A quick please to all newbies

January 7th, 2012
you may find alot of the questions you have will have already been covered in the forums at some point some of which have been covered again and again and do after a while tend to get very repetative, so please before you post a discusion do a search first to make sure there are not a dozen similar posts to the one you are about to post thanks :)

update:
this post is not here to bash newbies the reason I put newbies in the title is because the topics in question will be new to them where as those that have been here for some time have already seen these questions posted many times and have responded to them often repeatedly. repeated questions tend to smother questions that may be benificial to everyone new and old alike and it is for this reason and this reason alone that I posted this topic.
January 7th, 2012
Lol, the discussion boards do seem to be inundated with newbie posts. I didn’t notice that last year since I was one of them. I’m wondering how many times I did this very thing in the beginning.
January 7th, 2012
@grecican giggle
January 7th, 2012
January 7th, 2012
Ah, I think you may be talking to me, Lee. I never even thought of searching (but I will next time) and thanks for all the links, I will definitely look them up.
January 7th, 2012
Arh the cycle of a on-line forum. The same questions asked over and over again, just by a new generation.
January 7th, 2012
@asrai @lisjam1 - I was thinking the same thing...When I was knew, I didn't even realize there were these discussions going! Silly me. I was just so intent on what I was doing.
January 7th, 2012
@asrai This.

@grecican LOLz!!
January 7th, 2012
@beautifulthing Also please do not talk like a sailor as the internets is a safe and nice place :P Though you can talk like a pirate as I like pirates ;)
January 7th, 2012
But what camera should I buy?
January 7th, 2012
@jinximages Hehehe that one model... It has focus, flash, tripod mount.....
January 7th, 2012
@jenirainbow believe me you are not the only one :D I am sure next year the same questions will pop up again and again as they always do
January 7th, 2012
January 7th, 2012
@jinximages the one that makes the best shutter sound ;D
January 7th, 2012
Thanks, we lost the Favorite Fav and new WWYD in less than 90 minutes yesterday.
January 7th, 2012
Ems
Or perhaps ask someone who's commented on one of your pics as it helps to build relationships and you can get to know people.....as well as search the discussion boards too of course!
January 7th, 2012
@grecican ahhh sweet link:)
January 7th, 2012
@jasehoad I has a potty mouth. Someone should punish me.
January 7th, 2012
Also if you post a photo on your project people can comment on it there that is what normally happens you don't have to post a thread asking for people to look at - or maybe that's just how I understand how it works :oD
January 7th, 2012
@beautifulthing Someone really should ;)
January 8th, 2012
@jinximages what do you want it to do? [g]
January 8th, 2012
@moirab WORD.
January 8th, 2012
@brumbe It did come back! :oD Yay!
January 8th, 2012
@asrai But Lee... what if none of those discussions are asking people to follow ME?
:-p

I kind of feel mean as I was new too this time last year but I seem to recall feeling too shy to start a discussion for the first few months and jumped for joy when I got my first follower/comment and didn't feel the need to go and beg people to love me
January 8th, 2012
Amen to that.
January 8th, 2012
Oh pooh. I thought this was a nice place to be. However, from the tone of some of the posts on this particular thread, now I sort of feel, I dunno, humiliated? Put down? Everyone was new here once. I'm sure you all asked questions that had already been asked. Anyway, I can post 365 on my own journal without feeling that I've tread upon toes, or being made to feel like I'm an idiot. :(
January 8th, 2012
@jennakayfrancis Kinda feel the same way you do! Everyone is new at some point and I've always said there is never a dumb question! EVEN if it's been asked before. The more experienced folks here can ignore repetitive questions, but please don't humiliate the "newbies" and this thread is doing just that. Shy I'm not ... and I sure don't mind starting a new thread ... but I'm here to LEARN, ask questions, and make friends. Maybe, I too, am at the wrong place :/
January 8th, 2012
geeze a forum is for questions, ask away newbies.
January 8th, 2012
@jennakayfrancis @chard @mematoriley I am not saying that it is wrong to ask questions and I am sorry if it came across like that what I am saying is that some questions that have been asked have already been answered time and time again and in not searching to see if a question has you end up with forums filled with the same question the reason I posted this as directed to the newbies is because they may be as yet unaware of the recurrence of certain questions not because of any slight on being new
January 8th, 2012
As a newbie who has posted questions probably asked....its a huge learning curve on here. So I just appreciate those who respond...those who offer advice...and those whose photos I admire.
January 8th, 2012
and don't request follows and critiques here, please - soon enough you'll earn them; and please don't tell me how uninspired you are on day fewer than 150
January 8th, 2012
@jennakayfrancis @mematoriley Don't feel bad you guys. If there is any kind of tone or snarkiness here it's directed at on one personally, just the situation. I totally understand the desire to dive in and ask questions etc. One problem with so many repeated questions though is that threads like Browse and Pick, Favorite Fav, Theme Competition stuff gets buried. Participating in those discussions is a much more effective way to meet new people and get feedback on your photos. Right now you can't easily find those threads because there are so many individual people saying hi, look at me, what camera should I buy, is this good? You'll be annoyed with it soon enough!
January 8th, 2012
@jennakayfrancis I completely agree, I asked a question about going to Yosemite during the winter and instantly was blasted with 2 rude answers. The next morning the post was gone, like it never happened. It made me want to stop posting for awhile. To the OP, the search function is not the best, I could not find 1 single POST for my camera (Sony DSC-H9) since I joined and I just typed the exact word in a thread yesterday. For that reason, I basically post my project for a few new friends here, but that is it. I am not a photography expert and we all were new to a forum at one point.
January 8th, 2012
@billbetten again the post has been taken out of context I have nothing against anyone posting any question or comment they like but like @moonpig says there are some questions that are posted a great deal they are usually things like "what camera should I buy" ,"what editing software do you use", "does anyone know anywhere that prints books of your photos" e.t.c. there wouldn't be a problem if these topics occured once or twice a year but some of them crop up in a new thread once a month after 12 months of hearing the same questions they tend to loose any value and the questions that do are buried so fast that some are not seen at all so I am not anti newbie if you have a question feel free to ask all I ask is that people make sure there are not 60 similar posts all saying the same thing
January 8th, 2012
@asrai Thanks for the reply . This is a great group of people here, I am very familiar with forum software, it is hard to find answers sometimes, lol.
January 8th, 2012
I'm a newbie too and I already found it daunting to post comments or questions before reading this thread, but here goes..... Excuse my ignorance but can the more experienced 365ers not just skip reading the threads that concern topics that they have already dealt with before?
January 8th, 2012
@lanina I don't think it's that that's the issue. I think it's because new posts come in at the top of the list for discussions/comps/themes etc and that pushes those right down the ladder and they get lost.

It's not that they're saying don't ask questions, just please check if the questions been asked to death before. I know when I post a topic, a box comes up saying STOP has this been asked before (words may be paraphrased.) Of course there are some questions that aren't covered but what is being said that there are some questions that are asked over and over again...ie-where can I get my 365 printed a search would show it's been asked and there would be an answer in there somewhere.

The silverbacks (yep I'm being rude ) probably aren't even reading the posts that frustrate them, but they are seeing the boards being covered and lost in them..if that makes any sense?
January 8th, 2012
What does it mean if when you click on someone and you cannot bring them up? If it means what I think it means then this thread has caused one person to quit 365. May not have been the intention of the thread but really?
January 8th, 2012
@billbetten a while ago there was a thread about photo's we're bored of seeing. I stopped posting for quite a while after that, it took me even longer to come back and look at the discussion section.....don't let it get under your skin. I understand the op's point but there is a way of going back through the pages and searching for themes,comps etc if they want them too.
January 8th, 2012
@voodoochild. Yep jennakay disappeared. We both started at the same time'ish and I was following her...shes appparently gone.
January 8th, 2012
Oh my goodness. I was going to post the same thing Lee. I always search a discussion topic before I post (try to at least). It's not hard and it is easy to use, quite honestly. I think if someone quits based on this post they were not meant to be here at all. There was NOTHING wrong with what Lee wrote and in fact he's right to post it. I don't understand why people want to post a question that's already been answered. Get the answer and then when something comes up that hasn't been answered in the 3+ years this forum has been open you'll ask and people will answer you (and be even more likely to answer you because you haven't posted several questions that feel like repeats). I am REALLY not trying to be nasty or rude but the fact is Lee's post was not even near to rude and people started bashing him on it. I don't let one thing on here bug me that badly. There are so, so, so many wonderful teachers on here and so supportive. Let's remember that.
January 8th, 2012
@voodoochild @voodoochild wow, that sucks, . I am new to photography, but a veteran on internet forums. I own two websites with forums, but I paid for software (vBulletin ) that is the industry standard. NOBODY likes to made stupid by asking a question, i know that was not what intent here. When I have asked 2-3 times about making improvements to the software, members (ACE) have been here awhile say "this is a free site". it is, BUT you can pay Just $19.99 - 5¢ a day!. I Once you start charging for a level of membership (which I personally wont do) it puts a different coat of paint on things.I appreciate what Ross has done here, trust me. The bottom line is this, if the admin/smods/would please listen to some constructive input on HOW TO IMPROVE THIS FORUM, instead of making rude comments/locking threads, stuff like this may not happen. The issue is the software, you cannot easily find answers to commonly asked questions or communicate with other members. I am drinking my morning coffee and really am sad that jennakay has left. To anyone who left a negative post here, take a look in the mirror. That could of been YOUR mom/daughter/sister/friend. If they have left because of what your input was, I don't think it would be so funny then. If you are tired of seeing a question asked, DON'sT READ THE POST! Please be part of fixing the problem, not helping to create even a bigger one. This thread has truly left a day taste in my mouth :(
January 8th, 2012
I think something that might be helpful to all the new people, like myself, would be a list of guidelines for using the forum and those upspoken rules it sometimes takes you while to figure out. Generally forums have a tagged post that stays at the top that gives you that kind of advice, but this one doesn't. And when I'm new somewhere, I always read that post to help figure things out.

Also, I would love to see the Themes/Challenges separated or the challenges highlighted a little more obviously. But that is my personal opinion and others might absolutely hate it.

I might be a little thicker skinned than most, but I didin't find the thread that snarky (possibly some of the tongue-in-cheek humor might have been misinterpreted), but then I didn't see how anyone was bashing Lee either.

I actually picked up a few things from some of the comments. Any other advice would be appreciated.
January 8th, 2012
@billbetten if a question is hard to find then it is not one of the questions I am talking about as I said the questions I am talking about are the ones that are extremely easy to find because they are posted so very often this thread was not intended to bash anyone just to try and make the questions and the forums as interesting and educational to everyone as possible
January 8th, 2012
@lanina the issue is not with the type of questions put down but the saturation of the same questions, when there are some days when you dont get to see a new question because the boards are full of questions that have already been asked on countless occassions it makes them difficult to skip
January 8th, 2012
@terek55 Thank you, I have read and re read my initial post to see how it could have been taken so out of context and I must say I am having real trouble seeing it. the only thing I can see that could be a problem is the word newbie in the title I wonder if I would have got the same response if it was titled to everyone, guess thats the problem with written media.
January 8th, 2012
I can see how it would be irritating. But that's how new people learn. I'm new here. Although I'm not new to photography forums.

So if anyone ever has any questions, feel free to come ask me. i will help anyone out, just as I have been helped in the past by others.

I'm happy to pay it forward.
January 8th, 2012
@jenp the problem is that the more times a question is posted the less people answer the question especially if it is a question that is asked every couple of weeks so what you end up with is a board full of the same question with less and less answers while new questions that may teach something significant and new are lost sometimes over the space of 10 minutes that is the issue I am trying to put across I have never said that people shouldn't ask questions and I am quite literally amazed that people have taken this post to mean that, I would always be amongst the first to answer if I can I just ask everyone to check and see that the question has not been answered to saturation point
January 8th, 2012
Thanks, Lee @asrai, for starting this thread although I think it's probably coming to its end, which is unfortunate for me in posting my comment. And thanks, Paula Brumbe @brumbe, Reba @reba, mudge @moonpig, genevieve @voodoochild, Terry Beigie @terek55, and others, for your input.

To some of the newbies who've posted here and to those who are only reading, I'm not sure you're getting Lee's point. I encourage you, please, go back and read or re-read comments made by the people I've addressed above. I included their names so they might be easier to find. They are telling you WHY myriad questions of the same ilk are unnecessary to be asked here and now and HOW you can find answers to your questions, some the very questions that have been asked time and again. Please take their advice.

And I'm very sure that many newbies who are reading only and not weighing in are doing just that. So I, for one, appreciate that.

When I was a newbie last June, I, a veteran forum poster, had difficulty finding my way around 365's discussion board and was very frustrated because it is different than anything I'd been accustomed to, but with time and patience, I learned to navigate it. Follow the steps posted by others on this thread to search answers to your questions before you jump right in with yours.

Be patient. You don't have to know everything all at once. Follow those whose photos you find inspiring. Comment on them. Ask in a comment, "How did you do that?" I remember the first time I was asked how I did something. I was honored to be asked the question and thrilled to answer it. We, or most of us, are here to learn, but that takes time. I urge you to slow down and smell the roses, or, in our case, view the photos.

All of us were newbies, and very few were/are expert photographers to begin with. One of the many wonderful things about 365 is that you are surrounded by very encouraging friends who have grown over the course of their projects and usually are more than willing to lend their support.

Newbies, welcome to 365, good luck with your projects, and enjoy the ride! :)
January 8th, 2012
@mebswartz exactly, many thanks :)
January 8th, 2012
@asrai You're welcome. :)
January 9th, 2012
As a newbie, I didn't find the original post offensive, even if some people did (because they took it out of context). I myself hate it when I have to wade through gazillions of similar questions with infinite answers (The famous: which camera cited before, for example). For me it's simply good forum etiquette to do a search on a topic and only repeat it if I feel my issue is different enough to warrant a new thread.

However, I must say I found some of the responses here from people extremely rude and not welcoming. Perhaps this thread is not a place for sarcasm to vent your frustrations with topic repetition, if you want newbies to take this advice to heart. It's certainly made me think of whether I want to be part of a community where people appear condescending just because they've been around longer than I am, when clearly some people have already showed that it bothers them. That has nothing to do with touchy feelings or weak egos who aren't supposed to be part of this community anyway as it has been suggested, it's more a thing of, well, you know, common courtesy. You can say things without irony, sarcasm and arrogance, especially in a written form, where it's often hard to discern the true meaning of what one is saying. It will make people more receptive to what you have to say. There's a time and place for everything. One person left over this ridiculous misunderstanding - I am scared to read other threads on this forum.
January 9th, 2012
Nothing offensive about your post. And some of our more spirited 365'ers have a bit of a bite to their humor. I think if more people would take a five minute breather when they get ticked off at a post...and then come back to it...they'll fine that it really isn't worth the argument. That's what I do when I get offended. I back off for a minute, and realize it's not worth losing my cool over. This has only happened a couple of times to me here, and I'm glad I bit my tongue...I mean fingers.
January 9th, 2012
Hi, I'm new, but as others have said, am not new to forums so understand the 'etiquette'. I found this really helpful: http://365project.org/discuss/general/9968/getting-started-guide-for-new-users
Perhaps as someone else suggested, it could be put at the top of the discussion boards so it's easy to find?
Jen
January 9th, 2012
@cavemonster Thanks for that link, I think it's the best, the most usefull guide to 365 ever!
January 9th, 2012
@terek55 I don't think the real issue was actually with the first post- that one is fair enough. It was lots of people jumping up and down and going oh yeah and it sucks when people do this, and this is just soooooo annoying when they do that and basically making it feel like it's only for established people who have been here and know their way around the boards.

Makes the new people feel really unwelcome. I do not think there was much wrong with the initial post as I said, just rag,tag and bobtail that followed on his shirt tails.
January 9th, 2012
@aj1268 shouldn't that work both ways? newbies and greybacks? TBH, I'd have thought it should be more greybacks thinking aargh and not posting sarcy comments. As I said previously I think there is little wrong with @asrai's post. I think it's something that could probably do with being stickied on all forums.
What was wrong was a number of oldtimers joining in the chase. That lacked finesse.
January 9th, 2012
Kaz
I'll always try and look back through previous posts, but sometimes just because a question has been asked before, it doesn't mean the answer will still be relevant. Technology changes, both with cameras and software used to process shots. Sometimes 'old technology' may give interesting images/results and as such gets regularly revisited - Pinhole cameras spring to mind here.
Just because its not new to YOU, doesn't mean it's not new (or exciting) to ME. I was previously berated on another site for producing a long exposure shots whilst spinning my camera in a darkened room which had a good number of coloured LED's lit up in it. It was a new technique to me but clearly not to several contributors. I was even castigated for being 'reckless' with MY camera!!!

I'm sure Archimedes, Einstein, Newton etc asked the same question over and over again before the answers made sense to them ;)

Kaz
January 9th, 2012
@asrai Grayback...LOL
January 9th, 2012
another suggestion in general is google. one can find a great many articles and information about a subject - the little numbers on a lens, dial settings, users manual for a camera that can often be read to get a better understanding of the operation of the camera, etc. also more advanced topics can be found there, off camera flash, remote triggering, and much more. sometimes if a question is ask followed by i have tried this or that, and still confused or having issues, there may be more of a chance of getting an answer, because it is known that those things have been tried. i am just using the above things as a general suggestion for searching on, not meant to upset anyone if those have been ask recently. there have been a few topics i have seen that i know answers are in the manual that came with the camera, making it a good place to start as well.

I'm not saying 'don't ask questions. I agree with Lee, searching the posts is a good start, as well as a few other possibilities. everyone starting out can be overwhelmed with the oh my gods what have i gotten into with this camera, and need help, many here are happy to help, but find it better helping knowing that some research has been tried first.
January 9th, 2012
@asrai Peeps, I think what Lee is trying to say here is there are the same posts over and over again. Hopefully, I am not stuffing words into Lee's mouth. If so, I apologize. Such posts as "I'm new, how do I get people to follow me?" or "How do I Bokeh?", etc, are posted over and over and over again.

I am not sure, but wouldn't a "FAQ" tab be a nice add?
January 9th, 2012
@cluvlj yup thats exactly what I am trying to say :)
January 9th, 2012
@cavemonster Thanks so much for posting the link. The guide is so thorough. I even bookmarked it for future reference. Welcome to 365.
January 9th, 2012
@asrai I kind of appreciate the direction. I am a newbie (Boy, am I a newbie!) and would never have thought about looking to see if the question has already been answered. Now I can just read - no waiting! :)
January 9th, 2012
@cluvlj OMG. Now you've done it. You said 'bokeh'. ;)
January 9th, 2012
January 9th, 2012
@voodoochild Hahahaha! I love that I'm a "Silverback"!! Seriously my favourite part of this whole thread:D
January 9th, 2012
@pwallis I prefer it to Greyback, myself. Silver is more distinguished. :)
January 9th, 2012
I dont know what the fuss is all about! I bet if it came from the top man and Ross had posted this , I bet no one would have taken it out of context.
January 9th, 2012
@cavemonster Haha, I was wondering how come it got a hit of new comments! Thanks.
January 9th, 2012
@shadesofgrey Cunning eh? ;)
January 9th, 2012
@azza_l Funny thing is - he DOES tell us, and, as you say, no one fusses over that. Every TIME you start a discussion, there is a big yellow box at the top that says:

STOP! Are you starting a discussion about something that has already been covered? Search the discussion board first. Lets keep the boards fresh.

The word 'search' there is hyperlinked to a nice, fresh search page that says:

Start your discussion search using the box at the top. We'll do our best to find an answer for you.
January 9th, 2012
@beautifulthing Yes, I came out of the closet with that "word". I am sentencing myself to watching to watching the US Congress on C-SPAN for 8 straight days. That should reform me!
January 9th, 2012
@cluvlj Dude - NOBODY deserves that much punishment. :)
January 9th, 2012
I have read through this thread 3 times now but I still can't do "bokeh", I'm off to start a new discussion.
January 10th, 2012
@voodoochild My comment applies to all.
January 10th, 2012
I'm a newbie, and I am loving this community...I posted early on a cheesy (when I read back) post introducing myself and asking how you get people to look at your photos, and I suddenly became visable ...and have lots of followers, and even got a popular photo for a day...

I'm sorry if the exisiting members don't like newbie posts (perhaps don't like is not quite what I mean)....but perhaps there could be a "newbie's section" in the forum?

I actually haven't seen the yellow box that says "stop have you checked"....but reading all these threads, I will be cautious and check through the threads before posting a "newbie question" !!

Thanks to everyone for being so welcoming, and for all the great comments....I am in awe of your photos

January 10th, 2012
@sharonaddison again its not newbie posts that are a problem it is posts that have already been answered it could be from anyone just that those that are new to the forums are more likely to post a thread that has already been answered because it may not have been seen by them. I'll give you an example with the old staple question "How do I do bokeh?"

365project.org/discuss/tips-n-tricks/9594/bokeh
365project.org/discuss/tips-n-tricks/9937/how-to-make-bokeh
365project.org/discuss/general/9542/bokeh
365project.org/discuss/tips-n-tricks/3001/bokeh
365project.org/discuss/tips-n-tricks/365/how-do-you-bokeh
365project.org/discuss/tips-n-tricks/4158/bokeh
365project.org/discuss/general/9566/how-to-do-bokeh

e.t.c. I am sure there are more but its enough to get my drift, one simple search for bokeh gave me all the answers I could need I didn't have to wait around for an answer because its already there and I didn't need to clutter the board by asking again. I hope that has made things a bit clearer
January 10th, 2012
Oh for goodness sake - if you see a discussion happening that you've seen umpteen times before because you've been here so long, then ignore it and go and look at another discussion.......personally I don't really want to see posts from grumpy people having a winge so maybe we could have a special separate little section for them to belly-ache in........
January 10th, 2012
@branwensmith ".personally I don't really want to see posts from grumpy people having a winge..."

Hello, pot. Meet kettle.
January 10th, 2012
January 10th, 2012
at least i havent seen a lot of links starting with http://lmgtfy.com/ that can be quite entertaining - http://lmgtfy.com/?q=let+me+google+that+for+ya is an example of it in action. *note* this was not placed here for any one in particular, but simply for humor
January 10th, 2012
@kaz66 ...



Thrown camera: Canon EOS 5D Mark II, with EF 85mm F/1.2 L II. Just thought you'd get a kick out of it. ;)

There are asshats on every forum (except maybe some of the private ones). Likewise, there are people who will offer unwanted advice, or even advice they are not qualified to give (though they may mean well). It pays to be a little thick-skinned, otherwise people won't want to offer anything constructive to you (or to anyone). By "you" I mean "everyone here, individually".

On another note, if people continually create discussions about the same damn things, when newbies go and search (and find) those discussions, they'll like find less good information simply because the people who have given detailed information in the past will stop bothering to post on the topic, thus the most recent threads are likely to be the most useless, while the older threads will be the most out of date. This creates a situation of epic fail. Let's not have that.

At the same time, if someone does post an oft' repeated topic, just give them a link to an old thread and let the new thread fall off the front page (assuming the old thread is relevant). Harping on about their error, especially by multiple people, will just make them feel unwanted and foolish, while also keeping the "oh, not again" thread on the front page. Drop in a link, point to the search box (stating the term you searched), wish them well, and move the frak on.

The OP was trying to help. If anyone here can't see that, then an open (public) forum is not the place for you. Go and try ILP instead - then you'll see what harsh looks like.
January 10th, 2012
Jeez, well said, jinx. And I'm DONE, because these threads have a way of getting hijacked, and I don't want to add further to the problem!
January 10th, 2012
Yup I think everything that needed to be said has been said.
January 10th, 2012
The End !
January 10th, 2012
@sharonaddison love your comment - from another newbie ;o)
January 10th, 2012
@megsy thank u x
January 10th, 2012
Yeah, everyone quityerbellyachin!
Write a Reply
Sign up for a free account or Sign in to post a comment.