Carrying on a weekly critique theme started by @myhrhelper - the goal of this weekly thread is to help us hone our composition and editing skills, as well as improve our ability to provide helpful constructive criticism.
This weeks theme is "Black and White"
Rules:
Posting Rules:
(1) Post a photo that fits the weekly theme. It may be a photo you just took or a photo you took some time ago that you like.
(2) Do NOT post a photo if your feelings get hurt easily –
(3) Also keep in mind the comments are often someone’s opinion and their opinion may be different than yours so you may learn something or not.
(4) TAG your photo "plusminus-blackandwhite"
(5) TITLE the photo you post so others can refer to the title when commenting.
Commenting Rules:
(1) You will make a plus & minus comment on as MANY PHOTOS as you would like to comment on.
(2) Your comment must include at least One positive comment of what you specifically like about the photo (No More than THREE positive). Generic comments such as “great shot” does not count as a positive feedback.
(3) Your comment must ALSO INCLUDE One improvement suggestion (NO More than THREE suggestion of improvement per photo per person). Generic comments such as “I don’t like it” doesn’t count as a suggestion of improvement.
(4) YOU MAY NOT COMMENT ON A PHOTO IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO SAY A PLUS AND MINUS ON THE SAME PHOTO. In other words something positive AND an improvement suggestion.
(5) Keep comments to photos relatively brief
(6) REFER TO THE PHOTO TITLE if provided when commenting
example: @northy "the search for perspective continues" - I quite like the softness in the photo, but overall the photo has a slight heaviness about it towards the bottom. It feels like the details are there but are not coming out.
"boats"
well now @northy you might have kicked off with something we mere mortals might ever have a hope of shooting ourselves!
but undaunted, i shall say that i love the very straight, long lines here and the reflections and the leeeeeetle bit of negative space at the bottom
very hard to think of an improvement, but i guess i might have liked those three solid white boats to be the subjects, with no distractions at the extreme left and right
thanks for keeping this thread going. it's really helpful for me to consider a bit more carefully what i like about an image, and indeed what i maybe would have done differently, had i the skills
boats @northy The patterns and lines are awesome and you are the queen of black & white! The cropping of this shot is unusual and i think that is what makes this shot unique and interesting. I wonder about going the opposite as suggested and step back just a touch more to get the tops of the boats. But I realize that may be tricky since you really don't want to lose that negative space on the bottom which is what makes the shot so cool. But I LOVE the water and the overall look of the shot -
@myhrhelper tx Kathy... this particular shot was deliberately composed with the tops cut off... i do have others that have the top as well, and will likely post one at some point during the coming week... but for today chose this one because i have lots of the other in my project already... that said, i think the crop DOES need help, and i'm thinking maybe needs to be more extreme and cut off more of the top as well as the sides (per @pistache 's suggestion)
@myhrhelper love that leading line of the roof edge thingy - really draws the eye in... and the patterns created by this edge thing, as well as the windows in the two further buildings really creates interest... a couple things you might want to try are (1) play with the list or vignetting to darken up the left side and help draw the eye in along the line... and (2), up the contrast a smidgeon - i find that the tones in this image are a bit muddy (but you might not want to go by my eye as i have a tendency towards extremes which does not work for everybody)... incidentally, this pops really nicely on the black :)
Self evaluation.
+ The cloud line and the water line converging on the buildings.
- A wider angle lens would have been much better, but 28mm was the widest I could go that day. Also the shadow across the middle might have been handled differently, it's a little awkwardly cut off on the left frame.
@northy
Boats.
+ The wide gamut of tones, always a plus for me for almost every style of B&W.
- I find the top crop quite awkward, like cutting off legs. Also I would have gone for more sharpness and clarity on the highlighted boat bodies.
@myhrhelper
Building.
+ The long lines across the bottom half of the frame pointing to the opening of the street. Also the verticals are straight. Perfect.
- A little flat perhaps. I personally would have sharpened it generously, and if that resulted in bad edges that couldn't be removed with "blend if.." I'd have to resort to a small clone stamp brush to paint them away. Tedious but sometimes necessary. Also in line with @northy a wider gamut of tone to go with the sharpening.
@northy@frankhymus This was a shot while standing on a roof that only had about a 2 foot edge no guards - a bit scary but very serendipitous running into some friends who were antique collectors and they were moving out. The own saw our cameras and asked "do you want to go on the roof" how exciting to have that opportunity. You should have seen the old safe in the building and you operated the elevator with chains.
I am soaking both of your comments in I think you both have some good suggestions. I agree with everything you both said.
@frankhymus I find the repeated pattern in the water edge is similar to the clouds and is similar to the tops of the buildings is what makes this shot so interesting. I agree a bit on your self evaluation on the crop well sort of - I'm trying to sort that part out. I do wonder if a bit more buildings would have added to the composition - not sure on that. I do think a little more contrast using the white & black sliders in Lightroom may have added to the image.
@northy I like, the suggestion of their height made by the long reflections.
i think i agree with Frank that you could have made the most of the contrast between the smooth reflection and the real boats by retaining and even enhancing the detail of them, rather than using the glow effect.
@frankhymus nice compostiion Frank and i love the detail in the foreground with the wavy line of the salt. I tried upping the contrast a bit and found it enhanced those details i like alot.
@myhrhelper the buildings even though they are similar in design have enough differences in black and white for interest. I somehow want to see more of the street below , so maybe would have tilted the camera down a little, perhaps your trepidation is showing!
@northy re Boats...I really like that the shot is so "painterly" - especially the long reflections into the water. I agree with Clare's comments about a tighter frame around the 3 main boats. And, I would even consider cropping out more of the actual masts of the boats so that the eye is drawn down to the reflections, which are so beautiful. Really beautiful tone. Thanks for the inspiration.
@frankhymus Hi Frank....I understand the comments about the higher contrast, but I actually like the tonal quality; it seems very calming. I do find my eyes going in and out of the frame; the water and shore line take me into the buildings, but the clouds take me back out. I don't react to them so much as converging. But that's just how my eyes are working.
@myhrhelper I like that this line of building take me all the way through the photo and have the horizontal lines at the end of the street to balance the composition. Tops off the buildings really works for me.
@granagringa I like the movement of the palm trees and the different textures (sand, wall and trees). I would straighten the horizon and maybe zoom out a bit.
@granagringa Thanks for your nice comments. Yes, I purposely didn't raise the contrast, for me that makes the image more active and aggressive than I wanted it. I did call the photo "Quiet..." after all. There is even a small dose of negative clarity (low mid tone contrast basically) to smooth it out even more.
@granagringa Palm trees.
+ The sky and cloud detail is superb.
- The tilted horizon. Yes I know rotation might have pulled the trees too much, but perhaps some horizontal perspective correction and then re-squashing with the "aspect" control might pull it around some without disturbing the trees too much.
@jeetee
Banner Marsh
+ As with others here, the sky and clouds are super, here a hint of aggressiveness with the sun's rays.
- Also as some above, I'd have pulled detail out of the foreground shadow. I'd like to see a little texture of the logs, not a lot but some. It's the type of image that might have been classically shot with a graded ND filter to keep the (brighter) sky under control while giving some detail in the darker foreground in the bottom half of the frame. Not really necessary with the excellent digital cameras of today and a good editor (Lightroom/ACR would be enough here I believe).
i really like the meandering line of the water and how the cloud appears to mirror the line...
if it were me (which it isn't - but if it were) i think i would be aiming for more contrast... i'm not sure where, but i do think the tones in the sand and the buildings could have a bit more oomph to them...
and thank you for the feedback on my shot... yes - i think you're right about the crop... i posted a slightly tighter crop on flickr, but expect i could've gone further... i know what you mean about adding sharpness and clarity... but i gotta say - everytime i add in clarity, i go right back and take it out... must be something with my aging eyes!
@kali66 such a cute shot! i really like the overall clarity and details as well... it pops quite nicely on black :) i am inclined to wonder whether you might have blacked out the top left corner... i find that brightness and shape kind of distracting to the eye... i might also play with the contrast and light a bit... aiming for some pure black and pure white and to draw the eye to your sweet fur baby :)
@granagringa gotta love a beach shot! i like the overall composition with beach, fence and trees... and the overall feel of power and movement in the windswept branches... as others have mentioned, i'd want to straighten the horizon... and maybe aim for a wider angle in order to get in the tops of the trees :)
@overalvandaan love the high contrast and the whimsical composition with the children leaning over the fence :) i think i would have liked to see a smidgeon more detail in the shadows around the children (although i'm torn... while my eyes don't really want to do the work to "see" them, it DOES make me look at the image longer and makes me properly SEE the detail!)
@jeetee i really like the overall composition and high contrast... the black and white tones are really pleasing to the eye... i don't feel a particular need to see more in the logs at the bottom of the shot, but i'm not really enthralled with the pyramid shaped shadow at the bottom... if this was natural, then i'd leave it, but if it was added in to draw the eye, i'd be curious to see the image without it...
@northy Thanks for the feedback. As for more contrast, I was aiming for a calm and peaceful effect, nothing aggressive or too active. There's even some negative clarity across the frame too. The title was, of course "Quiet..."
@northy@frankhymus yes, agree. The boys were wearing dark trousers. If you lessen the shadows (slide to the right) to get more detail in Lightroom it does it for the whole image though, or can you focus on a part of the image? Frank what do you mean with negative clarity, is that 'soft'? Thanks for the feed back, much appreciated.
@overalvandaan "Clarity" is that third from bottom slider on the basic panel of Lightroom. It is, basically, mid-tone contrast and sharpening. Slid to the left on a B&W image in particular, it softens it I find. Scott Kelby calls it "punch" if pushed to the right, but I find it way too crude most of the time.
For local adjustments, use the Adjustment brush and then select whatever parameters you want on the right. here I think you wanted "positive shadow" values. It's really best to do it in Photoshop on a separate layer with a layer mask, but if you don't have it... Don't try too many large Adjustment Brushes, they are RAM hogs, and slow down Lightroom and Camera Raw unmercifully.
Okay so I know this style is not everyones cup of tea but it is mine :) Story behind the image is that we had to capture in class the music and emotion that this heavy metal band gave out. For me it wasn't too difficult because I have photographed them live before. It is meant to be heavily processed so do be aware in that regard :D
I know the week is 1/2 over, but thought I'd jump in. I'll have to read the other comments that have been made on previous photos. This was posted the 20th of January this year. The apparently slanted shape of the window is a result of my POV.
@silverhorn I love the action you've caught here, his hair flying. I also like the general darkness -- it fits the subject, but wonder if it needs to be quite that dark. I wouldn't mind seeing a wee bit more of his right arm. If you do want it to be all black on that edge I'd clone out the small light piece of something about half way down of the left edge. There's also a tiny bit in the middle of the blackness on the lower right.
@northy I love the negative space on the bottom of your photo of the boats. I don't really feel the need for cropping on the sides -- maybe a bit on the right. But I definitely feel that cropping down the top, as you said you might do, is a good idea. It will reinforce the fact that it's an artistic decision and not just a "oops, didn't quite get the tops" which it feels a bit like now.
@myhrhelper On the Roof I like all the lines and the repeat patterns of windows. There's a great timeless quality to this. I like the roof line on the right, but it leads only to part of a relatively unimportant looking building. My eye goes back along the roof ridge, tries to determine if it's a church or something, realizes it's not, and in fact not even all of the building is in frame. What I want to be looking at (and do next) is the street below, looking at the cars to see what the time period is. If you're ever on that roof again and shooting again, I would sacrifice a little of the building on the left to get more of the right hand side in the frame. But that's just me.
@overalvandaan I love the composition and the great candid moment you caught here. As others have said, the kids seem just a smidge too dark (though it helped to click through and see a larger version). But I don't know enough about localized adjusting, masks etc and if it were me, I probably wouldn't be able to lighten up the foreground without blowing out more of the sky. Beautiful clouds!
50 Shades of a Bamboo Forest - tmax 400 film, scanned negative. I have yet to take this in the dark room and feel that I personally would try to tone down the front pieces of bamboo. I am also fingers crossed that the softness is from the noise reduction to clean up the scan and not in the negative. Ah, the joys of film.
Hi everyone, great looking at your photos. I want to qualify in looking at this I shoot a fair amount of film and print in the darkroom, so I spend a fair amount of time fussing with whites, blacks, and what I should have done. For those digital fans that convert, I may get the terms slightly wrong so please forgive me in advance.
@northy your whites are really white and come across as quite crisp. I wonder if you went a bit too far with the blacks and if data might of gotten lost, the contrast just seems a hint too drastic.
@myhrhelper the leading lines are really nice and pull you down the street, it may be my computer but the photo is a bit soft and for architecture shots like this I tend to like a sharper focus.
@frankhymus great shore line wave going on here. I wonder if you had used a red filter that might have brought out the clouds a bit more and created a bit more contrast (I think lightroom and photoshop have that as an option, but not really that )
@kali66 the contrast is really nice and shows off the rain drops well. I would think about a crop to take out the door frame on the right. I feel that the steering wheel tells the story and that the frame is taking away from the dog.
@jeetee - only positives and cannot find a constructive suggestion that could possibly improve the photo
@overalvandaan great compostion, layering and subject. I would figure out a way to lighten/dodge the children because the darks are just a hint too dark for them
@silverhorn - i do like the agressive edit and you really do use the edits well to get your story across, but I would brighten the whites a bit. The face is a bit dark and I can see some light reflections on the hair and would love to see them brought out a bit more.
@mcsiegle snow is really a challenge because it is soooooo white, but I do like the level of contrast you created and the window frame creates a great black contrast. Personally I am not a fan of the angle as much, but this is your point of view and you made it a memorable photo.
@phillyphotos Thanks. I can adjust the greyscale any way I care too. I didn't want aggressive contrast on this one titled "Quiet.." I think they match the breakers fairly nicely as is.
@frankhymus I like the leading line created by the water, and love the inclusion of a bit of the next wave rolling in. While usually a fan of large swatches of more or less "empty" or "negative" space, and appreciate that the theme of the photo is the calm, empty beach, it feels like there is just too much sandy foreground at the bottom. I'd crop some off, and think you wouldn't lose the impression of the empty beach.
@granagringa I really like the composition and the silhouette of the palm leaves against the sky. Like others have said, I think it needs a bit of straitening. I know how frustrating it can be, balancing/compromising between vertical and horizontal. (Boy, can I relate!) and would not myself be able to pull off a technical fix like @frankhymus would be able to. (Maybe you can.) But it's more likely that trees would be leaning some than an ocean horizon be tilted a bit.
@kali66 I love the subject. It gives me a big chuckle to see him/her sitting there with the steering wheel, as though considering taking the wheel and having a drive. I think it could use a wee bit more contrast, for my taste, anyway. I wouldn't crop off the door frame on the right -- at least not all of it. I like the framing it provides and if completely cut off, we lose the context of why we are seeing only part of the dog. That would be just too abrupt. About the upper left, I'd consider a light to moderate vignette with the background just barely visible. Blacking it out entirely IMO would look strange as the background seen through the window is the same house siding. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting what @northy was suggesting.
@jeetee Gorgeous shot! I love the rays of sun and the reflection of grass/reeds or whatever. I don't have a fine enough eye to give a minus comment or suggestion on the photo itself, but next time I wish you would put the picture into the thread in the way that provides a link to the original posting and a larger copy of the photo. I had to look back through your monthly views to find it. If you don't already know this, you just copy the code found where it says "embed code" when you click on the 3 dots under the picture - next to the star and comment balloon.
@phillyphotos Great shot. It is, indeed, very Ansel Adams-esque. I love the strong verticals (ok, that is a 'duh' comment, isn't it?) and the variation in tone. I agree with you that the brightest in the front need to be brought down a notch.
I'm new to this, hope I can contribute. @northy "boats"
Plus: There's an awful lot to like about this image. Solidly composed. I really like the softness of the reflected masts...
Minus: The hulls of the boats seem a little TOO white, almsot blown-out. It distracts me... I'd've preferred the real masts (instead of the reflections) be a bit crisper, but that's minor.
@jeetee "Banner Marsh"
Wow, I don't think I can keep the Plus coomets down to 3. I love the depth of thins, super strong foregrounsd elements, leading the eye back through the array of logs... to the open water, shore, and across the sky.
Negative: Only 1 comment. I would have preferred "rule-of-thirds" composition, place the horizon other than dead-center.
@mcsiegle@phillyphotos@northy i tried taking contrast way up but pulled it back so that the detail in the dark parts was not lost, cant remember exactly which nik setting i used but i played with all the sliders, i always do!!
i hadn't thought of vignetting the top left, i could try that, and the crop business might be worth a look but as it was just a quick snap in the rain i didnt take all that much notice at the time, just tried to get the dog in the middle somewhere! this is the composition sooc.
thanks for taking a look
@overalvandaan Thanks for the input...I will definitely get that horizon straightened. It is so good to have things made more conscious. I appreciate it greatly
@frankhymus Hi and thanks for the feedback of a few days ago. You mentioned the "aspect control"..I have no idea what that is. Time for me to do some research! thanks.
@mcsiegle you nailed it talking about the vertical versus the horizontal. and absolutely right about the trees leaning. thanks for the plus and minus comments.
@bizziebeeme what a wonderfully timed capture! i really like the overall subject and composition - and especially that reaching beak, the legs in the air, and the human element... i would have loved to have a bit more light and detail in the human, and a little less light on the features (rocks?) in the background as my eye finds them a bit distracting... a gradient might work on this but i'm not sure...
@northy thank you for your input very much appreciated. I do need to get to grips with editing. I agree I wanted more light on the human but just wasn't sure how to do it. I will try and play with it and work how
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well now @northy you might have kicked off with something we mere mortals might ever have a hope of shooting ourselves!
but undaunted, i shall say that i love the very straight, long lines here and the reflections and the leeeeeetle bit of negative space at the bottom
very hard to think of an improvement, but i guess i might have liked those three solid white boats to be the subjects, with no distractions at the extreme left and right
thanks for keeping this thread going. it's really helpful for me to consider a bit more carefully what i like about an image, and indeed what i maybe would have done differently, had i the skills
but thank you for the feedback on the image... i actually blacked out a bit on either side, but yeah - i think a tighter crop might work better
On the Roof
Self evaluation.
+ The cloud line and the water line converging on the buildings.
- A wider angle lens would have been much better, but 28mm was the widest I could go that day. Also the shadow across the middle might have been handled differently, it's a little awkwardly cut off on the left frame.
Boats.
+ The wide gamut of tones, always a plus for me for almost every style of B&W.
- I find the top crop quite awkward, like cutting off legs. Also I would have gone for more sharpness and clarity on the highlighted boat bodies.
Building.
+ The long lines across the bottom half of the frame pointing to the opening of the street. Also the verticals are straight. Perfect.
- A little flat perhaps. I personally would have sharpened it generously, and if that resulted in bad edges that couldn't be removed with "blend if.." I'd have to resort to a small clone stamp brush to paint them away. Tedious but sometimes necessary. Also in line with @northy a wider gamut of tone to go with the sharpening.
I am soaking both of your comments in I think you both have some good suggestions. I agree with everything you both said.
i think i agree with Frank that you could have made the most of the contrast between the smooth reflection and the real boats by retaining and even enhancing the detail of them, rather than using the glow effect.
+ The sky and cloud detail is superb.
- The tilted horizon. Yes I know rotation might have pulled the trees too much, but perhaps some horizontal perspective correction and then re-squashing with the "aspect" control might pull it around some without disturbing the trees too much.
Children and Fence.
+ The clouds and the sky. Very strong yet most graceful.
- I'd have pulled some detail out of the shadow.
Banner Marsh
+ As with others here, the sky and clouds are super, here a hint of aggressiveness with the sun's rays.
- Also as some above, I'd have pulled detail out of the foreground shadow. I'd like to see a little texture of the logs, not a lot but some. It's the type of image that might have been classically shot with a graded ND filter to keep the (brighter) sky under control while giving some detail in the darker foreground in the bottom half of the frame. Not really necessary with the excellent digital cameras of today and a good editor (Lightroom/ACR would be enough here I believe).
i really like the meandering line of the water and how the cloud appears to mirror the line...
if it were me (which it isn't - but if it were) i think i would be aiming for more contrast... i'm not sure where, but i do think the tones in the sand and the buildings could have a bit more oomph to them...
and thank you for the feedback on my shot... yes - i think you're right about the crop... i posted a slightly tighter crop on flickr, but expect i could've gone further... i know what you mean about adding sharpness and clarity... but i gotta say - everytime i add in clarity, i go right back and take it out... must be something with my aging eyes!
For local adjustments, use the Adjustment brush and then select whatever parameters you want on the right. here I think you wanted "positive shadow" values. It's really best to do it in Photoshop on a separate layer with a layer mask, but if you don't have it... Don't try too many large Adjustment Brushes, they are RAM hogs, and slow down Lightroom and Camera Raw unmercifully.
@northy your whites are really white and come across as quite crisp. I wonder if you went a bit too far with the blacks and if data might of gotten lost, the contrast just seems a hint too drastic.
@myhrhelper the leading lines are really nice and pull you down the street, it may be my computer but the photo is a bit soft and for architecture shots like this I tend to like a sharper focus.
@frankhymus great shore line wave going on here. I wonder if you had used a red filter that might have brought out the clouds a bit more and created a bit more contrast (I think lightroom and photoshop have that as an option, but not really that )
@kali66 the contrast is really nice and shows off the rain drops well. I would think about a crop to take out the door frame on the right. I feel that the steering wheel tells the story and that the frame is taking away from the dog.
@jeetee - only positives and cannot find a constructive suggestion that could possibly improve the photo
@overalvandaan great compostion, layering and subject. I would figure out a way to lighten/dodge the children because the darks are just a hint too dark for them
@silverhorn - i do like the agressive edit and you really do use the edits well to get your story across, but I would brighten the whites a bit. The face is a bit dark and I can see some light reflections on the hair and would love to see them brought out a bit more.
@mcsiegle snow is really a challenge because it is soooooo white, but I do like the level of contrast you created and the window frame creates a great black contrast. Personally I am not a fan of the angle as much, but this is your point of view and you made it a memorable photo.
Plus: There's an awful lot to like about this image. Solidly composed. I really like the softness of the reflected masts...
Minus: The hulls of the boats seem a little TOO white, almsot blown-out. It distracts me... I'd've preferred the real masts (instead of the reflections) be a bit crisper, but that's minor.
Wow, I don't think I can keep the Plus coomets down to 3. I love the depth of thins, super strong foregrounsd elements, leading the eye back through the array of logs... to the open water, shore, and across the sky.
Negative: Only 1 comment. I would have preferred "rule-of-thirds" composition, place the horizon other than dead-center.
i hadn't thought of vignetting the top left, i could try that, and the crop business might be worth a look but as it was just a quick snap in the rain i didnt take all that much notice at the time, just tried to get the dog in the middle somewhere! this is the composition sooc.
thanks for taking a look