I have battled with the whole 'parent trying to shoot child on stage from audience with low light and no tripod' situation all year, and am making only slight progress. Have had lots of disappointments, the ultimate being my daughter's recent presentation at awards night. You know the scenario - you get one, maybe two shots at it. Despite doing my best to set things up before she got on, I still failed with the focus. So, anyway yesterday got another go. Fortunately the music lasted a few minutes and I got to reel off a dozen or so adjusting as I went. This was the best of them achieved when I finally put it on manual and underexposed as much as I could to get the fastest shutter speed. I've posted SOOC except for a slight crop. You can see the exif details on my page. I was on max zoom, shutter 1/60 but had to put ISO up to 3200. I'm actually quite pleased with it considering, but mostly I get mega-fails.
So my question is, what tips can you give me? Setting up a tripod wouldn't have worked from where I was - crept up the aisle to get as close as I could. How do you all prepare your settings beforehand to get maximum opportunity for success with that one shot you get?
And even if I did have a tripod, that only helps with my camera shake, not the movement of the person on stage, doesn't it? In this situation he was reasonably still, but when my daughter walked across the stage she was moving and I wouldn't be able to get a fast enough shutter speed at F4.5 in low light. What to do?
This isn't terrible. :) there is nothing wrong with being "that parent" who sets up the tripod and looks all official. If focus is your concern here, since they are sitting, you could set your focus manually an leave it. You could also inquire about using a flash - it looks like a little school concert, right? This isn't the big leagues. You're there to make memories. If nothing else, bring your big guns and set up as though you're supposed to be doing it. All they can do is tell you to sit down. :) maybe volunteer to take pics for the school's music department website? Get out of the crowd if you can... 1/60 is just beyond the "ok for handheld" realm, so you definitely need a tripod so you can bring the ISO back down to earth.
When I wanted pics of my kids playing youth sports, I just asked the coach if they minded me being inside the fence (baseball)...they didn't mind at all, and I got great pics of my kids and great shots that the coaches used to make an end-of-season slideshow. Never hurts to ask!
@guaranteed Thanks for your suggestions. I'd love to be able to use a tripod, but then I'd have to be way at the back or sides wouldn't I? My zoom wouldn't be enough. Also in this case the performance was 3 minutes in school assembly, so not really the situation for a whole set up :-) Funny thing is I see all these parents holding up their phones and snapping away, and I wonder what sort of shots are they getting?
With using a flash how close do you have to be before it actually makes any difference? Sorry if this question makes me look like a complete novice!
Re shooting sports, I've done this a lot this year and got great results because it's outside. It's the inside shots that have me baffled.
I agree with @guaranteed - ask the school if you can set up to take pictures properly, and offer to let them use the shots afterwards, as well. If it were me, I'd be more than happy to have someone volunteer to take good quality photos of the concerts and other events, and you'll get much better snaps out of it too!
I like this shot. Indoor - low light - no tripod situations are best served with a telephoto lens that opens to f/2.8. That is the solution, but unfortunately, those lenses are very expensive. My lens is like yours, only opens to f/5.6 at 200 mm. So this is the best you can hope for with that limitation.
I always test my settings on other child who come before my babies. You can at least get a sense if its going to work on terms of light and movement blur.
@tandem02 Beautiful shot Kathrin, and that shadow is terrific. I agree it does depend on the amount of light on the subject. You did very well to get that at 1/80 and only 800 ISO.
@kwind Yes I did that before my daughter went across and I got a couple of OK ones of other girls, but stupidly I thought I'd be better off with auto-focus, because my eyes aren't good from a distance. At the crucial point, of course, the focus went haywire! Learnt my lesson from that.
@soboy5 Yes I am limited with what I've got unfortunately. With a tripod though I'd still have to contend with the movement of the subject on stage so it wouldn't really help would it?
This is why professionals will spend $6,000 on the Canon 200mm f/2.0L (or $12,000 on the 400mm f/2.8L).
It sounds like you're doing everything you can with the equipment you have. A high-end flash would help, but the amount of light it'll put out would probably be considered distracting, even at a school concert, and you won't be able to bounce it so it will give harsh shadows.
If it's a once-in-a-lifetime shot, renting equipment is always worth considering.
Make sure you select a specific focus point rather than letting the camera choose, or it'll tend to focus on the wrong thing. Are you using AI Servo mode (where the focus is continually tracking?)
The other option is to get closer, so you can use a 50mm f/1.8 or similar -- excellent low-light performance and wide enough that you can extend the shutter speed a bit. Maybe volunteer to provide photos for the school, and by doing so get access right up to the stage?
@abirkill Thank you so much Alexis for adding your thoughts. I admit that the Al Servo mode is something I still need to work out but it sounds like it's going to help. And yes I wondered if a 50mm would give a better result. I think Santa might be bringing me one so hopefully I can look forward to some better results.
@godders Thanks Paul, yes picking the seat is often tricky - what side of the stage will he be on?! Anti-shake? Just been reading about that. Hmm, seems I have a number of things I can use to get a better result. Appreciate your suggestions.
Hi, I have kids who are in orchestra so I know what you mean about taking shots @ school events. Here are some suggestions. I use a monopod (not a tripod) and stand off to the side to take photos. I only move between songs if possible. In addition as some have pointed out here, I use a fast 200mm lens (f/2.8) which doesn't require a flash. An ISO of 400 to 1600 is good for me. I also shoot in RAW and intentionally shoot under exposed so that I can trick the camera to product a faster shutter. Even @ f/2.8 in poor lighting the camera will struggle and will produce a shutter speed of 1/20 - 1/40 which isn't enough to freeze. When underexposed I can get my camera to 1/80 to 1/160. The picture will look dark on your camera. Once I'm done I upload the shots into lightroom and then crank up the exposure until the picture looks right. I reduce noise if I have to. Your lens @ f/4.5 is going to be a little challenging to get decent shutter but I wouldn't give up. I would select a higher ISO and consider RAW and shooting underexposed and then adjusting later. Here's a recent shot taken using what I just described:
Another suggestion, I submitted 200 shots to the school and now they want me to take shots @ the events which gives me a little more freedom to wonder around during the events. You might want to see if they would allow you to do this as long as you can supply them shots - a win-win I say. You might want to consider a faster lens at some point. You'll get a lot of use out of it probably. Challenge is they aren't cheap but you can find one on eBay. Tamron is always running rebates.
@brianl I'm confused... I've seen a few people on various threads talk about shooting under exposed to "trick" the camera into using a faster shutter speed.... doesn't your camera shoot at the shutter speed you set it to shoot?
@jsw0109 yes it does but due to lighting conditions it may select a shutter I don't like. What might be confusing you is that I shoot in M mode 95% of the time. I guess you could shoot at S "shutter" and achieve the same results but I like the ability to fine tune the exposure setting myself versus having the camera decide.
@jsw0109 Some cameras have modes (Canon's Safety Shift, Nikon's Auto ISO, probably others by other manufacturers) that will override a chosen shutter speed if the camera detects that there's not enough (or too much) light. In other words, if the camera is set to 1/200th, but knows that even with the lens wide open it needs 1/100th to get the correct exposure, it will use 1/100th.
Personally I make sure those modes are disabled for exactly this kind of reason, but some people prefer to have them on. In that case, the only option is to shoot in fully manual mode, or to use exposure compensation to reduce the exposure the camera is aiming to achieve.
One thing to note with pulling underexposed shots up is that you should only do it when you're already at the highest native ISO your camera will allow. A two-stop underexposed ISO 400 shot pulled up two stops in post-processing will be slightly lower quality (noisier, worse colour rendition, etc.) than a correctly-exposed ISO 1600 shot.
Some may also be interested to note that for non-native ISOs (marked L, H1, H2 on Canon, not sure about others), the camera is doing exactly the same pulling process -- at H1, it takes a 1-stop underexposed shot at the highest available native ISO, and then increases the exposure by a stop as it saves it.
@jsw0109 yes it does, I'm not disagreeing with you. I tried to explain that in low light situations you can shoot the picture underexposed (up to 2 f-stops by making a manual adjustment)- which will knock up the shutter speed by a lot. Try it. And then when importing the RAW file correct the exposure and everything will lighten up as long as you don't go overboard. You will not see much degradation to the quality of the photo- you won't. Or at least you'll get a shot versus a blurred mess. For the folks who have hi-end Canon's ect, (Mark II and III) this is a mute issue considering their sensors are full frame and do incredibly well in low light.
I don't try to over think it too much. If I don't like how the camera is deciding the shot I override it.
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When I wanted pics of my kids playing youth sports, I just asked the coach if they minded me being inside the fence (baseball)...they didn't mind at all, and I got great pics of my kids and great shots that the coaches used to make an end-of-season slideshow. Never hurts to ask!
With using a flash how close do you have to be before it actually makes any difference? Sorry if this question makes me look like a complete novice!
Re shooting sports, I've done this a lot this year and got great results because it's outside. It's the inside shots that have me baffled.
I agree with @guaranteed - ask the school if you can set up to take pictures properly, and offer to let them use the shots afterwards, as well. If it were me, I'd be more than happy to have someone volunteer to take good quality photos of the concerts and other events, and you'll get much better snaps out of it too!
I like your shot how it is :)
I would like to know myself how to improve the low-light and movement shots :)
It sounds like you're doing everything you can with the equipment you have. A high-end flash would help, but the amount of light it'll put out would probably be considered distracting, even at a school concert, and you won't be able to bounce it so it will give harsh shadows.
If it's a once-in-a-lifetime shot, renting equipment is always worth considering.
Make sure you select a specific focus point rather than letting the camera choose, or it'll tend to focus on the wrong thing. Are you using AI Servo mode (where the focus is continually tracking?)
The other option is to get closer, so you can use a 50mm f/1.8 or similar -- excellent low-light performance and wide enough that you can extend the shutter speed a bit. Maybe volunteer to provide photos for the school, and by doing so get access right up to the stage?
Another suggestion, I submitted 200 shots to the school and now they want me to take shots @ the events which gives me a little more freedom to wonder around during the events. You might want to see if they would allow you to do this as long as you can supply them shots - a win-win I say. You might want to consider a faster lens at some point. You'll get a lot of use out of it probably. Challenge is they aren't cheap but you can find one on eBay. Tamron is always running rebates.
Personally I make sure those modes are disabled for exactly this kind of reason, but some people prefer to have them on. In that case, the only option is to shoot in fully manual mode, or to use exposure compensation to reduce the exposure the camera is aiming to achieve.
One thing to note with pulling underexposed shots up is that you should only do it when you're already at the highest native ISO your camera will allow. A two-stop underexposed ISO 400 shot pulled up two stops in post-processing will be slightly lower quality (noisier, worse colour rendition, etc.) than a correctly-exposed ISO 1600 shot.
Some may also be interested to note that for non-native ISOs (marked L, H1, H2 on Canon, not sure about others), the camera is doing exactly the same pulling process -- at H1, it takes a 1-stop underexposed shot at the highest available native ISO, and then increases the exposure by a stop as it saves it.
I shot some video today using one leg on a small tripod as a monopod,made it much easier to steady the camera.
Don't think of a tripod as a static device !
I don't try to over think it too much. If I don't like how the camera is deciding the shot I override it.