I've recently joined 365, and as a budding amateur photographer I'm really enjoying the challenge of having to push myself outside of my comfort zone to find "that" shot! I also enjoy the community feel to it, and how people are happy to share comments about your latest work.
My question though is when or if it is appropriate to have negative or more constructive feedback to people I'm following, or are following me. I'm all for the positive comments and generally this is much more appropriate, but sometimes I think "my/their work would look better if..."Is it just me, but sometimes I just want to be challenged.
I'd appreciate your thoughts (but keep it positive!).
Great question. I've been on this site for 3 months now and while the positive feedbacke is nice, there are times when I think constructive criticism would be helpful as well. I certainly would welcome it and wouldn't really care if it wasn't that nicely phrased either.
There have certainly been times when I saw something that I wanted to comment about but have held back.
Anyone looking at my site should feel free to comment, one way or the other.
Brett, It might be helpful to know what software you are using for editing your photos ( if any). That would help to guide the commentary. People sometimes put this info in their profile so that the viewer know where you are coming from and has an idea of your level of expertise/experience
here one would call it critique instead of negative feedback. I personally have always welcomed suggestions from those I follow and have a commenting relationship with. I also find it comes better in the form of a question such as "while editing did you think of ..." "this could have had a different feeling if done in portrait" "I wonder what this would look like with more ... or less ..."
@lisainstpete I'm all for supporting my fellow photographers - I think most people have an image that the internet is full of trolls ready to jump on you at any opportunity - but I'd be surprised if this is the type of forum they'd get much interest from. I'm in a group on Facebook where some people can be down right mean, although they normally come across as bored and lonely!
@phillyphotos Yes, "critique" is the right word. I agree with your leading question idea. I've tried it, and that seems to work. It's just that I'm not seeing a lot of those type of questions being asked, so I don't want to come across as the smart alec asking all the hard questions!
I have seen photographers specifically asking for feedback for certain pictures. And I also have seen it on the little bios blurp about the photographer.
From my personal experience, my photos get better, when another photographer shares how they achieved a great image. Once someone explained how to do dual exposures after I asked about it in a comment. Or how to do light painting. Or post a link to a good tutorial. That in my eyes, is much more valuable.
I agree with Paula, it is all how you write it. I have never seen a comment that completely trashes a photo and hope it will stay that way. While I do want to become a better photographer, I don't want to feel berated. And we all know that there are those sh... days when nothing works, but you want to put something up to keep the 365 going.
For the most part this site is very positive. Even when you ask for critiques they are very lite. Put it in your profile line. Ask for specific critique on certain pics. There is also a discussion page for critiques.
In general though, even then, people will be very kind on this site.
As for critiquing others, if they don't ask, don't, unless you know them well.
For me, critique away. I love it. And have made my most growth that way. I joined a photo club for just that purpose. Once a month we have a judge come in and tell us all about how to make our photos better.
@caseyrybeck some people I follow put a line under each photo stating that constructive criticism is welcome. I agree there is a way to say something to someone without hurting their feelings. If someone asks for critique good or not, the photographer needs to learn how to take it. simple things like a suggestion for a different crop are easy to handle but sometimes we love a photo and someone's comments may hurt a bit. I just try to remember that my opinion is the one that ultimately matters. I do actually like critique and not just positive comment all the time, it helps me grow. I too will share anything another photographer asks about a photo as far as technique is concerned. I will also admit my lucky mistakes when a photo is actually good and I had nothing to do with it being that way other than holding the camera. all this being said, I looked at your photos and I like your style. you have found some great subjects! enjoy!
As has already been mentioned most people here offer only positive and nice comments. You have to ask for constructive critique and even then it's not always forthcoming. I have also found that providing a little blurb about yourself helps folks to understand what you want to get out of your photography.
From personal experience I have found that by being interactive with others you pick up who is willing to give and receive feedback. Also agree that the word negative is not really the right expression, critique is much better. Since we are all individuals our likes and dislikes will differ.
I think everyone feels good with nice and positive comments, because everyone has done some effort to make a photo, but personaly I would like to learn how to make any particular photo better. I know I can and should do much better, but don't always know how, so constructive critique from someone who knows better or just observes it more objectivly, is more then welcome. So if per example my composition is no good I would wanna know why...
On the other hand I think that people tend to stop and comment on photos they really do like, and that is one of the reasons for mostly positive comments..
@lisainstpete I know we regularly comment on one another's work so also please don't hold back if you want to give me some advice, or critique something!!
I put in my information blurb that I am here to learn so the more criticism/ how to make it better I get, the happier I'll be but I find most people don't do that. Once in a blue moon I get a comment telling me they would have cropped it differently or something and I'm really appreciative. Also once in a blue moon, I say I feel a photo would have been better had A been done instead of B, but I'm not sure how it is received!
If the feedback is constructive criticism, then personally I'l welcome it - I'm here to improve and appreciate tips on how to do things better. So something like, "This has good aspects, but how about doing x, y and z next time for a different result", not just "Don't like this"
I'm with you guys. While the positive feedback is nice (sometimes any feedback is nice) it would be good to get constructive criticism or suggestions. However, most people are really busy and do not have a lot of time to devote to commenting.
The place I do feel more inclined to add more comments is with the 'Get-pushed' challenge where a person is paired up with another for the week and issues personal challenges. I find that it is more personal, and therefore easier to make more direct comments.
I always start my feedback with a positive comment and then tactfully make a suggestion or constructive criticism.
I think that I feel more comfortable critiquing a person I have been following a long time, and have built up a bit of a relationship so I know their abilities and style and can therefore give that comment.
I would encourage you to get involved with the different themes, challenges, and discussions to build your network. You will then find people are more inclined to make that comment when you ask for it.
@caseyrybeck I find it very hard to give comments and criticisms. From both sides - either a shot is utterly gorgeous - in which case, what can you say except 'wonderful'. Analysing it seems a little geeky and unnecessary. I've not really got the photographic understanding to add anything useful or insightful - I'd rather just enjoy it. And if a shot is lacking wow factor I can't always put my finger on why. What would I do differently...? And as others have said - sometimes that's the best photo of a bad bunch that day and it's nice to be respectful of that.
Everyone is on here for different reasons. I look back on the first month and now see there are a lot of fillers. But that's ok - it got me to month three where I feel a little more creative and a little better able to deal with some new challenges.
Personally I'd like a little more criticism of my photos. There are a million different techniques that I'm not aware of. I will often miss something fundamental (like, you know, correct focus...) which could improve a shot. And I don't mind people saying so.
@phillyphotos Where do you go for the honest critique then?
@littlequeenie I ended up taking a class at a local community art center and talking with the instructor about some of my long term goals, also living in a bigger city three are occasional open critiques that professionals do around town so I attend then all. I process from film on paper for most of my work who out is a small group you can get comfortable with. We Also have a a few photo clubs. So for me it was more about getting out and finding local people to hang with.
I recently posted an out of focus shot and ask for opinions on what I might have done to parent the focus problems. I got some advice, but when I posted the same picture in the Critique forum I got the answers I was looking for.
@caseyrybeck Welcome to 365. I am just starting my 5th year here and here are my two cents: this is not the kind of site where it is appropriate to give unsolicited critiques. It is the friendliest photographic site on the web. If people you follow ask for critique, then that is fine. Otherwise, I recommend not giving unsolicited advice.
I actually wrote all this before but for some reason it hasn't posted. My point was I have found the same thing, lovely comments are lovely but I'm also a fan of robust discussion and critique (on my images or others'). I too wonder if I'm over-stepping to offer critique (or just ask a question) when I think it's warranted (and I believe I always do it nicely), and also find it's hard to get critique when I want it. For a while (at someone's suggestion) I was putting CW (critique welcome) in the description of every image, but I'm not sure it made a difference and I kept forgetting to do it anyway. Have also asked for specific feedback on occasion and again still find it hard to get a decent discussion going. Maybe a comment or two.
Anyways, welcome to 365, following and looking forward to some lively commentary :)
Seems to me that it is fairly obvious which photos people really like. A good one gets lots of comments and favs and sometimes ends up on the popular page..... a not so good one doesn't. I always see a lack of engagement as a cue to have a good look at that photo and work out for myself what is wrong with it.
I think this is a very supportive and friendly site and being negative about other peoples work when they haven't asked for a critique is not really good form and will inevitable lead to bad feeling and acrimonious exchanges.
There are lots of other places you can post a photo if you want an honest critique.
However, if someone asks for a critique on here, then that's fair enough.
I welcome tips on how someone might have captured a shot differently or "flaws" in the technique for the picture -- similarly I like suggestions on processing technique -- as long as the commenter understands that sometime "imperfect" pictures are trying to capture something else (mood, view, etc.) . Thanks for all your ocmments.
I agree 100% with what @swillinbillyflynn said - the reactions to an image are a good enough barometer for me on whether other people like it... but then again I'm not in this for the favs and comments (it ain't Facebook folks :P), so really, even if an image I like gets no feedback at all, I'm still going to like it if I liked it to begin with.
I make other kinds of art too, and I love looking at other people's work - and I would never dream of telling someone what I didn't like about a painting they'd made, or how they could improve it, so why do it with a photograph, unless someone has expressly asked for advice and I felt I had some that could help them. Art is subjective, if you like it, then it's good.
Personally, if I'm looking for tips on a certain technique, then I will include that when I'm posting.... and I wouldn't critique anything without being asked.
I had a guy tell me a few of my pics looked "paint by color". Stung for two seconds then I asked for advice/explanation. Which he did and that extra advice was helpful. I'll take any helpful critique.
I also completely agree with what @swillinbillyflynn said and @m2016 too. I think that if you do want constructive criticism, ask in your description or post your photo in a "Discussions: Critique" post.
the tag is critique-me you can try using this on your photos. Giving a critique sandwhich is a good way to do it nicely, one positive comment, then a helpfully worded critique of some kind, enclosed in encouragement! usually goes down well. personally i prefer comments that challenge me rather than just the ooos and aaaahs !
I HATE this thread. Hahahaa...just kidding. Good question and great responses. I think it's fine, but be gentle. Not Your photo sucks, why are you even on this site.
I agree with people who have said "ask for critique if you want it", either in your profile, on individual photos or in a critique discussion. Not everyone on this site is here to improve their photography - some people are here just to keep a record of their year and some are here for the social side of the site. Therefore, giving bad feedback or criticism to them wouldn't be welcome. In fact, I think it could create quite bad feeling which would be such a shame because it's a very friendly and supportive place to be.
Great thread! Many good ideas too. I'd also add...
1. Consider asking for specific areas for feedback when inviting review of your image so the viewers have a sense of what you are trying to improve.
2. Consider responding to others photos that are strong by sharing what you specifically like -- saying 'wonderful shot' is not as helpful as explaining what made it wonderful for you as viewer.
3. Consider posting two different approaches to the same subject or two different ways of processing, explain what you were thinking in each, and invite feedback that would let you know which elicited the response you were going for.
One of the strengths of this site is encouraging people to get in the habit of photography by shooting daily, thinking about photography daily, reviewing others' work daily. A second strength is when you can find friends on the site who help you think differently about what you've done. We have a 6 person critique group and we were very active in responding to one another for well over a year. Even though more sporadic now, these are the people I turn to if I need advice. We found each other just through commenting and getting to know each others' work that way.
This has been an interesting read. After six months on the project, I feel in a bit of a dilemma about why I am doing it. I can see that the discipline of using the camera each day regardless of the perceived lack of subject matter is helping to improve my observation but I did join to improve my photography techniques and now realise a) that this takes a tremendous amount of time and skill and sometimes equipment (I don't have any of that beyond my pocket camera) and that there is a whole new language to learn. People's comments on this thread have been really helpful. Anyway Brett, I hope you get what you want out of the project and for what it is worth, I welcome critique - in terms I will understand - and if gentle enough not to shatter my low self-esteem!
It seems that unsolicited "negative" even "constructive" feedback is not really well received, so it's probably a bit dicey on the fly.
On the other side of the coin if you do want constructive, perhaps even "tough" feedback, you might proactively select someone, perhaps two or three, not more, folks whose work you really like and respect, search the "current" pages for a few days If you are new here, and ask for "mentor" feedback specifically. The "mentor" idea is occasionally broached here, but hasn't appeared popular lately. I find that if you specifically ask folks, people will often be happy to spend time and effort to help you out.
I ask for advice specifically or give a clue about what I might have been trying to achieve. For those I know who like a new perspective, I say "I wonder if..." but I don't give feedback to those who are not looking for it (for example, maybe the shot is more about capturing a moment and providing a nice narrative to go with it). Fortunately for me, I don't think I would care if someone said "rubbish" to my photos, but then again, I have never seen this happen here. I don't participate like I used to, but when I do comment, I try to point to what attracted me in the first place. If the poster was looking for improvements, then I'd give my two cents.
I have learned best from those photographers I admired-- and I asked them lots of questions for a couple of years (they were kind in their responses too).
This group in general has been extra cautious about giving constructive feedback or advice on how you could do better.Many photographers are at different levels of advancement so for some photographers they may not be ready to absorb all the advice at the advice at one time. Also photography is art - so not every will "get it" and it could just be a matter of personal taste.
However, when I first started I did receive more feedback - positives and areas of improvement and I am sooo grateful that they did. I remember the first time on this site posting something I was so proud of what I posted and another photographer suggested a few things to improve. At first I was taken back by it but once I got over my hurt feelings I thought about it and wow - I was able to go to the next level. This has happened to me several times.
With this group - if you want feedback you can mention when you post that you want true feedback on the photo - you could also post it in the critique board. I do think with feedback it may help to sandwich the suggested area of improvement with what you do like as well.
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There have certainly been times when I saw something that I wanted to comment about but have held back.
Anyone looking at my site should feel free to comment, one way or the other.
From my personal experience, my photos get better, when another photographer shares how they achieved a great image. Once someone explained how to do dual exposures after I asked about it in a comment. Or how to do light painting. Or post a link to a good tutorial. That in my eyes, is much more valuable.
I agree with Paula, it is all how you write it. I have never seen a comment that completely trashes a photo and hope it will stay that way. While I do want to become a better photographer, I don't want to feel berated. And we all know that there are those sh... days when nothing works, but you want to put something up to keep the 365 going.
In general though, even then, people will be very kind on this site.
As for critiquing others, if they don't ask, don't, unless you know them well.
For me, critique away. I love it. And have made my most growth that way. I joined a photo club for just that purpose. Once a month we have a judge come in and tell us all about how to make our photos better.
From personal experience I have found that by being interactive with others you pick up who is willing to give and receive feedback. Also agree that the word negative is not really the right expression, critique is much better. Since we are all individuals our likes and dislikes will differ.
On the other hand I think that people tend to stop and comment on photos they really do like, and that is one of the reasons for mostly positive comments..
I put in my information blurb that I am here to learn so the more criticism/ how to make it better I get, the happier I'll be but I find most people don't do that. Once in a blue moon I get a comment telling me they would have cropped it differently or something and I'm really appreciative. Also once in a blue moon, I say I feel a photo would have been better had A been done instead of B, but I'm not sure how it is received!
The place I do feel more inclined to add more comments is with the 'Get-pushed' challenge where a person is paired up with another for the week and issues personal challenges. I find that it is more personal, and therefore easier to make more direct comments.
I always start my feedback with a positive comment and then tactfully make a suggestion or constructive criticism.
I think that I feel more comfortable critiquing a person I have been following a long time, and have built up a bit of a relationship so I know their abilities and style and can therefore give that comment.
I would encourage you to get involved with the different themes, challenges, and discussions to build your network. You will then find people are more inclined to make that comment when you ask for it.
Everyone is on here for different reasons. I look back on the first month and now see there are a lot of fillers. But that's ok - it got me to month three where I feel a little more creative and a little better able to deal with some new challenges.
Personally I'd like a little more criticism of my photos. There are a million different techniques that I'm not aware of. I will often miss something fundamental (like, you know, correct focus...) which could improve a shot. And I don't mind people saying so.
@phillyphotos Where do you go for the honest critique then?
I actually wrote all this before but for some reason it hasn't posted. My point was I have found the same thing, lovely comments are lovely but I'm also a fan of robust discussion and critique (on my images or others'). I too wonder if I'm over-stepping to offer critique (or just ask a question) when I think it's warranted (and I believe I always do it nicely), and also find it's hard to get critique when I want it. For a while (at someone's suggestion) I was putting CW (critique welcome) in the description of every image, but I'm not sure it made a difference and I kept forgetting to do it anyway. Have also asked for specific feedback on occasion and again still find it hard to get a decent discussion going. Maybe a comment or two.
Anyways, welcome to 365, following and looking forward to some lively commentary :)
I think this is a very supportive and friendly site and being negative about other peoples work when they haven't asked for a critique is not really good form and will inevitable lead to bad feeling and acrimonious exchanges.
There are lots of other places you can post a photo if you want an honest critique.
However, if someone asks for a critique on here, then that's fair enough.
I make other kinds of art too, and I love looking at other people's work - and I would never dream of telling someone what I didn't like about a painting they'd made, or how they could improve it, so why do it with a photograph, unless someone has expressly asked for advice and I felt I had some that could help them. Art is subjective, if you like it, then it's good.
Personally, if I'm looking for tips on a certain technique, then I will include that when I'm posting.... and I wouldn't critique anything without being asked.
1. Consider asking for specific areas for feedback when inviting review of your image so the viewers have a sense of what you are trying to improve.
2. Consider responding to others photos that are strong by sharing what you specifically like -- saying 'wonderful shot' is not as helpful as explaining what made it wonderful for you as viewer.
3. Consider posting two different approaches to the same subject or two different ways of processing, explain what you were thinking in each, and invite feedback that would let you know which elicited the response you were going for.
One of the strengths of this site is encouraging people to get in the habit of photography by shooting daily, thinking about photography daily, reviewing others' work daily. A second strength is when you can find friends on the site who help you think differently about what you've done. We have a 6 person critique group and we were very active in responding to one another for well over a year. Even though more sporadic now, these are the people I turn to if I need advice. We found each other just through commenting and getting to know each others' work that way.
On the other side of the coin if you do want constructive, perhaps even "tough" feedback, you might proactively select someone, perhaps two or three, not more, folks whose work you really like and respect, search the "current" pages for a few days If you are new here, and ask for "mentor" feedback specifically. The "mentor" idea is occasionally broached here, but hasn't appeared popular lately. I find that if you specifically ask folks, people will often be happy to spend time and effort to help you out.
I ask for advice specifically or give a clue about what I might have been trying to achieve. For those I know who like a new perspective, I say "I wonder if..." but I don't give feedback to those who are not looking for it (for example, maybe the shot is more about capturing a moment and providing a nice narrative to go with it). Fortunately for me, I don't think I would care if someone said "rubbish" to my photos, but then again, I have never seen this happen here. I don't participate like I used to, but when I do comment, I try to point to what attracted me in the first place. If the poster was looking for improvements, then I'd give my two cents.
I have learned best from those photographers I admired-- and I asked them lots of questions for a couple of years (they were kind in their responses too).
However, when I first started I did receive more feedback - positives and areas of improvement and I am sooo grateful that they did. I remember the first time on this site posting something I was so proud of what I posted and another photographer suggested a few things to improve. At first I was taken back by it but once I got over my hurt feelings I thought about it and wow - I was able to go to the next level. This has happened to me several times.
With this group - if you want feedback you can mention when you post that you want true feedback on the photo - you could also post it in the critique board. I do think with feedback it may help to sandwich the suggested area of improvement with what you do like as well.