With the Se7en project, of which I was a member, coming to an end yesterday, I have been thinking about a challenge to replace the 'push' that my weekly se7en post used to give me. That got me thinking about how photography has changed in recent years: it used to be that 20, 30 or 40 years ago if you wanted an 'enthusiasts camera' you bought either a 35mm rangefinder camera or a 35mm SLR, and chances are that in either case it would have come equipped with a 'standard' 50mm lens. So you loaded your choice of 35mm film, took 24 or 36 exposures and then sent your film off to a processing house for the next stage in the process... at some considerable cost. Ten days to a fortnight later, you got your 'snaps' back and, if you were anything like me, you were disappointed with the results. Some didn't 'come out' and the rest didn't seem to exactly tally with your memories of the scenes that you captured.
These days this second and vital part of the process is also handled by the photographer him or herself and this has led, I think, to some blurring of the roles of camera and processing engine. Often, and I plead guilty to this, decisions that should have been made in camera - composition, colour balance, exposure, etc. - get made in processing... such is the power of a raw image file. But I can't help thinking that this is rather sloppy technique - often we'll get away with it and get the final image we wanted... but sometimes we won't. So on balance I think it must be better to do what should be done in camera, in camera.
So I have decided that the month of September will be for me NF-SOOC-September. Every image I post in my main 365 album will be taken with a 50mm (or equivalent) lens and will be posted exactly as it came out of the camera. Yes I know that it will have been processed by the camera's internal processing engine but I need to get used to this standard result exactly the same as in the film days we had to get used to a standard mass-produced 6 x 4 print. I will do no external processing and no cropping and if I want to zoom in on an image, I'll have to do it with my feet!
So who's brave or mad enough (probably a bit of both) to join me in this adventure? You can play for the whole month - I hope some of you will do that - or just post the occasional image. Remember, JPEG as produced in camera and a 50mm lens. Remember also that a Nifty Fifty is only 50mm on a full frame camera: if you have a crop sensor camera like most of use, then the lens you need will be marked 30mm or 35mm for an APS-C camera and 25mm for a micro 4/3 sensor (Olympus and Panasonic). If you don't have a standard prime lens (why not?) but you would still like to join in, then set your zoom to 50, 35 or 25 as appropriate for your camera and shoot away.
Tag your post nf-sooc-sept and feel free to share your images on here to encourage us all.
Here's my first image - Little Pink Toadstools:
Good Luck everyone - I look forward to your joining me in the this little adventure and I promise you that all who participate will become better photographers as a result.
@zosimasy Great Charles - with the Canon's crop factor of 1.6, set your zoom at 31mm and you'll be good to go with the equivalent of a 50mm PoV. I look forward to sharing the month (or as much of it as you wish ) with you.
@northy I think using 'picture styles' is OK - I've chosen to use Landscape which uses some sharpening, some colour enhancement and some noise reduction but not to extremes... no doubt I'll also use monochrome at some stage during the month. What is off-limits for me are 'Scenes' modes: each person who decides to play will make their own decisions but the whole point as far as I am concerned is learning to deal with fixed parameters.
@vignouse interesting.... Why? I mean - I get that's the way it used to be, but those " fixed parameters" are really nothing more than random choices made for you at the factory... With user defined picture styles, you can decide on sharpening, contrast, saturation... And if going for monochrome, you can decide on filters and toners as well... And in terms of " the way things used to be", the masters did their own developing and printing and exerted all sorts of control at those points, no?
@northy I've perhaps explained myself badly: I agree totally with what you say and, indeed, I've said on here several times that SOOC is a meaningless concept. The only film photos that I ever felt happy about was when I used to do my own D & P in B & W and I learned how to get the image I wanted.
The whole point about this challenge for me is that I have become very comfortable with processing and I know what I can do with it. When I capture an image, I usually have a clear idea what I want the finished image to look like. What I capture therefore is just enough basic image to enable me to get my desired result in processing. Sometimes this doesn't work because I haven't taken everything into consideration, so this month is an exercise in capturing the final image at the point of pressing the shutter button and not finagling it later on the computer, and, yes, that does include taking into account the camera manufacturer's pre-programmed image manipulation.
@northy Some further thoughts - you've got me questioning my motivations, which is good. I always shoot in raw so I leave colour balance on 'Auto' as I can correct it in post; I tend to underexpose without being too precise in order to give myself lots of latitude; I often shoot large in order to give myself the maximum leeway in framing the final image... as just three examples. Whenever we run close to the wind, we risk a disaster so my NF-SOOC month will help me to learn to do the maximum in camera and not later in post. It's the 'decisive moment' thing - the image should be made by the pressing of the shutter with the desired scene in the viewfinder, not later in the computer by playing 'what if?'. Only my personal view of course... and at 3 am I need to stop commenting and go to bed!
I'm in.
I have always wrestled with the concept of SOOC versus post-processing, stating that a photographer should try to get it right in camera first, and then fix it later if needed.
SO ... I'd better put my money where my mouth is!
And, to top it off, I have been going mostly manual lately, so this is a natural progression for me.
Except - I am confused about the lens. I will be using a Nikkor 18-70 lens. Does this mean I set the zoom to 50 - and that is the right setting?
@vignouse In the "old" days, many enthusiasts developed and printed their own work and didn't send them out. And while developing of the negative roll was "standard," printing certainly wasn't, allowing significant "processing" in coming up with the final print. Indeed, there appears to be a good analogy between producing the negative/shooting RAW and making the print/post processing digital editing, that I think it is fallacious to say that the "old" days were SOOC as shot and so much different from today's digital world. Ansell Adams and the Westons wrote about the two stage process of "film" a lot, Adams especially considering the most complex part of his work the production of the final print. It's just that now with digital, that second stage is easily accessible to the masses.
But sorry, I won't be playing along SOOC with digital. The exercise holds little attraction for me. I might play along with @northy and tinker with the Picture Controls though, as impractical as I think even that exercise is. Oh, and you will remember to shoot jpeg and make sure no software manipulates them under the hood as you upload them? Even if that is handled, don't forget that Russ and 365 get hold of the image, re-sample and re-sharpen. At least that, and who knows what else goes along with his new improved process he has written about.
I will be experimenting with film for the next few months though. As well as continuing with my usual digital work. Last time I did "film" was with the "pocket cameras" of the 1970's, probably not even considered a real camera even then. I have purchased a Nikon N80 for $30 from eBay and will be learning how to shoot for the "negative" process of film rather than the "positive" process of digital cameras. Shoot for the shadows on film rather than shoot for the highlights with digital one of the main ones. And to find out first hand find out about film brands rather than read about them and use digital processing to simulate them, color and B/W. Printing will be handled by my camera shop lab, but they say they are prepared to work with me and just not print SFN (straight from the negative, I just invented the term, perhaps there is a standard one?). We'll see.
@tahoemb Well, 50mm on your Canon will have the same angle of view as an 80mm has on 35mm film format and "full frame." x1.6 crop factor for Canon. No idea what Richard's rules are though.
@farmreporter Set your DX 18-70 to 33mm on your APS-C Nikon camera and you will have the same angle of view as a 50mm lens on a 35mm or FX camera. The Nikon crop factor is x1.5.
@tahoemb Sure you can, but as Frank has said, your 50mm lens on your camera will have the same PoV as an 80mm on a full-frame camera so you will have a short telephoto effect. The learning and experience that will come from using a fixed focal length for a month will be just as valid using a short telephoto as a 'nifty-fifty'. Welcome aboard!
@frankhymus Hello Frank and thanks for your comments. I really wasn't trying to make any great sweeping statement about digital photography and the role of processing - just making some personal observations that I thought might find a resonance with others.
My Dad showed me how to contact print B&W negatives when I was about 10 years old and later I got an enlarger. Although I've developed slide film, I've never tried colour printing - the cost and the need for precise temperature control were the main reasons. I believe however that the vast majority of people on 365, will have sent their films for processing (if in fact they have any experience of film) and it's this audience that I was writing for.
This was supposed to be fun, so let me state again, this exercise is for anyone who thinks that they might benefit from the discipline of making images using only a fixed focal length lens and foregoing any post camera manipulation for one month or a part of it. I'm not claiming any purity of purpose here just putting the focus (ouch!) on a different part of the digital photographic process for a while.
@vignouse@northy@frankhymus I think it's a great idea. Imposing even quite arbitrary constraints can be a spur to creativity plus this will help me learn about the limits of my camera. So I'm in. But can I venture a heresy?... Are fifties really so nifty? I have a 35mm on a crop sensor. I have to admit it's my least favourite lens. I find it lacks the impact of either my 50mm (75mm efl) or the wider angles from my humble kit zoom. So it will probably be good for me to wrestle with the 35mm for a while...
@frankhymus@vignouse Thank you, Richard and Frank. I am still a little confused but I guess that's partly why I'm working on things in 365. I will just begin and hopefully things will become clearer to me. I really appreciate all your help.
@tahoemb Hi MB. Let's see if I can help just a little.
It's all about the ANGLE that you can view on the one frame. Or the amount of "stuff" (real techie term there) you can see on the frame. The "standard" 35mm camera frame, a "full frame" or FX (Nikon's term) camera has a sensor (the negative size for film cameras) that is classically 36mmx24mm. Your camera, and so called "cropped sensor" cameras (DX in Nikon speak) has a sensor that is 24x16, give or take a few millimeters.
You can see that the linear dimensions of the FX size is 1.5 times that of the DX, and so the angle that you can "see" with the same focal length lens will be 1.5 that of the smaller one. You can see 50% wider on an FX frame.
Since the "angle of view" is also (inversely) proportional to the focal length of the lens, you can, I hope, see where these "crop factors" come into play. Bottom line 50mm lens on an FX camera will "see" the same amount as a 33mm lens on a DX camera. Let's call it 35. :) These are, of course, not AREA measurements. The area of the FX frame is 1.5*1.5 more than the DX frame, more than twice as much.
BTW, the Canon cropped sensor cameras have a slightly smaller sensor, so the "crop factor" there is 1.6.
And don't be confused by all the mm measurements. The 35mm "frame size" has no connection with the 35mm of the "focal length" of certain lenses. When I was a newbie, this confused me for weeks!
@jasperc@frankhymus I'm with you Jasper, I hardly ever use this focal length for the reasons you mention and yet in the early days of 35mm photography this was the only lens you got as it's supposed to have the same PoV as the human eye - not strictly true, the human eye is nearer to 42mm. Anyway, everyone knows that for medicine to do you any good, it has to taste nasty so I'm going with a 'Nifty Fifty' or it's equivalent!
@vignouse@jasperc Ah, the human eye argument. It is really difficult to decide exactly what the "angle of view" is of the hum eye. First do you look to one eye, or do you look to that generated from both? The answer is quite different. Second, even given the field of view is settled, probably only 20% of that is in sharp focus at any particular moment in time. Why it might appear not to be so, that is because the eyes are forever flitting across the image from one point of interest to the next, readjusting focus on the go, even if the head is not moved. It is the brain that then puts all this together and we appear to "see" across the whole field sharply. Or we convince ourselves that it is so.
@frankhymus@jasperc The thing that bugs me is that we only see what interests us and we process out the rest... the camera however, sees everything. Been the ruin of many a promising image that ;-)
@vignouse For sure! Ever noticed how you have misplaced something, and you look everywhere for it but can't find it? And it shows up right under you nose for the whole world to see? You weren't expecting to see it there, so the brain "skipped over" it just like it knew it couldn't possibly be that easy to find.
@frankhymus@vignouse - just to be clear, i am a complete control freak... and i am 100% behind the concept of getting as much right as possible "in camera"... so while i definitely prefer to shoot RAW and have the option of editing to the max in post, i am not opposed to learning ways i can control the settings for JPEG shooting... mostly just so i know... partly because it gives me the ability to respond to SOOC challenges with some flair, and partly because there are rare occasions when i'm just trying to document a day of something and don't want to fuss with post (but this is REALLY rare as Lightroom makes post pretty darned easy)...
the reason i was asking the question in the first place was because i really resist giving up control for no reason... shooting SOOC using "factory settings" makes no sense to me... but then so does shooting completely blind for the sake of shooting completely blind... or deciding that you only get to take one picture each day, and only one... i have no issue with extreme challenges, just the ones that involve giving up control because it isn't clear to me what the point of the exercise is...
Hi Richard,
It's funny you mentioned a nifty fifty lens because I have been hearing about it on this site and not quite understanding what it is. So I am interested in giving it a try.
I have a 90mm Tamron 2.8 that I bought for my Pentax K-x for macro shots but I don't use it for anything else.
I was considering buying a 50 lens for my camera but wondered if it would be just duplicating my 90mm lens?
I have alot to learn about crop factors, someone told me my Pentax is a 1.5 crop factor, so if I had my 135 zoom lens on my camera what would I set my zoom at?
@northy@frankhymus OK Northy - I understand better the reason for your question now, thank you for clarifying. I am two-thirds of the way through my project and I haven't posted a single image that hasn't been processed by me to a greater or lesser extent, so I am a firm proponent of image manipulation.
This is first and foremost a personal challenge and it's about skill acquisition at the point of image capture. Let me give you a few examples as I see it:-
- If I learn to frame my shot perfectly in camera, I won't have to crop in post which will leave me with a higher quality final image - we buy high resolution cameras and then throw half the pixels away in the crop.
- If I get the exposure spot on in the camera then I won't risk burned-out highlights or noise when I boost underexposed shadow areas to bring out the detail.
- Shooting with a fixed focal length will push me to really explore all possible points of view rather than just playing with the zoom until it looks nice in the viewfinder and then pressing the shutter button. For this personal challenge, I actually bought an extra Nikon body - a cheap D5100 from a seller in Hong Kong - expressly because it has a variable position monitoring screen - my first two images were taken with the camera resting on the ground.
OK - you get my drift. I'm not giving away control... I'm trying to acquire skills that will enable me to exert even more control over my images. All roads lead to Rome they say...
@vignouse
so are we still tagging photos? To be honest I want to learn to do most of the work in-camera, because I hate sitting at a computer desk working on photos.
@radiogirl Hey, glad you're interested in joining us. A 50mm lens on your 1.5 x crop sensor camera has an equivalent focal length of 75mm, so good for things like portraits. Prime lenses are usually higher quality, faster and cheaper than zoom lenses because they are easier to make, all good qualities but a fixed focal length also has its drawbacks. Before buying one, set your zoom to the equivalent focal length and shoot for a few days to see if the focal length suits your style of photography.
This challenge will give you the opportunity to try out a fixed focal length - set your zoom to 33mm (35mm may be marked and that would be close enough) and you'll effectively have a Nifty-Fifty on your camera although a real one would give you extra advantages. Good Luck - I look forward to seeing how you get on.
@zosimasy Yes Charles - tag all images you post for this challenge with nf-sooc-sept and by going to this tag you will be able to see all your own images and everyone else's too.
@vignouse yup, just did my first one. What a challenge, getting the photo to come out right with minimal editing (I had to crop that one, but otherwise it's all I did, besides scale it down). I'll have to remember to reset the image size on my camera to small.
@zosimasy I'm still shooting at maximum quality and reducing the size before posting but you could post the full size image and 365 will resize it, I wouldn't want to go overboard with this SOOC thing ;-)
@northy That's why I like your challenge idea to at least operate with adjusted Picture Controls/Styles and not be tied to "factory defaults" of the standard control. At least consciously know what you are doing if you really must SOOC it.
@frankhymus Frank, I really enjoyed your explanation. It's making more sense to me now. My understanding is that I will get less of the scene in my shot than someone who has a full frame camera using the same mm number since my camera "crops" the photos. Is that right? I see what you mean when I look at the properties of my photos and the "focal length in 35mm film" is 79.8mm when I use my 50mm lens. So, I put my 18-135 lens on the camera and moved it around and took shots until I found the 35mm film size in the properties which was actually 22mm. So, now my question is - is this challenge more authentic if I use the 35mm equivalent? Or do I go ahead and use the 50mm lens and the challenge is to just "get it right" without any processing, and it doesn't really matter what the mm size is? I know I probably sound like I'm taking this too seriously but I really want to figure out what I'm trying to learn here. Also, if I use the 50mm lens, the lens focuses for me. If I use the 35mm equivalent the camera doesn't automatically focus. So, now are you confused? :)
@tahoemb Well yes to the fact that you are seeing less of the scene than a full frame or 35mm frame would.
Later, perhaps you are mixing the 35mm "frame size" or "film size" (which is classically 36x24) and a focal length of 35mm? Richard is talking about shooting with a "standard" 50mm focal length lens on a 35mm film size, which in early cameras, certainly those used by Ansell Adams and the Westons and other old time masters of the 20th century, came fixed on the camera.
So if you want to follow closely Richard's challenge, dial in a focal length of 31mm (31x1.6 is 49.6 close enough to 50) on your Canon and you'll be there.
@tahoemb No, you are trying to get to an "equivalent" 35mm film size (actually 36x24) with a 50mm lens with your T5i. So with your (fixed) film size of 22.5x15, the size of your Canon sensor, you need a 31mm focal length lens. Sorry for all the millimeter stuff used in two different ways.
@frankhymus Ok, so I cannot get a 35mm film size using my 50mm lens because I have a crop sensor camera. I am trying to get to 35mm focal length so I will have to use my other lens at around 31mm?
@frankhymus So, I just reread your prior post about the ANGLE and "the lightbulb went on"! I understand now that I have to shoot at 35mm in order to be comparable to the 50mm lens on a full frame camera. Right?
Thanks for your perseverance, Frank. You're a wealth of information. It just takes this amateur a while for it all to sink in.
Hey!! This is cool!! I'm not sure that I can pull one off every day, but I will definitely do it! It's true. It's so easy for us to just go "fix" it the way we want. It's worth it to try it the other way - makes you work harder to take a great photo without depending so much on processing. Intimidating!! LOL I like it! Will tag anything I do. Thanks for a great idea!!!!! @vignouse
@cindyloo Excellent Cindy, thanks for joining us - I look forward to seeing your results but more importantly, your observations because this challenge is more about learning than producing great pictures.
@vignouse I like your idea. I learned creative photography in the early 1970's on a Miranda Sensorex 35 mm film SLR and a 50 mm lens. I shot mostly b&w then as it was less expensive and I was a poor kid. Now, my favorite combination to shoot with is my crop sensor Nikon DSLR and 35 mm prime lens, which is as close as I can get to the Miranda. I'll try to post some SOOC shots with that combination in September.
@vignouse what a wealth of knowledge. I am undecided, not too sure if it's beyond my ability but I might at least learn something by giving it a go. I will have to forgo my 50mm (I also have a cropped sensor) and use my kit lens at 31 ish mm if I have this right?
I will at least look forward to seeing your shots. Thank you for em parting some wisdom on us too, thanks to @frankhymus as well. I have hopefully got more understanding of my sensor and crop factors now.
@karlow75 Hi Kane and welcome aboard. Yes if you want to be able to compare your images directly with others on the challenge, then you will need to set your zoom lens to 33mm for your Nikon but hey, we're not going to be pernickety down to the last mm here! That said, I think there's much to be learned about the opportunities offered by shooting with the limited DoF of a wide-open fast prime lens, so might also want to use your 50mm, simply remembering that it will have an effective focal length of 75mm and so will behave like a short telephoto on your Nikon D3100. Whatever you decide to do, don't forget to have some fun!
So, I may be in - definitely interested and will give it a go. Perhaps it will help me understand all the numbers better, crop sensors, etc. I have a Nikon 3100. I was hoping to use my new 50 mm lens, but according to what I can find out about my camera that puts me at about 80 mm. I guess to be officially in I would use my 18-55 mm lens and set it around 31 mm. Perhaps I will even challenge myself using both (entering only the "official" one) and put my other shot in another album.
@linah That's good news Linda - as far as focal length is concerned I'm happy that you use either, just make it clear in your description what effective focal length you are using for a particular shot so that other participants will have a basis for comparison. Good luck...
Richard this sounds like something that might help get me going again! I posted yesterday I was struggling with finding things to shoot other than flowers. I don't think I'll make a full month but I'll aim for a week... starting tomorrow.
I'm going to use my 35mm on my nex7 which has a 1.5 crop factor.
Thanks for the challange!
@hinkkd I so know where you're coming from Kathleen and I hope this challenge will help you to find your 'phojo' again... do just what you feel comfortable with. I'm expecting to post some Nex6 or Nex7 shots, but in my case the lens will be the Sigma 30mm as I don't yet have the Sony 35mm prime. I look forward to seeing what you come up with...
@vignouse thank you Richard - I am honestly not technical at all - wish I was but I am trying to learn - I tend to do things spontaneously and as I think I saw you say allow for post processing - which I also feel my way through
@vignouse Hi Richard, thanks for the challenge. I can't comment on the technical aspects, but this is a great challenge for a beginner like me. I was getting wrapped up in photoshopping, which I know nothing about (yet!). Your challenge gets me to concentrate more on camera settings and composition. I am open to critique if anyone has the inclination. :)
@vignouse Hi Richard, I have a canon powershot sx40 hs that I like to use, do you know what the crop factor is for this camera so I can use it for the challenge, and what focal length I should use.
Thanks
@radiogirl Hi Kathy - the crop factor for this camera is 5.6 so you would need to set a focal length of 8.9mm to have the equivalent field of view of a 50mm lens on a FF camera.. Another way of looking at this is, at its widest the lens has the same field of view as a 24mm lens... so you need to set a 2 x zoom ratio. Hope this helps.
I think I'll stop reading the questions and answers because I thought I understood exactly what you meant when I read your original challenge but now I'm so confused. So I'll use my nifty 50 on my Canon 60D and forget about all the math and see what happens.
@catwoman2 I thought the original challenge and the reasons for it were fairly clear but you have to meet people where they are I guess. With the Canon's 1.6 crop factor 31mm is equivalent to a so-called 'nifty-fifty' and your 50mm will act as an 80mm short telephoto.
None of this matters at all - go ahead and use that lens because, as I have said several times, the learning comes from the discipline of using the same fixed focal length for every image. Yes the images will be different if the focal length is different but that is a secondary consideration. The important thing is to learn... and have fun!
@vignouse Hi RIchard, here is my update on the challenge: I shot two classic car shows over the weekend and may have enough SOOC material to last all of Septmeber. So I am totally in starting with tomorrow. Everything will be SOOC with my Nikon D3100 (crop sensor) and my 35mm prime (full frame equivalent is 50 mm).
@vignouse Sorry I'm late.I've only just caught up with this challenge for some reason. I would like to give it a go. I've read all this about three times but not sure my aged brain had grasped it correctly. So I have Nikon D3200 with 18-55 kit lens. The crop factor is 1.5 so if I set it to about 33mm am I on the right track?
I tried to search for nf-sooc-sept tag to see what everyone else is coming up with and only get the tag page and it's not one of the options? Any suggestions?
@psmoore I'm not a navigation expert for this site but there are 4 pages of images already for this tag. Go to any one of my images this month; look for the tag in the tags field; click and hold on the tag and then choose 'open'... have fun browsing - there are some great images there already. This may not be THE way... but it will get you there.
@vignouse Hi Richard I figured out how to set my digital zoom to 2x, this gives me 49.3 mm when I set my focal length at its widest, 24mm.
I find this easier to set, so is this the correct setting?
@radiogirl That's spot on Kathy, using the digital zoom will result in a loss of quality but as you are not cropping the image, results using this setting should be acceptable. Have fun...
@vignouse thanks Richard.......oh I didn't realize the 2x zoom would result in a loss of quality.........I guess it will have to do for the canon until I can figure out how to get the focal length to 9mm.
I'm really learning more about my cameras through this challenge..........thank you for starting this.
Easy for me as my hoot shop broke a few weeks ago and I have no option but to take SOOC. It has made me really focus on getting it right first time. I am not as talented as many her and cannot begin to understand all the numbers talked about re lens number and picture size... I just take what I like. :-) I shall go and tag my last few September photos and maybe put one on here.
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I'll use a 30mm lens on a APS-C camera.
The whole point about this challenge for me is that I have become very comfortable with processing and I know what I can do with it. When I capture an image, I usually have a clear idea what I want the finished image to look like. What I capture therefore is just enough basic image to enable me to get my desired result in processing. Sometimes this doesn't work because I haven't taken everything into consideration, so this month is an exercise in capturing the final image at the point of pressing the shutter button and not finagling it later on the computer, and, yes, that does include taking into account the camera manufacturer's pre-programmed image manipulation.
Does this explain my motivations better?
I have always wrestled with the concept of SOOC versus post-processing, stating that a photographer should try to get it right in camera first, and then fix it later if needed.
SO ... I'd better put my money where my mouth is!
And, to top it off, I have been going mostly manual lately, so this is a natural progression for me.
Except - I am confused about the lens. I will be using a Nikkor 18-70 lens. Does this mean I set the zoom to 50 - and that is the right setting?
But sorry, I won't be playing along SOOC with digital. The exercise holds little attraction for me. I might play along with @northy and tinker with the Picture Controls though, as impractical as I think even that exercise is. Oh, and you will remember to shoot jpeg and make sure no software manipulates them under the hood as you upload them? Even if that is handled, don't forget that Russ and 365 get hold of the image, re-sample and re-sharpen. At least that, and who knows what else goes along with his new improved process he has written about.
I will be experimenting with film for the next few months though. As well as continuing with my usual digital work. Last time I did "film" was with the "pocket cameras" of the 1970's, probably not even considered a real camera even then. I have purchased a Nikon N80 for $30 from eBay and will be learning how to shoot for the "negative" process of film rather than the "positive" process of digital cameras. Shoot for the shadows on film rather than shoot for the highlights with digital one of the main ones. And to find out first hand find out about film brands rather than read about them and use digital processing to simulate them, color and B/W. Printing will be handled by my camera shop lab, but they say they are prepared to work with me and just not print SFN (straight from the negative, I just invented the term, perhaps there is a standard one?). We'll see.
My Dad showed me how to contact print B&W negatives when I was about 10 years old and later I got an enlarger. Although I've developed slide film, I've never tried colour printing - the cost and the need for precise temperature control were the main reasons. I believe however that the vast majority of people on 365, will have sent their films for processing (if in fact they have any experience of film) and it's this audience that I was writing for.
This was supposed to be fun, so let me state again, this exercise is for anyone who thinks that they might benefit from the discipline of making images using only a fixed focal length lens and foregoing any post camera manipulation for one month or a part of it. I'm not claiming any purity of purpose here just putting the focus (ouch!) on a different part of the digital photographic process for a while.
It's all about the ANGLE that you can view on the one frame. Or the amount of "stuff" (real techie term there) you can see on the frame. The "standard" 35mm camera frame, a "full frame" or FX (Nikon's term) camera has a sensor (the negative size for film cameras) that is classically 36mmx24mm. Your camera, and so called "cropped sensor" cameras (DX in Nikon speak) has a sensor that is 24x16, give or take a few millimeters.
You can see that the linear dimensions of the FX size is 1.5 times that of the DX, and so the angle that you can "see" with the same focal length lens will be 1.5 that of the smaller one. You can see 50% wider on an FX frame.
Since the "angle of view" is also (inversely) proportional to the focal length of the lens, you can, I hope, see where these "crop factors" come into play. Bottom line 50mm lens on an FX camera will "see" the same amount as a 33mm lens on a DX camera. Let's call it 35. :) These are, of course, not AREA measurements. The area of the FX frame is 1.5*1.5 more than the DX frame, more than twice as much.
BTW, the Canon cropped sensor cameras have a slightly smaller sensor, so the "crop factor" there is 1.6.
And don't be confused by all the mm measurements. The 35mm "frame size" has no connection with the 35mm of the "focal length" of certain lenses. When I was a newbie, this confused me for weeks!
All the best.
the reason i was asking the question in the first place was because i really resist giving up control for no reason... shooting SOOC using "factory settings" makes no sense to me... but then so does shooting completely blind for the sake of shooting completely blind... or deciding that you only get to take one picture each day, and only one... i have no issue with extreme challenges, just the ones that involve giving up control because it isn't clear to me what the point of the exercise is...
It's funny you mentioned a nifty fifty lens because I have been hearing about it on this site and not quite understanding what it is. So I am interested in giving it a try.
I have a 90mm Tamron 2.8 that I bought for my Pentax K-x for macro shots but I don't use it for anything else.
I was considering buying a 50 lens for my camera but wondered if it would be just duplicating my 90mm lens?
I have alot to learn about crop factors, someone told me my Pentax is a 1.5 crop factor, so if I had my 135 zoom lens on my camera what would I set my zoom at?
This is first and foremost a personal challenge and it's about skill acquisition at the point of image capture. Let me give you a few examples as I see it:-
- If I learn to frame my shot perfectly in camera, I won't have to crop in post which will leave me with a higher quality final image - we buy high resolution cameras and then throw half the pixels away in the crop.
- If I get the exposure spot on in the camera then I won't risk burned-out highlights or noise when I boost underexposed shadow areas to bring out the detail.
- Shooting with a fixed focal length will push me to really explore all possible points of view rather than just playing with the zoom until it looks nice in the viewfinder and then pressing the shutter button. For this personal challenge, I actually bought an extra Nikon body - a cheap D5100 from a seller in Hong Kong - expressly because it has a variable position monitoring screen - my first two images were taken with the camera resting on the ground.
OK - you get my drift. I'm not giving away control... I'm trying to acquire skills that will enable me to exert even more control over my images. All roads lead to Rome they say...
so are we still tagging photos? To be honest I want to learn to do most of the work in-camera, because I hate sitting at a computer desk working on photos.
This challenge will give you the opportunity to try out a fixed focal length - set your zoom to 33mm (35mm may be marked and that would be close enough) and you'll effectively have a Nifty-Fifty on your camera although a real one would give you extra advantages. Good Luck - I look forward to seeing how you get on.
Later, perhaps you are mixing the 35mm "frame size" or "film size" (which is classically 36x24) and a focal length of 35mm? Richard is talking about shooting with a "standard" 50mm focal length lens on a 35mm film size, which in early cameras, certainly those used by Ansell Adams and the Westons and other old time masters of the 20th century, came fixed on the camera.
So if you want to follow closely Richard's challenge, dial in a focal length of 31mm (31x1.6 is 49.6 close enough to 50) on your Canon and you'll be there.
Don't know about your AF issue though...
Thanks for your perseverance, Frank. You're a wealth of information. It just takes this amateur a while for it all to sink in.
I will at least look forward to seeing your shots. Thank you for em parting some wisdom on us too, thanks to @frankhymus as well. I have hopefully got more understanding of my sensor and crop factors now.
I'm going to use my 35mm on my nex7 which has a 1.5 crop factor.
Thanks for the challange!
Thanks
So your saying set my zoom lens to 24mm on my canon?
yesterdays I sharpened a little..todays 9/7 right from the camera.
None of this matters at all - go ahead and use that lens because, as I have said several times, the learning comes from the discipline of using the same fixed focal length for every image. Yes the images will be different if the focal length is different but that is a secondary consideration. The important thing is to learn... and have fun!
I find this easier to set, so is this the correct setting?
I'm really learning more about my cameras through this challenge..........thank you for starting this.