their work, then displays the results in a gallery format.
Contests are a great way to critique and mentor photographers so I don’t think it’s off topic to discuss the integration of a photo contest feature here.
Implementing these changes could very easily make the site more complicated and drive people away. I’m VERY new here and I’ve not been a mentor, mentee or even competed in a competition yet.
Anyway, the people here are awesome and I’ve had no problems with how the site works now… I like to think of how to make things better and totally understand my views are often several steps (or years) away from reality… of even for another reality!
I come back because I don't feel judged by more skilled photographers. I'm open to being mentored just not ready for super serious critic.
I also agree that some mentoring could focus on particular techniques, but when I think about how that could work my head fills up … maybe it's a can of worms!?
I'm also sure you will find this site to be wonderful, friendly and fairly informal, and that trying to be definitive about what constitutes mentoring as opposed to critique, workshops, etc could be a little irrelevant. Hope you hang around, and would love to know what you think about it all again in a month or so :)
I have given you the link to part 3 of the discussion, but you can see the links to the first and second parts on the subject there as well.
Hope this helps.