Long story short: I have a budget of around $500 (Canadian) to put towards lighting/lighting accessories. I'd like some opinions what YOU would buy if you were just getting started with off-camera lighting, if this was your budget.
The long story ;)
Around Christmas time I was looking at upgrading my Rebel XS and kit lenses. Hubby told me to wait, and when we sold our rental property, we could each use some of the funds from the sale to buy "toys". Fast forward to now, and I've recently gotten a Canon 6D, a new speedlite, and a bunch of snazzy new lenses... and hubby is telling me "I guess we forgot lighting. You should get some lighting. Figure about $500?" (I know, right?? My theory is he's got some expensive thing he's eyeing for himself, so he's encouraging me to spend money up to that point ;) )
I've tried looking into it some, but lighting is confusing coming from the complete beginner's point of view! And with running around after a toddler and doing the whole hobby farm thing, I just don't have a lot of time right now to research it all. I just want something fairly versatile that I can start out with, and that isn't going to have to be replaced in a year if I get more into using lighting/doing studio work. I imagine people are going to ask "what are you trying to light?" Well, I don't know! I like to try a bit of everything (exception being that I have no interest in ever trying to shoot someone's wedding for them - oh, the stress! I can't even imagine...) I'm not really expecting to be dragging the lights around with me (that's what I have speedlites for) but I suppose anything's possible....
AlienBees sound like they're pretty popular for budget lights? I have no idea what pieces or parts would be the best "bang for buck" though.... or even if they're the right way to go!
What I own/have access to already:
Canon 6D body
Canon 600EX-RT speedlite, and a Nissin Di622 speedlite (manual only - ettl on it does not work with the 6D)
A light socket style optical slave (no changeable settings on it)
Some random stands, a couple of umbrellas (one white and one translucent, I think?), and a flat circular reflector (5-in-1, translucent, silver, gold, white, black).
I'm no help to you but my response will mean your topic stays in the hot discussions for just that little bit longer... and I'm keen to hear what others have to say.
But.
If I had $500 to spend, I'd buy beer and wait for the sun to come up.
If I had the money, I'd get this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Square-Perfect-SP3500-Complete-Portrait-Studio-Kit-w-Flashes-Softboxes-More-/310481496014 It also sells for 310 on Amazon, and has 4 stars with 54 reviews (and that does not include backdrops). And one of the bad reviews was about how you couldn't radio control all 3 lights at once.LOL (guess they didn't understand the slave.) I noticed in one of the reviews the gal said it worked well as strobe and continuous, so I looked and yup, can be used as both.
@bobfoto I like your idea, I would like to hear the responses too, and I would like to buy beer too, but it would have to be English (the real ale kind!) Since the sun will probably never come up again here (what summer?), the beer may have to wait!!......and I may need to buy lighting!
@kaleidoscopeyes@mandyj92@nicolaeastwood - ok, hoping someone very clever with lighting comes along and helps me out here. I was keen for this thread to progress. At least @m9f9l has helped out....
@bobfoto@m9f9l
I'm with both these guys. Thanks for the suggestion Jason. I'm off to the LCBO to make my purchase :)
If I had money to spend on camera gear and lighting I would opt for this kit. It's basic but has everything. I have something similar that I got from ebay. It's not the highest quality but for just starting out I like mine. I'll upgrade one day when I get good and photography.
OK, well here’s my twopenny-worth, for what it’s worth (logic dictates it’s probably around two pence).
Considering what you already have, and that it’s pretty much a manual-flash system, if I were in your position I would consider the following. I should add that I too am only a beginner in flash photography, so I don’t claim to be giving you the definitively best advice, just advice based on my own very limited experience. You may be pleased to know that my recommendations aren’t spending anywhere near your $500 budget!
1. The first item is quite a contentious item, some\many will say you don’t need one, but in my opinion (and experience) it’s one of the best photography items I have EVER bought. A light/flash meter. No you don’t actually need one if you’re prepared to (and have the time to) take trial and error shots, or you have a brain capable of calculating advanced hyperbolic guide number & distance mathematics, but my experience with working with manual flash is that a good meter never fails to nail the absolutely perfect exposure on every first attempt. One of the most popular models is the Sekonic L-308s OR the Sekonic L-358 which is a better model and you can buy used on EBay for cheaper than a new 308. I bought a used L-358 (£150) and it’s wonderful. There are also many situations when it works better than the camera (reflective) meter in non-flash ambient light situations.
2. Wireless triggers. ‘Pocket Wizards’ if you’re made of money, or ‘Yongnuo RF-603’s if you’re not. Infrared triggering systems work fine in most indoor situations, but wireless systems are far more reliable, particularly if you’re using off-camera flash outside. They only work as manual flash triggers but they are absolutely excellent (and have numerous favourable reviews). I have four, one for each of two flashes, one for the camera, and one as a remote shutter release (using the supplied camera-specific shutter cord). They cost all of £10 each (I bought a pack of four on E-Bay for £41).
3. A softbox. I bought a Kaavie 32” square softbox (£62), and it provides a beautiful soft light, AND it’s a reasonable price for a very well made softbox. Part of me wishes I had bought the smaller 24” square one (£50) but only because the 32” model is a little bit large and cumbersome, nothing related to the quality of its light.
IF I had $500 I am certain I would find other items to purchase, but the above are the ones I would consider buying (and in my case, have bought) initially.
Like I said, I’m not remotely an expert in flash photography, in fact I’m a novice, but I hope I can contribute to a consensus which will help steer you towards some sensible buying decisions.
@m9f9l@bobfoto ha ha ha... I was out bush for the weekend getting some R&R.... It was just me, my dog, chainsaw, and unlimited amount of wood.... Not to mention a bottle of rum as I was camping in the snowy's.
Now to answer the question at hand.
If i were you I would look at having at least 2 x canon 600 speedlite. They have wireless built in so you dont need to worry about remote triggers and they also use ETTL which means you dont need to have to worry about learning how to manually set your lights.
They are easy to carry, you can put them in all sorts of places and you can use them in light shaping tools like umbrellas.
It also means you can use them for your everyday stuff, unlike studio lights were they become very specific and given that you don't really know what you are after i would suggest you might buy them only to find that they are a pain.
After you have used multiple speedlites together you will know if you need to go to the next level and at that point you will have a better understanding of the type of photography you want to do, and this will help you buy the correct studio lights.
You should be looking to get your toys to at least:
2 x 600 speedlites
1 x remote controler for the 600 or get another 600
2 x light stands to support your lights. - ??
2 x umbrellas - I use mine in 40inch umbrellas but you dont need them that big. - Half way check
1 x 5-in-one deflector - This will help you bounce the light around. - check
From there you can look at the different light shaping tools for the speedlites or if you need to put a few of them together to boost your output. (this will depend on your style).
Ok. Now having said that the Canon speedlites are not cheap but that is my way of thinking... I don't like buying things twice so I buy what I consider to be the best in both money and functionality.
Thanks @bobfoto. I had meant to add that I nearly fell off my chair reading your initial response, and if it doesn't end up in The Oxford Book of Quotations', then there is no justice this world!
Argh this is a tough one for me without really knowing what you exactly want them for - how much space you have etc
If its truly truly for studio / indoor use only, then a great starter kit is the bowens 400x400
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bowens-Gemini-400-400-Umbrella-Kit-Monolight-Flash-Kit-/390606752567?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5af1fa0b37
However, if you're lighting a small room thats all white, this will be WAY too much power for you and you'd be better off with 200s. But that means you wont have enough power for a bigger room.
Alternatively you could look at a cheaper brand like interfit
Also, if its studio lighting, dont be afraid to get a second hand pair of bowens - these things are pretty rock solid and you generally wont go wrong getting second hand and saving yourself a few dollars
Alienbees i've heard are decent and may actually be your best bet. If you purchase these, try to get ones that you can travel with as well and suppliment your portable lighting kit. Alot of strobists use them
http://strobist.blogspot.co.uk/
EDIT: These last images all used by bowens 400x400 set in various locations
All white large room:
Medium size room with lots of brows:
Large octa as a background, silver beauty dish in front
last note.. depending on what you're shooting, you'll want to save up and get a few light modifiers too...
- softbox
- octabox
- reflector
- beauty dish
- snoot
Thanks so much for the replies! I'm really all over the place with what I want... I actually have very little space right now (we're building a house soon, but in the meantime we're crammed into a trailer).
@darrellburnett I'm pretty sure my dad still has a good light meter around from his film days. I'm sure it wont have all the bells and whistles of the new digital ones, but it's a start? I may look into the pocket wizards (or similar) too.... tried my Nissin as an optical slave this evening, and it's definitely not the most sensitive!
@agima At some point I do want another radio flash that will "talk" to the 600 (I got the 600 for a new flash precisely because I didn't want to be limited for the future)... but one more 600 flash would eat my entire current budget. Kind of hoping one of Canon's upgrades of the cheaper flash models will include radio control!
@toast Love your examples with the bowens, thanks! As I mentioned above, I don't have a lot of room atm... but I also don't want to underpower myself when I don't know what I'll be doing in the future. And thanks for the article link... I think I'm actually leaning in this direction now, cheap and light, and see how it goes... at least until I have a little more elbow room!
And @bobfoto $500 buys a lot of beer... party at your place then? XD
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But.
If I had $500 to spend, I'd buy beer and wait for the sun to come up.
If I had the money, I'd get this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Square-Perfect-SP3500-Complete-Portrait-Studio-Kit-w-Flashes-Softboxes-More-/310481496014 It also sells for 310 on Amazon, and has 4 stars with 54 reviews (and that does not include backdrops). And one of the bad reviews was about how you couldn't radio control all 3 lights at once.LOL (guess they didn't understand the slave.) I noticed in one of the reviews the gal said it worked well as strobe and continuous, so I looked and yup, can be used as both.
Where are you @agima ?
I'm with both these guys. Thanks for the suggestion Jason. I'm off to the LCBO to make my purchase :)
If I had money to spend on camera gear and lighting I would opt for this kit. It's basic but has everything. I have something similar that I got from ebay. It's not the highest quality but for just starting out I like mine. I'll upgrade one day when I get good and photography.
OK, well here’s my twopenny-worth, for what it’s worth (logic dictates it’s probably around two pence).
Considering what you already have, and that it’s pretty much a manual-flash system, if I were in your position I would consider the following. I should add that I too am only a beginner in flash photography, so I don’t claim to be giving you the definitively best advice, just advice based on my own very limited experience. You may be pleased to know that my recommendations aren’t spending anywhere near your $500 budget!
1. The first item is quite a contentious item, some\many will say you don’t need one, but in my opinion (and experience) it’s one of the best photography items I have EVER bought. A light/flash meter. No you don’t actually need one if you’re prepared to (and have the time to) take trial and error shots, or you have a brain capable of calculating advanced hyperbolic guide number & distance mathematics, but my experience with working with manual flash is that a good meter never fails to nail the absolutely perfect exposure on every first attempt. One of the most popular models is the Sekonic L-308s OR the Sekonic L-358 which is a better model and you can buy used on EBay for cheaper than a new 308. I bought a used L-358 (£150) and it’s wonderful. There are also many situations when it works better than the camera (reflective) meter in non-flash ambient light situations.
2. Wireless triggers. ‘Pocket Wizards’ if you’re made of money, or ‘Yongnuo RF-603’s if you’re not. Infrared triggering systems work fine in most indoor situations, but wireless systems are far more reliable, particularly if you’re using off-camera flash outside. They only work as manual flash triggers but they are absolutely excellent (and have numerous favourable reviews). I have four, one for each of two flashes, one for the camera, and one as a remote shutter release (using the supplied camera-specific shutter cord). They cost all of £10 each (I bought a pack of four on E-Bay for £41).
3. A softbox. I bought a Kaavie 32” square softbox (£62), and it provides a beautiful soft light, AND it’s a reasonable price for a very well made softbox. Part of me wishes I had bought the smaller 24” square one (£50) but only because the 32” model is a little bit large and cumbersome, nothing related to the quality of its light.
IF I had $500 I am certain I would find other items to purchase, but the above are the ones I would consider buying (and in my case, have bought) initially.
Like I said, I’m not remotely an expert in flash photography, in fact I’m a novice, but I hope I can contribute to a consensus which will help steer you towards some sensible buying decisions.
Good luck!
Darrell (@darrellburnett)
Now to answer the question at hand.
If i were you I would look at having at least 2 x canon 600 speedlite. They have wireless built in so you dont need to worry about remote triggers and they also use ETTL which means you dont need to have to worry about learning how to manually set your lights.
They are easy to carry, you can put them in all sorts of places and you can use them in light shaping tools like umbrellas.
It also means you can use them for your everyday stuff, unlike studio lights were they become very specific and given that you don't really know what you are after i would suggest you might buy them only to find that they are a pain.
After you have used multiple speedlites together you will know if you need to go to the next level and at that point you will have a better understanding of the type of photography you want to do, and this will help you buy the correct studio lights.
You should be looking to get your toys to at least:
2 x 600 speedlites
1 x remote controler for the 600 or get another 600
2 x light stands to support your lights. - ??
2 x umbrellas - I use mine in 40inch umbrellas but you dont need them that big. - Half way check
1 x 5-in-one deflector - This will help you bounce the light around. - check
From there you can look at the different light shaping tools for the speedlites or if you need to put a few of them together to boost your output. (this will depend on your style).
Ok. Now having said that the Canon speedlites are not cheap but that is my way of thinking... I don't like buying things twice so I buy what I consider to be the best in both money and functionality.
If its truly truly for studio / indoor use only, then a great starter kit is the bowens 400x400
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bowens-Gemini-400-400-Umbrella-Kit-Monolight-Flash-Kit-/390606752567?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5af1fa0b37
However, if you're lighting a small room thats all white, this will be WAY too much power for you and you'd be better off with 200s. But that means you wont have enough power for a bigger room.
Alternatively you could look at a cheaper brand like interfit
Also, if its studio lighting, dont be afraid to get a second hand pair of bowens - these things are pretty rock solid and you generally wont go wrong getting second hand and saving yourself a few dollars
Alienbees i've heard are decent and may actually be your best bet. If you purchase these, try to get ones that you can travel with as well and suppliment your portable lighting kit. Alot of strobists use them
http://strobist.blogspot.co.uk/
EDIT: These last images all used by bowens 400x400 set in various locations
All white large room:
Medium size room with lots of brows:
Large octa as a background, silver beauty dish in front
Medium sized room, silver beauty dish feathered
- softbox
- octabox
- reflector
- beauty dish
- snoot
@darrellburnett I'm pretty sure my dad still has a good light meter around from his film days. I'm sure it wont have all the bells and whistles of the new digital ones, but it's a start? I may look into the pocket wizards (or similar) too.... tried my Nissin as an optical slave this evening, and it's definitely not the most sensitive!
@agima At some point I do want another radio flash that will "talk" to the 600 (I got the 600 for a new flash precisely because I didn't want to be limited for the future)... but one more 600 flash would eat my entire current budget. Kind of hoping one of Canon's upgrades of the cheaper flash models will include radio control!
@toast Love your examples with the bowens, thanks! As I mentioned above, I don't have a lot of room atm... but I also don't want to underpower myself when I don't know what I'll be doing in the future. And thanks for the article link... I think I'm actually leaning in this direction now, cheap and light, and see how it goes... at least until I have a little more elbow room!
And @bobfoto $500 buys a lot of beer... party at your place then? XD
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/YONGNUO-YN560-III-YN-560lll-Wrieless-Trigger-Speedlite-Flash-for-Canon-Camera-/251285277237?pt=Digital_Camera_Flashes&hash=item3a81c50a35&_uhb=1
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Yongnuo-YN-565EX-TTL-Flash-Speedlite-for-Canon-5DII-50D-60D-40D-400D-450D-500D-/170884273541?pt=Digital_Camera_Flashes&hash=item27c97f1585&_uhb=1