I was trying to capture star trails and it turned out like daylight. I want to give it another go, but was hoping you all can give me some tips before I try again!!! This was shot with ISO 100, f/8 (I should have gone smaller), and 1 hour 20 minute exposure.
I want to do it in one shot, without stacking. Any advice? Is it even possible?
This was edited to make it look somewhat dark!
@melissachambers Why do you not want to do stacking? It will result in more control and better results. Your shot, although good, has visible noise even at the small size in this discussion, which would be avoided if you stacked the image.
Fundamentally, and especially with a single image, you will need dark skies if you don't want the background to overwhelm the stars. If you are in an area with light pollution, then the longer you open the shutter, the more light pollution will be captured and the brighter your background will be.
If you use a narrower aperture (larger f-number) then you will reduce the background light being captured, but also reduce the light from the stars, meaning that only the extremely bright stars will show up in the final image.
Stacking multiple images will not only make the noise much more controlled (at ISO 100, it should be virtually non-existent), but also the way that the images are blended together will typically keep the background light low while combining the light from the stars.
If you absolutely do not want to stack images, you will need to find a very dark sky area near you, and shoot there. You can use the dark sky map here to research dark areas around you:
You will also need a new moon, or to shoot when the moon is below the horizon, and also shoot when it is truly dark, ideally at least three hours after sunset.
Here's a document I wrote going into more detail about the various types of star photography:
Here's a photo where I didn't use stacking. This was taken in a very dark sky area, but even here you can see the glow from distant lights is clearly showing in the lower half of the photo:
ISO 400, f/2.8, 31 minutes:
Here's a photo where I did use stacking. In this case there was a bright moon, and any attempt to take this in a single exposure would either have captured just a handful of the brightest stars (if I'd used a narrow aperture and low ISO), or have totally overwhelmed the sky. By stacking I was able to capture a huge number of stars without overexposing the sky:
191 stacked photos, f/3.5, ISO 2500, 30 seconds each:
@abirkill Thanks for linking to your guide Alexis, this is something I've wanted to try for a while - will definitely be using your guide when I attempt it! :)
Alexis @abirkill is the true master of star trails and astrophotography... study his work, and ask him a few short, pointed questions... he'll flood you with extensive details, so be prepared to absorb them. he's been my mentor on panorama shots. one day, I'll get away from the city lights and shoot some star trail photos.
@melissachambers , you definitely pointed in the right direction,,. Polaris is your friend in these star trails.
1 hour 20 mins - that's a long one!! - you can just about get star trail shots with a single exposure - but even in ideal conditions they will never be the ones with the 'wow' factor - as you have seen from your light sky (a smaller apeture would lose the stars all together BTW)
Bite the bullet, and stack - you'll be much happier with the results.
In general terms (at 400 ASA) you want to be going for a 30 - 40 second exposure - this prevents all the extra noise and light bleed that you are getting.
Of course, 30 seconds wont give you a set of trails - but that is where decent stacking software comes in.
A good star trail pic may be made up of 2 - 3 hundred 30 second shots, layered together - complex if you use some editing software - but easy as pie if you use the stacking software that Achim Schaller wrote - and that he gives away for free on his website (along with detailed instructions of how to take the pics and use the software)
I tried stacking for the first time this week and turned out amazingly better than one exposure. Be sure to shoot a dark frame too ( same settings but with your lens cap on) so that the program can detect noise. I used StarStax. Details with the image.
@abirkill Thanks for your very detailed reply Alexis, your star trails are AMAZING!!!
Last fall I took a photography class and the teacher wanted us to try this just using a really long exposure, well at the time there was a tropical storm coming through so the clouds would not allow for it (neither would the moon). When I researched it back then it looked like stacking was the best way to do it and I brought that up to him but he was really adamant about the single exposure, so I was outside last night and it was a clear night I figured I'd give it a try!
I think I will try both ways to see what happens, this time maybe only half the time!!! I am going to try to get as close to the settings you used in the ones that you posted. If mine come out half as nice as yours, I'll be happy! I'm also bookmarking your link for reference. Now hopefully these clouds will go away before tonight!
Thanks again
@cameronknowlton ~ It took me forever to find the right spot, every time I thought I found it I'd take a shot to check! Probably about 2 hours of just looking for it! haha
@styru ~~~ Yes I'm going to bite the bullet!!! I still want to try with the single though.
A few people have recommended StarStax, do you know the difference between this one and the one that you have recommended or if there is one?
@archaeofrog ~~~ Thank you for replying and posting your shot! Do you think that if I took a dark frame and stacked it with my long exposure that it would work? I think I'm going to give it a try and see what happens!
@tigerdreamer The document I wrote? It should open without requiring a Google account -- is that not the behaviour you're seeing?
@melissachambers Interesting. Very few star photographers these days recommend a single exposure. Maybe he was a fan of the film days, when of course stacking wasn't particularly feasible.
Getting a dark and cloudless night is certainly the biggest challenge in star photography!
A dark frame for your current photo could be used to reduce the noise in the shot, but would not darken the background in relation to the stars. As @archaeofrog says, it would need to use the same settings and exposure time, and ideally the camera should be at a similar temperature.
Personally I prefer StarStax to the Startrails application, as it's more advanced and includes a number of different blending options which can be used to improve the results, as well as the ability to fill gaps in the trails if you have a pause between shots that is too high. The Startrails app is certainly an excellent option for beginners though, and is probably a little simpler to use than StarStax.
@abirkill ~~ It was a "low light" assignment, he just wanted us using long exposures, and I guess the star trails was to experiment with the bulb setting. I really don't think he put much thought into it since there was the storm and the moon!
I downloaded both stacking programs mentioned, now I'm just waiting for a clear night!
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Fundamentally, and especially with a single image, you will need dark skies if you don't want the background to overwhelm the stars. If you are in an area with light pollution, then the longer you open the shutter, the more light pollution will be captured and the brighter your background will be.
If you use a narrower aperture (larger f-number) then you will reduce the background light being captured, but also reduce the light from the stars, meaning that only the extremely bright stars will show up in the final image.
Stacking multiple images will not only make the noise much more controlled (at ISO 100, it should be virtually non-existent), but also the way that the images are blended together will typically keep the background light low while combining the light from the stars.
If you absolutely do not want to stack images, you will need to find a very dark sky area near you, and shoot there. You can use the dark sky map here to research dark areas around you:
http://www.jshine.net/astronomy/dark_sky/
You will also need a new moon, or to shoot when the moon is below the horizon, and also shoot when it is truly dark, ideally at least three hours after sunset.
Here's a document I wrote going into more detail about the various types of star photography:
https://docs.google.com/a/alexisbirkill.com/document/d/1l1nf4fmFAWddif-wgUrRQGWVviinr7fe9Y-7HRZ0cpQ/edit
Here's a photo where I didn't use stacking. This was taken in a very dark sky area, but even here you can see the glow from distant lights is clearly showing in the lower half of the photo:
ISO 400, f/2.8, 31 minutes:
Here's a photo where I did use stacking. In this case there was a bright moon, and any attempt to take this in a single exposure would either have captured just a handful of the brightest stars (if I'd used a narrow aperture and low ISO), or have totally overwhelmed the sky. By stacking I was able to capture a huge number of stars without overexposing the sky:
191 stacked photos, f/3.5, ISO 2500, 30 seconds each:
@melissachambers , you definitely pointed in the right direction,,. Polaris is your friend in these star trails.
Bite the bullet, and stack - you'll be much happier with the results.
In general terms (at 400 ASA) you want to be going for a 30 - 40 second exposure - this prevents all the extra noise and light bleed that you are getting.
Of course, 30 seconds wont give you a set of trails - but that is where decent stacking software comes in.
A good star trail pic may be made up of 2 - 3 hundred 30 second shots, layered together - complex if you use some editing software - but easy as pie if you use the stacking software that Achim Schaller wrote - and that he gives away for free on his website (along with detailed instructions of how to take the pics and use the software)
His site is: www.startrails.de
...............................
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Last fall I took a photography class and the teacher wanted us to try this just using a really long exposure, well at the time there was a tropical storm coming through so the clouds would not allow for it (neither would the moon). When I researched it back then it looked like stacking was the best way to do it and I brought that up to him but he was really adamant about the single exposure, so I was outside last night and it was a clear night I figured I'd give it a try!
I think I will try both ways to see what happens, this time maybe only half the time!!! I am going to try to get as close to the settings you used in the ones that you posted. If mine come out half as nice as yours, I'll be happy! I'm also bookmarking your link for reference. Now hopefully these clouds will go away before tonight!
Thanks again
A few people have recommended StarStax, do you know the difference between this one and the one that you have recommended or if there is one?
@melissachambers Interesting. Very few star photographers these days recommend a single exposure. Maybe he was a fan of the film days, when of course stacking wasn't particularly feasible.
Getting a dark and cloudless night is certainly the biggest challenge in star photography!
A dark frame for your current photo could be used to reduce the noise in the shot, but would not darken the background in relation to the stars. As @archaeofrog says, it would need to use the same settings and exposure time, and ideally the camera should be at a similar temperature.
Personally I prefer StarStax to the Startrails application, as it's more advanced and includes a number of different blending options which can be used to improve the results, as well as the ability to fill gaps in the trails if you have a pause between shots that is too high. The Startrails app is certainly an excellent option for beginners though, and is probably a little simpler to use than StarStax.
I downloaded both stacking programs mentioned, now I'm just waiting for a clear night!