SAVE TINA! (@grecican)

posted March 18th, 2012
Hi everyone,

I'm starting this thread and posting this photo in honor of our fallen comrade Tina.

Tina was kicked off of 365 because several people complained to Ross about her commenting and overall behavior on the site. Tina has a wonderful personality and sense of humor. She can sometimes be off-color, dark, and subjectively inappropriate. Despite this, she is always brilliant, and a pleasure to have in any discussion.

Please fave this photo in support of the reinstating of her account.

It would be great to see it on the Popular Page, but even better to see it in the Top 20.


Thanks, all,
Gary & Socks

posted March 18th, 2012
there's one person on the threads that comments very similar to @grecican, but the tone comes off harshly, and @grecican's tone never seemed harsh to me.... so why kick Tina???? Granted, she seemed to have Tourette's (and I'm not convinced she doesn't), but if we start kicking people off the site because they have no filter, then what's next? Once the precedent is established for censorship, it has the ability to run amuck.

I doubt she was kicked for saying something like "floppin and jaloppin" because there were lots of comments like that on that thread. She may have been kicked for using what is considered a "forbidden" word in the US (there are 3 of them), but even at that... if people were so upset, why couldn't Ross just send her an email and ask her to not use that word and give her the option of using a filter rather than just kick her?
posted March 18th, 2012
Err, here we go again, Tina was extremely rude to a number of people on the site who didn't find her particularly charming as you guys seem to. I run this website for the good of thousands of people and 1 person shouldn't ruin the experience for so many people, her account will not be reinstated as she has shown no remorse for upsetting people and i know if she came back she wouldn't change. I have spoken to her via email so you can all stop the "why didn't you warn her" blah blah posts, I did, and she continued, so it's her own fault.
posted March 18th, 2012
sorry for the iPhone auto corrects
posted March 18th, 2012
@Scrivna Thanks for the response, Ross. I really appreciate the hands-on care you're giving this issue. Please let us know if you plan to rig the PP or the Top 20 to ignore the Save Tina banner. At the rate it's going, it is inevitable that the picture would appear on both pages so long as there wasn't any interference on the backend. If it doesn't appear, it'll be pretty clear to all how fairly you're handling everything.

If you have any desire to resolve this diplomatically, while giving proper consideration to the interests of both parties involved, we could simply compare the amount of people who support Tina's return against the amount of people who complained to you. I'm sure within the next couple of hours, our side will far outweigh the latter -- if it doesn't already. She ruined the site for thousands, you say? Doubt it.

This is your big chance to decide if you're a moderator, or a dictator. Godspeed.
posted March 18th, 2012
I generally didn't find Tina's comments rude or offensive; more often than not they made me laugh, and I think a sense of humour and a thick skin are both necessary in life.

However, her comments on the eating disorder thread REALLY got to me (although not enough to make me complain), and I think they may be the reason that she's been kicked off.
http://365project.org/discuss/general/11174/eating-disorder-awareness-week

Ross is just doing his job
posted March 18th, 2012
@smevvy Just finished reading that whole thread and I see what you're talking about Heather; a lot of her comments were over the line. I do usually appreciate her quirkiness, but that was too much.
posted March 18th, 2012
Hi Ross - I'm not going to tag you here since I have a feeling you'll be getting loads of tags on this topic. I'll just trust that you're keeping abreast of the situation and that my comment will find it's way to you.
I sincerely hope you reconsider your decision on this matter, as I feel your answer was a bit quick in coming, considering not everyone has weighed in with their opinions on the matter. And I'm sure they will. It's part of what makes this site so entertaining at times.
Let me make this clear: I love this site. I love all that I have gained from it, taken from it, and hopefully given back to it. I love the friendships I have made over the course of the past year, and I love the constant source of inspiration here. I think it was sheer genius on your part to get this going and I wish I'd thought of it myself:)
I do not love everyone on here. I'm sure the feeling is reciprocated. I've had a few "ugly" encounters with members of this site. Completely unprovoked verbal attacks launched upon my choice of lifestyle (which is about as mundane as it gets, by the way). I have no problem with that, I can hold my own in that department. And do. What I did not have any desire to do was to contact admin (yourself) to complain about this. Why? Because people are entitled to their opinions, their lifestyle choices and their right to spout off about those choices in a public forum such as this one. If I don't agree with their point of view, I can simply walk away from the conversation, or state my opposing opinion and then walk away. I don't need a babysitter or a referee to mediate for me.
Tina wasn't commiting any hate crimes by stating her (yes, sometimes vulgar, sometimes shocking opinions) - much as some people would like to disagree. I take great offence to the fact that a few people (or maybe more than a few, I don't know, that's rather unclear) can have such a say in choosing what I get to read and view on this forum. It's not their choice to make. It's mine. Just like it's their choice to say what they want right back to her or simply disregard anything she puts out there.
I do hope you take the time to reconsider your decision on this matter. It's kind of a big deal, censorship.
posted March 18th, 2012
I don't even know where to start with that Gary, I'm not going to rig anything, because it really doesn't matter, what if it's on the popular page or in the top 20, what's your point? It's not going to change what has happened.

I'm trying to help people take great photographs and document their lives on this site, not babysit an angry lady that wants to be rude to people. I'm not going to pretend that this site is a perfect democracy and people can say and do whatever without consequence, it isn't, generally people get to do and say as they wish, but there are exceptions, I won't let a few people ruin this site.

If you're consistently rude to people, you're out, end of story. I don't care how many people say they were not offended by her actions, it's the people that were offended that matter.

Look I don't delete peoples accounts on a whim, in the last 4 years I've deleted maybe 3 accounts due to inappropriate behaviour, she really did upset a lot of people. I spoke to her a few times and told her the consequences of continuing to offend people, she ignored them, I did what I said I would and deleted her account.

I don't have any more to say about this.
posted March 18th, 2012
@Scrivna Thanks Ross.
posted March 18th, 2012
Thanks Ross, I reckon you're running this site incredibly well, it's a tough call and at the end of the day, it's your site and it's up to you. I think you're doing a great job :)
posted March 18th, 2012
@smevvy Wow, I’m glad I missed that thread. How disheartening that people made cruel fun and games of it. I enjoy sarcastic humor, but never at the expense of others. And there’s definitely no place for it in this community.
posted March 18th, 2012
Good to know that 365 is cool with people using it to Internet-groom teenage conquests, but NOT with using it to 'offend people'. I also like knowing that, as an unoffended person, my opinion carries no weight on this site. I'll make sure to keep that in mind the next time my Ace fee comes due. Rock on.
posted March 18th, 2012
Can we email and complain about anything we find offensive, HDR for example
posted March 18th, 2012
@gurry I've located the complainers. Hint: they've thanked Ross.

posted March 18th, 2012
@jasehoad HDR is hideous, I love it!
posted March 18th, 2012
Being offensive to one person is not on in my book, bullying should not be ignored or tolerated. I understand that some people can handle more than others, that some people have different tolerations for this kind of behavior... In the end a warning was given and ignored. If you let bad behaviors keep happening the board would be unpleasant to say the least.
posted March 18th, 2012
@lacedxxoo I don't think your comment helps. I don't know Tina but I do have faith in the people running the board to make the right decisions. Looking at the big picture may help.
posted March 18th, 2012
@jasehoad Haha : )


I didn't know where she went : ( I miss her.
posted March 18th, 2012
@sugarmuser I think Ross does a good job managing a site this big. But one person who was funny getting kicked off because some people can't laugh or ignore what they find offensive is a bit ridiculous when a man who was openly preying on young girls (sorry to have to bring this up) still has an account on here.
I was making a joke. I apologize. One day, I hope everyone on this site, including myself (cuz I'm staying far from the discussions from now on), can laugh again and focus on photography.
We all need a laugh every now and then, and I really don't think Tina is a bully. She had a place here. She made a lot of people laugh........ And I would be willing to bet money on the fact that more people found her funny rather than strictly offensive.
If there are typos in this, I apologize. I'm on my phone.
posted March 18th, 2012
@beautifulthing Admittedly, the fact that he’s still a part of this site has me scratching my head because a) I don’t know why he wasn’t banned and b) I don’t know why he doesn’t want to delete his account.
posted March 18th, 2012
I have seen a few people get rude, offensive and questionable. I chose to unfollow, ignore or comment on what I didnt like. I think since Jason B's account is still active and the Valentine week #1 photo made it to the top 20 2 weeks in row we could agree that you have to be quite offensive to have your account closed. I think the subject matter she chose to be " humorous" about was pushing it on this type site. We are all here for photography not "comedian wantabee". Since she was given warnings and continued then perhaps she didnt really want to be here. I had no problem with her but then again I never read the Eating Order discussion until today. I would definitely have more issue if I had children on the site, but I don't and can follow who I like and stay away from those I don't.
posted March 18th, 2012
@lacedxxoo I didn't complain! I just think Ross is doing a really great job and people should stop being so hard on him because at the end of the day, he's one man, running this site in his own time out of the goodness of his heart!
posted March 18th, 2012
@naomi :) 'twas just a joke. And you're very right.
posted March 18th, 2012
This site used to be fun....Sad.
posted March 18th, 2012
No offense, but I could tell people were very upset but one discussion, but did anyone bothered to take the time to go to an old photo of Tina's and say, hey, that really offended me and I would appreciate it if you would stay away from that topic in the future? Anyone .... (crickets) anyone. No some people got into a public pissing contest, and most of us in the same situation would act defensive. So those of you who were so upset and bothered, did any of you take the time to go offline and try and talk to her.

I mentioned something in a very polite and calm way on another picture that she may be upsetting others. Did I notice a change, absolutely, have we ever talked about it again, nope, because I could see the difference in what she was actually saying. I guess others here make a first impression and do not see when someone is slowly trying to make a change.

Also, I really resent the term bullying being bandied about around here. Just because someone does not like your photo, hdr, babies, selective color and wants to say something does NOT mean that they are threatening you in anyway. So lets please not use that word @sugarmuser in this conversation. In no way did Tina EVER tell a person that their photo was awful, that she was going to torment them in private, or that she was going to cause physical harm.
posted March 18th, 2012
There are many types of bullying... Subtle bullying is still bullying... However having not been the person involved I have no right to say she bullied.
posted March 18th, 2012
Re the specific thread....a question was posed and she gave her honest answer......no subltness, no passive agressivness, and not directed at anyone specific person, I know Tina and I had posed the same question she would have given the same answer.....she 's being vilified for being honest and a smart ass....nothing more. She gets under some peoples skin, others find her funny but I will bet large amounts of whatever you want to wager that not one person who was offended ever went to her and talked one on one about it. I've had it out with one specific user on here and we let it and each other alone .....never tattled to Ross, never asked anyone else to step in for me. Would be the adult thing to do for everyone else to do the same until and unless the situation gets out of hand. Floppin and jaloppin got out of hand and Ross addressed the situation but still let the user keep the account and there were/are criminal charges applicable ....so how is it fair that Tina lost her account for less? @sugarmuser
posted March 18th, 2012
What @mej2011 said is right.

There's a very fine line between funny and insensitive. This isn't really the place for snarky, nasty comments, particularly when the stories shared are so personal.

And you can hardly compare a photo of a penis to that.

posted March 18th, 2012
Mockery is not exactly bullying. You can mock without being a bully.

Honestly, people need to start taking some responsibility for their own feelings. This (false) idea that we're the victim of our emotions and the people around us who stir them is a not helping anyone.


/eta/However, i don't think anyone has a 'right' to free speech on Ross's website. I think this is a misconception- just like if I write a book, I'm under no obligation to allow others to write anything at all in it. They are FREE (in free countries) to write their own books, and we are all free to run our own web sites to state our opinions. I don't agree with the decision to ban a member (this instance), but he is permitted to do so.
posted March 18th, 2012
@indiannie_jones No, it is not the photo of the penis that was the problem but his talking about his penis and what it would do with a sixteen year old girl. So a trolling perv is much worse than someone who is snarky about a disease by far.

@echoia thank you
posted March 18th, 2012
@brumbe Instead, everyone flocked to a thread (or multiple threads, idk) about what a terrible person he is, which has pushed him away from the site anyway. Problem solved.
posted March 18th, 2012
@indiannie_jones And people like to talk about what a terrible person Tina is, let nature run its course : )
posted March 18th, 2012
This used to be a very close community, where people could vent about their day and share their experiences with one another. Now, not so much. @echoia
posted March 18th, 2012
No matter how many people say things on this thread (including myself), even if it is eloquently written and sophisticated, nothing is going to change anyone's basic opinion. Ross is going to do what he feels is right for HIS website. If you feel as though this is an OUTRAGE or whatever, then go to flickr and have a great time. Otherwise, just deal with it and stop complaining.
If whatsherface still wants another account, she'll just make another one with a different email, insult more people, and get kicked off again. It's the circle of life.
posted March 18th, 2012
How about we all remember the phrase 'if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all'. Then leave this thread and get on with our projects. Ross has already stated that he's not going to change his opinion on the banning. So what's done is done. All we can do is learn from other's mistakes and move on!
posted March 18th, 2012
:(

Damn, I liked Tina. Seems a bit like kicking John McEnroe out of tennis...
posted March 18th, 2012
I'll miss Tina........
posted March 18th, 2012
@beautifulthing
Don't tell me that guys still shaking his balls at preteens??? I presumed he'd gone ages ago!
posted March 18th, 2012
I'm personally on the side of the Insular-Nazi-Christian-bully exposers.
Get her off, kick 'em out, kick 'em all out for that matter every last one of 'em, everyone with a Z in their name, get 'em booted.
posted March 18th, 2012
@chewyteeth Nah. Its the principal of the thing, though. If you delete one person because they "offended" a lot of people and people "complained", then delete the other, yanno?
posted March 18th, 2012
@beautifulthing yea
sounds like she's out though. Damn, she was cool, and I liked her pics and I think she genuinely enjoyed posting her pics. Used to hate the way she'd process her self portraits to death though 'cause she was hot. We should turn this into a eulogy to Tina.
posted March 18th, 2012
Now that I know who is behind the "Barnette Incident" my opinion of it has changed completely. I thought everyone was talking about someone else. Wow....

I'm going to throw 2 more cents in here: for starters, does anyone personally KNOW Tina??? I'm not saying she has tourette's or aspberger's, but what if she did? Would you say banning her for what she says and not being remorseful about it is justified? Because if she does have something like that, its not her fault. Also, did anyone that complained about her EVER stop to think that maybe there's something going on her life that is difficult and the way she approaches things is a defense mechanism? Again, not saying that's the case with her but the point is... if you don't KNOW her, you don't KNOW her situation. Don't be so quick to damn her without KNOWING.

The fact that she was banned makes me worry that all it will take is for a few of those Million Moms people to complain about the subject matter of a photograph of mine or using a word like "damn" and I'll be banned. I think there are more people that will feel "unsafe" on this site as a result of banning her than there are people that feel "safe" with her gone.
posted March 19th, 2012
@jsw0109 "The fact that she was banned makes me worry that all it will take is for a few of those Million Moms people to complain about the subject matter of a photograph of mine or using a word like "damn" and I'll be banned. I think there are more people that will feel "unsafe" on this site as a result of banning her than there are people that feel "safe" with her gone."

This. This right here.
posted March 19th, 2012
@beautifulthing Tina did piss me off once with an insensitive comment that was uncalled for.... but I don't run around trying to conform the world to MY standards... I just adapt to the fact the world is full of diversity, some I appreciate and some I don't. It was nothing that made me feel compelled to go "tattle" on her, because, honestly, how would I benefit from that?

I do worry that by defending her, I'm pissing people off, and I shouldn't have to WORRY about doing and saying what I believe to be the RIGHT thing to do and say.

posted March 19th, 2012
@jsw0109 Exactly. Frankly, I could not possibly care less about who I'm pissing off. That's no way to live your life, being a slave to other peoples puppies-and-rainbows opinions. I'm not going to be a sheep, and I don't think you should be either. :) I have had beef with people on this site in the past, and I dealt with them like a grown-up - by talking to the person in question. When I see something I don't like, I move on. I don't expect the world to bend to please me. If so, Jersey Shore would not exist and Nickleback would disappear. ;)
posted March 19th, 2012
@beautifulthing in my world, Justin Bieber would do hard time for life in a maximum security prison with no chance for parole just for that haircut he sported for the longest time. But alas, it is not my world. We'll have to coexist with the Bieber, Nickelback, and Jersey Shore
posted March 19th, 2012
hi all, this is Tina. no seriously... it's me. i still have an account since i'm part of the I Can Haz Teh Suck group.

first off... Gary, i'm deeply moved and humbled you would even spark this convo in my honor. and to hear such feedback from everyone has been enlightening. the good, the bad, the ugly.

so... perhaps i can address some issues and questions some of you have.

no... i don't have Assburgers and/or Tourette's. and yes, i know it's Asperger's. and no, i don't give a shit.

no. there is nothing wrong with my personal life. as a matter of fact, i'm a pretty happy person who walks around with a shit-eating grin most of the time. and, i swear it's not the green stuff. mostly.

yes... i am a politically incorrect asshole. and no, i won't apologize for it. my words are just that. who gives a shit what i think? i can assure you, i don't give a shit about what you have to say/feel/think. after all, this is The Internets. and like the ol' meme goes, arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics... even if you win, you're still retarded.

so, Ross... i'd like to thank you for letting me know via a thread (he didn't tell me he was not going to reactivate my account... i had to read it for myself here. cheers to that!) that my account will not be reactivated. you've proved once and for all, you're a big time pussy. kudos!

on a good note, i met some god damn awesome folks on this site. made some wicked friends. and seen some incredible talent that has sincerely taken my breath away on multiple occasions. this is the only reason i'll miss this site... enjoying the beauty through your eyes on a daily basis.

i won't bother addressing anyone else or adding anymore comments if anyone else has anything to say, because, seriously... i don't give a fuck. it's just a website, dudes.

now... enough with this dribble... gonna head over to redtube and find something to masturbate to.

cheers~
posted March 19th, 2012
@icanhazthesuck
redtube is so last year, you want 'tube monsoon'
will miss you dude.

Oh, and pissed I couldn't be in the icanhazthesuck gang! dick!
posted March 19th, 2012
@dieter I love your comparison Dieter. I totally agree. Sure at time even I shook my head as Tina pushed the boundaries of appropriateness, but most of the time it was entertaining as hell and that's why I feel like there is something seriously missing from the site since she left.
posted March 19th, 2012
@icanhazthesuck @chewyteeth @jsw0109 @beautifulthing @onie @dieter @naomi @leahmnash @indiannie_jones @echoia @brumbe @shadesofgrey @sugarmuser @mej2011 @lacedxxoo @jannkc @grizzlysghost @jasehoad @lisjam1 @buttercup @pwallis @smevvy @Scrivna

I am really saddened to learn that Tina's account has been deactivated. I noticed this about a week ago and was concerned for her welfare. Although I didn't always agree with her commentary and early on took offensive, I let her know this. More importantly, I followed her got to know her and respected the art she was producing. Not all art is necessarily in good taste, and Tina has a great capacity for experimentation and to provoke with bad taste. It reminds me a little of Warhol, or the celebrated naked shock horror of John and Yoko. I could go down the list but her work is not particularly deviant and made me laugh a lot. (I was not sure what the so-called Barnette incident which was referred to in the thoughts on nudity discussion, but I think Shelly has cleared that up now.)

Moreover, interestingly as result of Tina, and being inspired by the processing tools she uses I tried some things differently, such editing with tilt shift.

As a user of this site I think it is incumbent upon its operator that if there are considered to be rules, codes of conduct, or a code of practice which could result in exclusion then these need to be explicit and clearly enunciated. I have always found it easy to choose who I follow and how I respond or whether I want to.

The terms of service for 365 states in relation to discussion boards:

"We reserve the right to remove any content deemed inappropriate for general consumption.
Any opinions expressed on the site are those of the person that made them only. 365 Project is in no way responsible for comments made by others or their repercussions."

In relation to cancellation or termination of service it states:

"Any abuse of the Service will lead to termination of your account. 365 Project reserves the right to decide what is considered abuse of the Service."

On one hand the Terms of Service seem to imply to a Plain English reader that opinions and repercussions of opinions are individual's freedom of expression for which 365 is neither accountable, nor is the individual. Yet on the other hand it states that abuse of service can lead to cancellation of account and that this can be arbitrarily determined and decided upon after an event.

I think it would be helpful for the 365 community given the commentary that has occurred on threads, including this one, that a more informative code of conduct, code of practice or Terms of service is developed which enunciates these issues.

If there is to be a complaints process then this also needs to be outlined, the possibility of sanctions, procedural fairness and natural justice needs to be considered.

Just saying...

BTW. There is a spammer on this page. Hilarious!

posted March 19th, 2012
@chriswang its like we need some "spice" sometimes (agree) ..... but not all the time ....

in the brighter side.... lets wait and see ..... following > @icanhazthesuck ... =)

and .... @dsgerh i love when you pop out in a conversation like this! ... its entertaining!!! really it is! (im talking to a robot!) .....
posted March 19th, 2012
@peterdegraaff A clearer TOU or an ignore button. It all could have been solved with a simple ignore button where you can see a person is writing in the forums/on photos (so you're not totally confused by conversation) but their messages are blank to you.
posted March 19th, 2012
LOL I just realized Tina is the new Barnette
posted March 19th, 2012
@echoia That could work as well, but think the terms of service need clarification. it is bit like trying to have a bet each way. BTW my aged mother loved John McEnroe @dieter
posted March 19th, 2012
@icanhazthesuck Miss you:(
posted March 19th, 2012
@icanhazthesuck @grecican

“It is better to be hated for what you are than loved for what you are not.”
― André Gide

posted March 19th, 2012
I disappear for 10 days and this is what happens? One of my most loyal fans has been removed. Tut tut tut 365. I think i will be deactivating my own account before i get kicked off. too much is considered inappropriate on this site now.
posted March 19th, 2012
@peterdegraaff
yeah.
She never did anything that came anywhere near my boundary for what is appropriate or not, I must be hard to offend. I know for sure I won't bother coming back to the discussion page again for the rest of my time here, not to hear 'Hey my upload page is different today, anyone else experiencing difficulties' threads.
posted March 19th, 2012
@peterdegraaff I agree a clarification would be necessary if the account had been closed just because there were complaints but according to Ross he spoke to her a few times and she was not willing to contain. I prefer the individual reaction as opposed to a general rule with no warnings of when you cross the line. I enjoyed her work also and wish it hadnt happened.
posted March 19th, 2012
@debsphotos Are you suggesting that saying mean things is the same as physically hurting somebody? And that people with offensive potty mouths should be arrested? Are you out of your friggin' mind?

Yeah, let's just ship them off to the Gulag!

Sticks and stones...
posted March 19th, 2012
@gurry -- That's not what I said at all. You keep reading between the lines on what people post and just don't get the overall picture. I deleted my comment cause I can see you don't take the comments the same way you expect everyone to take yours. I'm off the thread....it's not worth my time.
posted March 19th, 2012
So I guess I should comment as I was her partner in crime in the thread that kicked off the whole thing. But as I'm not to clever with words, then a photo of how I feel shall have to do.

To be honest Ross feel free to remove my account if this upsets, offends, bothers, makes you lose sleep, seek counselling as the whole situation has become somewhat of a joke.

posted March 19th, 2012
@Scrivna i seem to have missed the thread that has sparked all of this off but i think you do very well maintaining this site and a year ago it was a fun place to be. TBH i do my project and partake in some threads and kick some off but just lately the sarcasm and bullying is getting simply too much and its a shame that a ring of people spoil it. Personally i dont give a damn, but its bad when you see new people start and read their comments about how they avoid discussions because of the above. I think you did right to delete someone who makes others feel uncomfortable.
posted March 19th, 2012
I was going to chicken out and not say what i think - but here goes. It is really demoralizing to have a sincere question or comment to make, start a thread and have it almost immediately hijacked with mean off-topic comments. It does feel like a low level of bullying to me - takes me back to 7th grade when I remember what it was like to be on both sides of that. I think the ED comments were particularly ugly. When I read something like those, they just color my day. I have a serious fear of censorship so I'm not completely comfortable with my position in this - but this is not a democracy, @scrivna has the burden of the decisions to make this a place where personal photography projects are promoted. I just always felt I wanted the mean conversations to be held somewhere else. I take this seriously; I'm sad for the upset at 365.
posted March 19th, 2012
@reba Well said. I agree completely.
posted March 19th, 2012
@kmrtn6 @reba @lisjam1 Thank you for stepping up and saying what I have been thinking. I have been here for over a year, and it wasn't until this year that I have felt uncomfortable in commenting on threads. I don't think it is fair that people who haven't been here very long get stigmatised for asking a question that a lot of people would have wanted answered when they started, even if they didn't ask it at the time. I don't appreciate threads getting hi-jacked. In my opinion, if there has been a warning (and it sounds like there were a couple) and it wasn't heeded, then Ross is completely within his rights. I wasn't one of the people who complained, but I don't think it is fair that something is overtaken by the out-spoken few.
posted March 19th, 2012
@jasehoad

thread seems to have been hijacked by the anti-Tina knitting group of Iowa, but I'm with you.

Yeah sure Ross does a good job with the site we all love it, but after a while it gets boring just uploading and its fun to have interesting people making you laugh with their antics. If the anti-Tina knitting group of Iowa are glad she's gone they better man up and head over to my project and make me laugh, or if they can't (and I'm sure they can't) they better reconsider their stance.

And as a secondary school teacher, I'm gonna prepare a handout on bullying, because when someone swears or cracks a joke, that ain't bullying ladies.
posted March 19th, 2012
@Scrivna @gurry This site is Ross' brainstorm. His site, his decision. Tina did not offend me at all, but that is beside the point. When you work with advertisers, etc, it should be an inviting site, and not the opposite.

I would surmise that if Ross really wanted to prevent this outcry, he could have just closed the thread, but he lets it go on. I know he can so that if it does not pertain to the nature of the site of the sites purpose.

So, worse things could happen. Tina will continue in one way shape or form.

Have a great day folks.
posted March 19th, 2012
@Scrivna Right on. People certainly are brave when they can berate and belittle online, kind of anonymously. Yeah, we may follow each others pictures, learn from each others skills, but really....we don't know each other. I'll bet keeping this website interesting and pleasing to the greater whole is not easy.
posted March 19th, 2012
@chewyteeth @jasehoad

They're not even knitting. Just whining.
posted March 19th, 2012
@chewyteeth I never said anything specifically against Tina, nor did I mention bullying. Is it not allowed for me to voice my opinion? It was the attitude as a whole that made it uncomfortable, sometimes even from people I respect an awful lot. The main thing I had a problem with was mocking someone who was obviously new and had a basic rookie question to ask - not necessarily directly them, but mocking the thread as a whole. It just makes the site a little insular and rather cliquey. Just answer the question and move on, rather than make a big deal out of it.

Was it Shades who made a Beginners Guide? I think that has helped an awful lot with cutting down these threads, but they are still there.

I think that something that could be private, be it email or instant messaging, or just even a section in the discussion boards entitled "chat" or "conversation" (go ahead, think up a different name - I would!!!) would be great for groups of people to have a laugh without having to resort to Facebook or someone elses threads. I'm not a computer person though, so I don't know how hard some of that is to do.

These are just observations and opinions though - I am fully aware and accepting that other people have other ideas. :)

BTW, I just had a look at your profile - some of your portraits are absolutely stunning!
posted March 19th, 2012
@gurry I wouldn't say I am whining. I'm stating my opinion, rather like you are. I'm not starting an argument, just looking at the flip side of the coin.
posted March 19th, 2012
@gurry I knit. I could knit circles around your grandma. I'm awesome. :D I sometimes knit WHILE I whine. Mostly just while I drink wine. Shutting up now.
posted March 19th, 2012
@gurry i'm not whining just stating an opinion just like you are in a much more inflated way. we are all entitled to opinions but when people are putting newbies in a corner thats not on, all of you, like everyone had to start somewhere.
posted March 19th, 2012
posted March 19th, 2012
i'm a nice person, generally. things annoy me from time to time. i usually don't say anything, especially on the internet because 1) it can be taken differently than I intend, and 2) sometimes it's just not even worth my time or effort.

complaining about Tina's banishment isn't going to change it. This site belongs to Ross, and Ross makes the decisions. Ass kissing isn't going to do anything either, so can we all just stop with the blathering? I love Tina, but she doesn't even give a shit about this, so why does anyone else?
posted March 19th, 2012
Internet threads are horrible though ain't they? I'm off to my profile on model mayhem to message cute women.
posted March 19th, 2012
G
Eish! What a performance.... I'm just capturing 2012, one day at a time, for the memories. I have a couple of followers. If someone wants to tell me that my pictures are shit, it's their opinion. They weren't there at the time. I was.
posted March 19th, 2012
@sdpace Nice. That's how I should have put it.
posted March 20th, 2012
I have only been on here for a few months, and i dont get involved with the discussions, i just enjoy looking at the photographs.

I felt inclined to comment because the issue of censorship is close to my heart.

People should have the freedom to say what they want to say, but context is important. Tina mentions her love of stand-up comedy, and has obviously watched alot of Doug Stanhope, Bill Hicks, Frankie Boyle or god forbid Andrew Dice Clay.

The issue of context is crucial because people choose to watch/listen to those people (and this relates to people viewing Mapplethorpe or listening to Dr Dre or reading Lolita) and so that content is expected, and desired.

And although there are saucy things on here, and frequent banter that sails close to the wind of offence, the context that Ross has created (and chosen to uphold) is, it seems to me, one of support and artistic expression.

I am sure there are "contexts" elsewhere that can offer what you want if that is not offered here. And if you don't feel comfortable with what is acceptable here then you can simply fu.....No, i will not sully my point to get a cheap laugh.

Oh, and i am utter filth, never knitted in my life, but understand the simple tenant that "there is a time and place"

posted March 20th, 2012
@markolver this is probably the best comment I've read and as I can't fav it, I'll follow instead :-)
posted March 20th, 2012
@andycoleborn Thank you for the follow Andy, be prepared to be massively underwhelmed. I am much better with words that i am with images.

But thank you for the comment on my comment. I can break out the uber pomposity (and make up words) when i need to.
posted March 20th, 2012
I've been thinking all day if I should react to this tread, even when I sympathize...

@icanhazthesuck Couldn't agree more.... and that's all I was planning going to say about this... But...

C'mon people, let's talk photography.... that's why we're here, even when we do get bored with it :-P Tell me what's wrong about my pics... And though I do not like the fact that Tina has been removed from the site (I don't like censorship either; when I don't like what I'm reading I tend to just move on, and i did like her spicing up things with honesty now and then....) and have fav'd the above pic this afternoon to make that clear.

I know for sure I'll never get "hurt" on this site... just because no-one reallyreally knows me (except for my two big sisters, who are also on here) duh.... All I want is honesty about my pics when someone comments, and if it's critique it will only make me want do better... and if there's a "f"-word in the critique.. or wtf ever (:P)... that's ok by me....

the world isn't an ideal place.. and nore is my imagination....

And now I've written more than I wanted to here...
posted March 20th, 2012
@markolver no worries chap.. To paraphrase quim (sic) any old shit can be good... :-)
posted March 20th, 2012
@markolver - well said
posted March 20th, 2012
At any point in this can we all just have a group hug, pretend to like each other, and go about our day talking behind each others backs? Please? Fuck. I think I just need a hug.
posted March 20th, 2012
@markolver nicely said
posted March 20th, 2012
@lacedxxoo i second that emotion.



except Ross. he can kiss my thick black ass
posted March 20th, 2012
@markolver @reba both of you have expressed my sentiments so well i can go back to my knitting.
posted March 20th, 2012
@Scrivna - Ross I think you are a great job with the site and supporting people to take great photos. I totally support your comments that if someone was offended, then action has to be taken. As you have said you contacted Tina numerous times and her behaviour did not change. People can choose to read the threads or not but people also need to treat people how they would like to be treated themselves. Being rude or bullying others should not be tolerated.
posted March 20th, 2012
@reba thank you for speaking up. I could not agree more.
posted March 20th, 2012
@chard @definitelydeb big :) - thanks
posted March 20th, 2012
@reba Following you. Love your photos.
posted March 20th, 2012
@markolver I completely agree with you! Very well said! After reading..I was actually relaxed!

@reba Thanks for getting in Reba! It surely made a difference! :)
posted March 20th, 2012
I just want to say I support Ross' decision. This site is not the place to bully 17 year olds, and if Tina was unable to change her behaviour, and she has made it clear she couldn't, then Ross was right to deactivate her account. Personally, I found her occasionally humorous, but more often immature and attention seeking. Its a pity she couldn't stick to doing her photography and sharing her 'humour' with those who evidently appreciated it, but bullying children is just not acceptable.
posted March 20th, 2012
@markolver nice work Mo. You seem to have managed to pacify this whole thing for the time being :)
posted March 20th, 2012
save me??? geeze I had no idea....
posted March 20th, 2012
well that explains why she didn't comment on my eatshit scrabble tiles...well poo. i will miss her humor and her particular style of thought and comments, but i get where Ross is coming from. isn't that always the way of things though - the majority hasn't ruled for several decades now. a community of thousands and if a, by comparison, small percentage are upset, then the rules are changed to accommodate the few. i.e. It's not Christmas anymore because of the 5 or 6 people at the company or school that celebrate something else. The squeaky wheel gets the oil you know. I for one, love this site and community and will soldier on.
posted March 20th, 2012
Yawn....25 mins I wont get back.
posted March 20th, 2012
It's funny how people are going all Arab Spring on Ross... Calm down people.
posted March 20th, 2012
@Scrivna - Thank you Ross for kepping this site clean.
posted March 20th, 2012
@dave616 BAHAHAHAHHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

okay. that shit was fucking funny.
posted March 20th, 2012
Yes, the Valentine's #1 was a shocker, for me....

@jannkc
posted March 20th, 2012
Well its definitely the funniest thread since, well, the Eating Disorders one I guess.
posted March 20th, 2012
@miley89 That picture changed my life. Srsly. Well, maybe not all that, but I LOVE it. It's in my Personal Top Five here on 365. Maybe my Top Three. You are a rock star.
posted March 20th, 2012
Haha. It was a shocker for me. I'd never had a photo on the top 20 before!

@beautifulthing
posted March 20th, 2012
@miley89 It was hilarious AND a good photo, composition/processing-wise and all that. It deserved to be there and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. :)
posted March 20th, 2012
Amy
This site used to be fun and full of people who were supportive and kind and helpful... used to be... and these events, along with some of the comments/positions show are the very reason why I don't spend as much time on here as I used to - because the atmosphere has changed. It has cycled downward... to a very dark and uninviting place that I am not sure that I even want to be a part of any longer.
posted March 21st, 2012
@msk1p2 see thats just the thing this thread has highlighted that it isnt just a small percentage. that photo has been viewed 700plus times but only fav 47, so im guessing the thread and photo have shown that it may infact be the minority that care about her coming back, the minority complaining and the vast majority of people on here who really just dont give a damn... i fall in to the later group.
posted March 21st, 2012
@sarahricho yeah, you're probably right. In the meantime, just tripped through a few of your pics - Flint is really beautiful bird!
posted March 21st, 2012
@msk1p2 Awww Thankyou, she's my special little girl, such a character :-)
posted March 21st, 2012
Since this thread is still going...

@beautifulthing haha, I just looked through http://365project.org/jasonbarnette/365 355 images only to be disappointed in not finding anything offensive or is it ART??

Plenty of people post bare ass shots on here and I keep my "Oh you shouldn't have taken it from that angle, it looks so big" comments to myself.

Critiquing someone’s photo for their content, processing or lack of either would be seen as the norm on here, but getting rude, arrogant or uncalled for comments about a new thread or days image from someone hiding behind a computer screen is not on.

The “Shock Jock” or should that be “1337kid” style comments are funny like three times then they are just plain boring. Unfortunately we have no self moderating tool for threads or ignore option...that would be nice "wink wink".

As for Ross's role he has the rights and the responsibility of maintaining/moderating and administering a fuzzy loving community site for ALL users in this PHOTOGRAHPY community.
As for people going on about Censorship...how about common sense?

As @peterdegraaff pointed out about the Terms of Service its outlined in very plain English.

Ever been told to “RTFM”?
posted March 21st, 2012
also wanted to add that all of the internet forums i have been on over the years have been moderated, i dont get why its such a big deal :-)

ohh yeah thats right.... what's this internet you talk about? apparently i dont know what the internet is at all about because im a mum and i knit (disclaimer i dont actually knit)
posted March 21st, 2012
Amy
@sarahricho ~ you should. It's fun. I could teach you ;o)
posted March 21st, 2012
@flagged Aw. People who don't have a clue about what they're talking about are SO fracking precious. Stay gold, sweetie.
posted March 21st, 2012
@flagged makes sense to me. everyone is always so supportive of nudes, and were of his and then everyone changes their tune because of misunderstandings. to be honest, maybe i'll be the first to down right say it? i didn't complain, but i am damn glad she is gone and i hope she takes a few of you with her. this sight was very inviting and enjoyeable and safe and friendly. but about august last year the sight quickly started to spiral down. most of you complained back then about cussing and content and that this is a family friendly site, but hell look at your own language! ho about growing up and stop being hypocrits? this sight has gotten so bad that i barely upload 3 photos a month, if that. its just terrible to come too.
posted March 21st, 2012
to me it juts makes this site like there is a clique, and if you get in then whooppiee! if not then its like your abolished, your threads are over run by rudeness and unthoughtful people. no one can stay on the topic of photography on this site anymore. if you want to banter in good fun its understandable. but dont get rude or that new comers are threatened.
posted March 25th, 2012
@miley89 @beautifulthing Sorry took so long but hadnt looked at the thread this week. I agree with Ross that the Valentine #1 was chosen by the masses. It was a great photo and to most awesome. I just dont like the use of the word in any context and feel with all the kids on here maybe not appropriate but because of how the site works- it was #1. I congratulate you and have no bad feelings about it.
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