I'm a serious follower of rules(read not expert enough to break them). So, as soon as I learned about rule of thirds I started implementing it with not even a single dead center framing. Its been working quite well but sometimes especially when I do extreme version of rule of thirds, the negative space bothers me. I feel like there should be something there to balance the image. I feel the composition could have been better by framing it differently or something about it bugs me.
For example, here is my latest picture on which I tried vintage effect for the first time, and did an extreme crop to isolate dead flower and the blurred background. Let's forget about the vintage for the moment, but can you please provide critique on how can I improve these kinds of compositions(heavy vignetting, another object filling other side?) because I really think there's something missing in this picture that is preventing it to have impact on the viewer. I see a watermark could have worked here, but I'm no where near watermarking my images. Some day!
If this were my image I would have done a vertical crop to make the flower head fill the top 3rd(ish) of the image so it will fill the frame more but the image is better balanced. Just my .02.
Rules are meant to be broken. That's the number one thing to remember. The rules are guidelines and not set in stone. AND not all pictures work with the same rule. If it doesn't work for you, try something else.
I would have cropped the bottom with all the dark patches off this because I feel it's too long of a picture.
The problem with rules is sometimes they need to be broken. Following rules doesn't make a great photograph, seeing the image and knowing how to capture the image in a way that shows otherpeople what you saw is what makes a great photograph.
I've had a flip through some of your photos. Did you know you can turn your camera on its side and it still works? I know, it sounds a little mean, I didn't mean like that at all. I see so many people that just don't do it though! You've got empty space in the dying rose, that's for sure! Yep, it bothers me too, you know why? because you have this dynamic stem with thorns leading up to the death of a rose but it's pushed to the side so you can have half the photo be blur! argg!
Take your fingers and do that little framing box thing you see them do in the movies.
Do it vertically.
Frame the photo.
Nearly perfect!
stem leads up to the flower
Flower leads back to the thorns.
Had you used a light fill flash on the rose to make it pop from the background a bit more I think you would have been very pleased with your results.
Now go look at some of your other photos, see if shooting vertically would help (I found a few that it would won't tell you which ;))
Also, great job of learning the rule of thirds! but it's not just about putting something in the golden spots. Theres' a bit more to that, but it takes that frustration of knowing somethings wrong to figure it out.
i agree with @dmortega the first rule is rules are ment to be broken. there are many composition rules / guides / suggestions, and they can all be broken.
thankfully the rule of thirds is not the only rule of composition and I use the term rule in its loosest sense because the only rule in photography is that there are no rules just guidelines. you may want to look into the golden ratio , element balancing, leading lines, image framing, the rule of diagonals, and the use of geometric composition just to name a few. in the end not every shot is going to suit the rule of thirds so its a good idea to have ssomething else to be able to build on too
i like it just the way you've done it. i love negative space - you can be minimalistic without having a minimalist subject. Here are some that I've done:
I'm not keen on rule of thirds at all. It is a really loose approximation of the golden ratio, which doesn't really look like thirds at all when you see it.
For your image, I would suggest going for the Fibonacci Spiral instead. If you look that up, you'll see that your image could easily be placed onto that and it will be far more attractive than trying to use a "rule of thirds".
If you have Lightroom, it has all of these as overlays in the crop tool, so you can get it really accurate if you're not happy with eyeballing it instead.
I had never heard of the rule of thirds, before hanging out here.
I shoot what I like in the way I want to see it, because ultimately I'm not getting graded and I'm the only one who will look at these photos a year from now. The examples above are very nicely done.
The first one, however, has too much background clutter and with the light spot pulling your focus, there is little left for the flower. The primary subject just doesn't stand out quite enough. Perfect placement would not bring it to life the way the Indian pops. Contrast would.
The rule of thirds has been used for 100's of years and is a very powerful rule and should be the basis of understanding composition. Now once you understand what photos work using this rule then you can break them.
If you dont understand why then are you really breaking them???
I think the problem you are really struggling with is your background. What you should be asking is does the background add anything to the photo. If not crop it out and crop in tight.
The use of negative and positive space has its place and that is in the story telling of a photo, so if it doesnt help with the story then it has not point in the story.
With the example above I think the problem is with the white in the back ground. Eyes will go to the brightest spot in the image and as the brightest spot in this example is the background then the composition doesn't work. The composition should create interest for the subject not the background.
A rule to understand and break. If you are happy with the image, it is right. If you are getting paid for it, maybe a different story. Lee Gordon said it so well....
It's an interesting one. Take this example. I wasn't particularly pleased with this shot myself. Time was short, inspiration low, and I just felt a bit bleugh. But then I couldn't believe the attention it had on here! The reason? I'm not sure, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was something to do with having broken the rule - turning a "yet another moon shot" into a "different, possibly interesting shot" instead...
It's been interesting and very educational to watch all your responses. @neda Very good observation. I do realize I don't use the vertical orientation much. Even with rule of thirds, I forget that it can also be done vertically like @autumnseden described which i agree could have worked well with this photo. I guess I was sidetracked from the main subject wanting to incorporate that blur. @asrai Thank you very much for giving me food for thought. I need to focus on other rules too even though I understand I cannot incorporate all of them in a picture. @sdpace I just love all the examples you posted here. Especially the first one. Even though you had all that negative space, I think because how simple and plain the background is, the main subject stands out even more than filling the frame. Also, your vignetting though very subtle helps to bring the focus to the main subject. Do you use brush for your vignette?
@swguevin I Agree with you there is too much background clutter in my picture and not enough focus on the main subject. The crop I started out with has this muted light green blur for the background and didn't take away from the rose and made sense. But when I did the vintage effect and vignette it kind of threw away the intention of the original composition. @jinximages I'll research on Fibonacci spiral. I do have lightroom but I tend to work in
camera raw and open In photoshop. Does photoshop have that option in crop tool. It automatically shows rule of thirds in my crop tool.
@agima Brendan, I agree with the thought of background as a means of adding to the image. Also, yes the white in my picture is drawing the eyes to it taking away from the rose. I'll try to ask these two questions each time I think I'm done with the picture. Does the composition create interest to the subject? Does the background add to the subject? Thanks. @hown That's such a beautiful picture and again the simplicity of the background draws eyes to the tulip and the reflection adds to the picture. Just lovely. @lluniau Very interesting example. Here you had the largest negative space, yet it works very well.
Thaks again everyone for the replies and examples, I think I understand now - not to get carried away from the main subject(blur here), Compose to highlight the main subject sometimes using other rules of composition.
@agima Read your statement and couldn't agree more.
It isn't "breaking" a rule if you don't truly understand the rule. I will go spend some time with a composition book or article. However, I do think the "rule" is a logic brain thing. When you disect composition to see why it works. Art is a feel thing, in that you can have strong composition without using a grid marker to find your focal point and balance.
That said, I can't argue with results. Hands down your photos are some of the best posted here, day after day. Technically strong and artistically strong.
So if you say know the rule of thirds before you break it, I'm going to go and do my best to figure out how that rule applies to how I see the world in my lens.
@pankaj Those are some awesome pics. You always have great compositions of birds and animals in your pictures and they stand out really well on beautiful and colorful backgrounds. If you say you don't know the rule, then @swguevin Is right in that art is a feel thing and is not bound by rules.
All the rules are frustrating when trying to make sense of them and incorporate them but for most of the better and experienced photographers it becomes so ingrained in their brain they naturally compose in that way without ever thinking about the rules. I really think it is a process.
@swguevin Sheila thanks for such kind words. and I am happy to help out... If you want I am more than happy to comment on your photos and tell you how I would of taken or composted the picture.
Just tag me in the comments asking me what you would like me to look at and i will swing past.
@ikamera I agree. For me the rule of thirds comes natural as it is something I have practised for some time, so when I look through the lens I am looking for composition and how I frame it so it brings interest, but before that I do a few other things.
I imagine how the image is going to look using my camera settings, how the background will be this blurry, how brightness of the subject will be against a darker background, how the light is falling on he subject, how the light is on the background. These are just some of the things that go through my head before I lift the camera.
If you ever see me on a location shoot I am bobbing and weaving around like a boxer, all the time running the images through my mind and then when I find the spot where it works, I then frame in through the lens...
I often tell the models, not to worry about me if I start to look like I am dancing or have a really blank look on my face... Its just me being creative... he he he
@ikamera I've actually never checked to see if there are those options in Photoshop (I have been doing my cropping using Lightroom for quite some time now).
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I would have cropped the bottom with all the dark patches off this because I feel it's too long of a picture.
I've had a flip through some of your photos. Did you know you can turn your camera on its side and it still works? I know, it sounds a little mean, I didn't mean like that at all. I see so many people that just don't do it though! You've got empty space in the dying rose, that's for sure! Yep, it bothers me too, you know why? because you have this dynamic stem with thorns leading up to the death of a rose but it's pushed to the side so you can have half the photo be blur! argg!
Take your fingers and do that little framing box thing you see them do in the movies.
Do it vertically.
Frame the photo.
Nearly perfect!
stem leads up to the flower
Flower leads back to the thorns.
Had you used a light fill flash on the rose to make it pop from the background a bit more I think you would have been very pleased with your results.
Now go look at some of your other photos, see if shooting vertically would help (I found a few that it would won't tell you which ;))
Also, great job of learning the rule of thirds! but it's not just about putting something in the golden spots. Theres' a bit more to that, but it takes that frustration of knowing somethings wrong to figure it out.
For your image, I would suggest going for the Fibonacci Spiral instead. If you look that up, you'll see that your image could easily be placed onto that and it will be far more attractive than trying to use a "rule of thirds".
If you have Lightroom, it has all of these as overlays in the crop tool, so you can get it really accurate if you're not happy with eyeballing it instead.
I shoot what I like in the way I want to see it, because ultimately I'm not getting graded and I'm the only one who will look at these photos a year from now. The examples above are very nicely done.
The first one, however, has too much background clutter and with the light spot pulling your focus, there is little left for the flower. The primary subject just doesn't stand out quite enough. Perfect placement would not bring it to life the way the Indian pops. Contrast would.
If you dont understand why then are you really breaking them???
I think the problem you are really struggling with is your background. What you should be asking is does the background add anything to the photo. If not crop it out and crop in tight.
The use of negative and positive space has its place and that is in the story telling of a photo, so if it doesnt help with the story then it has not point in the story.
With the example above I think the problem is with the white in the back ground. Eyes will go to the brightest spot in the image and as the brightest spot in this example is the background then the composition doesn't work. The composition should create interest for the subject not the background.
Does that make sense?
@asrai Thank you very much for giving me food for thought. I need to focus on other rules too even though I understand I cannot incorporate all of them in a picture.
@sdpace I just love all the examples you posted here. Especially the first one. Even though you had all that negative space, I think because how simple and plain the background is, the main subject stands out even more than filling the frame. Also, your vignetting though very subtle helps to bring the focus to the main subject. Do you use brush for your vignette?
@swguevin I Agree with you there is too much background clutter in my picture and not enough focus on the main subject. The crop I started out with has this muted light green blur for the background and didn't take away from the rose and made sense. But when I did the vintage effect and vignette it kind of threw away the intention of the original composition.
@jinximages I'll research on Fibonacci spiral. I do have lightroom but I tend to work in
camera raw and open In photoshop. Does photoshop have that option in crop tool. It automatically shows rule of thirds in my crop tool.
@hown That's such a beautiful picture and again the simplicity of the background draws eyes to the tulip and the reflection adds to the picture. Just lovely. @lluniau Very interesting example. Here you had the largest negative space, yet it works very well.
Thaks again everyone for the replies and examples, I think I understand now - not to get carried away from the main subject(blur here), Compose to highlight the main subject sometimes using other rules of composition.
and
It isn't "breaking" a rule if you don't truly understand the rule. I will go spend some time with a composition book or article. However, I do think the "rule" is a logic brain thing. When you disect composition to see why it works. Art is a feel thing, in that you can have strong composition without using a grid marker to find your focal point and balance.
That said, I can't argue with results. Hands down your photos are some of the best posted here, day after day. Technically strong and artistically strong.
So if you say know the rule of thirds before you break it, I'm going to go and do my best to figure out how that rule applies to how I see the world in my lens.
All the rules are frustrating when trying to make sense of them and incorporate them but for most of the better and experienced photographers it becomes so ingrained in their brain they naturally compose in that way without ever thinking about the rules. I really think it is a process.
Just tag me in the comments asking me what you would like me to look at and i will swing past.
@ikamera I agree. For me the rule of thirds comes natural as it is something I have practised for some time, so when I look through the lens I am looking for composition and how I frame it so it brings interest, but before that I do a few other things.
I imagine how the image is going to look using my camera settings, how the background will be this blurry, how brightness of the subject will be against a darker background, how the light is falling on he subject, how the light is on the background. These are just some of the things that go through my head before I lift the camera.
If you ever see me on a location shoot I am bobbing and weaving around like a boxer, all the time running the images through my mind and then when I find the spot where it works, I then frame in through the lens...
I often tell the models, not to worry about me if I start to look like I am dancing or have a really blank look on my face... Its just me being creative... he he he