I'm new to photography, and perhaps a little ignorant regarding the rules or ettiquette. Today was the second time since starting my 365 that I've been told I'm not allowed to take photos of my subject. The first time was on the street, outside, in downtown Chicago, out in public, getting photos of the traffic. The Traffic Management employees said I could not take their pictures (I was far from them, they were in the shot of the traffic on purpose, but not close enough to really see them in an identifiable way). Today I was getting a shot of all the variety of makeup at the store (so many great colors!), and the store employees told me I could not take a picture of the merchandise.
Both times, I quickly apologized and put my camera away... but I'm left wondering what rule I broke. I certainly don't want to be rude, and I would never take a close up of someone without their permission... but I guess I kind of figured that a shot of the public street was allowed, and I didn't realize a store would have a problem with a vague shot of their wares.
Since I'm new, I don't know... but did I do something "wrong"? Are there rules about which I should be aware? I really don't want to disgruntle folks. Is this just a matter of each individual situation, or am I naieve about what's OK and what's not?
Educate me, please, before I offend people all year long.
I know from working in retail that people taking shots of merchandise or whatnot may have an intent to steal it. That is just something we are told to watch for. And some stores have it written in their policies that we must report anyone to security that is taking ANY pictures in the store. Just steer clear of taking shots inside stores and you should be fine.
As far as the other situation... Not sure. IDK what traffic management would have against having their picture taken. It might just be a safety issue for their sake. Just to protect their employees. Or they were just being jerks.
I know for sure that in stores that its considered private property and also the copyright of the things they sell in the store.. they own copyrights of everything in the store....including pictures. i hope that kind of helps. I work in a retail store and not even employees can take pics while in the store. Though i don't know why you were told to stop taking pictures while you were on the street, never heard of that
With people I usually ask, cause some can become distressed about the situation, but as a rule you don't need a model release for non identifiable people so i would assume that means you don't need permission, but i ask anyway. As far as the store I'm not sure, I have not photographed in stores before but at nurseries. so many pretty flowers I can't resist, and I have never asked permission but have never been bothered so I'm not sure what the store's problem with your photographing was exactly. hope some of this helps.
I'm a news videographer, and the law (in Canada, at least) says that as long as you are on public property, you can photograph whatever you want. People have every right to ask you to not take their picture, and if you are a nice person, you'll stop (which seems to be what you are...) It's also best to not take pictures of children.
Stores, meanwhile, are not public property and they can make the rules. Most stores don't want you to take photos because you might be an employee of another company, or a shoplifter, or somehow trying to make their store look bad.
There have been several photographers arrested/hassled/questioned in the US since 9/11 over their photographing of federal buildings, subway stations, etc. But it is still your right to take photos on public property.
Here's an article on the topic that I found quite interesting:
I think it is just the Nanny state that western civilisation has become. Shame really. I lived for a while in a nearby "developing" nation where modern technology is exciting and the people there, both in the village and the professionals in the city would often beg for their photos to be taken, only so they could see their own image on the display. They loved it. It was a fantastic experience for an hobby photographer to get some portraiture experience!
It's just as bad here in the UK. I use a compact camera for public shots, people don't take so much notice if you are discrete. I'm amazed sometimes that nobody minds when members of the public take photo's with compacts or mobile phones, but get really twitchy when they see a DSLR or bridge camera.
With regards to retail, It costs nothing to ask and explain why before you start snapping away. I have a shop and as far as I'm concerned it's all about ettiquette. If you want a photo it's ok but ASK first. I WILL ask people to stop if they start snapping away without asking as I think it's rude.
If you are taking photos in a public place as long as you don't get in peoples faces it's ok. BUT again ask if you want a close up & why not show them the photo and offer to Email or post them a copy?
Most people will be fine but some will say no so just respect their wishes and move on to the next opportunity.
I live in Chicago, too. I have found that you are also not allowed to take photographs inside Ogilvie train station or in the lobbies of most of the buildings downtown. So just be sure to be extra sneaky about it. :)
Its everywhere, when it comes to businesses and things like that, they don't like you taking photos of their things or themselves. People think that they can be used in a negative way or, if you can make money off it, they'd rather you didn't.. I've found that even amusement parks tell you to put the camera away when you have a DSLR or something. Whereas stores don't want you to take photos at all, because you can use it for advertising purposes or to say something negative about the store. The street however, should be fine, so long as you don't have any recognizable shots of people, you have a right to be able to use any photos. Whereas with stores, businesses, etc. I recommended asking for permission first. You may find that sometimes they might actually allow you if you explain why you want a photo and/or simply just ask. Anything public you should be able to take a photo though.
I would agree with both of you, especially with @sharkeyshark for the children photography unless they are your own and with @pete21 for asking prior to. I found that if I ask the manager and explain this is what I'm doing or trying to do and I offer to show him the results... most managements will give you the go at it (Mind you I've not gone into a WalMart type of store eh, the crowd would think I'm nuts lol)
I have never been hassled about my picture taking - strangely enough, only in third world countries. The Masai go berserk if you take a picture without their permission...and some passing of cash.....and in Turkey I kept trying to take a picture of camels but the owners wanted me to pay for the picture. Thank goodness for zoom lens.....hehehe! I do understand that it can be considered quite an afront to take someone's picture without their permission, so I try to be sensitive to my subject's comfort and generally ask first.
@erikadee Make an image that says NO IMAGE and lock it as your first image on your memory cards. If somebody gives you trouble flip to the first image and show them your camera has no images. TRIX!
You've come across a topic that so, so many other photographers face eventually. I've faced this many times myself, and here is what I've found.
In the United States, you are protected as a photographer to shoot any photo you want in any public space. A public space is defined as that which is owned, operated, and maintained by the local or Federal government. So, that includes train stations, sidewalks, beaches, streets, and government buildings. Certain areas such as courthouses will have signs posted that read "No photos, no cellphones" and such.
As long as you are in a public space, you can take a photo of anything you want. You can snap photos of people's faces, of city employees, of police officers, anything. And if anyone asks you to stop or leave, well that's when you have to decide if it's worth a fight or not. I, for one, would have told the Traffic Management employees that I am a photographer just shooting some street scenes and would have kept right on doing my thing. Even if they called the police, a police officer must have a warrant from a judge to touch your camera and if they arrest you, you fall under the protection of free speech guaranteed to all journalists.
Now, having said that, I have NEVER gotten that far. One time in my life I was out shooting photos on The Boardwalk in Myrtle Beach with hundreds of people in the frame and one father started complaining because I got a photo of his child. The father demanded I erase my entire memory card and I refused. He waved down a nearby police officer. The police officer asked what I was doing, but once I explained he agreed I was doing nothing illegal. The father stormed off and I told the officer I was moving along now. That's the closest to a problem I've ever come.
As for retail spaces, these are considered privately owned and so you cannot take photos without permission. I've found this very difficult when freelancing for newspapers because some managers don't want photos of their customers inside the store.
Thanks for this informative post. @erikadee. I'm in Chicago too but I've not yet really tried taking photos inside anywhere except the building where I work and I wasn't stopped there - although maybe it's because the security guards see me everyday.
The traffic people had no right to tell you not to do that, photography is allowed in the public domain (hence why you can't really do much if someone comes up and takes your photo as you're walking down a public sidewalk, unless they use it to slander you and you can prove it and you really wanna go to court over it).
Retail stores are a bit different because they're private property, UNLESS you are photographing them while standing on public property. You just gotta be sneaky if you're doing stuff in stores... I've walked around with a huge set up before, and just snuck photos. http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf Good link provided by a lawyer in the U.S.
@hmgphotos - I'd say the traffic people were within their rights to tell you not to shoot, since they have their freedom of speech. Just as long as what they say doesn't create a clear and present danger, their first amendment rights allows them to lie to you. But you'd be well within your rights to tell them to F off and continue shooting.
I've found most conflict is easily resolved by just stating you're taking a photography class and the subject this week is ____ so do you mind if I take photos of ____. Which for me is true for the most part.
@sudweeks Yeah, I guess that is what I was trying to say. They can tell you anything they want, but they don't have the right to make you put away your camera.
Ha! Yes, Kerri26 and I work in the same building in downtown Chicago and take the Metra out of Ogilvie station, and we've both been stopped many times and told to put away our cameras. With 911...I think many places have gotten more skittish about shooting the insides of their buildings. Like Kerri has said...I guess you have to become more creative (and sneakier). Ha!
Thanks to everyone for your thoughtful and informative replies. I immediately understood why retail was kind of a grey area... I guess since I knew my intentions were harmless, it just didn't occur to me that others might not feel the same way.
I will absolutely always ask permission first going forward, as truly, the last thing I want to do is be rude.
Thanks also for the links to the articles, very useful info! And the idea about the "no image" image... tricky... ;)
Thanks again, I really appreciate everyone's thoughts on the matter.
Best,
Erika
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As far as the other situation... Not sure. IDK what traffic management would have against having their picture taken. It might just be a safety issue for their sake. Just to protect their employees. Or they were just being jerks.
I'm a news videographer, and the law (in Canada, at least) says that as long as you are on public property, you can photograph whatever you want. People have every right to ask you to not take their picture, and if you are a nice person, you'll stop (which seems to be what you are...) It's also best to not take pictures of children.
Stores, meanwhile, are not public property and they can make the rules. Most stores don't want you to take photos because you might be an employee of another company, or a shoplifter, or somehow trying to make their store look bad.
There have been several photographers arrested/hassled/questioned in the US since 9/11 over their photographing of federal buildings, subway stations, etc. But it is still your right to take photos on public property.
Here's an article on the topic that I found quite interesting:
http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/18/you-can-photograph-that-federal-building/
If you are taking photos in a public place as long as you don't get in peoples faces it's ok. BUT again ask if you want a close up & why not show them the photo and offer to Email or post them a copy?
Most people will be fine but some will say no so just respect their wishes and move on to the next opportunity.
http://www.beyondmegapixels.com/2011/01/photography-and-the-law/
There is a link as well w/in the article with a flier you can download.
http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm
In the article they refer to lawyers that they have spoken to.
In the United States, you are protected as a photographer to shoot any photo you want in any public space. A public space is defined as that which is owned, operated, and maintained by the local or Federal government. So, that includes train stations, sidewalks, beaches, streets, and government buildings. Certain areas such as courthouses will have signs posted that read "No photos, no cellphones" and such.
As long as you are in a public space, you can take a photo of anything you want. You can snap photos of people's faces, of city employees, of police officers, anything. And if anyone asks you to stop or leave, well that's when you have to decide if it's worth a fight or not. I, for one, would have told the Traffic Management employees that I am a photographer just shooting some street scenes and would have kept right on doing my thing. Even if they called the police, a police officer must have a warrant from a judge to touch your camera and if they arrest you, you fall under the protection of free speech guaranteed to all journalists.
Now, having said that, I have NEVER gotten that far. One time in my life I was out shooting photos on The Boardwalk in Myrtle Beach with hundreds of people in the frame and one father started complaining because I got a photo of his child. The father demanded I erase my entire memory card and I refused. He waved down a nearby police officer. The police officer asked what I was doing, but once I explained he agreed I was doing nothing illegal. The father stormed off and I told the officer I was moving along now. That's the closest to a problem I've ever come.
As for retail spaces, these are considered privately owned and so you cannot take photos without permission. I've found this very difficult when freelancing for newspapers because some managers don't want photos of their customers inside the store.
Now I'll be more discreet or ask first.
Retail stores are a bit different because they're private property, UNLESS you are photographing them while standing on public property. You just gotta be sneaky if you're doing stuff in stores... I've walked around with a huge set up before, and just snuck photos.
http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf Good link provided by a lawyer in the U.S.
I will absolutely always ask permission first going forward, as truly, the last thing I want to do is be rude.
Thanks also for the links to the articles, very useful info! And the idea about the "no image" image... tricky... ;)
Thanks again, I really appreciate everyone's thoughts on the matter.
Best,
Erika