I wonder if anyone else is in the same position. I have been taking digital photos for years and amassing a collection that has increased in size. Lately I have been keeping RAW as well as Jpeg images and they do mount up.
Starting 365project I found myself taking lots more photos, and of a more experimental nature sometimes, so I am wondering if I really want to keep them so much as the photos from before. Then again I have lots of unremarkable old photos that I might want to cull. So, what do people do to preserve photos?
In the old days, negatives and prints would be kept, maybe stored into albums. Slides would be boxed... they would succumb to time, fade or be lost a bit at a time. What should we do with digital photos? I have several accounts online, Panoramio, here, Flickr, Picasa, Facebook where pictures are stored but really that's a small fraction of the Gb that I have on disk and backed up.
What's your plan for keeping images in the long term?
hey @ukcam, I'm really the OC type thus in my laptop, I have four folders just for the 365 project. One is Labeled 365RAW (for unprocessed shots), 365ED (for processed shots), 365WM(the shots, now with watermark) and 365OL(resized to be upload to the net). And for the non-365 shots, I have a large folder named PHOTOALBUM and for every event, I have EVENTRAW(folder with raw) and EVENTED (for the edited versions).
The size and number of files pretty slow down my laptop thus, I bought an external hard drive where I can store my files. I usually dont delete the shots unless they really are terrible since I think I can use them in the future. I'm planning to buy another one to serve as an extra copy, in case my hd breaks down. (talking about insurance and assurance, haha.)
I take hundreds of shots everyday but I don't keep them all, I delete the ones I'm sure won't be needed or used. For the ones I don't delete, I keep three versions of each: RAW, PSD in original size (If edited on PS) and Jpeg.
My "digital camera photos" folder has over 75GB in it, and I shoot RAW only these days. I keep anything which isn't completely terrible, generally, because you never know...
I keep all of them. Although it may seem to take a lot of disk space, but because thee price/gig of storage is coming down fast and the HD capacity is growing pretty fast too so I am not so worried about having too much. Actually, I work on 3 identical copies on 3 TB disks right now.
I learn to let go. I keep photos that make me happy or represent something, but if I take 10 photos and am not in love, they will all go. But I also purge my facebook account, the people I follow on here if they do not post in over a month. I am also making more photo books where I need to go from 600 to about 250 photos, so I priortize.
I keep the vast majority. Dumping about 2% as real no-hopers. As I do a lot of competitions I find that many of my old pictures suddenly have a new theme interpretation. Also as I am selling more of my pictures I find the old ones are potential revenue generators. As I grow as a photographer my earlier 'sight' was not acute as my later insight. Old shots often rock in a way I never saw them before. I currently have around 200,000 digital photos and... well, I lost count of the rest.
By the way...
Back up, back up, back up. Hmm! Did I also mention that you should back-up regularly?
I have three external drives. I work on one. Daily back up to the second. Weekly back up to one on an external location away from my office. I replace all three pieces of hardware every 18 months with bigger drives. I keep the old ones as they were and store them at separate locations. I copy the old photos to the new larger drives and carry on adding to them.
If I lost my photos I would lose my business. The cost of 3x 2Tb drives every 18 months is nothing compared to being without an income.
I have an external hard drive and copy images over on a regular basis, keeping only the most recent on my actual laptop. I'm currently on my second external drive. My first one had taken a couple of tumbles off the table, so I decided to back up.
I delete bad images immediately on upload, but keep anything that I may want to view again later.
I am trying various strategies, but have not found a set way to save my pictures. I do have folders. Sometimes, I delete pictures, but I do not want to delete one that I can go back to and work with at a later date. I do backup my pictures on an external drive. I know that eventually I will get another backup system. One of my friends saves her pictures on DVDs and memory cards. She labels each of these.
I burn everything I want to keep onto CD and create a contact sheet so I know what is on each one, because you never know when a hard drive is going to cave in or a web site is going to go belly up.
First of all, I use a program called Photo Mechanic to manage my photos. It is the industry standard photo databasing program used by professionals from every type of photography. It is nice because it is very cheap, just $60 this week but I think only $100 on a normal basis, and it makes organizing the photos very quick and every easy.
As for keeping the photos, I sort my photos by date and subject. So, I use a folder name like 20110429project to name my photos so they are always in chronological order.
I only keep the best photos on my laptop so I have easy access to them. Those are the ones I have edited, cropped, and uploaded to my website or blog. However, I keep everything. I keep every photo I shoot, even if I never use it.
I use a 3-2-1 Backup Method. I have 3 copies of all my photos on 2 different mediums with at least 1 off-site. I burn all the photos to DVD's and store them in a safe deposit box at my bank. I also copy all the photos to my Western Digital 1TB drive. This way, I have my photos in multiple locations.
I do keep everything though. Sometimes, I like to go back to the first month I was shooting digital photos just to see how far I have progressed.
Interesting responses @jasonbarnette@unfinishedbook@asrai@daisy@rmfeldka@netkonnexion@brumbe@viranod@eyebrows@slmatntwi@rvm@sarmientorj
I like the various backup methods although I think that a hard disk is still not long term storage, and is failure prone. Adding more disks adds to the juggling that might itself induce failure... and saving to DVDs, I remember several different types of writable DVD and not all compatible - who knows if they will be readable in the far future? It seems like digital photography gives convenience and immediacy but without providing a long term storage solution.
I worry a bit about raw files as they are a lot less standard than JPG and it's not clear to me that future systems will necessarily be able to read them.
The other big nightmare is organisation, even saving images by date I find it hard to search for something specific. I think I need to make better use of tags and find a database that indexes the pictures without risk of damaging them...
@ukcam - thank you. I have worked in IT and a library for the last ten years working with a historical archive website ( http://www.sloughhistoryonline.org/ ). We had three back up methods. External drives, servers, website.
The website was all .jpg and constantly needed to be updated (although it had its own backup too). On the server and the backup drives we used the open-standard archive format - TIFF files. Every RAW file will convert to TIFF format and so if you want make sure your RAW shots are retained for future generations then convert your shots to TIFF. You will not lose any of the shot data and the standard will be around for a long time, or convertable since it is an open standard.
Re: hard drives/servers you are correct. They are vulnerable hardware. This is why you must archive to them making sure you have at least one alternative to your working drive on-site AND one off-site in a different location or on the web (expensive). Replace all hardware every one or two years.
Commercial DVDs and CDS are produced by pressing, a different method to ones recorded on your machine. If they are not seriously damaged they can survive for between 20 to 60 years as a guide. HOWEVER, recorded DVDs and CDs have a much shorter life. They are not guarenteed in any circumstances. They are digitally etched by laser into a sensitive layer. That heat-sensitive layer is very vulnerable. Archivists will only consider a temporary life of 5 years in temperature/humidity controlled box-mounted environment. The use of these for remastering a new disc later is not advised as the quality degrades over time. The range of standards and readers make them unusable in a lot of situations too. In future other computers may not be able to read them. DVDs and CDs are NOT a safe or viable archive/backup method.
Digital archivists consider that for long term back ups it is best to use the LOCKSS principle or something similar...
.............. Lots Of Copies Keep Systems Safe
There really is no other way of going about this... you must have lots of backup and lots of copies of your backup to be safe for long-term retention.
I think someone mentioned flash drives/Memory sticks. People should be aware of their short-comings. They are also highly vulnerable. The enemy of archives is loss by theft or accident. Small memory units are highly vulnerable. By all means back up to them. But keep other types of back up in more substantial systems. Also bear in mind that older flash drives/memory keys and chips are very vulnerable to fade and failure. More so than hard drives. So, plug them in to a computer regularly to refresh them (at least once a year); keep them at a regular, cool temperature; do not carry them around (put them in a safe) and replace them regularly (every 2 to 3 years). Thier small capacity also means they are very poor vessels for a serious archive.
Tech-savvy young people think that what they take now will always be available for them in future. I have thousands of prints and negs that are my family history, my business and my personal interest from most of my life. Now it is nice to look back at those, or to sell them. But my greatest loss was a picture of my grandfather taken as a cabin boy on the deck of his first ship in 1909. I had a scan of that picture and it was my pride and joy. The original print was accidently destroyed. So I lost an irritrievable family heirloom when my only digital copy was lost in a hard drive failure in 2001. Lesson learned !
Remember that things move fast. Technology changes and it is not reliable or permanent. So make sure you protect your photographic legacy. One day you may want to look back. Or your childrens children may want to look back. If you do it right you will be remembered...
Use LOCKSS, archive format files, at least three hard drives, replace them regularly and keep them separated.
I hope all that helps until some better more reliable technology comes along.
I'll add that DVDs are so cheaply produced now that any claims, at such orders of magnitude of hundreds of years, in terms of longevity of the discs themselves, no longer apply. I'd not trust them for long term backup at all.
It's also worth adding that although many media degrade gradually, flash devices can suffer from controller failure or a sort of corruption that makes the whole device unreadable (without very specialist equipment). They are great for moving things around but never for long term storage.
I'm planning to put up my own Photo Gallery Business in the future. Having my own shop where i could sell it in every possible ways.Keeping all my Photos processes and to be process is very interesting. It holds me up on pursuing something i wanted to be and to have. I know if not today, someday i could make money on all my photos.
Afraid now on selling it on line he he he. So might as well sell it personally to everybody.
@eyebrows - digital archiving authorities no longer fund projects using writeable DVDs. They only have an effective reliable storage life of four years for valuable data and then only if stored in temperature controlled conditions and properly cased.
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The size and number of files pretty slow down my laptop thus, I bought an external hard drive where I can store my files. I usually dont delete the shots unless they really are terrible since I think I can use them in the future. I'm planning to buy another one to serve as an extra copy, in case my hd breaks down. (talking about insurance and assurance, haha.)
The shots that I really really love, I print.
Hope this helps. :)
I keep ones that I may want to look at again - and if after a year I haven't - they go too . . .
Back up, back up, back up. Hmm! Did I also mention that you should back-up regularly?
I have three external drives. I work on one. Daily back up to the second. Weekly back up to one on an external location away from my office. I replace all three pieces of hardware every 18 months with bigger drives. I keep the old ones as they were and store them at separate locations. I copy the old photos to the new larger drives and carry on adding to them.
If I lost my photos I would lose my business. The cost of 3x 2Tb drives every 18 months is nothing compared to being without an income.
I delete bad images immediately on upload, but keep anything that I may want to view again later.
As for keeping the photos, I sort my photos by date and subject. So, I use a folder name like 20110429project to name my photos so they are always in chronological order.
I only keep the best photos on my laptop so I have easy access to them. Those are the ones I have edited, cropped, and uploaded to my website or blog. However, I keep everything. I keep every photo I shoot, even if I never use it.
I use a 3-2-1 Backup Method. I have 3 copies of all my photos on 2 different mediums with at least 1 off-site. I burn all the photos to DVD's and store them in a safe deposit box at my bank. I also copy all the photos to my Western Digital 1TB drive. This way, I have my photos in multiple locations.
I do keep everything though. Sometimes, I like to go back to the first month I was shooting digital photos just to see how far I have progressed.
I like the various backup methods although I think that a hard disk is still not long term storage, and is failure prone. Adding more disks adds to the juggling that might itself induce failure... and saving to DVDs, I remember several different types of writable DVD and not all compatible - who knows if they will be readable in the far future? It seems like digital photography gives convenience and immediacy but without providing a long term storage solution.
I worry a bit about raw files as they are a lot less standard than JPG and it's not clear to me that future systems will necessarily be able to read them.
The other big nightmare is organisation, even saving images by date I find it hard to search for something specific. I think I need to make better use of tags and find a database that indexes the pictures without risk of damaging them...
The website was all .jpg and constantly needed to be updated (although it had its own backup too). On the server and the backup drives we used the open-standard archive format - TIFF files. Every RAW file will convert to TIFF format and so if you want make sure your RAW shots are retained for future generations then convert your shots to TIFF. You will not lose any of the shot data and the standard will be around for a long time, or convertable since it is an open standard.
Re: hard drives/servers you are correct. They are vulnerable hardware. This is why you must archive to them making sure you have at least one alternative to your working drive on-site AND one off-site in a different location or on the web (expensive). Replace all hardware every one or two years.
Commercial DVDs and CDS are produced by pressing, a different method to ones recorded on your machine. If they are not seriously damaged they can survive for between 20 to 60 years as a guide. HOWEVER, recorded DVDs and CDs have a much shorter life. They are not guarenteed in any circumstances. They are digitally etched by laser into a sensitive layer. That heat-sensitive layer is very vulnerable. Archivists will only consider a temporary life of 5 years in temperature/humidity controlled box-mounted environment. The use of these for remastering a new disc later is not advised as the quality degrades over time. The range of standards and readers make them unusable in a lot of situations too. In future other computers may not be able to read them. DVDs and CDs are NOT a safe or viable archive/backup method.
Digital archivists consider that for long term back ups it is best to use the LOCKSS principle or something similar...
.............. Lots Of Copies Keep Systems Safe
There really is no other way of going about this... you must have lots of backup and lots of copies of your backup to be safe for long-term retention.
I think someone mentioned flash drives/Memory sticks. People should be aware of their short-comings. They are also highly vulnerable. The enemy of archives is loss by theft or accident. Small memory units are highly vulnerable. By all means back up to them. But keep other types of back up in more substantial systems. Also bear in mind that older flash drives/memory keys and chips are very vulnerable to fade and failure. More so than hard drives. So, plug them in to a computer regularly to refresh them (at least once a year); keep them at a regular, cool temperature; do not carry them around (put them in a safe) and replace them regularly (every 2 to 3 years). Thier small capacity also means they are very poor vessels for a serious archive.
Tech-savvy young people think that what they take now will always be available for them in future. I have thousands of prints and negs that are my family history, my business and my personal interest from most of my life. Now it is nice to look back at those, or to sell them. But my greatest loss was a picture of my grandfather taken as a cabin boy on the deck of his first ship in 1909. I had a scan of that picture and it was my pride and joy. The original print was accidently destroyed. So I lost an irritrievable family heirloom when my only digital copy was lost in a hard drive failure in 2001. Lesson learned !
Remember that things move fast. Technology changes and it is not reliable or permanent. So make sure you protect your photographic legacy. One day you may want to look back. Or your childrens children may want to look back. If you do it right you will be remembered...
Use LOCKSS, archive format files, at least three hard drives, replace them regularly and keep them separated.
I hope all that helps until some better more reliable technology comes along.
Afraid now on selling it on line he he he. So might as well sell it personally to everybody.