any tips or tricks to share? i have been experimenting with the various b&w conversion options in PSE, and playing with the sliders a bit... but i don't really know what i am doing and it's all trial, and frankly, mostly error... would love to know if there are some rules of thumb or guides to help at least with where to start...
i did a bit of surfing thru back discussion threads, but none seemed to cover this question... if i missed a thread that does, please feel free to point me to it!
tagging @buttercup because she had some of the same questions i have :)
@northy Can't help on Photoshop as I don't have it. But from a subject point of view then I go for a lot of stainless steel, bare metal, contrasting colours, textures etc. And rainy days are awesome for B&W
On my film cam's I tend over or under expose a shot I know will be in black and white by 1 stop on shutter speed, on digital then play with the exposure compensation.
Slight vignette can help on street shots to draw attention to the main subject.
I'm sure someone will now come up with a better reply :P
Nik software has the best b&w conversion software... its a plug in called Silver Efex Pro. That said, once the trial I had ended, I've just been sad, because it is awesome but sooooooo expensive!
If you have PSE, have you tried using the gradient tool to convert? I think it does the best job of conversion in PSE, but I agree that it leaves something to be desired. What I've been doing is using the gradient tool in PSE to convert to b&w. I also take the raw image in Lightroom and use the grayscale preset, then use the gradient tool to increase the clarity, then I layer both images in PSE and merge them. Its a true pain, but I think the results are better. One of these days I'll break down and get Silver Efex Pro. It is soooo easy to get amazing results with that software
In LR there are SO MANY options, but I find my favorite way to convert to black and white is to decrease the saturation all of the way and then tweak the exposure, contrast, and clarity to my liking.
I find the best black and white images I get are from decomposing to RGB layers, here is a video tutorial for Gimp I am sure most editing suites have similar features though http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hDGJrxOO14
@northy The style of B&W that I prefer has a decent amount of contrast, showing the viewer what is true black and what is true white. To do the conversion, I use a gradient map set to black on one end and white on the other. Set the blend mode to "color". Add a sepia filter on top of that. Now beneath the gradient (meaning between the background layer and your gradient layer) place a hue/saturation adjustment. Use the hue slider to obtain the proper highlighting for your image. You can then use a levels adjustment to work the overall image tone. My final tweak is with a contrast adjustment. Hope that helps!
My take would be to do everything you can on the photo like adjusting contrast, blending light and shadows and merging them before the b&w conversion. I tend to lean mostly on low light and play mostly on the overlay blending options. I take some editing on lightroom too which has some really cool presets and tweak some on PSE. I generally don't follow any rule and play much of the available sliders whenever I want. Hope it helps and just have fun.
thank you all! i am printing out all these ideas and will work on playing with the different suggestions over the next little while...
Jase - this is really helpful... i generally don't think about b&w when i am taking a photo - only after the fact... good point to think about it when composing the shot as well
Jeff - i've heard that silver effex pro is "da bomb" and it is on my birthday list... my husband is always stuck for ideas of what to get me (i'm not big on bling) so i'm hopeful :)
Courtney, Lee and GGG - i don't have lightroom or gimp, just PSE... and as noted above, looking to someday acquire silver effex... but i am thinking that i can easily practice your suggestions in PSE :)
@kannafoot tx so much for the detailed instructions... i am looking forward to experimenting with all these different ideas :)
@northy Keep in mind that you will need to adjust your highlights and shadows. Try to keep pure blacks in your shadows and pure whites in your highlights. Otherwise, it's just a muddy mess of grays and what my old photog professor called "flat!" He was a real stickler for what he called crisp black and whites with a good balance of pure black and pure white for interest.
I'll agree with Jeff @jsw0109 that NIK Silver Efex Pro is great but just like any other tool, its how you use the software that counts. The really great results are when you know how to use it well.
@jonesp Couldn't agree more... Which is where I struggle w PSE as I need to figure out what to be looking for and how best to achieve that kind of effect... I plan to do some practicing and experimenting :)
@wardie@aspada Maybe we should talk to NIK about some promotional gifts :-)
@northy I know what you mean. You first have to understand what is possible before you can start editing/processing with a final image in mind and that only comes with experience. I came to photography after 10 years of working with Photoshop and that gave me a great advantage in realising my ideas for my shots.
I shoot in RAW and adjust there (PSE), add black, contrast, clarity, temperature etc, just tweak until you're happy, and walk away and go back to it later if you have time.
Having skimmed through the rest of this thread I'm going to try out some of the other advice too, I just love B&W and want to learn more too : )
the one tipI got here was to adjust your photo with contrast/ brightness, etc. Then desaturate your photo instead of hitting black and white. I was told it gives more flexibility to
further updates and a less flat look.
oh and right now with my black and white photo class I am learning to think of the results of black and white prior to shooting. Such as contrast, shape, bright v dark instead of what will pop in the photo
I tend to think in terms of b&w a lot of the time - frankly it suits the weather and landscape round here. Back in the film days I shot a lot of FP4, Delta 400 and so on, almost never colour, but digital has changed that for good. My camera has a mono mode but it's never been used: shoot in colour, convert on the computer is my way of doing things.
If NIK ever felt like porting Silver Efex Pro for Linux, I'd be all over it, but as it stands GIMP's my chosen software. That gives a lot of conversion options most of which I've used, the worst of which is to switch the mode to greyscale. That generally gives a flat, lifeless result. Desaturating is better, and a black to white gradient map can sometimes work very well. The most flexible method in my opinion is to decompose to red green and blue greyscale layers (or separate images) and mix them to suit. The channel mixer tool provides a straightforward way to do this, but it's a bit rough and ready; on the other hand it provides a means to indulge in some wild and wacky pseudo-infrared trickery (which can be a lot of fun). I've a feeling there's at least one more method, but that's enough to be going on with.
It's probably best to adjust curves and levels before conversion, at any rate those are the tools to use for fine tuning contrast rather than the brightness/contrast tool which is a bit of a blunt instrument.
Here's an article from GIMP.org which explains things nicely, and I'm sure that the principles apply to other software: http://www.gimp.org/tutorials/Color2BW/
@jsw0109 I agree that the gradiant tool in PSE is the best means of converting to B&W. I do not like the result of the convert to B&W button. I have used the gradiant tool yet, but I have seen it done and the results were great.
when I convert into black and white I do it very lo tech. I open the picture in Windows picture and fax viewer, my version of windows offers me desaturate, and darken or lighten midtones, I often darken midtones. simple.
@chapjohn i just gave it a go, but i'm going to need to play with it a lot more before i get the hang of it and land on a good result...
@automaticslim tx so much for the info and that link! as i mentioned above, i really need to put in some practice and play time to get this figured out :)
tx so much for all your suggestions and advice... today's efforts below... if nothing else, i can consider these the baseline... nowhere to go but up, right? ;p
@marlboromaam Your photography professor sounds like an Ansel Adams fan! His technical books are still relevant; the series consisting of "The Camera", "The Negative" and "The Print" are inspirational.
@automaticslim He probably was an Ansel Adams fan, although Mr. Adams was never mentioned in my classes. The first time and only time I turned in a "flat" print, I was made a bad example of in front of the whole class. LOL! I never did that again! He also loved the zoning technique, something I still am trying to master. Zoning was an Ansel adams creation... black subjects on black backgrounds, white subjects on white backgrounds, and still with detail and pure blacks and whites in the shadows and highlights. Very difficult - but beautiful when done right!
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On my film cam's I tend over or under expose a shot I know will be in black and white by 1 stop on shutter speed, on digital then play with the exposure compensation.
Slight vignette can help on street shots to draw attention to the main subject.
I'm sure someone will now come up with a better reply :P
If you have PSE, have you tried using the gradient tool to convert? I think it does the best job of conversion in PSE, but I agree that it leaves something to be desired. What I've been doing is using the gradient tool in PSE to convert to b&w. I also take the raw image in Lightroom and use the grayscale preset, then use the gradient tool to increase the clarity, then I layer both images in PSE and merge them. Its a true pain, but I think the results are better. One of these days I'll break down and get Silver Efex Pro. It is soooo easy to get amazing results with that software
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hDGJrxOO14
:D
thank you all! i am printing out all these ideas and will work on playing with the different suggestions over the next little while...
Jase - this is really helpful... i generally don't think about b&w when i am taking a photo - only after the fact... good point to think about it when composing the shot as well
Jeff - i've heard that silver effex pro is "da bomb" and it is on my birthday list... my husband is always stuck for ideas of what to get me (i'm not big on bling) so i'm hopeful :)
Courtney, Lee and GGG - i don't have lightroom or gimp, just PSE... and as noted above, looking to someday acquire silver effex... but i am thinking that i can easily practice your suggestions in PSE :)
@kannafoot tx so much for the detailed instructions... i am looking forward to experimenting with all these different ideas :)
tx again!
@northy I know what you mean. You first have to understand what is possible before you can start editing/processing with a final image in mind and that only comes with experience. I came to photography after 10 years of working with Photoshop and that gave me a great advantage in realising my ideas for my shots.
Having skimmed through the rest of this thread I'm going to try out some of the other advice too, I just love B&W and want to learn more too : )
further updates and a less flat look.
If NIK ever felt like porting Silver Efex Pro for Linux, I'd be all over it, but as it stands GIMP's my chosen software. That gives a lot of conversion options most of which I've used, the worst of which is to switch the mode to greyscale. That generally gives a flat, lifeless result. Desaturating is better, and a black to white gradient map can sometimes work very well. The most flexible method in my opinion is to decompose to red green and blue greyscale layers (or separate images) and mix them to suit. The channel mixer tool provides a straightforward way to do this, but it's a bit rough and ready; on the other hand it provides a means to indulge in some wild and wacky pseudo-infrared trickery (which can be a lot of fun). I've a feeling there's at least one more method, but that's enough to be going on with.
It's probably best to adjust curves and levels before conversion, at any rate those are the tools to use for fine tuning contrast rather than the brightness/contrast tool which is a bit of a blunt instrument.
Here's an article from GIMP.org which explains things nicely, and I'm sure that the principles apply to other software: http://www.gimp.org/tutorials/Color2BW/
@chapjohn i just gave it a go, but i'm going to need to play with it a lot more before i get the hang of it and land on a good result...
@automaticslim tx so much for the info and that link! as i mentioned above, i really need to put in some practice and play time to get this figured out :)
tx so much for all your suggestions and advice... today's efforts below... if nothing else, i can consider these the baseline... nowhere to go but up, right? ;p
This sounds really interesting! I'm pretty sure I have a book of ansel Adams photos somewhere... Must dig it up and have a look thru!