I noticed that I've done this a few times both here on 365project and on a FB groups I follow. This being, providing constructive feedback on images. I noticed that on 365project, 99% of the comments given on images are positive messages. One of the reasons why I seem to enjoy this community is the supportive nature of its members.
But it seems that I find myself at times providing constructive feedback when I comment on an image. I haven't received any negative feedback on my comments so I haven't really given any thoughts about it until I remember that there is a critique section in the discussion page and maybe constructive feedback should be given then and the comment boxes isn't a forum for those messages.
But then I realize the positive messages that people put in the comment boxes about one's image is feedback but just all positive. Does that suggest the rules of etiquette for comment boxes might be "If you have nothing nice to say about something, it best not to say anything". (Note: I always provide positive feedback and try to phrase the constructive feedback as it be great to see this tried... etc).
@davidtom As a relatively new member here, I have wondered the same myself. I have experimented by posting nearly identical pictures that I have worked on and like to 365, and to two other forums where I sometimes participate. One of them has a 'code' that you put in your picture's description depending on if you want critiques, and how technical or harsh you can stand them, also if others are welcome to grab your pix and apply their own edits, and post it back in your comment thread. The problem in that group is that no matter if you ask for critiques or not, the vultures pounce ~ and I find that what they usually gig me for (this is a personal observation) are things I have not learned yet. As a rule, you either get pounced on or ignored, because it is a big group, and everyone sees everything in the feed.
The other group is run like a forum, and has a critique discussion thread, like this one, but it really the only busy thread on the site, along with a 'general discussion' thread ~ also there are a limited number of 'senior members' who are allowed to critique, and they are mostly very knowledgeable and keep within what they think you can do with what you know. Trouble there is that you might wait three or four days for someone to get to your pix.
Here it seems that the focus is to post something~ anything~ every day to keep the interest going. There are peeps here that I am finding that I admire, and I usually ask about a technique they are using if I am curious. Everyone has been kind and gracious.
Maybe 365 could use some more feed-back options, but after 6 weeks, I'm kinda at the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it!' place. If I need a photo shredded, I have other places to post.
@davidtom
I've been a 365 member on and off since 2011 and I would certainly say that there is a "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" feel about this site. Certainly there are a few members who are more than happy to suggest things or whatnot, but they are few and far between.
Honestly, that's one of the reasons I don't post here much, I don't really feel like I learn anything. But again, the member count here is large so it's impossible for EVERYONE to get the feedback they want.
I've been floating around 365 for some years now... when I want critique I ask for it. That said I won't be offended if someone offers critique/ suggestions for improvement on any of my pictures, but I have seen some folk here who don't take well to un-asked for critique, and must admit I always feel a bit sorry for them.
From what I've seen here, many folk use 365 almost as a "photo diary," and are not here to improve their photography... for them it's just a hobby, a way they love to spend their free time, and if that's the case, having someone telling you how to improve your photos could be a bit dis-heartening! My basic advice would be don't offer it, unless the person is asking for it. (some people mention in their bio's that they are always open for critique.)
Personally, I dislike running anyone's photo down, (and critiquing to a small degree always does that), I've found it far better, to compliment people on their specific skill, encourage them to go in the line of photography that their style tends to lead to, and only offer small "suggestions" for cropping, straightening, ect.
At the end of the day, photography is art, and while there are basic guidelines/rules every one has their own style. I'd hate to crush someone by inflicting my ideals on their photography, just because our style is different!
I've been on this site for a few years now. And when I started it was for the 365 project. Taking a photo every day to document your life. And that is why most people start. It is about taking a photo every day, not a masterpiece every day. After a few months I really found an interest in photography and try to improve. But for a lot of people it stays at the hobby of taking a photo every day.
I generally don't give critique on people's pictures. I do point out what I like, not just say great shot. It also depends on the shot and the person that took it. If the shot is from someone that takes diary shots and they don't pay attention to technique, I comment more about their diary entry, then about the quality of the photo. I also like to follow peoples lifes throught their diaries and their experiences with taking the shot. That almost means more to me then the quality of the shot. And from the comments that I get, it seems its like that for lots of people on here. They really feel with you when something good or bad is happening in your life.
When people say in their narrative that they don't like this or that or are not totally happy with the shot, and I see something I would do different I tell them what I would do or what might work. Then you know people will appreciate it.
Personally I like the positive fibe on this site. I like hearing from people what they llike about my shots. The shots I post are the way I like it. If there is something I am not happy with I will tell that in my narrative. That is my way of letting people know they can give improvements. If I'm really happy with my shot and it is the way I want it, I don't prefer to get critique (not even constructive), since it is the way I wanted it. By then I've put a lot of thought in the shot and considered alternatives. So critique then is just a difference in taste to me.
I invite comment and critique. We've had this discussion before and decided that a code (CW) for 'Critique welcome' would be a way to let ppl know it's ok to rip something to shreds. I LOVE it when ppl offer suggestions. I ASKED for feedback earlier this week. I think everyone's mileage varies but I, for one, have broad shoulders and know I'm only going to improve if others are willing to point me in directions of that improvement.
Good discussion. Most people are very encouraging and kind in their comments, I've noticed. I try and be encouraging and only occasionally feel that I'm able to constructively crit someone's image or suggest they try something else, but that is normally because they've written something like they're unhappy with the outcome, or wanted to try something and it didn't quite work, etc.
I think it's simple... if you're wanting constructive criticism/feedback on your photo's, you should ask for it in your description.
Interesting discussion, and lots of good points raised. I'm pretty new here, but my experience w/ other sites is that offering unsolicited critique is risky. While some folk may appreciate it, other might not. And there can be a real art to providing critique w/o offending even folk who have asked for it. I've seen some people get their feelings hurt. Consequently, I just don't go "there".
Of course, I'm probably not qualified anyway, so it works out OK.
Generally, I welcome constructive comments, as long as they're done in a constructive manner. Some sort of "CW" code could be useful, if it was widely understtod.
@davidtom Very interesting topic. I've been on 365 for 3 years and it is the friendliest photography site I've ever been on. Personally, I never offer unsolicited advice about anything, photographic or non-photographic. On 365, I follow the rule my mother taught me when I was growing up - if I have nothing nice to say, I say nothing.
I like to review the "new faces" section and leave positive feedback for folks that are new to photography. Folks did it for me and I appreciate it. So much of photography is artistic interpretation and if an image catches my eye, then I really don't care if it's not technically perfect.
I think the wonderful thing about 365 is that it is for everyone, there are the photo diarists, the beginners, the improvers and the downright amazing. It is an awesome commitment to try and post on a daily basis and no one can create a masterpiece every day. I think unless someone asks for constructive criticism you should be very gentle with any comments, the world is a harsh place.............l love the kindness of 365 long may it continue and as ever thanks @scrivna
Many people, such as myself, will post in their profile "Constructive Criticism welcome!" I find that most people are open to it, mostly because people on here don't usually "attack" a photo. Usually the criticism is done in a nice way, such as, "If you cropped it a little on the left, help draw your eye to the flower."
Thanks for your input. I'm starting to realize that 365 Project is a lot different photography hosting site in comparison to Flickr or 500px. The community members that are part of this site are here for wider reange of reasons and even their goals for participating in a 365 day project exist for different reasons. As someone of you seem to suggest, the art of photography might not be the primary purpose for their involvement.
What I find interesting is the "Theme and Competition" Discussion forum here on 365project. Next to the "General: category (the catch all of topic themes), the "Theme and Competition" forum has ten times more posting than the remaining forums. So there is definitely an interest in participating in theme projects and theme competitions. For those that are participating in the competition portion, it is assumed that the participant is asking to have their image judge in some manner. This is where I ended up giving some constructive feedback based on how I as a single viewer interpret the image ( for example: Nice in the use of B&W. It would be interesting to see this image in colour ). I noticed that is where I would provide this unsolicited constructive feedback instead of unsolicited positive feedback (which everyone generally does).
I guess the one thing that echo in my mind is an article I read a number of years ago written from a professional photographer. It was basically a rant about how the photography industry is being flooded by wanna be professional photographers thinking that after a few years of shooting pictures and having their parents and friends all compliment their images on Flickr, that it given these new photographer this false ego boost about their abilities. Yesterday on FB, someone made the first comment on a inexperience photographer's fashion portrait about "Nice Lighting", where I saw distracting shadows in the image. I had to comment and give some more valuable feedback.
That is why I hesitate with the whole "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say nothing" approach when all nice things people say may end up causing more issues. You can take this theory outside of photography. I've heard arguments that praising young kids or adults for accomplishments not really earned will just give those people a false sense of entitlement. We are so worried about having people fail and hurting their feelings that sometimes we convince ourselves that we live in a lie.
@davidtom Come on over and talk smack about my pix any time. Just be cheerful about it, and be sure it isn't something that is completely out of my realm. ~ Marci
hmmm... what the others have said... i personally welcome constructive feedback, although i don't always ask for it specifically... that said, i am always hesitant to offer feedback because i figure: "who am i to think that i have the skills and experience to critique someone else's work?"... if someone expresses frustration with an image they're working on and i can think of something that might help, i will offer up some suggestions of things they could try, and i'm always happy to answer questions about how i do things for whatever that is worth...
i know lots of folks really would prefer not to get critiqued... they've actually said so, and hey - i can respect that...
i get what you're saying in the "nice lighting" example... it's a difficult situation tho'... we're a nice community and tend NOT to descend like vultures... maybe the lighting isn't perfect - but maybe it's really nice even tho' imperfect... maybe it's the nicest lighting that photog has captured in a while... maybe the overall image is average and the best thing about it is the lighting and the person commenting was looking for something positive to say... and maybe the shadows you found were distracting were, in the view of the photog or the person who said "nice lighting" actually something of interest... it's all kind of subjective, isn't it?
anyway, i'm pretty tough and always appreciate honest feedback... even if i end up not agreeing with it, i find it extremely helpful to get others' perspectives...
@davidtom so here's my take. I'm on year three. Each year, my profile states my goals. I'm only going to really comment if someone asks a question on my photo or provides constructive criticism (i.e. a suggestion that would improve the photo, not something that can potentially demean my skill level--nothing gained by that). I always feel free to comment with suggestions, but then again, almost everyone I follow feels comfortable with that. I don't "follow for follow." I have been in a photographic society for a bit over a year now, and the best monthly critiques start with the strengths of the shot, and then it progresses to some suggestions for improvement. Whether one "likes" or "loves" a shot is beside the point in the end. I look at things for technical merit (but also for artistic license that breaks all the rules). Like others have said here on this thread, 365 is about taking AND posting a photo a day. That's a HUGE task for anyone joining this site. I'm in year 3 and don't feel compelled to follow those parameters, but if I hadn't my first year, I would not understand why I love photography so much. :_
Honestly? I do this just because I enjoy it. Everyone has their own style of photography and everyone is at different levels...someone might not agree on someone else's POV for instance...but if the photographer liked that POV, then that's the photographer's perrogative. I mean, if someone critiques one of my photos, I would take it constructively...but if it seems to be a matter of taste, there's nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree. I believe it says somewhere on the site that if you want critique you should ask for it..otherwise, it's not typical for someone to critique it. I think most people are just being supportive of each other and showing their interest in their photographs. Not everyone on here considers themselves "photographers"....they use the site as a photo journal for the year. Besides....above all else, I have met some of the nicest folks on here, and I absolutely love sharing my passion with others in the same boat. I agree with @northy...who am I to critique someone else's work?? If they ask me, I'll be happy to help, but otherwise, I just try to see their vision. Typically, people that are eager to learn will ask for help in whatever they need the help in. :)
The problem is with critiquing is that it is subjective. There is no-one qualified on this site to critique any other (without being invited) because we are not working with the same guidelines. Our values are different as are our tastes. How can anyone of us critique with purpose in a few lines? Who has the time? There was/is a mentor group on here where people paired up and worked together. That is a more realistic forum for proper critiquing.
I believe people do the themes/challenges more because it helps keep focus or purpose with our individual projects. It keeps us active when inspiration may be low and is interesting to see how others respond to a theme.
Tell people what you like about an image. Don't tell them how they can improve it. This is not Flickr, it is 365. Very different. There are many exceptional photographers on here and many amateurs. The support is a big part of what makes this site good. If you want proper constructive critiquing you have to set out your manifesto/purpose and engage in a very different way than this site works. Rant over.
The input has been interesting and the message mostly the same. Its generally best to not provide criticism unless asked. I can accept that and be a team player :-)
Although I will point out two things... I actually used the word feedback in my statement and I think it is different from criticism. Criticism is the act of judging or evaluating while feedback is the act of returning information from an action or stimulus. In regards to evaluating or judging a person's work, then Spanner and others raise the point about who would be qualified to judge. However, providing feedback to an artist is much more interesting as it focus on how a viewer perceives the artwork (i.e. photographic image). For example, taking a look at the winner of the World Press Photo 2014, I wouldn't be qualified to critique the winning image but I am able to state that "I feel that there is an intimate moment happening between the two men but the shadow on the left keeps drawing my eyes away from the men." I'm not challenging the photographer's work but expressing how I view the work. Maybe the photographer see value in this distraction as it may reinforce the story of the Gay men in Russia have to hide in the shadows. If so, the photographer's capture was dead on.
The 2nd observation I like to make is that we may not be qualified to provide criticism but we seem to be qualified to provide approval and praise. It is still an act of judging. "Amazing Capture", "Great POV", "Beautiful" are words of praise without real substance. I find them as valuable as the "like" button on Facebook or other photo hosting sites. But it does make people feel good.
So "Great Input" from everyone and "Jolly Good" :-)
Sorry, I can also be a bit of a smart ass at times. As you may have noticed in my past threads, I like to challenge the way people think and based on the views and replies, some of you like a good conversation.
Okay my two pennies worth. As an amateur completely when I started here had it been like flicker, or many of the other photo websites I'd have lasted as long as I have lasted on them, a few days before my confidence fails and I feel very inadequate. I am nearing my end of year 1. No doubt when you look at my work you will see very much an amateur still, but I feel I have grown in my technical, creative and passion for photography and that is through the gentle praise of this site. i can see it in people I have followed through the year, @motherjane is one who springs to mind. She started at a similar time to me, and I can see how much she has grown photographically over the year, I bet my two cents she'll say that's primarily through positive praise and comments that give you the boost to go shoot something again.
@davidtom Thank you for starting the thread. I started my project at the beginning of the year and soon started to have the same questions as you. I have come to realise though that positive comments are just as useful as critical ones, you just need to put in the extra work yourself in trying to understand which elements made your composition, POV, DOF, etc etc, stand out.
This is definitely a very interesting debate! When I first started here it was a confidence boost not to be criticised as you know that your skills are not quite up to scratch, not that they are now but I have learnt a lot and slowly improving and finding my style. I now need more constructive criticism but tend to go to 500px or Flickr to a lesser extend for that. I like this community for the friendliness and encouragement. If someone asks me any questions, I will do my best to answer and always welcome constructive criticism but I will happily post a stunning comment to an image I love but would be unable to comment on how to improve as this is not the area of photography I know much about, like landscape or wildlife. Anyway, happy weekend!
@davidtom "constructive feedback" might imply that the intention was/is to critique. It generally does in the context of a conversation, for example,
"That was nice, now if I can offer you some constructive feedback......"
Your view on the world press photo not only expresses how you see the work but then interestingly and more importantly goes on to interpret the work (of course it is important to state it is your interpretation). If that is what you want to do then I am sure many would welcome it.
I think what I like most about 365 is the positive comments I get. I find it really confidence boosting (all the positive comments), because I know when I've taken a good photo (for me), or when I've got something right.
If I don't get any comments then I don't worry about it, because a lot of the time, I know the photo isn't a masterpiece, but it is a daily photo, which for me is the important thing.
I suffer from depression, and so to receive a few positive comments during a week means an awful lot more to me than receiving feedback that makes me feel my photo isn't good enough. Taking photos everyday and uploading them guarantees me to have something to think about and to work towards. It was suggested that I start the 365 project as a way to document the good things in my life and the things that make me happy. Its very definitely a photo diary for me, but one that keeps me coming back because I can go to the month view and see all the good things from that month and remember "oh yeah, that was a really good photo, people liked it and said so".
Very interesting thread! I would like more constructive criticism on my images, but I don't give it often to others, unless people ask. I find it sometimes difficult to give feedback, as I don't feel technically confident enough and also because English is not my mother tongue.
It's fascinating to think how much I have learned from all the comments that people have made, though I cannot think of a single "critique". (a few times people have offered technical suggestions when I posed a problem in the text).
Some of the comments may seem "meaningless," but I don't think they are. Young teens invariably go through a stage where they decide that saying "hello, how are you" is meaningless. Then, later, they realize that these exchanges are not at all meaningless, but rather have to do withe acknowledging the presence and existence of another person. That is definitely part of the 365 "thing": people are looking at each other's pictures.
My personal experience is while a nice word now and then is encouraging, after 4 years, I am doing this for myself and my own personal growth. At times I've had many followers and at other times, just a handful. This site certainly has ebbs and flows and more followers appear when there are more comments or early in the year. I feel like that aspect feeds itself and becomes bloated. Its hard to put into words how this whole issue makes me feel. I love this site though and those who have stuck with me over the years. I do appreciate it when they stop by and leave a comment because it means something to me when they have taken the time do that even if it's just a hello.
I also stopped looking at the popular page because I can't compete with those who have access to fantastic photo opportunities and wonderful light. I also never got into the the challenges, except for the album challenge which I love btw, where voting occurs simply because it's up to the person hosting the challenge for the week to pick out their favorites. It's way too subjective. I've seen really talented photographers get overlooked just because the host liked something else. So, I just continue to work on my on path away from trying to impress or conform to the views of others. It keeps me sane. ;-)
This is the most interesting thread I read and I enjoyed reading it very much. The first 2 words came to my minds are: cultural differences.
I believe the constructive comments are part of the culture in this community (general speaking). I was raised and born in a different culture and direct opinions, comments and critiques are part of my culture. When I first studied and lived in the US, my classmates considered me too up front, direct and perhaps rule. So, I eventually changed my behaviors and tried my best to maintain harmony in all my group school projects. However, when I went home, I automatically switched back to my old self. I just returned to the US a week ago and I am back to my harmony mode now. I do enjoy supportive comments and honest/direct critiques simply because I just started taking photos last Fall and love to learn more.
I like JT's CW code idea very much and I will start putting CW in my photos.
Let's start with a sad truth -- I'm a disorganized time-waster who never manages to catch up with the amazing pictures my followers take, let lone make meaningful comments. Please accept my apologies. I love 365 and taking the pictures I post (as well as the hundreds I don't post). As several others have written, I hesitate to critique because of my own limited grasp of the technical end of photography and of course because of my inability to keep up. This said, I'd truly like to receive suggestions that might help me to improve.
Thanks for this thread. It really made me think about why I am (still) here, albeit spotty at best. I believe that I'm on year three and my learning curve in the first 2 years was tremendous, I had a hunger to learn as much as I could and I would ask how something was done if I couldn't figure it out or view the exif info to try and emulate the shot. I do adhere to the "if you don't have something nice to say, keep it to yourself" rule and only offer constructive critiques if asked. However, I am a point that I do need Constructive Feedback or Criticism. Having recently started my own photography business, I still have SO much to learn and want to produce the best product. So, because of this thread, when I post a shot that I would like feedback on, I will ask for it. If it's just a fun or diary shot, I won't (but won't be offended if someone feels led to offer it ;)) Great, great discussion. Thanks for starting this @davidtom and for everyone's comments too.
As Francois said, I think a lot of times you get a lot more out of things than you realize. This is not "billed" as a professional photographer's site. If all is open to unfettered critique, there are just too many viewpoints, and confidence can be easily shattered. I have an art and design background with limited photography schooling. So I'm very confident in my compositions, etc., but feel like I've learned a lot from simply viewing other's work, feedback or non that I might get, trying something new for challenges, looking at links that are provided for certain techniques, etc., discussions. This site has offered mentoring groups and get pushed challenges. If someone asks for a critique, most are willing to gently give it. As others have said, your photographs are your own view of the world, and on any one shot there can be a lot of conflicting advice. I tend to think that technical advice is probably more valuable, and I've seen many requests for help in that area, and a variety of helpful responses. So, I think if you want to learn, there is access to it here, as one of your resources, but also a comfortable, non judgmental site.
Such a great question! So many good points here. For me, unless I ask for it I really don't want it. Trust me if my work sucks I already know it. Im here to document my journey and hopefully inspire a few along the way. I love this community and have had the best support here.
From my point of view, I value critique and am always open to suggestions and idea as to how I could do things differently and from another perspective. I started this project 3 years ago to start using my camera and to improve my photography. I do think I have learnt lots of new things and understanding, but have so much to learn just with my bridge camera! Whenever anyone's has put critique on my posts, it has always been in a helpful, supportive manner. However, I have very thick skin and broad shoulders am very hard to offend!! Lol!
@davidtom I am a newbie to the project and am still finding my way. I would like more than "good photo," well, most of the time. They are not all masterpieces, nor are they meant to be.
The idea of having a tag/code that denotes you are looking for criticism/assistance regarding a photo would be appreciated.
I want to say I think the positive vibe is a welcome change from the shredder site @melston mentioned. They do descend like vultures and I am pretty much scared to post anything on there ever. The few times I have asked for help with a photo or topic, my question has been ignored whilst my photo was ripped to shreds, or the photo simply is ignored and disappears. It seems there are a lot of professionals on there talking about their clients and photo shoots. I am just a lowly amateur taking pictures for fun, and although I may strive towards greatness, I am not even remotely interested in becoming a professional. So ya, constructive criticism is ok if you ask for it, but I think the positive feedback and camaraderie here is much more conducive to learning and motivating than what I have seen elsewhere. I marvel at the talent here and some of the amazing photos. It is also nice to know I am not the only crazy person out there always wondering what my next photo is going to be. People always want to say, "Try it in black and white". That just is getting a little wearisome to me. What I like about this project is the story. When you look at a picture are or planning to take a picture, and you are thinking "what is the story?", it puts a whole new perspective on what you are seeing or what you are trying to achieve. It has helped me try to do a better job with my technique in order to convey the "story". That said, it is also enjoyable to see what other peoples eyes are seeing all over the world on the same day and when you read the positive remarks given by others it allows you to see the picture through their eyes as well. I feel like it takes away from the story if someone dives in trying to change things and giving help that wasn't asked for. If someone does ask for help, then that also becomes part of the story and that is fine. I think the idea of coding makes a lot of sense, but I have seen it go awry and would hate to see that happen to this site.
By looking at other photos and view info tag I am learning more about the f stop. Then the photos that are adjusted by photo shop etc. are opening my eyes to the possibility for me to lean to do this. So for me just being on 365 Is learning.
I would welcome suggestions on how I could improve my photos.
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The other group is run like a forum, and has a critique discussion thread, like this one, but it really the only busy thread on the site, along with a 'general discussion' thread ~ also there are a limited number of 'senior members' who are allowed to critique, and they are mostly very knowledgeable and keep within what they think you can do with what you know. Trouble there is that you might wait three or four days for someone to get to your pix.
Here it seems that the focus is to post something~ anything~ every day to keep the interest going. There are peeps here that I am finding that I admire, and I usually ask about a technique they are using if I am curious. Everyone has been kind and gracious.
Maybe 365 could use some more feed-back options, but after 6 weeks, I'm kinda at the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it!' place. If I need a photo shredded, I have other places to post.
Your mileage may vary. ~ Marci
I've been a 365 member on and off since 2011 and I would certainly say that there is a "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" feel about this site. Certainly there are a few members who are more than happy to suggest things or whatnot, but they are few and far between.
Honestly, that's one of the reasons I don't post here much, I don't really feel like I learn anything. But again, the member count here is large so it's impossible for EVERYONE to get the feedback they want.
From what I've seen here, many folk use 365 almost as a "photo diary," and are not here to improve their photography... for them it's just a hobby, a way they love to spend their free time, and if that's the case, having someone telling you how to improve your photos could be a bit dis-heartening! My basic advice would be don't offer it, unless the person is asking for it. (some people mention in their bio's that they are always open for critique.)
Personally, I dislike running anyone's photo down, (and critiquing to a small degree always does that), I've found it far better, to compliment people on their specific skill, encourage them to go in the line of photography that their style tends to lead to, and only offer small "suggestions" for cropping, straightening, ect.
At the end of the day, photography is art, and while there are basic guidelines/rules every one has their own style. I'd hate to crush someone by inflicting my ideals on their photography, just because our style is different!
I generally don't give critique on people's pictures. I do point out what I like, not just say great shot. It also depends on the shot and the person that took it. If the shot is from someone that takes diary shots and they don't pay attention to technique, I comment more about their diary entry, then about the quality of the photo. I also like to follow peoples lifes throught their diaries and their experiences with taking the shot. That almost means more to me then the quality of the shot. And from the comments that I get, it seems its like that for lots of people on here. They really feel with you when something good or bad is happening in your life.
When people say in their narrative that they don't like this or that or are not totally happy with the shot, and I see something I would do different I tell them what I would do or what might work. Then you know people will appreciate it.
Personally I like the positive fibe on this site. I like hearing from people what they llike about my shots. The shots I post are the way I like it. If there is something I am not happy with I will tell that in my narrative. That is my way of letting people know they can give improvements. If I'm really happy with my shot and it is the way I want it, I don't prefer to get critique (not even constructive), since it is the way I wanted it. By then I've put a lot of thought in the shot and considered alternatives. So critique then is just a difference in taste to me.
I think it's simple... if you're wanting constructive criticism/feedback on your photo's, you should ask for it in your description.
Of course, I'm probably not qualified anyway, so it works out OK.
Generally, I welcome constructive comments, as long as they're done in a constructive manner. Some sort of "CW" code could be useful, if it was widely understtod.
Thanks for your input. I'm starting to realize that 365 Project is a lot different photography hosting site in comparison to Flickr or 500px. The community members that are part of this site are here for wider reange of reasons and even their goals for participating in a 365 day project exist for different reasons. As someone of you seem to suggest, the art of photography might not be the primary purpose for their involvement.
What I find interesting is the "Theme and Competition" Discussion forum here on 365project. Next to the "General: category (the catch all of topic themes), the "Theme and Competition" forum has ten times more posting than the remaining forums. So there is definitely an interest in participating in theme projects and theme competitions. For those that are participating in the competition portion, it is assumed that the participant is asking to have their image judge in some manner. This is where I ended up giving some constructive feedback based on how I as a single viewer interpret the image ( for example: Nice in the use of B&W. It would be interesting to see this image in colour ). I noticed that is where I would provide this unsolicited constructive feedback instead of unsolicited positive feedback (which everyone generally does).
I guess the one thing that echo in my mind is an article I read a number of years ago written from a professional photographer. It was basically a rant about how the photography industry is being flooded by wanna be professional photographers thinking that after a few years of shooting pictures and having their parents and friends all compliment their images on Flickr, that it given these new photographer this false ego boost about their abilities. Yesterday on FB, someone made the first comment on a inexperience photographer's fashion portrait about "Nice Lighting", where I saw distracting shadows in the image. I had to comment and give some more valuable feedback.
That is why I hesitate with the whole "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say nothing" approach when all nice things people say may end up causing more issues. You can take this theory outside of photography. I've heard arguments that praising young kids or adults for accomplishments not really earned will just give those people a false sense of entitlement. We are so worried about having people fail and hurting their feelings that sometimes we convince ourselves that we live in a lie.
I guess that was my rant for the day :-)
Seems to give good advice on technique. What other places would be good?
i know lots of folks really would prefer not to get critiqued... they've actually said so, and hey - i can respect that...
i get what you're saying in the "nice lighting" example... it's a difficult situation tho'... we're a nice community and tend NOT to descend like vultures... maybe the lighting isn't perfect - but maybe it's really nice even tho' imperfect... maybe it's the nicest lighting that photog has captured in a while... maybe the overall image is average and the best thing about it is the lighting and the person commenting was looking for something positive to say... and maybe the shadows you found were distracting were, in the view of the photog or the person who said "nice lighting" actually something of interest... it's all kind of subjective, isn't it?
anyway, i'm pretty tough and always appreciate honest feedback... even if i end up not agreeing with it, i find it extremely helpful to get others' perspectives...
I believe people do the themes/challenges more because it helps keep focus or purpose with our individual projects. It keeps us active when inspiration may be low and is interesting to see how others respond to a theme.
Tell people what you like about an image. Don't tell them how they can improve it. This is not Flickr, it is 365. Very different. There are many exceptional photographers on here and many amateurs. The support is a big part of what makes this site good. If you want proper constructive critiquing you have to set out your manifesto/purpose and engage in a very different way than this site works. Rant over.
Although I will point out two things... I actually used the word feedback in my statement and I think it is different from criticism. Criticism is the act of judging or evaluating while feedback is the act of returning information from an action or stimulus. In regards to evaluating or judging a person's work, then Spanner and others raise the point about who would be qualified to judge. However, providing feedback to an artist is much more interesting as it focus on how a viewer perceives the artwork (i.e. photographic image). For example, taking a look at the winner of the World Press Photo 2014, I wouldn't be qualified to critique the winning image but I am able to state that "I feel that there is an intimate moment happening between the two men but the shadow on the left keeps drawing my eyes away from the men." I'm not challenging the photographer's work but expressing how I view the work. Maybe the photographer see value in this distraction as it may reinforce the story of the Gay men in Russia have to hide in the shadows. If so, the photographer's capture was dead on.
The 2nd observation I like to make is that we may not be qualified to provide criticism but we seem to be qualified to provide approval and praise. It is still an act of judging. "Amazing Capture", "Great POV", "Beautiful" are words of praise without real substance. I find them as valuable as the "like" button on Facebook or other photo hosting sites. But it does make people feel good.
So "Great Input" from everyone and "Jolly Good" :-)
Sorry, I can also be a bit of a smart ass at times. As you may have noticed in my past threads, I like to challenge the way people think and based on the views and replies, some of you like a good conversation.
"That was nice, now if I can offer you some constructive feedback......"
Your view on the world press photo not only expresses how you see the work but then interestingly and more importantly goes on to interpret the work (of course it is important to state it is your interpretation). If that is what you want to do then I am sure many would welcome it.
If I don't get any comments then I don't worry about it, because a lot of the time, I know the photo isn't a masterpiece, but it is a daily photo, which for me is the important thing.
I suffer from depression, and so to receive a few positive comments during a week means an awful lot more to me than receiving feedback that makes me feel my photo isn't good enough. Taking photos everyday and uploading them guarantees me to have something to think about and to work towards. It was suggested that I start the 365 project as a way to document the good things in my life and the things that make me happy. Its very definitely a photo diary for me, but one that keeps me coming back because I can go to the month view and see all the good things from that month and remember "oh yeah, that was a really good photo, people liked it and said so".
Its what keeps me doing it.
Some of the comments may seem "meaningless," but I don't think they are. Young teens invariably go through a stage where they decide that saying "hello, how are you" is meaningless. Then, later, they realize that these exchanges are not at all meaningless, but rather have to do withe acknowledging the presence and existence of another person. That is definitely part of the 365 "thing": people are looking at each other's pictures.
I also stopped looking at the popular page because I can't compete with those who have access to fantastic photo opportunities and wonderful light. I also never got into the the challenges, except for the album challenge which I love btw, where voting occurs simply because it's up to the person hosting the challenge for the week to pick out their favorites. It's way too subjective. I've seen really talented photographers get overlooked just because the host liked something else. So, I just continue to work on my on path away from trying to impress or conform to the views of others. It keeps me sane. ;-)
I believe the constructive comments are part of the culture in this community (general speaking). I was raised and born in a different culture and direct opinions, comments and critiques are part of my culture. When I first studied and lived in the US, my classmates considered me too up front, direct and perhaps rule. So, I eventually changed my behaviors and tried my best to maintain harmony in all my group school projects. However, when I went home, I automatically switched back to my old self. I just returned to the US a week ago and I am back to my harmony mode now. I do enjoy supportive comments and honest/direct critiques simply because I just started taking photos last Fall and love to learn more.
I like JT's CW code idea very much and I will start putting CW in my photos.
Stay Healthy, be Happy!
The idea of having a tag/code that denotes you are looking for criticism/assistance regarding a photo would be appreciated.
I would welcome suggestions on how I could improve my photos.