I have a trip planned for the end of this month up to the Pilbara and Kimberley region of Western Australia where there is some spectacular scenery with red dirt, blue sky, deep gorges with lots of water holes. Im hoping that I will be able to do it justice and be able to capture a few good shots.
I attended a 1 day landscape photography course yesterday where the trainer has advised that my camera settings should be set on:
Fixed ISO: 200 (this is a low as I can go)
Fixed Aperture: 16
Adjust Shutter Speed to correct exposure
Manual Focus on infinity and just bring it back a little
Tripod used
No remote shutter so put camera on 2 second delay
turned off image stabilisation when camera on tripod
Equipment I use is
Lumix GH4 (Micro Four Thirds - Mirrorless)
12 - 35mm lens (image stabilisation) f2.8 to f22
Just brought a Polarising Lens which I haven't used yet
Editing Software.. Nothing other than iPhoto on my Mac, I pretty much just hit 'auto correct' and let iPhoto do it for me. At this stage I'm not beating myself up about post editing, I'm not a purist, but I really want to try to get the basics right in the camera first, before I challenge myself with editing.
Despite Joining in with the Camera-Savvy Challenges and spending a whole day yesterday shooting landscape shots, I was still disappointed with the focus of all of my shots. I thought they looked ok on live view, but once I got home and uploaded onto the PC, it became apparent that I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing wrong. Is it focus, is the wrong aperture, is it camera shake.
So any help that you lovely 365'ers can throw my way will be much appreciate.
Where do I focus ……. 1/3 in, 2/3 in….. Infinity and just bring it back a bit
What is the best Aperture to set?
Any tips on capturing the rugged beauty of the Kimberly's
How frustrating for you! Can you go somewhere to practice again? I would experiment... Come up w one composition and test out a few different apertures... I would try f/8, f/11 and f/14... Unless you want a sweeping foreground in focus as well as the background, you may find one of those work better for you... Also, for this kind of thing, I would use auto focus... You are far enough away that I am thinking it would generally work fine... If I was going manual, I would NOT do the infinity and back thing... Maybe it's just me, but that has never been a successful strategy for me...
Anyway - I am by no means an expert on landscapes, but maybe one of those suggestions will help... And hopefully someone else will come along w some even better ideas...
@northy
Its a cloudy day here today, so I think I'll take your advise and try out the different apertures on the one scene and ditch the infinity and back thing and go back to auto. Fingers crossed.
Sorry, but I disagree with almost everything your trainer said. He's making things too hard/different for you, especially focus. Trust the camera in this one. The AF system of the GH4 is excellent.
f/16 on your standard "kit lens?" I think that is somewhat too narrow, the lens is well beyond its "sweet spot" and diffraction around the small aperture (you can google those if you haven't heard of the concepts before) will doubtless contribute to some "softness" in the image.
Put the camera on "A," fix an aperture about f/8, f/11 but no more if you feel you don't get enough DoF, and rely on the meter in your excellent GH4 to set the speed for a proper exposure. One thing to remember about exposure, if your shot has strong shadows as well as strong highlights (gorges will do this to you) you might want to try the camera's built in HDR. A single shot will not do you justice; no camera can do it as well as your own eye and brain. It's on the third page of the Rec menu. You could also try the "i.Dynamic" compensation (Page 2 of the Rec menu) to lighten the shadows and stop the highlights clipping. I saw a review in DPReview that suggests engaging "low" rather than "standard" gave best results, but I have no personal experience here.
I personally would use the autofocus and pick where you want the center of the DoF to be. Focusing at infinity is a sure way to muck it all up. Manual focus on infinity has unfortunate side effects if you "focus beyond infinity," a sure way to add even more softness. Judging "bringing it back a little from infinity" seems a strange way to proceed, for me anyway. How much is "a little?" One excellent thing about your camera is the viewfinder is electronic, picking up the display right off the sensor, so you can see the DoF even before you shoot.
A tripod is OK if you want to take time to set up and tear down for every single shot you take and to lug it around in between, but hand holding and relying on the image stabilization will work just fine at any length of your lens. Just make sure you have a firm (not agonizingly tight!) grip of the camera, keep your left hand completely under the lens and your elbows close to your sides and you should have no trouble. If you go for "night" or "low light" landscapes, then of course the tripod, but for well lit day time, not necessary unless you get out beyond 100 telephoto on your camera, despite what the "experts" and pundits say...
Don't sweat the native ISO 200 of your camera. It's just fine.
You are going to have fun, so please don't overly sweat the photography details, that will just spoil the experience. Trust the camera and its technology summarizes most of what I said above.
Have a great time, and we are looking forward to seeing what you bring back. Good Luck!
@deborah63 hi Debbie...cant offer advice as im sort of a person who points and shoot using landscape mode. Just follow your instint...you will do fine. Lucky you that you are travelling north of Western Australia. I have been travelling Australia since 2009 just completed the eastern states. Hopefully be in Western Aust in 2 years time...doing the Flinder Rangers in Sa next year . I will follow you to see your brilliant photos.
I agree with Frank. I would encourage using the cicular polarizer. Landscapes are not always wide as possible, don't be afraid to abstarct some of the landscape. Don't include a lot of sky, it distracts from the main subject. Don't miss seeing the trees because of the forest.
thank you Frank and John that is just what I needed to hear. I've been taking so much on board lately and then to get conflicting info from an 'expert, really threw me....
I went out again today by myself and just practiced on the same scene using auto focus, Aperture mode shooting around f/8, hand held with image stabiliser on and got infinitely sharper results... I wonder if I can ask for a refund from the course yesterday!!
If not already stated it's always good to shoot in portrait and do a pano so you're not limiting yourself to the 'landscape' mode. BTW you'll get distortion shooing at 12mm so you need to overlap the frames to assist with the straightening process.
Don't forget the bigger the aperture number the less light but more in focus the scene will be - thus you'll need the tripod on those clarity shots.
Also work out your metering. Evaluative or spot? Which you may want to do the bracket shots to ensure the shadows and highlights are given enough light or stopped down.
@sidecar Thanks so much for info. I've just looked at the shots on the link and they are absolutely amazing. I would be ecstatic if I could nail just a handful of these.
@deborah63 I would have to agree with @northy and @frankhymus, especially on AF, tripod use and aperture. Glad you have been having fun with our Camerasavvy challenges btw :)
Yes, I was surprised at the f/16 recommendation - I too would hang around the f/8-11 mark for most landscape work. The only time I venture much further than this (these days, with experience!) is if I'm after a really long exposure and I need to really limit the light coming in.
Also on the AF vs manual ... yes, I did a workshop last year with a very decorated landscape photographer, and her advice was to always use a tripod, turn the IS off, manual focus using live view (not infinity and slightly back ... I've never heard that one before!). Now technically, she may be on the money, but you want to enjoy your trip too and like Frank says, if you don't want to be lugging a tripod around constantly and spending the time setting the thing up every time you want to take a shot (who are you travelling with and how patient are they???) ... the Autofocus will do just fine, and possibly better in some cases, especially proportionate to the amount of time and effort!
I would probably still take a tripod along, but perhaps only use it for low-light - sunrises and sunsets etc.
And of course more importantly, have a fabulous trip! I've never set foot in NT or WA and they are definitely on my list ... so I am keen to see what you come back with!
@aliha Thank you so much for your feedback. With all of the advice that I've received today, I'm feeling a lot less stressed. I got out with the camera today and just focussed on the one scene and found that you are all spot on the money. I was able to get a very clear shot, hand held between f/8-11 using my auto focus.
@deborah63 Great! Have a super time. Another "plus" for your camera is the fact that it is mirrorless, so the jarring of the mirror slapping up, as on a DSLR, is absent, another reason hand-holding will be even more effective for you.
Hey Debbie... just wanted to add a couple more points... first is you should test out how low you can go in terms of handheld shutter speed... that way, you know that you will have to make some adjustments if the camera is choosing a shutter speed that is lower than you are confident about... if that happens, you can, of course, widen the aperture (smaller f stop number), or increase ISO... you could probably still get decent shots with ISO 400 and possibly even 800 (again, something you might want to test out)...
also, if you will be hiking long distances to get from one view to another, think about what camera bag you'll want and whether you'll want a cross-body camera strap...
sounds like you've got a great trip planned - have fun!
@northy@deborah63 You should be able to shoot comfortably hand held at 1/50 of a second I'd say. Faster if possible is good, naturally. The "rule of thumb" is 1/(full-frame-equivalent-focal-length), and with your GH4, a micro-four-thirds size sensor that is about 1/(35x2) = 1/70 second at the longest length of the lens. "About" because it's a little difficult to apples-and-apples the comparison since your picture aspect is 4x3 and a 35mm camera is 3x2.
That doesn't account for 2 stops of Image Stabilization. If you just watch your shooting stance (like I said above) and exhale just before you press the shutter, you should be able to do even better. It's often possible to find something solid to lean against, and that helps no end.
(Side thought. I went shooting with several 'advanced' photographers today from camera club, and I was quite surprised to see that they both have *terrible* shooting stances. Especially with the left hand grabbing the left edge of the camera, not supporting the lens completely in the cradle of the hand. I didn't say a word of course, but there you are.)
I would imagine you would be shooting with something closer to 15-20mm for large vistas, that's a "standard" angle of view from a 30-40mm lens on a full frame camera, so I bet you can go significantly slower. 1/20 second? But test yourself out of course. It's fun to see how slow you can go, and what happens when you get a good result, and when it looks blurry. All due to body and hand shake of course. Like I said, you don't have the problem of mirror-shock that DSLRs do.
The cross-body strap is an excellent idea. Fortunately your GH4 is lighter than many DSLRs, even entry level, especially with a lens attached. As you might be able to tell, I have a fondness for the GH4. http://365project.org/frankhymus/365/2014-10-12
@frankhymus@northy
Thanks so much for your valued advise once again.
I feel pretty confident that camera shake is not a problem until I get down around 1/50 and I have managed to get a little lower when I've rested against a pole. I'm pretty sure they'll be plenty if rocks that ill be able to enlist the aid of.
I've given a huge amount of thought to a bag. I've had one of the sling bags for some time, and although they are great for ease of accessibility to camera, it's not so good for hiking, no room for food or water, plus it swings around the body when climbing ( learnt that the hard way, nearly lost my balance up a particularly steep rock).
I've opted for a really light weight backpack that has a bottom section to securely keep camera and a spare lens, which has a rear zipper for access. Front section for filters, torches...There's a top section for food and pockets on the side for water. I can even strap my tripod on, if needed. .... And a waterproof cover if weather get dodgy. It's an amazing little bag, probably wouldn't suite a bigger DSLR, but perfect for mine.
I agree with everything Frank et al have said above.
Plus, just to add my 2 cents, one of the biggest factors of landscape photography that is very undervalued is quality of light.
Now, your plans each day won't always allow for this, but the very best landscape shots are always taken in the hour or so around sunrise and sunset. I'm not talking about getting the colours of the sun (although that's always great) - it's the angle of the light on the landscape that makes these times so very special.
If your itinerary allows, for those very special places, capturing them at the start or finish of the day will make a big difference.
However, don't let that put you off photos at other times of day of course. After all, you are after photos to remind you of the trip[ presumably, not to sell for billboards! And you will still get great shots throughout the day.
This is actually one of the few things I don't like about 365. The pressure I put on myself to get a shot each day means that I simply don't get many during those magic hours, and I do believe the quality of my shots suffers from that. But, that is all on me!
Two things. My sister has been up that way house sitting for weeks twice in the last couple of years. Be prepared for the place to get under your skin. She loved it, did mail runs to Meekatharra and more. She has some fantastic photos just using a point and shoot. She said the landscape speaks for itself and you can hardly go wrong.
Secondly, an across the boy strap. Brilliant idea. I have arthritis in many joints which flares. The around the neck straps hurt. I bought a Sunsniper strap which was not cheap but is extra comfortable and easy to fit. Added bonus is the metal thread running through the strap which makes if very difficult to cut through. Probably not an issue where you are going but definitely is in other places.
I cannot now remember the name of vendor, but do a search. I bought mine online with great service from a place in St Leonards or close there, in Sydney.
@northy I'll give you details of bag when I get home next week. I flew into work today, and for the life of me, I can't remember what brand it is... I do know its not a Lowepro.
One more thing I will add to all of the excellent advice you've received above. I've done a few "once in a lifetime" vacations in the last cpl of years and enjoyed taking lots of landscape shots. One of my personal rules of thumb is this. Even with a decent camera (Canon 6D) with terrific lens and Image Stabilization, I hold the shutter button and take at least two shots of everything. This allows for my handshake on the first one. Sometimes, the first one is better; sometimes, the second (or even third given the burst rate on my camera) is better.
Digital allows me to dump all but the best or take advantage of bracketing to sharpen details and deepen colors. The only time I've regretted my decision to overshoot is when I have to cull the herd once I'm home!
Enjoy your trip. Looking forward to seeing your shots!
@deborah63 Thank you for starting this thread! I'm going to Japan and Bali in June and I'm lugging all camera equipment! I've been going around town trying to visualize the scenery, street shots, landscapes (my serious weakness), and trying to note some advance settings. I've found my sweet spot aperture to be f/8 and f/11 with an ISO at 800 if I'm not in full light.
Re bags, I opted for the Lowepro 20L AW Flipside. I walk at least two miles every day with it loaded to get accustomed to the weight (which will be max 15 pounds if I carry it all--not doing that more than two days).
Have a great time. Sounds like you have a great bag, and I think that makes all the difference! Can't wait to see the results.
@Daryl thanks for info.
I still have a lot to learn, but all of the advise I've received from this thread has been invaluable. I can't wait to start my trip now.
Japan will be amazing for you.
@deborah63 I'm late to the party with this but how did the trip go? I'd be interesting to hav ea recap - what pieces of advice worked for you? what didnt?
@darylo interestingly enough, I went on a landscape coure run by some very experienced people who suggested that on my camera, ISO800 or ISO1600 wasnt a problem and at the time agreed with them when I saw the images on my camera. I've recently been following an amazing landscape photographer's work and can absolutely tell you that ISO800 and even ISO400 is way too high it comes time to edit. The images that I was happy with previously at a higher ISO, i'm no longer happy with when trying to edit it and boost everything i can from the image
Write a Reply
Sign up for a free account or Sign in to post a comment.
Tweets ahoy!
Join the Group
Pin With Me
Anyway - I am by no means an expert on landscapes, but maybe one of those suggestions will help... And hopefully someone else will come along w some even better ideas...
Its a cloudy day here today, so I think I'll take your advise and try out the different apertures on the one scene and ditch the infinity and back thing and go back to auto. Fingers crossed.
f/16 on your standard "kit lens?" I think that is somewhat too narrow, the lens is well beyond its "sweet spot" and diffraction around the small aperture (you can google those if you haven't heard of the concepts before) will doubtless contribute to some "softness" in the image.
Put the camera on "A," fix an aperture about f/8, f/11 but no more if you feel you don't get enough DoF, and rely on the meter in your excellent GH4 to set the speed for a proper exposure. One thing to remember about exposure, if your shot has strong shadows as well as strong highlights (gorges will do this to you) you might want to try the camera's built in HDR. A single shot will not do you justice; no camera can do it as well as your own eye and brain. It's on the third page of the Rec menu. You could also try the "i.Dynamic" compensation (Page 2 of the Rec menu) to lighten the shadows and stop the highlights clipping. I saw a review in DPReview that suggests engaging "low" rather than "standard" gave best results, but I have no personal experience here.
I personally would use the autofocus and pick where you want the center of the DoF to be. Focusing at infinity is a sure way to muck it all up. Manual focus on infinity has unfortunate side effects if you "focus beyond infinity," a sure way to add even more softness. Judging "bringing it back a little from infinity" seems a strange way to proceed, for me anyway. How much is "a little?" One excellent thing about your camera is the viewfinder is electronic, picking up the display right off the sensor, so you can see the DoF even before you shoot.
A tripod is OK if you want to take time to set up and tear down for every single shot you take and to lug it around in between, but hand holding and relying on the image stabilization will work just fine at any length of your lens. Just make sure you have a firm (not agonizingly tight!) grip of the camera, keep your left hand completely under the lens and your elbows close to your sides and you should have no trouble. If you go for "night" or "low light" landscapes, then of course the tripod, but for well lit day time, not necessary unless you get out beyond 100 telephoto on your camera, despite what the "experts" and pundits say...
Don't sweat the native ISO 200 of your camera. It's just fine.
You are going to have fun, so please don't overly sweat the photography details, that will just spoil the experience. Trust the camera and its technology summarizes most of what I said above.
Have a great time, and we are looking forward to seeing what you bring back. Good Luck!
I went out again today by myself and just practiced on the same scene using auto focus, Aperture mode shooting around f/8, hand held with image stabiliser on and got infinitely sharper results... I wonder if I can ask for a refund from the course yesterday!!
@chapjohn @frankhymus
Defo a polariser but perhaps a ND filter - perhaps pick up the Cokin range to assist with the glare in the mornings and evenings.( http://www.digidirect.com.au/accessories/filters/cokin/cokin_h250_p_series_graduated_neutral_density_filter_kit) you can get cheaper ones on ebay
Check out http://www.kimberleystockphotos.com.au/archive for ideas of how to shoot a specific location you're heading to.
Don't forget the bigger the aperture number the less light but more in focus the scene will be - thus you'll need the tripod on those clarity shots.
Also work out your metering. Evaluative or spot? Which you may want to do the bracket shots to ensure the shadows and highlights are given enough light or stopped down.
Yes, I was surprised at the f/16 recommendation - I too would hang around the f/8-11 mark for most landscape work. The only time I venture much further than this (these days, with experience!) is if I'm after a really long exposure and I need to really limit the light coming in.
Also on the AF vs manual ... yes, I did a workshop last year with a very decorated landscape photographer, and her advice was to always use a tripod, turn the IS off, manual focus using live view (not infinity and slightly back ... I've never heard that one before!). Now technically, she may be on the money, but you want to enjoy your trip too and like Frank says, if you don't want to be lugging a tripod around constantly and spending the time setting the thing up every time you want to take a shot (who are you travelling with and how patient are they???) ... the Autofocus will do just fine, and possibly better in some cases, especially proportionate to the amount of time and effort!
I would probably still take a tripod along, but perhaps only use it for low-light - sunrises and sunsets etc.
And of course more importantly, have a fabulous trip! I've never set foot in NT or WA and they are definitely on my list ... so I am keen to see what you come back with!
also, if you will be hiking long distances to get from one view to another, think about what camera bag you'll want and whether you'll want a cross-body camera strap...
sounds like you've got a great trip planned - have fun!
That doesn't account for 2 stops of Image Stabilization. If you just watch your shooting stance (like I said above) and exhale just before you press the shutter, you should be able to do even better. It's often possible to find something solid to lean against, and that helps no end.
(Side thought. I went shooting with several 'advanced' photographers today from camera club, and I was quite surprised to see that they both have *terrible* shooting stances. Especially with the left hand grabbing the left edge of the camera, not supporting the lens completely in the cradle of the hand. I didn't say a word of course, but there you are.)
I would imagine you would be shooting with something closer to 15-20mm for large vistas, that's a "standard" angle of view from a 30-40mm lens on a full frame camera, so I bet you can go significantly slower. 1/20 second? But test yourself out of course. It's fun to see how slow you can go, and what happens when you get a good result, and when it looks blurry. All due to body and hand shake of course. Like I said, you don't have the problem of mirror-shock that DSLRs do.
The cross-body strap is an excellent idea. Fortunately your GH4 is lighter than many DSLRs, even entry level, especially with a lens attached. As you might be able to tell, I have a fondness for the GH4. http://365project.org/frankhymus/365/2014-10-12
Thanks so much for your valued advise once again.
I feel pretty confident that camera shake is not a problem until I get down around 1/50 and I have managed to get a little lower when I've rested against a pole. I'm pretty sure they'll be plenty if rocks that ill be able to enlist the aid of.
I've given a huge amount of thought to a bag. I've had one of the sling bags for some time, and although they are great for ease of accessibility to camera, it's not so good for hiking, no room for food or water, plus it swings around the body when climbing ( learnt that the hard way, nearly lost my balance up a particularly steep rock).
I've opted for a really light weight backpack that has a bottom section to securely keep camera and a spare lens, which has a rear zipper for access. Front section for filters, torches...There's a top section for food and pockets on the side for water. I can even strap my tripod on, if needed. .... And a waterproof cover if weather get dodgy. It's an amazing little bag, probably wouldn't suite a bigger DSLR, but perfect for mine.
Plus, just to add my 2 cents, one of the biggest factors of landscape photography that is very undervalued is quality of light.
Now, your plans each day won't always allow for this, but the very best landscape shots are always taken in the hour or so around sunrise and sunset. I'm not talking about getting the colours of the sun (although that's always great) - it's the angle of the light on the landscape that makes these times so very special.
If your itinerary allows, for those very special places, capturing them at the start or finish of the day will make a big difference.
However, don't let that put you off photos at other times of day of course. After all, you are after photos to remind you of the trip[ presumably, not to sell for billboards! And you will still get great shots throughout the day.
This is actually one of the few things I don't like about 365. The pressure I put on myself to get a shot each day means that I simply don't get many during those magic hours, and I do believe the quality of my shots suffers from that. But, that is all on me!
Whatever you do, have fun!
Secondly, an across the boy strap. Brilliant idea. I have arthritis in many joints which flares. The around the neck straps hurt. I bought a Sunsniper strap which was not cheap but is extra comfortable and easy to fit. Added bonus is the metal thread running through the strap which makes if very difficult to cut through. Probably not an issue where you are going but definitely is in other places.
I cannot now remember the name of vendor, but do a search. I bought mine online with great service from a place in St Leonards or close there, in Sydney.
Digital allows me to dump all but the best or take advantage of bracketing to sharpen details and deepen colors. The only time I've regretted my decision to overshoot is when I have to cull the herd once I'm home!
Enjoy your trip. Looking forward to seeing your shots!
Re bags, I opted for the Lowepro 20L AW Flipside. I walk at least two miles every day with it loaded to get accustomed to the weight (which will be max 15 pounds if I carry it all--not doing that more than two days).
Have a great time. Sounds like you have a great bag, and I think that makes all the difference! Can't wait to see the results.
Thanks JT I hadn't thought to use the burst mode to capture a couple of shots. I definitely take that advise.
I still have a lot to learn, but all of the advise I've received from this thread has been invaluable. I can't wait to start my trip now.
Japan will be amazing for you.
@darylo interestingly enough, I went on a landscape coure run by some very experienced people who suggested that on my camera, ISO800 or ISO1600 wasnt a problem and at the time agreed with them when I saw the images on my camera. I've recently been following an amazing landscape photographer's work and can absolutely tell you that ISO800 and even ISO400 is way too high it comes time to edit. The images that I was happy with previously at a higher ISO, i'm no longer happy with when trying to edit it and boost everything i can from the image