How to win friends and influence people.
Last night we went to Photography Club (for the love of all that’s holy, don’t even think about calling it Camera Club…you will be removed forthwith and publicly humiliated before being stoned). We’re new comers to this club, and somewhat conveniently the existing members have organised themselves into four groups, as follows:
1. Normal. To be found in the back row.
2. Teetering on the edge of normality. They could be located anywhere within the club rooms.
3. The Cardigans. Located in the first two rows.
4. The Old Boys Club. Members are interchangeable with those of the cardigan variety and can usually be found in the front row.
Two weeks ago we had submitted photos for critique and last night was when the bell tolled as it were. Having said that, this weeks “Guest Critic” is an art teacher, so we thought that we may be alright and come away relatively unscathed. Things I learned from last nights “critique”:
1. Every single point within a photo should have crystal clear focus. Not just the key point of interest, but EVERYTHING. All you know about DOF should be disregarded immediately if not sooner.
2. A truly excellent image should be just as good upside down as it is right way up. WTF???
3. Do not submit a self-portrait. I had been foolish enough to submit two of mine, and the “expert critique” on one of them (called “On Standby”) was this…”I don’t know what to do with this shot, but I don't know that I like it”. That was it. What an immense learning curve.
We left feeling disheartened, disgruntled, discouraged and more than a little twitchy.
Next fortnight we get to submit 6 photos under the “category” of “Versatility”. This shot may be one of them and, after sleeping on it, it’s about all I have to say to that particular “art” teacher.
I am a confirmed and certifiable nutbar with a penchant for skulls, bones, blood, guts, fire and anything slightly peculiar and mostly bizarre. I also...
I have to fav this. My first experience in photo club was wretched. Awful. Mine shot was also a self portrait. And it was the first to be critiqued. Not only was it a self portrait, but it was a sexy one...a larger than life photo of my legs spread out before the class. Why the hell did I submit that?! I wondered. And she hacked it to hell...and was literally dancing in front of the screen laughing at it. I went back maybe one more time...then I quit the club. I was such the youth there, too. Ugh. I get your pain. Did you smoke a cig? how's it going?
Omg! I have had SUCH an unsatisfactory day and this is the first thing that has given me a real chuckle... I'm sorry... I should not be laughing at your pain... If you need help hiding the bodies let me know... In the mean time - fav!
What a horrible experience you went through. I would think such a club should be there to encourage and support! I think your photo is wonderful. I love your expression and lighting!
P.S. Just had a run in with a neighbor and pondering the loss of a friend and totally thinking of needing to read that friggin' book again, cause what I am doing...it aint working:).
@blueberry1222 Thanks very much - yesterday's shot may just make the cut as well! @amandal I haven't had a smoke for over a week now...the corpses are piling up a bit but I'm hiring a digger on the weekend. We'll keep going back, next critique is being done by a lovely lady and professional photographer who we know and that also taught my daughter to surf...as for laughing at your photo - unforgiveable. @northy Pleased to be of assistance. Bring a big shovel...and thank you very much.
@amandal I really like that shot, especially the feet (and I don't have a fetish). I think it's well composed and processed and quite suggestive, certainly tells a story. And I think you should hurt her. As for what you're doing, keep trying - I'm slowly starting to feel better about everything and actually having some clarity of thought. @kwind Thanks very much - that was our thinking as well, but a lot of them just sat there and took it.
@graemestevens She hated the processing and the focus (said the focus was all off), tough to get just right in a selfie (it was in focus though). She was a nutter about the focus spot...I think it was the wrinkly part of the foot that was most focused and that was NOT right. Anywho, I got over it, just didn't need to be a part of that again. I did learn some useful things at the club when I did go and the next reviewer was much more gentle.
Wow...Graeme, I love the angst you portray and the pissed off ness (is that a word?) LOL. Lighting is great! Love it on black with the shadows and you always show such realness/candid-ness in your photos which is refreshing and interesting. Sounds like that club is horrible. What ever happened to encouraging people rather than acting superior and high and mighty? Photography is art which is subjective so no one should feel they have the right to crap all over anyone's point of view. and...@amandal I like you photo too...a lot. Great POV and story there as well. :)
@graemestevens Truly. And today I got my first real payment for a series of photos I took for a friend. It was a gift card and tonight I'm shopping for a new camera bag. Mine's pathetic and ripping.
@skjgraphics Our 2 or 3 other experiences there haven't been too bad, but this one just "ripped my shitbag" as they say. Well, they say it here anyway! And thank you very much, much appreciated. @wenbow Thanks very much, appreciated as always. @rocketman1066 I know, I'm a cad and a bounder! @amandal Now that's a very cool thing to have happen.
@graemestevens I consider myself someone who doesn't fit with society standards, and I'm proud of it; life's too short to conform to what other people think!
@voiceprintz@skjgraphics It's right up there with "exhaustipated"...too tired to give a sh*t... @rangerxenos Likewise - if they don't like it, they need to learn to deal with it.
We ( Hubby and I ) think you should have used forced perspective and better DOF to emphasise the bird gesture. Totally agree with Stephanie, and I am sure pissed off ness is a word, just as much as get f#@*ked ness is.We had a great old laugh over coffee BTW great image :-))
@hermann Ohhh...Sally, Thanks...I'm gonna use that one too regularly! :D Who'd have thought I'd learn so much verbiage here! @graemestevens Haha...Love exhaustipated..i also personally like "confuzzled". :)
I love critics. The thing is values. A critic should always outline what they value before they judge. They should also acknowledge that tastes are varied and that they can be wrong about things. Even expressing why they don't like it is better than the crap you were given. If they cannot verbalise that they are not worth listening to.
Having spoken to a few "photographers" I always find it astonishing when technological perfection gets in the way of a great image. Only since the digital age have we become so obsessed with perfection. The ancient Greeks perfected sculpture and were able to make totally accurate bronzes only to move beyond this and start exaggerating - it is inbuilt in us to go beyond reality (one of the reasons we like blur and DOF).
Your work is a reflection of your values. It is witty, creative, inspired and technically sound (meaning you have control over your tools). These are all rather exceptional qualities.
Seriously enter this image into the next category along with the burning sheep but put them in upside down or with a mirror image or a mirror. Be sure to wear a cardigan.
Oh darn - usually sit in the second row at photography club - will have to rectify this next meeting!! Love the way you express your feelings with both words and photo - well done. That in focus stuff sounds way wrong…..
I know where you are coming from Graeme.. can't just have a 'bird' it has to be doing something... now latest ... can't just have a flower 'It has to be doing something'.... We will see how we go with our this months topic... Temperature.. I could be giving the 'salute' as well....
I'm considering a camera club too, but have felt shy about it. Too bad this "arty" expert was there for you. I disagree with every point you posted .
My friend, a professional photographer who just hung a commission of 65 four foot canvases of her photos in a medical center, was savaged by a judge at her camera club for months. Then found out finally he had huge cartaracts, no wonder no one's work looked sharp to him, or had good colors
The title and the picture made me laugh before I even got to the commentary. I'm not sure what qualifies a person to judge or critique - it really is just a matter of personal opinion, I think. I hope the next "expert" gives you some constructive criticism you can use!
You are so funny. I love the photo and immediately recognized that it would be one of yours. I've been unsure if I wanted to join the local camera club here in Whangas, and hmmm, I'm thinking not. I suspect you have put me off (thankfully). I'm happy to stick with this 365project.
There is a huge difference between shooting for expression and shooting for camera clubs, way back in the dim and distant my art exams was purely photography as I can only do Tech Drawing, I discovered quite quickly what was needed, Perfect focus front to back, subject positioned in the golden ration no distractions, perfect exposure and contrast. It could be a photo of a brick but providing it ticked all the boxes it would get good marks. This is why I would never join a club again!!
Ah the joys of camera clubs. We have a local one and just reading the blurb about them put me off, instead of starting with friendly or helpful or welcoming it was all about crititiquing. So a few friends started our own. Sometimes I get frustrated as they talk about motorbikes all the time but at least it gives me a topic and gets me out with my camera. This shot however is fab, I have a day ahead of me when I know I will be recreating that pose many times, hopefully just in my head! But I have been know to speak a little too freely in the past.
hahahahhaa classic, I too have had mystifying comments from judges, submit it agin to a different judge and just watch the subjectivity reign,
our club is cool though, no cardigans,
Well done Graeme. My work camera club is officially TARPS (The Alternative Rotorua Photographic Society) and was started by a few who attended the "real" one and found it was full of pouncy gits, photo snobs. Ours is much more fun, more like the 365 community where you have freedom to experiment and learn without feeling like a ignorant dork. (Occaisionally wine is involved.)
@hermann Thanks very much...points noted, next time I flip the bird I'll make sure it's massive ;) @maishanny Thanks...there's a few who make it unpleasant but we'll keep trying...maybe. @spanner I completely agree with what you're saying, and I think that "photographers prerogative" plays a large part in any composition. Personally, I take these photos for me - being relatively new to this sport I like to experiment, to have "what if" moments and bugger them all with a rusty pitchfork if they don't like it. And I will never, ever wear a cardigan. @aecasey Oh I always look a bit crazed, and thanks very much :) @eyeamlisa I haven't actually looked at it upside down. I tried but I'm currently on the iPad and the damn screen keeps rotating! Pleased you like it though, much appreciated :) @daneau If I can find her she'll burn...slowly...and thanks :) @happypat LOL, thanks. I'd have a look but the iPad screen keeps rotating to right way up :( @khawbecker Thanks very much :) @dide I have no idea what she was on about and I'd be surprised if she did either. Next week I'm going to get there early and steal someone else's seat...because I'm an evil stirrer. @julzmaioro Thanks and good luck! Our next theme is versatility so I'm going to go well and truly over board I think! @trinda Different tastes alright, but if you're going to critique you should do that, not just criticise...still, if she shows up again bloodshed will ensue and not just from me judging by some of the other comments overheard! There's "nowt as queer as folk" as they say...somewhere... @tabarlett Oh so do I...and we know the next one so I shall have a word in her ear beforehand ;) And thank you very much! @jess1204 It's so crazy it's like running with scissors! Pleased you had a laugh though :) @jules13 we're going to keep trying just in case it was an isolated incident...having said that, I really enjoy it here! @andrewkru Thanks very much...thinking about getting it framed and putting it on my office door... @chippy1402 Thanks very much, appreciated...and they're a funny breed, those who think they know all and try to dictate what we should do... @wearing0 I appreciate people who speak freely. Greatly. And what a great idea, to start an alternative "club". @tomtom Thanks very much indeed...I wasn't trying to put anyone off, but be careful. Be very careful :) @kali66 Lucky you...they're not all bad by any means but the cardigans certainly make their presence felt! @deliad just occasionally you have wine? Hmmm...ok. Sounds like a pretty cool "club" to me though - love it on 365 though, and thank you very much :)
lol - I know what the local camera club posts to Flickr and haven't wandered down to see them as a result so I feel your pain. A friend who is an artist found judging photography very difficult - her problem was that everything had to be in the frame, not disappearing out of the edge, like you do in art all the time
Brilliant. It's how I feel most days. I must say I was very surprised that you do "clubs". Clubs of any kind where you have experts are frightening. Clubs with cardigans...........well that's unexplainable that you can go there!
Great story and pic to match Graeme. All the people on 365 who are members of CAMERA clubs had me thinking that maybe I should have a look at one but not now.
I get that I may deserve a comment like that, but what could you possibly have against my horse? LOL. Seriously though I love this shot. It definitely expresses a very clear message.
@shannejw These guys are so forward thinking that there isn't even a Facebook page and no one argues with the cardigan! @yaorenliu Fair enough, thanks for your finger. @gigiflower Thank you kind lady...we thought we'd give it a go but the cardigans are putting us right off, miserable b'stards that they are. @terryliv Don't let me put you off! I'm sure ours is just an isolated incident! And thanks very much! @peter_1966 Clearly not. Pun intended. :) @not_left_handed Now, you say things like that and suddenly I need quiet time! And thanks very much :) @lynnilou Seriously considering doing just that...they might put me in the Naughty Corner... @spikez Thanks very much indeed :)
This is awesome....and gee I never knew a valid art critique could be I just don't like it....so very helpful and constructive that....my favorite part of the photo? You're smiling right on through :)
....If it were me I'd submit this fabulous image along with a goodbye letter to the CAMERA club! Sure doesn't sound like an ART teacher to me (.Art: the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.) How the heck can a perfectly focused image that is the same upside down and sideways be concidered " creative "?And no self portraits? WTF. I'd say a flaming headshot of the art teacher is in order.LOL
Yes you definitely have to submit this now love it! Loved reading your story, you should also be a writer Graeme you definitely have a way with words made me chuckle. I was seriously thinking about joining a photo club to learn a thing or too but I don't know now it sounds scary.
Hear! Hear!
Here's my two cents: Instantly fav'ed! It's not only a great low key shot, but it also humourous and a briliant to-the-point critique, when paired with the text. Power to you, my man!
Fabulous image, enter it and a shot of our comments as one of the six! I had just looked up our local camera club and was thinking of going along, but maybe I'll wait till after my first lesson. I have a fragile ego allied to an Irish fighting temper ( how the heck I survived as a teacher I'll never know) so maybe I should stay away from the cardigan brigade! Fav
@lisatown Thanks, and they're one of my 5 pairs of docs...the best boots there are! @brigette Thanks very much :) @ceilidh Thanks very ,h - don't let me put you off! If they offend you take a swing!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh I am so behind it will take an all nighter to catch up but this has made my day - I actually have a special album with such photos that everyone used to try and get into - haven't updated it in a while lol - but you and the horse gets a good workout 'round here hahahahahahahahahaha
Ha, well, welcome to the world of weirdo art critics and the old standby, been-there-forever clubs of the world. I've loved some of the critiques. here's my two cents: a critic should not say if he/she loved, liked, disliked anything. The best critic is to point to the things that really caught the eye, and it is really good to see what works well and what could be (in the eye of the critic) done differently. I've had two of those critiques and I left really happy (one time I got 4th place then and the other, nothing). I've also placed without much comment, but the critic commented well on others. I've had an art critic dismiss a photo I submitted because it was of ribs and she's apparently a staunch vegetarian, so my photo got this: "This person apparently loves ribs, which I know nothing about." That's not a critique! But go anyway. It's important to grow a thick skin with these things. I go to enjoy what others do and hope in the end someone really gives me critical feedback that changes the way I take shots. And in the end, look, you got a great shot. Because the critic was an ass. Sometimes, that's all it takes. :)
Ha Ha, I missed this post and reading through it now had to have a laugh, we had camera club last nigh and bugger it all sat in the second row.........But what should be noted is that @dide didn't sit beside us she sat one row back....
Urrgghh!! I had a similar traumatic experience with a f***ing camera club in Tasmania. NEVER again!! If I EVER see another photo of a pink flower, I will fucking nuke it with the nearest atom bomb!!!! I swear to God.
the bitch. Oops, did I say that outloud?
@amandal I haven't had a smoke for over a week now...the corpses are piling up a bit but I'm hiring a digger on the weekend. We'll keep going back, next critique is being done by a lovely lady and professional photographer who we know and that also taught my daughter to surf...as for laughing at your photo - unforgiveable.
@northy Pleased to be of assistance. Bring a big shovel...and thank you very much.
@kwind Thanks very much - that was our thinking as well, but a lot of them just sat there and took it.
@wenbow Thanks very much, appreciated as always.
@rocketman1066 I know, I'm a cad and a bounder!
@amandal Now that's a very cool thing to have happen.
@rangerxenos Likewise - if they don't like it, they need to learn to deal with it.
Having spoken to a few "photographers" I always find it astonishing when technological perfection gets in the way of a great image. Only since the digital age have we become so obsessed with perfection. The ancient Greeks perfected sculpture and were able to make totally accurate bronzes only to move beyond this and start exaggerating - it is inbuilt in us to go beyond reality (one of the reasons we like blur and DOF).
Your work is a reflection of your values. It is witty, creative, inspired and technically sound (meaning you have control over your tools). These are all rather exceptional qualities.
Seriously enter this image into the next category along with the burning sheep but put them in upside down or with a mirror image or a mirror. Be sure to wear a cardigan.
This shot: love the humor and low-key aspect! It looks just as good upside down, but has completely new meaning. ;-)
My friend, a professional photographer who just hung a commission of 65 four foot canvases of her photos in a medical center, was savaged by a judge at her camera club for months. Then found out finally he had huge cartaracts, no wonder no one's work looked sharp to him, or had good colors
our club is cool though, no cardigans,
@maishanny Thanks...there's a few who make it unpleasant but we'll keep trying...maybe.
@spanner I completely agree with what you're saying, and I think that "photographers prerogative" plays a large part in any composition. Personally, I take these photos for me - being relatively new to this sport I like to experiment, to have "what if" moments and bugger them all with a rusty pitchfork if they don't like it. And I will never, ever wear a cardigan.
@aecasey Oh I always look a bit crazed, and thanks very much :)
@eyeamlisa I haven't actually looked at it upside down. I tried but I'm currently on the iPad and the damn screen keeps rotating! Pleased you like it though, much appreciated :)
@daneau If I can find her she'll burn...slowly...and thanks :)
@happypat LOL, thanks. I'd have a look but the iPad screen keeps rotating to right way up :(
@khawbecker Thanks very much :)
@dide I have no idea what she was on about and I'd be surprised if she did either. Next week I'm going to get there early and steal someone else's seat...because I'm an evil stirrer.
@julzmaioro Thanks and good luck! Our next theme is versatility so I'm going to go well and truly over board I think!
@trinda Different tastes alright, but if you're going to critique you should do that, not just criticise...still, if she shows up again bloodshed will ensue and not just from me judging by some of the other comments overheard! There's "nowt as queer as folk" as they say...somewhere...
@tabarlett Oh so do I...and we know the next one so I shall have a word in her ear beforehand ;) And thank you very much!
@jess1204 It's so crazy it's like running with scissors! Pleased you had a laugh though :)
@jules13 we're going to keep trying just in case it was an isolated incident...having said that, I really enjoy it here!
@andrewkru Thanks very much...thinking about getting it framed and putting it on my office door...
@chippy1402 Thanks very much, appreciated...and they're a funny breed, those who think they know all and try to dictate what we should do...
@wearing0 I appreciate people who speak freely. Greatly. And what a great idea, to start an alternative "club".
@tomtom Thanks very much indeed...I wasn't trying to put anyone off, but be careful. Be very careful :)
@kali66 Lucky you...they're not all bad by any means but the cardigans certainly make their presence felt!
@deliad just occasionally you have wine? Hmmm...ok. Sounds like a pretty cool "club" to me though - love it on 365 though, and thank you very much :)
@yaorenliu Fair enough, thanks for your finger.
@gigiflower Thank you kind lady...we thought we'd give it a go but the cardigans are putting us right off, miserable b'stards that they are.
@terryliv Don't let me put you off! I'm sure ours is just an isolated incident! And thanks very much!
@peter_1966 Clearly not. Pun intended. :)
@not_left_handed Now, you say things like that and suddenly I need quiet time! And thanks very much :)
@lynnilou Seriously considering doing just that...they might put me in the Naughty Corner...
@spikez Thanks very much indeed :)
@overalvandaan Thanks very much, much appreciated :)
Here's my two cents: Instantly fav'ed! It's not only a great low key shot, but it also humourous and a briliant to-the-point critique, when paired with the text. Power to you, my man!
oh and great pic
@brigette Thanks very much :)
@ceilidh Thanks very ,h - don't let me put you off! If they offend you take a swing!