Hi everyone
Me and my wife and 3 year old son went to an open day at a fire station in Uttoxeter in Staffordshire UK. It was a great morning out, 2 people asked me if I was from the press. Lol : )
Everyone was taking photos of their own children,
Then on the way out, this policeman said that someone had made a complaint about me taking photo`s, etc. I then said this is a hobby for me and I only had taken photo`s of my 3 year old son, and I also said there is lots of people taking photo`s, is this because I have a bigger camera than most of the people at the open day. Anyway he asked for my details so he could do a check on me because a complaint had been made.
I would love to hear any of your stories if anything like this has happened to you.
My dad was taking photos the other day (there was a wedding outside) in a small town he was visiting. Someone walked up and asked if he was taking photos for the couple. When he said "no" she asked him to stop.
He was still clicking around the area (not necessarily at the wedding) and the groom drove past and gave him the finger. Not the police, but certainly people can become un happy if they think they are being photographed by strangers.
@simon0128 You didnt need to give him your details, you didnt need to do anything with the police. People just dont understand the law at the moment, and even the police get it wrong. If I was in your shoes, I would put in a complaint to the police station, mainly because it would teach that one policeman that he has no right to ask you anything. You didnt break the law and hopefully he will not do it to the next innocent photographer.
I've never had this happen with my personal 365 project. But when my husband and I were in real estate we had to take street shot photos for our corporate clients (foreclosures, pre-foreclosures, etc.). Occasionally we would run into problems especially in a bad neighborhood. Once a policeman approached my husband asking why he was taking photos in an area where there was a lot of drug activity. He had to produce all kinds of ID to prove he was a Realtor doing it for a bank ;-)
If you was taking photographs inside the station then the owners could have asked you to stop, even if it was a public event. You only have the right to freely photograph people when in a public place.
Though that being said was you told that you was being reported for an offence and what that offence was? If not then you had no need to give your details at all. Even if arrested you still not need to give your details, but generally best to if things have reached that stage.
You would have been with in your rights though to ask for his
Collar Number (that should be visible on any unformed officer)
Name
Station
Name of his District Sergeant and Inspector
You should still look a raising a complaint as @blightygal said, but then again I really don't have any respect for police :)
I guess parents are worried about their kids and pervs, but most parents, like most people in fact, are arseholes. Do what Jase says, and as long as your camera is not concealled you're in the clear. Remember you pay that guys wage, think of him as on 'your staff'. I do, I have a couple of policemen come round every tuesday to clean my bins with a powerhose. They tried to send community support officers last time, I sent em right back.
@38mm
I'm holding my breath until an American joins this thread to defend policemen, who are defending us from evil, or dying for our countries freedom or some shit.
You were on private property and kids were involved. Maybe one of the parents thought you were taking pics of their kids hence the complaint? I know personal privacy has been in the media as a result of all the cameras out there. Since you had a large noticable camera, it was noticed more easily and suspicion was raised.
LOL- i am an American and will only talk to one policeman who i have met here - any other one i have even dealt with has totally violated every right i have been told i have as an American. Police are simply people like us. they make mistakes, too. i think we need to keep our wits about us and remember, as @chewyteeth said, parents worry about their kids and many our there turn into instant assholes if they believe there is any danger present. i know i used to when my kids were small. we need to put the shoe on our our other feet.
@chewyteeth I'm an American and I don't know very many Americans who like cops. I actually thought it might be different on your side of the pond because when I watch British produced shows and films, they always seem to be portrayed respectfully. Just watch any American produced show or film and you'll see how we portray them as dirty and crooked all the time. There are officers that I do respect, because they really do protect and SERVE and respect citizens' rights, etc... but there are one too many bad apples, so overall, I don't like 'em.
That said... there is one place I know of where using an SLR or DSLR will cause you a world of pain.... airports. The TSA can care less if you use a cell phone camera or a point and shoot, but if you start taking pictures in an airport with a larger camera, they freak out. Obviously (sarcasm here) you're a terrorist. The TSA is way worse.
I'm American, my opinion about the police, they are people, good and bad ones are everywhere.
Since starting 365, I have had two experiences like this.
The first one, I was taking night pics of a lit up restaurant at a mall and the rent-a-cop came by and told me I had to leave. It was private property. So I left.
Then the second time, I was taking pics of the gas and oil tank farm in our city. The city police came by and said the drivers had noticed me and called it in. He told me I could keep shooting.I was on a public street, but he did ask for ID and took all my stats, and said they keep it on file.
Visiting Egypt, we paid a visit to the Valley of the Kings. There are signs saying "No Photographs" on all the entrances to the tombs. As we headed down into one of them, I switched my camera off and slung it over my shoulder. Down in the tomb itself, a security guy suddenly took my camera off me and started reviewing recent shots to make sure I hadn't been taking photos (I hadn't), angrily remonstrating with me about how serious this is. I'm having a heart attack that he might drop or damage the camera, or something! So, then, when he doesn't find any photos of the tombs, he's all smiles and asks me to change some sterling and dollar coins into local currency! I didn't feel I could oblige!!!
On a public street outside a gas plant (PG&E) two guards asked me to stop taking photos for security reasons: "We know it's your right to photograph here, but we're asking you to stop. We wouldn't want these photos to fall into the wrong hands."
Was there ever a terrorist attack that occurred because of photography? I seriously think some people need their heads examined. At least these guys were somewhat polite and didn't ask for info.
1) At public events people take photos.
2) Families, with children, go to public events.
3) Anyone who takes photos near children is almost certainly not a paedophile, especially those who are out with their family! If your child happens to be on their photo then they will almost certainly be ignored if they cannot be copped or blurred out.
4) People with long lenses are LESS likely to have your children on their photos as they can isolate their chosen subject.
If you don't want to risk you or your children being on some ones photo do not leave your home, but better still, do not listen to the paranoia generated by the tabloid press.
I suppose they are over sensitive lately about children-photo-taking because of the big news of child-pornography found in the internet. Molesters are international. So just be careful.
It was a cheap shot Jeff. But just to clarify I wasn't really having a joke at American's view of law enforcement, but rather the 365 habit of Americans, the bible belt type, shooting down any kind of criticism/synicism/sarcasm in discussions. The last few posts had been anti-police, or at least anti-unlawful-police wading in, so I expected an counter argument.
;)
I'm an American, and I don't feel like it's worth the hassle to get into a discussion of the legalities of photographing in a public place with an officer who might tell me I cannot do so. I can convey that a fellow member of my photo club was at a county fair a couple weeks ago, by himself, photographing people having fun (for our photo club assignment, "Humor/Fun," and he was approached by a county deputy sheriff. The deputy told him people were complaining about my friend photographing their children, and asked him to leave. My friend does have a rather impressive DSLR and all the attachments, he wasn't snapping pics with a compact or cell phone camera.
My friend explained about the photo club, the deputy said he understood, he was just doing his job. Yes, law enforcement officers are our employees, more or less, but they are also the employee(s) of the panicky parents who are so paranoid about someone snapping photos of their kids. To the parents, I would point out there's a VAST difference between a stranger shooting a photo of your kid eating cotton candy or laughing at a clown and some weirdo standing below a staircase trying to get upshots of little girls in skirts, etc.
It's too bad we live in a world where people need to become confrontational over every little thing. With that said, there are a LOT of things to photograph, everywhere. If my doing so causes suspicion or distress, I can move along and find something else.
@chewyteeth ah ok... I thought maybe you thought Americans loved the police so much that we'd defend them no matter what. We only defend the good ones that are doing what we pay them to do. :) I guess some people might see it as "defending America" but whatever. Cops aren't "America"
Molesters are international, but some arents are downright paranoid.
I work in a school. Each year, we hold a literary contest for pupils, and the winners receive a little prize. One of the teachers takes a photo of the kids being given the prize - usually with his/her form tutor (who awards the prize) and other kids in the background. Said photo is mailed to the parents of the winner, who are usually bursting with pride. BUT Two years ago, one of the parents wanted to sue the school because his daughter was in the audience and we had taken photos of her (in the background) without his permission. Now all parents have to agree in writing that their kids can be photographed while they take part in school-related stuff. By law they can, but some parents don't know it and can be a pain in the neck.
what bothers me about all this is that those with DSLRs are singled out... when i expect the reality is that the creepoids out there are just as likely, or perhaps even mostly, using small p&s or cell phone cameras!
i'm in canada and have had no run ins while taking photos... yes - there were a couple times where a cop spoke to me... but there was never any issue...
one couldn't for the life of her figure out what someone was doing on a cold day in that part of town with a camera - i pointed to a public building with some interesting windows and crenelations (sp??) on the roof and we had a brief chat about architecture and photography...
the other time was at the hashmob event... i was shooting crouched down by a security fence (so as to be out of the way) when i realized some cops were standing right above me... i looked up wondering if i was in for it, and they said: "no no - no need to move... we just didn't want to spoil your shot!"...
oh, and then once when i was out in winter at night shooting from an overpass a cop car slowed down but didn't stop... i expect they were wondering if i were up to no good, but didn't see any reason to worry about a crazy lady with a camera on a tripod at 10pm...
I've only been told to stop photographing once and that was at a village park. Apparently, there was a municipal ordinance that forbid taking pictures of children playing in the park's playground unless you had a press pass (an over the top response to the "OMG, everyone is a pedophile!" hysteria that is running rampant). The park employee who bustled over and told me this was rather rude but I kept calm and pointed out that there were no signs forbidding photography posted anywhere in the park, much less the playground and that I was taking the pictures with the parents' permission (I had been asked to take some photos of Mum and Dad playing with their kids in the water feature when they saw me taking pics of the flower gardens next to the playground). The employee blustered some more, I packed up and went to take pictures elsewhere. The next time I was at that park, the village had actually put up signs saying "No photography permitted" at the playground.
I do carry cards with me along with a little notebook. I ask permission to take any photos of children and ask if it would be OK to post them to my website (I had permission to post the pic of the little girl and her grandfather that appeared in my project on July 29th) and give them a card with my email address so they can contact me to get a copy of the photo. Most of the time I never hear back from them, but I've had quite a few takers. Of course, if they say no, I honor their wishes.
I actually have more issues with adults that don't want their image anywhere in a photograph, whether in focus or not. I think in a lot of these cases it's vanity speaking.
I hate not being able to take my camera into concerts, when everyone there uses IPhones anyway. I understand we can zoom in closer, but hey... It is the era where the camera catches all.
Thanks everyone for the comments, I was just taken back that someone had reported me, when there was lots of people using their own compact cameras. The policeman was just doing his job. Still we live and learn lol
It's really to bad that the person that made the complaint didn't have the guts to confront you themself. Perhaps the whole thing would have been mute, had they just had a simple conversation with you. If they were concerned for their children they could have asked you not to take photos of them and you could have let them know at that point that your only interest was in taking photos of your own child. Unfortunately it seems that people rarely do what's logical.
@simon0128 see... i'm not convinced of that... in my mind, doing his job would have meant pointing out to the complainant that there were tons of cameras about and asking why he thought you were posing a particular threat... and while a brief chat with you may have been appropriate, seeing that you were with your own child, i can't see any need to ask for your info... tho' the cop may have seen asking you as a way to make sure he doesn't get caught out later for not checking on something - but really, they are supposed to use their judgement, no?
I've just attended yet another swimming carnival with my eldest. She informed me today that she's been to over 100 since we emigrated. At each and every one there are parents with DSLR's taking photos of their kids and the kids in their clubs. I've seen people taking photos with Ipads..... and had to stop myself at giggling at the man who was walking backwards and using an Ipad to film his child. He almost fell in the pool.
At a few events we've been asked to sign a form if we intend on taking photos. Have to state name and club but there's no way of knowing who's signed it and who hasn't.
I've taken photos at school events,nipper events, parades etc with my DSLR and nobody's batted an eyelid.
It may be because in Australia most people who come anywhere near anything to do with kids have to be vetted and carry what is called a 'Blue Card'...so maybe the assumption is we all have one?
The first time I went to the city to brave some street photography, I was confronted by a security guy as I stopped to shoot some great window reflections in a building. I was so taken aback that I was apparently doing something wrong, I stuttered my apology saying I was unaware that I couldn't photograph buildings. He said it was a government building and that I was standing on their property. I had no idea that the ground I was standing on was 'holy'! I asked if I could photograph from the footpath, a few metres behind me. He said that he couldn't stop me from doing that, but he was very intimidating. If I'd been a gamer 365er I'd have walked back and stood there shooting again. But as I was a timid little first-timer I skulked away feeling very reprimanded :-(
My husband said it was because I was obviously a terrorist zooming in on top secret information.
I just need to throw in here, Australian- particularly QLD police - very nice people. Although my husband, who is a cop, often shakes his head when I am busy taking shots of random people and places he knows that I am within my rights if on public property and he will take the odd shot himself of a random stranger of two. I personally don't feel comfortable getting shots of kids I don't know and posting them online. If I am around kids and see something I will usually try and blur the focus on them or use just a hand or backs etc.
The world has gone crazy .. The police should have better things to do than listen to idiots who report someone at an event for taking pictures ,.. "Come on".... why cant people get real , if you where standing across the street alone with a massive zoom lens shooting toward the event far enough you would look a little suspect and could expect a tap on the shoulder , but standing with your family taking shots, like many others were doing ... Freida @blightygal is right , Complain and complain strongly . Why should you also not have the right to no the names of the people who made the complaint . Good luck in whatever you decision is
So, you say it's legal to photograph people (strangers) on a public street, but what about publishing them? I though that if you publish said photo, you needed to have permission from the subject. That's why I always work to avoid photos of faces in my pictures on 365, unless they are friends and family and I have permission.
I was out with my friends the other day, we decided to do a photo shoot and some photography for fun, when these adults came up to us swearing and shouting at us, accusing us of taking pictures of them. We politely said we weren't and they carried on shouting and being rude, we waited for them to calm down but they only got worse and called the police. In the end an elderly lady was kind enough to explain to the police what had happened. But some people have a problem with you being out in public taking photo's. If it's of them without permission, I understand, but not when your not doing anything wrong.
@butterflysandpandabears It sucks it's come to that. What ever happened to the time when you could just take pics of people, out in public, and not have people be so touchy? I always think back to the last episode of Touch where an amateur photographer was taking pics in the crowd. No one gave her any trouble. Why was this easier to do 10 or 20 years ago?
I've had some retailers tell me I couldn't take pictures in their stores. If I'd used the phone-camera I doubt it would have been a problem, but the "big unit" seems to set off some bells. I don't do it often, but it's nice to be able to come home and say to my wife, "Here are pictures of the two paneling designs I liked. What do you think?"
I am a DSLR and cellphone camera user. Yesterday at the beach we had a weird experience with an elderly man, with a large dslr set up dangling from his neck strap. He was walking, alone, and suddenly stopped, staring at my teen aged child in bikini...about 10 feet away. He popped the long lens off, clearly aiming at her and started shooting. There were few other people on the beach at this time of afternoon. I am usually pretty laid back about fellow photographers in public places, but THIS was weird. I do not think the episode at the fire house open house day was unusual and find it odd that anyone would complain...clearly since you were there with your own children.
@kellyburke I'm not sure how I'd feel about your experience, but in a way I could also see it as a compliment (depending on her age-all you said was teen) Maybe he thought she looked like a model and was practicing *shrugs* That's just me trying to see his side of the story...not trying to defend him.
@kimdelee I am not so sure about this, i know i would not like it if someone was taken shots of my child in a bikini, thanks very much for you comments : )
@kimdelee She's 14...and oddly shy given that she can wear the bikini. It was just his body language, etc. Given that I am often struggling on the other side of the lens, I usually don't react at all to other photographers. This one got my hackles up. I didnt say anything at the time, but on the way home we discussed things we could say or do next time and what to do if she was not with an adult at the time.
@simon0128 No problem, I think it's the libra in me :) @kellyburke I guess you gotta trust your Mothers instinct as I wasn't there...and have only raised boys. LOL Here's hoping it was all just an innocent photographer.
@kimdelee Again, he was well into his 80's and was with a lady friend. It was just different. We live a street over from the beach and are used to tourists from all nations and cultures. This one just...registered..on the Mom scale. We used it as a great opportunity to discuss and learn and process. Always good to keep dialogue open.
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He was still clicking around the area (not necessarily at the wedding) and the groom drove past and gave him the finger. Not the police, but certainly people can become un happy if they think they are being photographed by strangers.
Though that being said was you told that you was being reported for an offence and what that offence was? If not then you had no need to give your details at all. Even if arrested you still not need to give your details, but generally best to if things have reached that stage.
You would have been with in your rights though to ask for his
Collar Number (that should be visible on any unformed officer)
Name
Station
Name of his District Sergeant and Inspector
You should still look a raising a complaint as @blightygal said, but then again I really don't have any respect for police :)
@38mm
I'm holding my breath until an American joins this thread to defend policemen, who are defending us from evil, or dying for our countries freedom or some shit.
That said... there is one place I know of where using an SLR or DSLR will cause you a world of pain.... airports. The TSA can care less if you use a cell phone camera or a point and shoot, but if you start taking pictures in an airport with a larger camera, they freak out. Obviously (sarcasm here) you're a terrorist. The TSA is way worse.
Since starting 365, I have had two experiences like this.
The first one, I was taking night pics of a lit up restaurant at a mall and the rent-a-cop came by and told me I had to leave. It was private property. So I left.
Then the second time, I was taking pics of the gas and oil tank farm in our city. The city police came by and said the drivers had noticed me and called it in. He told me I could keep shooting.I was on a public street, but he did ask for ID and took all my stats, and said they keep it on file.
Was there ever a terrorist attack that occurred because of photography? I seriously think some people need their heads examined. At least these guys were somewhat polite and didn't ask for info.
1) At public events people take photos.
2) Families, with children, go to public events.
3) Anyone who takes photos near children is almost certainly not a paedophile, especially those who are out with their family! If your child happens to be on their photo then they will almost certainly be ignored if they cannot be copped or blurred out.
4) People with long lenses are LESS likely to have your children on their photos as they can isolate their chosen subject.
If you don't want to risk you or your children being on some ones photo do not leave your home, but better still, do not listen to the paranoia generated by the tabloid press.
Grrr. Rant over.
Well I guess you're his mother so you have a really objective view of the issue, I bow out to your impartial wisdom.
It was a cheap shot Jeff. But just to clarify I wasn't really having a joke at American's view of law enforcement, but rather the 365 habit of Americans, the bible belt type, shooting down any kind of criticism/synicism/sarcasm in discussions. The last few posts had been anti-police, or at least anti-unlawful-police wading in, so I expected an counter argument.
;)
My friend explained about the photo club, the deputy said he understood, he was just doing his job. Yes, law enforcement officers are our employees, more or less, but they are also the employee(s) of the panicky parents who are so paranoid about someone snapping photos of their kids. To the parents, I would point out there's a VAST difference between a stranger shooting a photo of your kid eating cotton candy or laughing at a clown and some weirdo standing below a staircase trying to get upshots of little girls in skirts, etc.
It's too bad we live in a world where people need to become confrontational over every little thing. With that said, there are a LOT of things to photograph, everywhere. If my doing so causes suspicion or distress, I can move along and find something else.
I work in a school. Each year, we hold a literary contest for pupils, and the winners receive a little prize. One of the teachers takes a photo of the kids being given the prize - usually with his/her form tutor (who awards the prize) and other kids in the background. Said photo is mailed to the parents of the winner, who are usually bursting with pride. BUT Two years ago, one of the parents wanted to sue the school because his daughter was in the audience and we had taken photos of her (in the background) without his permission. Now all parents have to agree in writing that their kids can be photographed while they take part in school-related stuff. By law they can, but some parents don't know it and can be a pain in the neck.
i'm in canada and have had no run ins while taking photos... yes - there were a couple times where a cop spoke to me... but there was never any issue...
one couldn't for the life of her figure out what someone was doing on a cold day in that part of town with a camera - i pointed to a public building with some interesting windows and crenelations (sp??) on the roof and we had a brief chat about architecture and photography...
the other time was at the hashmob event... i was shooting crouched down by a security fence (so as to be out of the way) when i realized some cops were standing right above me... i looked up wondering if i was in for it, and they said: "no no - no need to move... we just didn't want to spoil your shot!"...
oh, and then once when i was out in winter at night shooting from an overpass a cop car slowed down but didn't stop... i expect they were wondering if i were up to no good, but didn't see any reason to worry about a crazy lady with a camera on a tripod at 10pm...
I do carry cards with me along with a little notebook. I ask permission to take any photos of children and ask if it would be OK to post them to my website (I had permission to post the pic of the little girl and her grandfather that appeared in my project on July 29th) and give them a card with my email address so they can contact me to get a copy of the photo. Most of the time I never hear back from them, but I've had quite a few takers. Of course, if they say no, I honor their wishes.
I actually have more issues with adults that don't want their image anywhere in a photograph, whether in focus or not. I think in a lot of these cases it's vanity speaking.
Thanks everyone for the comments, I was just taken back that someone had reported me, when there was lots of people using their own compact cameras. The policeman was just doing his job. Still we live and learn lol
At a few events we've been asked to sign a form if we intend on taking photos. Have to state name and club but there's no way of knowing who's signed it and who hasn't.
I've taken photos at school events,nipper events, parades etc with my DSLR and nobody's batted an eyelid.
It may be because in Australia most people who come anywhere near anything to do with kids have to be vetted and carry what is called a 'Blue Card'...so maybe the assumption is we all have one?
My husband said it was because I was obviously a terrorist zooming in on top secret information.
my green bin is especially bad, since we put our fish bones in it now!
http://store.petapixel.com/products/Photographers-Rights-Gray-Card-Set.html
Thanks for all your stories and comments
Kelly that would concern me to if someone was zooming in on my child in bikini
@kellyburke I guess you gotta trust your Mothers instinct as I wasn't there...and have only raised boys. LOL Here's hoping it was all just an innocent photographer.