Hi everyone, I'm still reasonably new to this. It's my first official 365. I tried one last year with my iPhone and the hipstmatic app, but didn't get very far. This year I'm going all in, fresh pics every day with my SLR, no old ones, and so far I've been quite pleased with my results.
One thing I have noticed is people who don't have that many more photos than me on here, with fairly average photos, having literally hundreds of followers. Now while I didn't come on here desperate for recognition, or attention, I'd have hoped thAt after a month and a half things might have picked up, at least a little for me.
@monkeykid Thanks Therese, the following makes sense, but I have seen some people following like 40 people but having 200 followers! It's an impressive ratio!
You need to get involved! I spend at least an hour a day commenting and browsing. I try to browse the 'by day' tag every day. I don't think it's anything to do with the equipment you use, in fact I know it's not.
Also, and I mean no disrespect by this, but I don't always follow everyone who follows me. There are thousands of fabulous photographers on here but I tend to follow people whose style I like.
You know what, you make a good point. Uploading a photo and crossing my fingers isn't going to necessarily yield the intended results, and from starting to browse and get more involved just now, I didnt quite realise just how much talent was going on, on this site!
There are also a few people who have been around for years, left, then came back and immediately gained back their followers, their photography is amazing, this may explain some of the people with few photos but lots of followers.
For the rest of us its comment, comment, comment, like making friends in the real world, one conversation does not make a friend, it takes consistency. 6 weeks into my project I had 17 followers.... it does accellerate once you get involved.... best to follow those at a similar stage and ability to you and then expand out.
It certainly is a mystery!! Try following and maybe they will follow back. And maybe not. Unless I really, really love someones work I usually dump them after a month. I hate feeling the "i'm not worthy" feeling. Especially if I've put in the effort to comment and fav their work. That's just how I roll. Like it or not. I'm not saying I'm a fab photographer! But I'm supportive in my small world of followers. Just ask them.
Well, I will never follow more than 50 people, simply because its impossible to keep up with any more. A lot of newb's always do the follow me / follow you thing when they start, and some of us are old hands returning again. And deeming people's photo's as "fairly average" prob won't help your cause neither.
@amyamoeba great point.. one must interact..i don't have a huge following and actually follow too many folks as it's hard to keep up ..my point for being here is for inspiration, education on picture taking and the privilege of viewing some mighty fine photographers..
my shots are definitely average, but I can accept that..for now
@jase_h Jase, absolutely no offence was intended by what I said, but I stand by it. There are some truly amazing photos on here, awesome work that I'd never be able to achieve, but some others are average, it's a fact, not a criticism. We can't all be Da Vinci's of our trade!
Well I've been here for almost... 3 years (had to think about that!) and I've posted fairly constantly, and made sure I keep up with my follow-ees - I agree with @jase_h in that the follow-you/follow-me thing doesn't really work - especially when you have over 1,000 followers - it would be absolutely impossible to keep up with them all! So I follow a smaller amount simply because I'd miss too much otherwise. And like @amyamoeba I tend to follow those whose photos I enjoy, and not just because they've followed me - having said that, I try and check out as many newbies as I can because I am always on the lookout for more inspiration!
Andrew, I have more than you. I think they've generally come when I've followed someone else and commented consistently on their photos. That's not why I do either, but it's a nice side effect.
@jase_h I think it's important to be realistic. I've only just really started out and am not only still learning (as most of us are, I think), I'm also at the start of that process, like a lot of people here. "Average" isn't to be taken badly, I don't think.
@vokesy I feel discouraged sometimes, too, when I compare my hits to others. As much as I would love to follow more people, I'm with Jase in that it just gets too overwhelming and I don't have the time. What brings me back around is remembering why it is I started this project in the first place, which was simply to document a year by unwaveringly posting a photo/day, and to get inspired by others. So far, I have accomplished both of these things, and while I don't have many followers, the ones I do have feel like good friends. I do get caught up in the competition of it all sometimes, but if I never make the popular pages throughout my stint here, it won't mean I have failed.
For me, I follow people who's work I enjoy and others who are starting out just like me and of whom I have built up a rapport with. No, our photos are not the best but one of the truely wonderful things I enjoy is seeing the journey we all take and the growth we all have as amateur photographers in such a small time. This place is amazing for encouragement which if you want the same, then you have to pay it forwards...backwards and sideways :)The daily reward is amazing. So I suggest that numbers and stats aren't always important :) Good luck with your 365 journey!
Thanks for all your feedback guys, some important points raised and a lesson learnt for me, to get on board and get involved! There is a lot more going on here than I initially gave credit for! A lot of great people on a fascinating journey, offering some great inspiration. The journey is the important thing, but it's a whole lot more fun when we take people with us!
I like to think i can have one follower per picture. Today is day 41 and i am falling short!! I notice some people have 100's. that make me sad. I do work to share it with people. I try to brighten up peoples days... The more smiles i make the better!! So come ye come ye....
The ratio can also depend on followers you delete! I am almost done my project and a couple of times I have culled some of the people on the list I follow, because they were no longer active in commenting, not putting up photos everyday or just finished their project and were not coming back. Also I do not follow everyone who follows me. I follow styles I like, but sometimes I follow new people because I see potential or I like their on-line personality.
If you are not active in commenting on others work etc, you will not receive the love you desire lol....even just having this discussion will get you some new followers. Good luck.
hi andrew, i have just started my first week, i think the idea look at people photos and put your views...i love people to give views on my photos but i think its only a matter of time...keep pushing on you got some great photos mate
@vokesy Like many have said, you get what you give on this site. However, sometimes what happens is that people start off following a lot of people/commenting, etc, so they get followers. Over time, many of those followers "die" -- they become inactive, or they post but never comment. So, people will remove those followers..and then after awhile a person might have a lot of followers but not be following all that many, because he or she deleted so many dead and dying accounts (but those deleted "zombi" people still follow said person)
There are those people who are awesome and have a million followers and who choose not to follow many..but usually those people really are good.
Personally, I'm really bad at commenting on others photos-- so I don't really follow a lot of people because I don't want that kind of pressure haha! I just stick to the few friends I've made here, and I'm happy enough with our interaction.
But as others have said, it's all about your exposure! You could take the most beautiful picture this site has ever seen, but all it takes is 20ish other people to upload minutes after you before your image is bumped off the "new" page. So, how are people going to see your great work?
Try posting pictures in threads that say "Your favorite b&w photo you took this week". Now you have a multitude of people all seeing your picture! And if people really like what you posted, and you start getting a lot of fav's/comments, your photo might go to the popular page for that day-- and if it goes REALLY well, maybe to the home page of 365 as well! How about that exposure? And if goes really really reaaaaaaally well, that "front page" photo may also make it to the Top 20 for that week, and then now you get even more exposure!
Another exposure tactic is to participate in the weekly theme, because people will sometimes click that specific tag and see what perspective others have on that week's theme. And once again, maybe that photo will make it to the "theme vote", where whether you win/lose, your work has received a ton of exposure once more.
I'm not a 365 wizard or anything, this is actually only my 41st day here! Just saying you don't need to do the whole "I follow you, if you follow me" thing in order to get a following. People will gravitate to you and your style once you give yourself a bit more exposure. I'm probably a prime example of someone new here with an awkward ratio and "average" photos (I'm here to improve)!
Because people like seeing their photos on their homepage?
I don't go along with "Follow Back" ideas - I never have on Twitter, and I don't here. As far as I'm concerned, I follow people whose posts I like, or find interesting - whether they're following me or not is irrelevant.
These people with hundreds of followers who only post "fairly average" photos may not interest you particularly, but clearly there are plenty of other people who do enjoy seeing their posts. That could be for a variety of reasons...
Maybe because they live in a certain area, and people like seeing photos from that country/city/continent? Maybe they always have a great back-story to accompany each "fairly average" picture? Maybe they just seem like a really nice person?
I don't know. And I don't really care. I suppose everyone has their own reasons for following the people they do, and for not following the people they don't. I just take pictures.
General formula that usually works to gain more followers:
#1: Fave some photos. If I see an account that has zero of few faves, that sends me a clear message that that person isn't impressed with anyone's work; which sadly makes it hard for me to be impressed with theirs.
#2: You aren't following me. Most people who follow me see an instant jump in their followers, because people recognize they have a critical and discerning eye that can recognize talent.
Now, one of the recommendations above is true. The other is more true.
Get involved, and vocally appreciate other's work if you want your own work appreciated. And for what it's worth, you've been submitting some pretty great work.
Andrew, I think its more about the people you follow, rather than who follows you -- but I get ahead of myself.
First you need to recognize that you asked the single question guaranteed to rile this board up. So understand that some of the feedback you get here is simply because of the question you, in all innocence asked.
Second, evaluate why you are here on 365 and then continue to ask that question as time goes on. I joined this community knowing absolutely nothing about it -- I was looking for structure to support my new years resolution. Then, I got a few followers based on admittedly terrible work. My participation changed -- I felt like I had an obligation to contribute to this group in a meaningful way -- not just take a photo every day, but post something that wouldn't bore this group to tears.
I was sailing along, enjoying the "nice photo" comments, and then I put something up that I was really proud of. And, got lots of " nice shot" comments, but two comments that said, "this was great but would have been better if you'd done XYZ". It hurt! But then I realized I had so much to learn from this crowd - both about responding to photos, but also, more importantly about taking photos.
I found an article in the blogs section (maybe), that talked about how to be a good participant in this site. If I find it, I will attach to another message. One thing I took from it was include specifics in your praise -- not just "nice shot", but " I really like the lighting/composition/subject matter, etc.,e t.c". I realized that this is part of developing the relationship with others on this site -- its a conversation, not just a declaration. And, I realized that's what I appreciated from others. Not that they liked, it, but WHY they liked it, so I could do it again.
I'm not ready to be specific with my criticism -- I'm just not that good of a photographer to criticize someone else's work. But, I'm learning from my positive assessments of others photos, as well as theirs of mine. AND, I learn from comments posted on other people's photos -- I focus on those I follow, rather than those who follow me.
I still get positive comments on photos I know aren't great. I take them as a token of the "friendship" I have with these folks. Because I know that some day, a really great shot will get a comment, and things will snowball. And, that's what really gets your followers ((if that's really what you want).
You post a good photo and your very few followers view, comment and fav it. 365 lore is that the ratio of these actions to your number of followers, so the lower number of followers work in your favor.
All of a sudden, on the bottom right hand of the New Faces page you see your photo. And, so will other people, and they will fav and follow you. You will see your photo creep to the top left hand of the New Faces screen.
And, if you're really lucky, it will jump from New Faces to Popular, which will get you even more views and favs and followers. this has only happened to me once, and for just a few seconds, but the number of followers I picked up from that was amazing!
All of that will get you followers.............. if that's what you want. I think, for my personal journey, the people I follow are more important -- I select those with care, and prune the group when I see a shameless self promoter, or someone who's complete body of work just doesn't spark my interest. I'm on here to learn from those I follow, rather than get attention from a large group of people.
I review the suggestions, new faces and popular pages often. I click through and look at more than just that one picture to see if that's someone I would be interested in following. Then I commit to that person and their work.
One more thing (this has turned into a long rambling post.) Don't just post a photo and expect everyone to "get it". Spend time in your description section, tell a story, explain why this was important to you -- hell, sometimes we just need someone to tell us what the heck it is! This will help you build that relationship with your community.
Follow all the suggestions people have given you here and stop worrying about followers -- it will happen organically if you become a real part of this community.
I had no idea that having zero/few faves could give that sort of impression :s! I'm going to go fav some right now-- in my shame.. Haha, thanks for shedding some light for the terrible communicators! :p
Its not quantity of followers its quality you need. I would rather have 1 follower who left regular feedback, than 100 names who maybe don't even look at my photos. Follow people you like and join in the discussions and you will soon pick up followers.
Give and get involved and connect. I think if you say hey nice picture, you've less chance of gaining a follower than if you say 'hey I live in Ottowa too, I love that you use a Pentax so do I!!' you know, so you've gotta build a catchment of like minded individuals, for me thats a good place to start from. I've got 29 I follow and 306 followers, but I think I couldn't keep in touch with more than 29 and when people leave I delete them.
Did you already ask yourself why you started your project? I believe it's about photography, not about the number of followers. Just do your thing and enjoy what you're doing :-)
@mastermek Of course I know exactly why I started the project, and it wasn't to have 100's of people telling me I'm the best photographer on the planet, of course I'm not and wouldn't want people saying so, by comparison to some of the people on here I'm very average. But at the end of the day, it is a community and interaction means a lot. Having some of your best photos go virtually unnoticed can be discouraging! Although I have learnt from this forum that I need to get more involved myself, and I have already started doing this.
@ridley Not at all, I wasn't even expecting much of a response to this question, to be honest. I thought I'd get one or two responses just telling me to get over it, and that would be it! But you, you gave it passion and energy... I like that! :o) All advice taken on board! Thanks Michelle!
@vokesy Good observation and thanks for bringing it up. I've been wondering the same thing. It is a curious thing how some may have only a few shots and have 50 and hundreds of followers. And there are some who have lots of photos and only a handful of people following them. I'm becoming a regular participant but most days I'm lucky if I get more than a handful of viewings and even luckier if I get a comment. But that's a "nice to have" not what this project is about, eh?
I think a few really good points have been brought up here and is a great reminder to me, too:
It's not a competition and your project isn't about how "liked" you are. Enjoy the process and embrace all the inspiration this community offers. And in return encourage and raise up those who are learning and growing, too. Agreeing with so much of what is said here. Beauty is in the beholder and maybe following those who inspire you the most or have a similar style may be a good idea. I also like to follow those whom I admire but maybe aren't generally my style. The style contrast is "out of the box" and pushes me to try new techniques and skills with my photography. And then there are those who are so out of my league I just stare in awe.
@ridley Really appreciate your thoughtfulness on this topic, particularly in selecting those you follow with care and prune your group to keep your photography focused. "Stop worrying about followers -- it will happen organically if you become a real part of this community." Agreed and appreciate the reminder. Also, thanks for the link.
I've been on the receiving end of losing followers and it doesn't feel good but the goal of this project is to learn and grow. Most days I'm lucky if I get more than a handful of views and even more lucky if I get a comment. But, like it's been said, it's more about being involved in a community of supportive photographers and staying focused on the growth of your own project. It's really sweet to hear "nice" things from my 365 friends but what's valued even more are the critiques or thoughtful perspectives with the intention of learning from what we don't know and what others see. I'm looking forward to seeing how participating more in the community might bring forth added support and encouragement to the project (and those fabulous followers I'm doing this project for... hehe!).
And not getting feedback or not having many followers from others is feedback in itself. Hmmm... LOL!
I am new and have quite a few followers - and I am probably what you would consider to be 'fairly average' - but I love to look at the pics of those I follow and comment. I am inspired by the talent here and in just a month I have learned so much.
I try to include cute stories with my pics and while I will probably not ever have anything make PP, I am OK with that - it wasn't my goal when I joined.
As with anything else - you get what you give. I make time each day to see what those I follow have posted, and comment on their pics.
Follow others, fav pics, comment, and you will get followers too.
I am in the group of having tons of followers but not many I follow myself. I've gone from following 150+ to only following on average around 30. Most of them stopped posting, the others completed their projects so I get rid of them if they aren't around. I dont tend to really care about upping the people I follow nowadays bc I simply can't be loyal enough to comment regularly. The way I see it, if you cant at least comment every now and then to someone you follow then what is the point
When I found 365 I was looking for a place to keep me on track for my project and hopefully help with ideas when I am drawing blanks. The friends I get to make is a bonus, I don't really put to much weight on how many people are following me.
I have to admit I admire the popular pics and the top 20s and favs and all those and use them for inspiration for my own photography. But what I treasure is individual, specific feedback that nudges, informs, and teaches.
I really like how @julz put it -- it's not about competition, but about process and inspiration. Our own personal journeys within a wonderfully supportive community. I also want to embrace what @kevinmckay posted: "Instead of focusing on how much you can accomplish, focus on how much you can absolutely love what you’re doing."
@vokesy You're quite right. But... let me rephrase myself... You say interaction with the community means a lot. That's an important note because you will get involved automatically, like you already did. Right! The more you do that the more response you will get and you're the one setting those borders. Well done so far Andrew. Just do your thing and enjoy what you're doing :-) All good things will follow!
My reason for starting 365 was to give myself goals and challenges to take more photos and improve my skills. I didn't once think I wanted a million followers (I haven't), or continuous praise. It was more getting hints and tips on improving my hobby. In all honesty, the more followers I get, the more I feel I HAVE to comment and it takes time to do that, and I certainly don't want to spend all my time commenting everytime I come here to upload my photos. I do comment and FAV photos I like...especially those that inspire me, but the number of followers shouldn't matter.
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Basically, around here, you get what you give... although it's not a rule... it does still hold to be quite true!!!
Also, and I mean no disrespect by this, but I don't always follow everyone who follows me. There are thousands of fabulous photographers on here but I tend to follow people whose style I like.
For the rest of us its comment, comment, comment, like making friends in the real world, one conversation does not make a friend, it takes consistency. 6 weeks into my project I had 17 followers.... it does accellerate once you get involved.... best to follow those at a similar stage and ability to you and then expand out.
@vokesy
my shots are definitely average, but I can accept that..for now
@jase_h I think it's important to be realistic. I've only just really started out and am not only still learning (as most of us are, I think), I'm also at the start of that process, like a lot of people here. "Average" isn't to be taken badly, I don't think.
If you are not active in commenting on others work etc, you will not receive the love you desire lol....even just having this discussion will get you some new followers. Good luck.
There are those people who are awesome and have a million followers and who choose not to follow many..but usually those people really are good.
But as others have said, it's all about your exposure! You could take the most beautiful picture this site has ever seen, but all it takes is 20ish other people to upload minutes after you before your image is bumped off the "new" page. So, how are people going to see your great work?
Try posting pictures in threads that say "Your favorite b&w photo you took this week". Now you have a multitude of people all seeing your picture! And if people really like what you posted, and you start getting a lot of fav's/comments, your photo might go to the popular page for that day-- and if it goes REALLY well, maybe to the home page of 365 as well! How about that exposure? And if goes really really reaaaaaaally well, that "front page" photo may also make it to the Top 20 for that week, and then now you get even more exposure!
Another exposure tactic is to participate in the weekly theme, because people will sometimes click that specific tag and see what perspective others have on that week's theme. And once again, maybe that photo will make it to the "theme vote", where whether you win/lose, your work has received a ton of exposure once more.
I'm not a 365 wizard or anything, this is actually only my 41st day here! Just saying you don't need to do the whole "I follow you, if you follow me" thing in order to get a following. People will gravitate to you and your style once you give yourself a bit more exposure. I'm probably a prime example of someone new here with an awkward ratio and "average" photos (I'm here to improve)!
Hope that helps!
I don't go along with "Follow Back" ideas - I never have on Twitter, and I don't here. As far as I'm concerned, I follow people whose posts I like, or find interesting - whether they're following me or not is irrelevant.
These people with hundreds of followers who only post "fairly average" photos may not interest you particularly, but clearly there are plenty of other people who do enjoy seeing their posts. That could be for a variety of reasons...
Maybe because they live in a certain area, and people like seeing photos from that country/city/continent? Maybe they always have a great back-story to accompany each "fairly average" picture? Maybe they just seem like a really nice person?
I don't know. And I don't really care. I suppose everyone has their own reasons for following the people they do, and for not following the people they don't. I just take pictures.
#1: Fave some photos. If I see an account that has zero of few faves, that sends me a clear message that that person isn't impressed with anyone's work; which sadly makes it hard for me to be impressed with theirs.
#2: You aren't following me. Most people who follow me see an instant jump in their followers, because people recognize they have a critical and discerning eye that can recognize talent.
Now, one of the recommendations above is true. The other is more true.
Get involved, and vocally appreciate other's work if you want your own work appreciated. And for what it's worth, you've been submitting some pretty great work.
First you need to recognize that you asked the single question guaranteed to rile this board up. So understand that some of the feedback you get here is simply because of the question you, in all innocence asked.
Second, evaluate why you are here on 365 and then continue to ask that question as time goes on. I joined this community knowing absolutely nothing about it -- I was looking for structure to support my new years resolution. Then, I got a few followers based on admittedly terrible work. My participation changed -- I felt like I had an obligation to contribute to this group in a meaningful way -- not just take a photo every day, but post something that wouldn't bore this group to tears.
I was sailing along, enjoying the "nice photo" comments, and then I put something up that I was really proud of. And, got lots of " nice shot" comments, but two comments that said, "this was great but would have been better if you'd done XYZ". It hurt! But then I realized I had so much to learn from this crowd - both about responding to photos, but also, more importantly about taking photos.
I found an article in the blogs section (maybe), that talked about how to be a good participant in this site. If I find it, I will attach to another message. One thing I took from it was include specifics in your praise -- not just "nice shot", but " I really like the lighting/composition/subject matter, etc.,e t.c". I realized that this is part of developing the relationship with others on this site -- its a conversation, not just a declaration. And, I realized that's what I appreciated from others. Not that they liked, it, but WHY they liked it, so I could do it again.
I'm not ready to be specific with my criticism -- I'm just not that good of a photographer to criticize someone else's work. But, I'm learning from my positive assessments of others photos, as well as theirs of mine. AND, I learn from comments posted on other people's photos -- I focus on those I follow, rather than those who follow me.
I still get positive comments on photos I know aren't great. I take them as a token of the "friendship" I have with these folks. Because I know that some day, a really great shot will get a comment, and things will snowball. And, that's what really gets your followers ((if that's really what you want).
You post a good photo and your very few followers view, comment and fav it. 365 lore is that the ratio of these actions to your number of followers, so the lower number of followers work in your favor.
All of a sudden, on the bottom right hand of the New Faces page you see your photo. And, so will other people, and they will fav and follow you. You will see your photo creep to the top left hand of the New Faces screen.
And, if you're really lucky, it will jump from New Faces to Popular, which will get you even more views and favs and followers. this has only happened to me once, and for just a few seconds, but the number of followers I picked up from that was amazing!
All of that will get you followers.............. if that's what you want. I think, for my personal journey, the people I follow are more important -- I select those with care, and prune the group when I see a shameless self promoter, or someone who's complete body of work just doesn't spark my interest. I'm on here to learn from those I follow, rather than get attention from a large group of people.
I review the suggestions, new faces and popular pages often. I click through and look at more than just that one picture to see if that's someone I would be interested in following. Then I commit to that person and their work.
One more thing (this has turned into a long rambling post.) Don't just post a photo and expect everyone to "get it". Spend time in your description section, tell a story, explain why this was important to you -- hell, sometimes we just need someone to tell us what the heck it is! This will help you build that relationship with your community.
Follow all the suggestions people have given you here and stop worrying about followers -- it will happen organically if you become a real part of this community.
a good read.
@monkeykid Oh, a ton I'm sure Therese. ;-)
I had no idea that having zero/few faves could give that sort of impression :s! I'm going to go fav some right now-- in my shame.. Haha, thanks for shedding some light for the terrible communicators! :p
I think a few really good points have been brought up here and is a great reminder to me, too:
It's not a competition and your project isn't about how "liked" you are. Enjoy the process and embrace all the inspiration this community offers. And in return encourage and raise up those who are learning and growing, too. Agreeing with so much of what is said here. Beauty is in the beholder and maybe following those who inspire you the most or have a similar style may be a good idea. I also like to follow those whom I admire but maybe aren't generally my style. The style contrast is "out of the box" and pushes me to try new techniques and skills with my photography. And then there are those who are so out of my league I just stare in awe.
@ridley Really appreciate your thoughtfulness on this topic, particularly in selecting those you follow with care and prune your group to keep your photography focused. "Stop worrying about followers -- it will happen organically if you become a real part of this community." Agreed and appreciate the reminder. Also, thanks for the link.
I've been on the receiving end of losing followers and it doesn't feel good but the goal of this project is to learn and grow. Most days I'm lucky if I get more than a handful of views and even more lucky if I get a comment. But, like it's been said, it's more about being involved in a community of supportive photographers and staying focused on the growth of your own project. It's really sweet to hear "nice" things from my 365 friends but what's valued even more are the critiques or thoughtful perspectives with the intention of learning from what we don't know and what others see. I'm looking forward to seeing how participating more in the community might bring forth added support and encouragement to the project (and those fabulous followers I'm doing this project for... hehe!).
And not getting feedback or not having many followers from others is feedback in itself. Hmmm... LOL!
I try to include cute stories with my pics and while I will probably not ever have anything make PP, I am OK with that - it wasn't my goal when I joined.
As with anything else - you get what you give. I make time each day to see what those I follow have posted, and comment on their pics.
Follow others, fav pics, comment, and you will get followers too.
I really like how @julz put it -- it's not about competition, but about process and inspiration. Our own personal journeys within a wonderfully supportive community. I also want to embrace what @kevinmckay posted: "Instead of focusing on how much you can accomplish, focus on how much you can absolutely love what you’re doing."