First, battery grip vs multiple batteries in the pocket? I have rather tiny hands and my Canon 70D already feels quite big. I shoot mostly landscapes at the moment, but some other photogigs coming up as well. Children, graduation, wedding.. And maybe hopefully some day concert photography. One battery lasts quite long, I can usually fill up my 16G card with one battery. While I change the card, I can easily change the battery as well. Will I miss something if I don't use a grip?
And then Speedlites! Since there will be more and more portrait work coming up, I will definitely need one. Never had one, once I got to try one. Should I use only Canon? I have searched some and a brand called Yongnuo came up. Anyone using? Would you consider using? Any others to think about?
Lenses. I do most of my portrait work with 1.8 50mm prime and I love it! Totally worth the money. Though now I have started to wish just a bit more wider view. 35mm is on my list next. Maybe? 70D is a cropped sensor, so obviously maybe at some point upgrading to a full frame will be ahead. Should my next lens be something that would fit into a full frame as well? Would my crop sensor be able to use the full benefits of a full frame lens? Of course that would mean the $$$ I don't know will I ever have.. And then again, should I look up other brands? Sigma? Tamron?
And then I want to say I love this community. So much inspiration all around! Keep taking those pictures! Yes, you! The one who finished reading this whole post. Thank you!
I had a battery grip on my last camera and loved it. Not just because of the increased battery life, but mostly because it made shooting in portrait so much nicer, with the replicated shutter button and controls. It definitely does add bulk though. I haven't got a grip with my new camera yet (which is already a lot bulkier anyway) so I'm not sure if I will or not.
I have two Yongnuos, and they are fabulous! First I got a yn568ii which does all the fancy ettl metering etc. then I got a basic yn560iii for off camera, multi flash scenarios. I actually prefer using the manual 560 - it gives me more direct control over the outcome. These flashes are well made and inexpensive - especially compared to the Canons. Highly recommend them.
Once I knew I wanted to upgrade to full frame, I only bought lenses that did both. The advantage of a ff lens on a crop camera is that you are only using the sweet spot in the middle of the lens - image quality lessens as you get further out. It is always worth investing in good lens - way more benefit that changing camera bodies.
Have you thought about a good zoom lens rather than prime? The canon 24-105 f4L is a great quality lens, with IS as well. I also have Sigma and Tamron, which are great. As with any lens, once you identify a potential purchase, do lots of research. Every manufacturer has good lenses and not so good ones. I find slrgear.com a good place for research.
@tande I do corporate event photography and portraiture, and when I shooting for "myself" my favorite genre is street photography. I have the following recommendations for you:
1. Personally I don't use a grip, I just keep a second battery on me. (My hands are large, but gracious...I will do anything to keep the weight down lol! After a couple of hours the camera feels like an anchor! Now out of all the investments you've listed this is the cheapest. At events I keep a brand name battery in the camera, and carry an off brand battery I picked up from B&H, for around $30 I think, in my pocket. There have been times I needed it.
2. Speedlites. These could almost warrant a whole article. I'm going to go broad stroke and try to keep it short and simple. There are two approaches you can take controlling your speedite, TTL (through-the-lens camera does all the work and you override with flash compensation), or full manual. There are a lot of reasons manual is better...and I don't recommend manual just because I think manual is more "hardcore" or anything silly like that. To mention one small thing, you actually get more mileage out of your batteries when going manual over TTL. Also manual-only flashes are also considerably cheaper. There's a host of other reasons, but I would like to avoid that debate at the moment and just stick to a streamlined response. Most everyone I work with uses manual, but there are high profile professionals who do use TTL. I would encourage you to take the manual approach, but I'll recommend a few flashes regardless:
a. Younguo YN-560 III: This flash is manual control only, but can be picked up for $70. It is however slightly cheaply built and seems to last 1...sometimes 2 years.
b. LumoPro LP180: My recommendation for a manual control flash. Can be obtained for under $200 and is quite solidly built. My favorite flash.
c. Phottix Mitros+ TTL Flash for Canon: My recommendation for a TTL *and* manual speedlite for you. Can be obtained for under $400, has great manufacturer TTL compatibility and is quality built.
d. Canon 580ex II: Name brand for your camera for TTL & manual, but runs about $500.
In summary, if you think you would like to start off in flash photography with TTL and then eventually transition at some point to manual then I recommend C, or D if your budget allows. If you would like to skip straight to manual then I recommend B.
Lenses: Another one that deserves its own article lol! I think anyone should find it 'difficult' to recommend a lens to another photographer. Only you can know what your most common shooting conditions are and what you find yourself *needing* the most in terms of focal length. Often the "all in one" lenses are recommended. While they are perfectly fine for general use, I never use them my event photography...they are just too slow. If you're shooting primarily in daylight, and finding you need a great range of focal length then by all means consider an all-purpose zoom. Bang for buck however, on your crop sensor, you might enjoy a 35mm f/1.8 in the bag. For $200 it's a heck of a lens when your indoors at an event. Finally, if you are going to need primo images for an event, and are getting paid for your work, then what I'd actually recommend is the 24-70mm f/2.8 and the 70-200mm f/2.8. Personally I have the Tamron lenses and they do very nicely. Unfortunately they are $1,000-$1,500 each. The good news is that most of the time you can rent these lenses (Canon or Tamron) from your local camera shop for $35/day. So I would invest in the lens(es) you think you will get the most out of right away, and if you need a very high quality lens for a client, rent it! :)
I hope these comments help, I would actually recommend investing in the gear in the order presented as budget permits. Do however take all these recommendations with a grain of salt, ultimately it will come down to what you feel is the piece of gear that is causing you to miss important shots right now...and that will be the piece to get into the bag. All the best!! :)
hi Tanja @tande very much in agreement with @kiwisnapper I love my battery grips and I don't have very big hands, they seem to give me better balance. I have two Yongnuo 560iii flashes, they are great. In fact I grab one of those over my Canon flash. I made the mistake of buying the AWESOME Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM Lens....but it wasn't FF and I've gone FF, so as Ashley says, if you are thinking you might one day go FF, careful what lens you buy :)
Have fund spending, I've just pre ordered the EOS M3
Thank you so much for the responses, so helpful!! :) i skip the grip for now atleast, just got a couple more batteries. I found some Yongnuo flashes that will be in my bag soon. I found a kit package with two YN-560 IV flashes with aYN-560-TX transmitter or should I stick with one flash only for starters? Too confusing! I need to get them rather sooner than later, that I'll have time to practice before the upcoming wedding in July...
I have an old Sigma 2.8 24-70mm. Love/hate relationship with that one, expecially after I got the 50mm prime! The Sigma one is so heavy and the zoom ring gets stuck sometimes. Prime lenses are so much easier to carry with and I honestly think that carrying only 50mm lens with me has made me a better photographer.
Isn't it every photographers dream to go FF one day? ;)
@kiwisnapper right, so 35mm.on my crop will be much wider on FF.. And with two flashes I will probably need atleast one stand for the flash. Damn, why have I chosen such an expensive hobby! :D
A lot to learn with Speedlights, it's a whole new world. I use Meike for 1/3 the price of native camera brands. Essential to go with TTL (Through the Lens) flashes unless you want headaches every time you shoot, and of course off-camera for portraits. Don't forget flash stands, they are not expensive. The flash on your 70D will act as a remote TTL commander, so you won't need a specialized trigger.
And no, FF is not essential to shoot well. Your 70D is a most capable camera. What would, say the 5Diii (much better the R when it reaches the market) do for you that your 70D doesn't? If you can't answer specifically, you certainly don't need to upgrade. The 6D could be considered a downgrade for you even.
@frankhymus i only upgraded to 70D last year, and then looked up 6D as well, but thought I will get my money's more worth with 70D. So I'm definitely happy with the body for now and not planning on upgrading in a long long time! But guess that depends on where my photography career takes me. If I keep doing a gig every now and then, I won't probably never own a FF. For now I will concentrate on the flashes and lenses.
@frankhymus Strongly disagree with "essential to go with TTL unless you want headaches" which I think is a rather unfair statement. I do think a photographer is free to choose between methods, or to even use both (and there are times I do rely on TTL); both methods come with their pros and cons. For me, manual is quite headache free.
@dbj "Essential" might overstate it, but for new, casual or infrequent users to consult the power/distance reference sheet or to remember the guide number and manually compute, even if one knows how to do it. And having to set and adjust the exposure in two (or three or four) places, camera and flashes...
@frankhymus Hmm...well, I don't manually compute anything I guess - maybe that's why I don't get headaches? :) I would also agree that starting off with TTL is a good idea for new/casual/infrequent photographers. Especially for casual shooting where the scene is changing between each shot. But for any photographer desiring to take the next step with strobe, manual should be a consideration.
There are times I do utilize the benefits of TTL. But the majority of the time (especially still life and for all portraiture) I prefer manual. Based on distance of flash to subject I take a guess at power. 1/8 or 1/4 power is 80% of the time a really good start in the majority of my shooting scenarios. A quick look at the LCD gives an idea of how over/under exposed the subject is. At that point there are several options, most commonly, step the power up or down on the flash (few clicks of a button and rotating the dial) or if I'm very close to the desired exposure and I don't feel like walking to the flash, aperture and/or ISO can be changed at camera. Then there's always the option (if composition permits) to ask the subject to take a step in a particular direction toward or away from the strobe. And finally I can always move the strobe. Having all those options is the benefit...being able to choose which option is going to be best for the scene. Compared to the single option of flash compensation. Yes, you can still move things around with TTL, but again, the exposure is going to recalculate on you and many times you don't want that to happen. Doesn't usually take more than two exposures to dial in. I don't think I've ever seen a power/distance sheet.
Cons of TTL for me:
- shorter battery life than with manual (agree not a make/break factor, but a factor none the less)
- longer recycle times (initially not noticeable on fresh batteries, but when batteries start wearing down it becomes noticeable and I have missed shots due to it)
- don't know what power the flash is at...i.e., I don't know if the last shot was taken at min or max power so I keep trying to dial flash compensation in and it has no effect with flash power being maxed one way or the other, OR I reach the limit of flash compensation and end up having to adjust some other factor manually anyway
- lack of "known" control/options: with TTL you've pretty much got flash compensation for control and that's about it. You change anything else in the scene (move subject/lights/composition) and the exposure is recalculated. Sometimes that's a benefit, but most the time it works against me. On manual the strobe output is going to be have consistent output 100% of the time presenting a lot more control options over the scene, and I always know where I am in relationship to the strobe's boundaries
- EDIT: Shoot...forgot one *really* important one...I find it far easier to balance strobe with ambient light in manual over TTL. Again, not that it's not possible to do so in TTL, just always has been easier in manual with both camera and flash.
In summary, I'm not arguing that TTL isn't a "professional" solution. But I do believe from experience that manual is still the most widely used solution and not because it's "professionally hardcore" or anything like that, but because it presents a lot of options with the knowledge that your flash output is not going to change between exposures due to re-metering of the scene.
I agree with @dbj - I find it far, far easier to get the look I am wanting with manual. Maybe I just don't understand TTL enough, as I am quite new to flash, but it frustrated me every time the TTL flash over-rode the settings I was trying for.
Thanks everyone! Based on this I think I want to see if I can get both in one, just so I can find out myself which will be better for me. The one time I tried a flash, I think it was on TTL and I didn't understand anything.. It flashed when I took a picture.
ok i'm going to wade in on this one (although its too late - sorry Tanja!) and say RE flashes, you DEFO want to go the TTL.
I'm with Frank and say that if the shooter doesnt use flash all the time and wants to just shoot, or is a newbie then TTL allows that. As the shooter gets more experienced, they can switch to full manual mode and theyve lost nothing right? Sure, the TTL transmission may cost a bit of extra juice but the answer really is to get decent batteries. Buy 2 sets of eneloops (the black ones) and they last ages. Its more money.. but not appreciably so.
I have 3 x Yongnuo 568exii's, some YN622-C transceivers and 1 x YN622-C-TX trigger. I've used them both in TTL situation and controlling manually from the trigger and it really depends on what i want to achieve. Sometimes, i'll go manual but thats only because I've shot with flashes alot and know at time of shoot that lighting i'm after and more specifically the light fall off that i'm looking for.
I DO remember as a newby asking "but whats the correct flash exposure for this setting" and wishing that there was an answer. The correct answer of course is what i wanted it to be, but as a newbie, what you're looking for is the voice of experience to say "do it this way". The TTL gives you that... it says "i'm based on algorithms, i think you should do this".
The other main issue i have @dbj is this from you :
"A quick look at the LCD gives an idea of how over/under exposed the subject is"
I think that because youre experienced, you mentally know what youre after. However, alot of the time, i doubt that someone without alot of experience will get this. When i'm constructing a scene, I still cant really get a proper understanding (from the back of the camera) of how the light drops off over the entire frame especially when using multiple light sources.
I use an eyeFi card to my iPad specifically for this. Yes, I can tell from the rear screen that the face is properly lit, but what about the dress, the hands, what about the rest of the frame all in relation to each other?. I think scrolling around doesnt give you the full impact and certainly viewing the whole image on the tiny LCD doesnt give it to you properly either. I appreciate that some people dont have the luxury for this but I do this because i know from experience that i've sometimes been quite unhappy with the light distribution when i see it on the computer as opposed to the rear screen which i was happy with at the time. I should add that no matter whether i shoot manual or TTL, I still check the results and adjust... i just sometimes use TTL as a quick blast to get me close to the flash exposure I want
These were all shot on TTL with exposure compensation in a kind of "run and gun" setup.
@toast All good points. I'm in full agreement (and think I said so in my comments) that TTL is probably the best place to start for the beginner/hobbyist/enthusiast. But I think I would still maintain that if a photographer has any plans to get serious with creating their own light, the sooner they start working with manual the better. I view it with the same principal as the camera modes. We encourage growing photographers to go beyond the camera's priority modes to understand and use Manual mode. We tell them that once they understand the control of Manual mode they will better benefit from what the camera is trying to do in the priority modes, and will be more proficient at overriding it and determining when to ditch the priority modes in favor of Manual. So why not the same for lighting? Again, agreed to the benefits of TTL. In "run and gun" at an event with no assistant and 'stuck' with on-camera flash (still bounced or otherwise modified though), I'm usually using TTL.
But I think it was only a few months of using a speedlite before I started going manual the majority of time. I kept going to my mentor because my light wasn't right; I couldn't acheive anything close to the results I saw in his work. He kept telling me to use manual and pointed me to Zack Arias OneLight (the original DVD he released years ago which I just looked up and saw its retired only available as a workshop?). Wow that changed everything, it was all so simple! I switched to manual and immediately started producing predictable and consistent results. It was much easier to isolate each factor and create the light I wanted in progressive steps. I wish now I hadn't wasted my $$'s on TTL-compatible speedlites. Would have got me a nice lens! I only really use one now when the situation calls for it.
So based on my experiences, I really shudder when I see anyone steered away from any aspect of photography by labeling it "difficult" or "hard" and "stay away, you don't need to bother to go there". I heard the very same, and I found very quickly that using speedlites in manual it is not as "difficult" or "hard" as it is often made out to be. In fact, arguably the opposite. Expore it all, understand it all. Then decide what's best for you.
Regarding the LCD. Agreed, it's challenging. A lot of zooming and panning around and its overall challenging to gauge falloff and shadow. I prefer to shoot tethered if I can. I use Capture One Pro for that. To recommend that though I felt was beyond scope. But to be honest, I'm stuck with the LCD more often than tethered. I hadn't heard about the eyeFI - I'm going to have to check that out! :D
defo a big thumbs up for Zack Arias... but do you think the advantage here is you being able to reach out to a pro in your area? I've found specifically (Anyone in Perth, Australia?) in some places pro's are very hesitant to give advice unless its backed by $ because they want to make a buck.
From my perspective, if you lack that experienced pro, i think that TTL gives a someone a better way to get accustomed at the start.. kind of dialing in quicker if you will. I think we're both have very similar end opinions its just the starting point of this discussion that we differ on. I likewise wouldnt suggest someone go TTL for a long period of time or unless the situation needs it :)
Regarding spending $ on TTL.. in my mind its not really that much more expensive. in the UK we've got :
YN560 exIII - £48
YN568 exII - £82
Compared to :
Canon 600 EX-RT - £370
I agree if we're still talking canon branded but YN are pretty good. And while the non TTL is half the price of a TTL, two of the YN568 exII are only half a canon flash. So we're talking the difference between 2 x TTL or 2 x Non TTL = £68.
The only lens i know for that is the 50mm f1.8 and thats awful.
EyeFi is amazing but I'd only recommend it if your camera can take 2 card slots which your D610 can right? Record RAW on primary, small JPG on your EyeFi and transmit that. I've had a friend shoot only on the EyeFi and the memory card died on her and she lost all the images.
@toast Yes, agreed on finding a pro mentor, I know it did push me along faster than I would have progessed otherwise.
Actually though, I think we are in agreement, I *do* think TTL *is* the place to start just like Auto is probably the place you're gonna start when you pick up a camera for the first time. And I also agree that as some elect to never explore past Auto (or maybe the priority modes) that there will also be many who will not find an interest in exploring beyond TTL and that's 100% fine.
I think the only point I was trying to make was that I didn't agree that TTL was the "be all, end all" and that there was no point to learning or using manual flash. And I certainly wouldn't want to see an aspiring professional who will probably fairly quickly advance into manual flash make the same mistake I did dropping $$$'s for four SB-900s because I thought it was necessary to have manufacturer TTL-compatible flashes across the board. Ouch! That's about $1500 USD I didn't need to spend and where the "I could have bought a lens" came from. Embarrasing. Interesting the YN568 has worked well for you, I had been steered away from their "manufacturer compatible" units due to reliability. But hey, I like first-hand references, so given yours then the next speedlite I need to replace I'll definitely consider their Nikon-compatible unit. Anything to save a buck! :-)
Yup, the D610 has two slots and I would definitely be able to write on each card as suggested...I'm off to B&H site to check in to this! Really glad you mentioned it, it sounds like a brilliant alternative to tether.
While I've clearly been a proponent of manual, I absolutely agree there is great value in having at least one flash that is both. So my recommendation would be a flash that it TTL-compatible for your camera. The next decision would be whether to go with your manufacturer brand, or third party. As to that I don't have a recommendation.
If I had it to do over again, my first flash would have been the Phottix Mitros+ (if it was available back then), and @toast has first-hand positive reference toward the compatibility of the Yongnuo YN568EX II which certainly must be considered. @frankhymus recommended the Meike as TTL-compatible to your Canon, I'm personally unfamiliar with that particular one but I'm absolutely positive his recommendation is solid. I guess in all of that I'm sorta recommending against a brand name speedlite (unless that is really what will make you feel most comfortable) because there are so many viable options now.
And finally, my recommendation regarding two speedlites vs one, is to get and start with the one. I started with four and got *way* in over my head real darn fast. If you look up Zack Arias and David Hobby, both talk about using one speedlite; one speedlite can go a *very* long way especially combined with a reflector or two. In fact, Zack Arias goes so far as to say "buy one speedlite and use it for a year, learn it inside and out before getting a second - wait another year and get a third and so-on." Now I can't say that probably isn't a bit extreme but I agree with the principle of it.
I agree with what @dbj recommends :
1. Dont go brand name... get a aftermarket unit. All three of us seem to have had positive experiences with the brands that we use *extra caveat below
2. Get 1 unit. Learn to use that on camera using direct flash and bounce. Learn to bounce it off walls, ceiling, behind you to a reflector and find out your do's and dont's and what you love.
*caveat here
With the Yongnuo in particular, they make a suite of products for you to expand - but i'm not sure about the other brands.
Eg.
First, you get one Yn568 EXII and use that on camera. Once you're bored of that, learn to use it off camera. I believe your canon 70D has a built in wireless trigger that can trigger this flash. In which case, bam you're off and running. Just get yourself a stand (£10), an umbrella (£10 or so) and youre good to go.
As you progress, maybe you want to try 2 lights.. well just buy another YN568 EXII, a YN622-X TX (trigger) and a couple of YN622-C transceivers and you can easily control the two flashes from the trigger that you put on your hotshoe. Add more flashes and triggers as you see fit
Also keep in mind, sometimes more light isnt always better... sometimes its just more light :)
@dbj by the way... 4 SB-900's ! whoa dude.... but i've heard theyre rock solid.
RE the YN568s.. i found that I would shoot a couple of test shots, chimp on the iPad, shoot a few more, chimp more until i'm happy (most of my setups are 2 lights), then blast away and direct the model where required till i hit what i was after.
I dont think i'm as trigger happy as most other shooters i've seen who seem to mash the button every half second, but i managed to overheat the unit after about 100 shots at full power shooting every few seconds. In hindsight, I should have probably pushed the ISO up one stop and halved the flash power to delay the overheating
so all up, while i dont think they may be as heat resistant as the SB900's they're still decent.
That said, I've just looked up the SB900 and it seems to have a guide number of 34 as opposed to 58 for the YN568?
I'm not sure if i've got that right but it seems the YN568 is more powerful?
@toast Actually, I have to correct myself and only make it worse; I realized after I posted it was actually 910's I had got but I didn't feel like editing the post to change it LOL. At any rate, the 900 and 910 have the same guide number as far as I know.
Now as to the guide numbers, the manufacturers list them weirdly sometimes...well by weird I mean that they like to mix up the other variables such as zoom or ISO or something. That's what I notice here. The guide number of 34m for the 900/910 is at 35mm zoom whereas the 58m guide number for the YN568 is at 105mm zoom. While I'm familiar with the Distance = GN / Aperture formula (even though I don't use it in favor of a few trial & error shots - sounds like you do the similar), I'll be honest that I don't know what the formula or math would be to convert the those two GNs to equivalent zoom in order to determine which one really packs more punch at the same zoom. My gut tells me its probably close, which is impressive.
I didn't really use the 910's; I traded them down for a 700, a couple of LP180's and other misc gear. (Still lost out overall...argh). I've tripped the thermal cutout on the 700 only once at while at an event shooting grips and grins, never tripped the LP180's and as mentioned never seriously used the 910's before dumping them. But I think we have similar approach to number of frames...I seem to shoot way less than others. I always get chided "pixels are free, shoot man!" but I dunno, I hate having to cull them later.
By the way, a question on the eyeFi: It needs an existing Wifi network, right? What about when on location - have you been able to use the iPhone hotspot or something to link the eyeFi and iPad when there isn't any other signal about? (Sorry to other readers for hijacking the thread to eyeFi; there's no private message feature or I would have used that).
Thank you thank you thank you! You've been so helpful with this! I just placed an order for one YN600EX-RT flash. It seemed to be the only one with both TTL and manual. Though I still don't quite understand the difference, but surely I will learn when I get the flash in my hands! Lots oof YouTube ahead I think! And maybe find my camera manual.. I also already have one reflector. My poor friends, they might need to model for me soon! ;)
Awesome! Just remember, when you want to use manual mode you may need to dive into the settings on the camera as well to stop it over-riding back to TTL.
@tande Awesome! Congratulations - you've just entered another realm of photography...creating your own light! :) By the way, that one actually has a radio transmitter already built in to it for when you get to operating one or more additional flashes off camera...so you have that going for you.
As far as TTL vs Manual, just think of it a little like "Auto" vs "Manual". When you mount the flash on the camera and turn it on, it will (most likely) already be TTL mode. On the LCD readout of the flash it will most likely say "TTL" or "ETTL". (I keep saying most likely because I don't have the flash and I didn't look up the manual for it before writing this response.) From there it's basically "point and shoot" operation. The camera does all the work to set the correct power of the flash.
However, just like the camera does without a flash, it will sometimes over-expose or under-expose the image when its light metering gets confused by too many dark or light tones in the image. The same happens with flash in TTL mode. It will sometimes set the power too high or too low (more often too high than too low I find). So what you do is use the "Flash Compensation" setting on your camera to override the flash power just as you do with the "Exposure Compensation" feature for the camera. (You might also be able to set the flash compensation right on the flash itself, but then that starts to edge against the whole point of TTL where you shouldn't need to directly adjust any settings on the flash itself unless you must.) So, if you take a picture and the flash was too bright, bring the flash compensation down into the "-" (minus) a few notches and so forth. Vice versa if the flash is not bright enough. That's really about all there is to TTL proper!
@dbj nope, the EyeFi card creates its own network.. then you get your iPad or phone to join that network. So yes, you can use it on location easily
Yes it means that the eyeFi sucks extra batteries, but I carry 3 batteries with me and 90% of the time i rarely go into the second battery and i've never used the third.
@tande congrats on that! I've actually never seen this before but it looks like the big daddy of them all.
RE what @dbj mentioned.. it shows as ETTL on the top left. Using the inbuilt trigger on your camera, you'll probably have to set this to manual if you're going to use it on manual mode. On ETTL mode, all you really control is Flash exposure compensation... it should be under the external flash controls. Alternatively when shooting, there should be a "Q" button at the back of the camera.. if you press this and scroll around, there should be a flash exposure control here too http://www.amazon.co.uk/YONGNUO-Speedlite-YN-600EX-RT-YN600EX-RT-600EX-RT/dp/B00R29OF2G
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I have two Yongnuos, and they are fabulous! First I got a yn568ii which does all the fancy ettl metering etc. then I got a basic yn560iii for off camera, multi flash scenarios. I actually prefer using the manual 560 - it gives me more direct control over the outcome. These flashes are well made and inexpensive - especially compared to the Canons. Highly recommend them.
Once I knew I wanted to upgrade to full frame, I only bought lenses that did both. The advantage of a ff lens on a crop camera is that you are only using the sweet spot in the middle of the lens - image quality lessens as you get further out. It is always worth investing in good lens - way more benefit that changing camera bodies.
Have you thought about a good zoom lens rather than prime? The canon 24-105 f4L is a great quality lens, with IS as well. I also have Sigma and Tamron, which are great. As with any lens, once you identify a potential purchase, do lots of research. Every manufacturer has good lenses and not so good ones. I find slrgear.com a good place for research.
Happy buying!
1. Personally I don't use a grip, I just keep a second battery on me. (My hands are large, but gracious...I will do anything to keep the weight down lol! After a couple of hours the camera feels like an anchor! Now out of all the investments you've listed this is the cheapest. At events I keep a brand name battery in the camera, and carry an off brand battery I picked up from B&H, for around $30 I think, in my pocket. There have been times I needed it.
2. Speedlites. These could almost warrant a whole article. I'm going to go broad stroke and try to keep it short and simple. There are two approaches you can take controlling your speedite, TTL (through-the-lens camera does all the work and you override with flash compensation), or full manual. There are a lot of reasons manual is better...and I don't recommend manual just because I think manual is more "hardcore" or anything silly like that. To mention one small thing, you actually get more mileage out of your batteries when going manual over TTL. Also manual-only flashes are also considerably cheaper. There's a host of other reasons, but I would like to avoid that debate at the moment and just stick to a streamlined response. Most everyone I work with uses manual, but there are high profile professionals who do use TTL. I would encourage you to take the manual approach, but I'll recommend a few flashes regardless:
a. Younguo YN-560 III: This flash is manual control only, but can be picked up for $70. It is however slightly cheaply built and seems to last 1...sometimes 2 years.
b. LumoPro LP180: My recommendation for a manual control flash. Can be obtained for under $200 and is quite solidly built. My favorite flash.
c. Phottix Mitros+ TTL Flash for Canon: My recommendation for a TTL *and* manual speedlite for you. Can be obtained for under $400, has great manufacturer TTL compatibility and is quality built.
d. Canon 580ex II: Name brand for your camera for TTL & manual, but runs about $500.
In summary, if you think you would like to start off in flash photography with TTL and then eventually transition at some point to manual then I recommend C, or D if your budget allows. If you would like to skip straight to manual then I recommend B.
Lenses: Another one that deserves its own article lol! I think anyone should find it 'difficult' to recommend a lens to another photographer. Only you can know what your most common shooting conditions are and what you find yourself *needing* the most in terms of focal length. Often the "all in one" lenses are recommended. While they are perfectly fine for general use, I never use them my event photography...they are just too slow. If you're shooting primarily in daylight, and finding you need a great range of focal length then by all means consider an all-purpose zoom. Bang for buck however, on your crop sensor, you might enjoy a 35mm f/1.8 in the bag. For $200 it's a heck of a lens when your indoors at an event. Finally, if you are going to need primo images for an event, and are getting paid for your work, then what I'd actually recommend is the 24-70mm f/2.8 and the 70-200mm f/2.8. Personally I have the Tamron lenses and they do very nicely. Unfortunately they are $1,000-$1,500 each. The good news is that most of the time you can rent these lenses (Canon or Tamron) from your local camera shop for $35/day. So I would invest in the lens(es) you think you will get the most out of right away, and if you need a very high quality lens for a client, rent it! :)
I hope these comments help, I would actually recommend investing in the gear in the order presented as budget permits. Do however take all these recommendations with a grain of salt, ultimately it will come down to what you feel is the piece of gear that is causing you to miss important shots right now...and that will be the piece to get into the bag. All the best!! :)
Have fund spending, I've just pre ordered the EOS M3
Thank you so much for the responses, so helpful!! :) i skip the grip for now atleast, just got a couple more batteries. I found some Yongnuo flashes that will be in my bag soon. I found a kit package with two YN-560 IV flashes with aYN-560-TX transmitter or should I stick with one flash only for starters? Too confusing! I need to get them rather sooner than later, that I'll have time to practice before the upcoming wedding in July...
I have an old Sigma 2.8 24-70mm. Love/hate relationship with that one, expecially after I got the 50mm prime! The Sigma one is so heavy and the zoom ring gets stuck sometimes. Prime lenses are so much easier to carry with and I honestly think that carrying only 50mm lens with me has made me a better photographer.
Isn't it every photographers dream to go FF one day? ;)
Don't forget, your 50mm will be wider on a FF - equivalent to around 30mm on your 70D. So it will be a whole new world!
And no, FF is not essential to shoot well. Your 70D is a most capable camera. What would, say the 5Diii (much better the R when it reaches the market) do for you that your 70D doesn't? If you can't answer specifically, you certainly don't need to upgrade. The 6D could be considered a downgrade for you even.
Interested what the cons of TTL might be?
There are times I do utilize the benefits of TTL. But the majority of the time (especially still life and for all portraiture) I prefer manual. Based on distance of flash to subject I take a guess at power. 1/8 or 1/4 power is 80% of the time a really good start in the majority of my shooting scenarios. A quick look at the LCD gives an idea of how over/under exposed the subject is. At that point there are several options, most commonly, step the power up or down on the flash (few clicks of a button and rotating the dial) or if I'm very close to the desired exposure and I don't feel like walking to the flash, aperture and/or ISO can be changed at camera. Then there's always the option (if composition permits) to ask the subject to take a step in a particular direction toward or away from the strobe. And finally I can always move the strobe. Having all those options is the benefit...being able to choose which option is going to be best for the scene. Compared to the single option of flash compensation. Yes, you can still move things around with TTL, but again, the exposure is going to recalculate on you and many times you don't want that to happen. Doesn't usually take more than two exposures to dial in. I don't think I've ever seen a power/distance sheet.
Cons of TTL for me:
- shorter battery life than with manual (agree not a make/break factor, but a factor none the less)
- longer recycle times (initially not noticeable on fresh batteries, but when batteries start wearing down it becomes noticeable and I have missed shots due to it)
- don't know what power the flash is at...i.e., I don't know if the last shot was taken at min or max power so I keep trying to dial flash compensation in and it has no effect with flash power being maxed one way or the other, OR I reach the limit of flash compensation and end up having to adjust some other factor manually anyway
- lack of "known" control/options: with TTL you've pretty much got flash compensation for control and that's about it. You change anything else in the scene (move subject/lights/composition) and the exposure is recalculated. Sometimes that's a benefit, but most the time it works against me. On manual the strobe output is going to be have consistent output 100% of the time presenting a lot more control options over the scene, and I always know where I am in relationship to the strobe's boundaries
- EDIT: Shoot...forgot one *really* important one...I find it far easier to balance strobe with ambient light in manual over TTL. Again, not that it's not possible to do so in TTL, just always has been easier in manual with both camera and flash.
In summary, I'm not arguing that TTL isn't a "professional" solution. But I do believe from experience that manual is still the most widely used solution and not because it's "professionally hardcore" or anything like that, but because it presents a lot of options with the knowledge that your flash output is not going to change between exposures due to re-metering of the scene.
Thanks everyone! Based on this I think I want to see if I can get both in one, just so I can find out myself which will be better for me. The one time I tried a flash, I think it was on TTL and I didn't understand anything.. It flashed when I took a picture.
I'm with Frank and say that if the shooter doesnt use flash all the time and wants to just shoot, or is a newbie then TTL allows that. As the shooter gets more experienced, they can switch to full manual mode and theyve lost nothing right? Sure, the TTL transmission may cost a bit of extra juice but the answer really is to get decent batteries. Buy 2 sets of eneloops (the black ones) and they last ages. Its more money.. but not appreciably so.
I have 3 x Yongnuo 568exii's, some YN622-C transceivers and 1 x YN622-C-TX trigger. I've used them both in TTL situation and controlling manually from the trigger and it really depends on what i want to achieve. Sometimes, i'll go manual but thats only because I've shot with flashes alot and know at time of shoot that lighting i'm after and more specifically the light fall off that i'm looking for.
I DO remember as a newby asking "but whats the correct flash exposure for this setting" and wishing that there was an answer. The correct answer of course is what i wanted it to be, but as a newbie, what you're looking for is the voice of experience to say "do it this way". The TTL gives you that... it says "i'm based on algorithms, i think you should do this".
The other main issue i have @dbj is this from you :
"A quick look at the LCD gives an idea of how over/under exposed the subject is"
I think that because youre experienced, you mentally know what youre after. However, alot of the time, i doubt that someone without alot of experience will get this. When i'm constructing a scene, I still cant really get a proper understanding (from the back of the camera) of how the light drops off over the entire frame especially when using multiple light sources.
I use an eyeFi card to my iPad specifically for this. Yes, I can tell from the rear screen that the face is properly lit, but what about the dress, the hands, what about the rest of the frame all in relation to each other?. I think scrolling around doesnt give you the full impact and certainly viewing the whole image on the tiny LCD doesnt give it to you properly either. I appreciate that some people dont have the luxury for this but I do this because i know from experience that i've sometimes been quite unhappy with the light distribution when i see it on the computer as opposed to the rear screen which i was happy with at the time. I should add that no matter whether i shoot manual or TTL, I still check the results and adjust... i just sometimes use TTL as a quick blast to get me close to the flash exposure I want
These were all shot on TTL with exposure compensation in a kind of "run and gun" setup.
But I think it was only a few months of using a speedlite before I started going manual the majority of time. I kept going to my mentor because my light wasn't right; I couldn't acheive anything close to the results I saw in his work. He kept telling me to use manual and pointed me to Zack Arias OneLight (the original DVD he released years ago which I just looked up and saw its retired only available as a workshop?). Wow that changed everything, it was all so simple! I switched to manual and immediately started producing predictable and consistent results. It was much easier to isolate each factor and create the light I wanted in progressive steps. I wish now I hadn't wasted my $$'s on TTL-compatible speedlites. Would have got me a nice lens! I only really use one now when the situation calls for it.
So based on my experiences, I really shudder when I see anyone steered away from any aspect of photography by labeling it "difficult" or "hard" and "stay away, you don't need to bother to go there". I heard the very same, and I found very quickly that using speedlites in manual it is not as "difficult" or "hard" as it is often made out to be. In fact, arguably the opposite. Expore it all, understand it all. Then decide what's best for you.
Regarding the LCD. Agreed, it's challenging. A lot of zooming and panning around and its overall challenging to gauge falloff and shadow. I prefer to shoot tethered if I can. I use Capture One Pro for that. To recommend that though I felt was beyond scope. But to be honest, I'm stuck with the LCD more often than tethered. I hadn't heard about the eyeFI - I'm going to have to check that out! :D
Very nice work by the way...
defo a big thumbs up for Zack Arias... but do you think the advantage here is you being able to reach out to a pro in your area? I've found specifically (Anyone in Perth, Australia?) in some places pro's are very hesitant to give advice unless its backed by $ because they want to make a buck.
From my perspective, if you lack that experienced pro, i think that TTL gives a someone a better way to get accustomed at the start.. kind of dialing in quicker if you will. I think we're both have very similar end opinions its just the starting point of this discussion that we differ on. I likewise wouldnt suggest someone go TTL for a long period of time or unless the situation needs it :)
Regarding spending $ on TTL.. in my mind its not really that much more expensive. in the UK we've got :
YN560 exIII - £48
YN568 exII - £82
Compared to :
Canon 600 EX-RT - £370
I agree if we're still talking canon branded but YN are pretty good. And while the non TTL is half the price of a TTL, two of the YN568 exII are only half a canon flash. So we're talking the difference between 2 x TTL or 2 x Non TTL = £68.
The only lens i know for that is the 50mm f1.8 and thats awful.
EyeFi is amazing but I'd only recommend it if your camera can take 2 card slots which your D610 can right? Record RAW on primary, small JPG on your EyeFi and transmit that. I've had a friend shoot only on the EyeFi and the memory card died on her and she lost all the images.
If I can afford either two manual ones or one with both, which one I should choose? Really love the long responses, thank you!
Actually though, I think we are in agreement, I *do* think TTL *is* the place to start just like Auto is probably the place you're gonna start when you pick up a camera for the first time. And I also agree that as some elect to never explore past Auto (or maybe the priority modes) that there will also be many who will not find an interest in exploring beyond TTL and that's 100% fine.
I think the only point I was trying to make was that I didn't agree that TTL was the "be all, end all" and that there was no point to learning or using manual flash. And I certainly wouldn't want to see an aspiring professional who will probably fairly quickly advance into manual flash make the same mistake I did dropping $$$'s for four SB-900s because I thought it was necessary to have manufacturer TTL-compatible flashes across the board. Ouch! That's about $1500 USD I didn't need to spend and where the "I could have bought a lens" came from. Embarrasing. Interesting the YN568 has worked well for you, I had been steered away from their "manufacturer compatible" units due to reliability. But hey, I like first-hand references, so given yours then the next speedlite I need to replace I'll definitely consider their Nikon-compatible unit. Anything to save a buck! :-)
Yup, the D610 has two slots and I would definitely be able to write on each card as suggested...I'm off to B&H site to check in to this! Really glad you mentioned it, it sounds like a brilliant alternative to tether.
While I've clearly been a proponent of manual, I absolutely agree there is great value in having at least one flash that is both. So my recommendation would be a flash that it TTL-compatible for your camera. The next decision would be whether to go with your manufacturer brand, or third party. As to that I don't have a recommendation.
If I had it to do over again, my first flash would have been the Phottix Mitros+ (if it was available back then), and @toast has first-hand positive reference toward the compatibility of the Yongnuo YN568EX II which certainly must be considered. @frankhymus recommended the Meike as TTL-compatible to your Canon, I'm personally unfamiliar with that particular one but I'm absolutely positive his recommendation is solid. I guess in all of that I'm sorta recommending against a brand name speedlite (unless that is really what will make you feel most comfortable) because there are so many viable options now.
And finally, my recommendation regarding two speedlites vs one, is to get and start with the one. I started with four and got *way* in over my head real darn fast. If you look up Zack Arias and David Hobby, both talk about using one speedlite; one speedlite can go a *very* long way especially combined with a reflector or two. In fact, Zack Arias goes so far as to say "buy one speedlite and use it for a year, learn it inside and out before getting a second - wait another year and get a third and so-on." Now I can't say that probably isn't a bit extreme but I agree with the principle of it.
1. Dont go brand name... get a aftermarket unit. All three of us seem to have had positive experiences with the brands that we use *extra caveat below
2. Get 1 unit. Learn to use that on camera using direct flash and bounce. Learn to bounce it off walls, ceiling, behind you to a reflector and find out your do's and dont's and what you love.
*caveat here
With the Yongnuo in particular, they make a suite of products for you to expand - but i'm not sure about the other brands.
Eg.
First, you get one Yn568 EXII and use that on camera. Once you're bored of that, learn to use it off camera. I believe your canon 70D has a built in wireless trigger that can trigger this flash. In which case, bam you're off and running. Just get yourself a stand (£10), an umbrella (£10 or so) and youre good to go.
As you progress, maybe you want to try 2 lights.. well just buy another YN568 EXII, a YN622-X TX (trigger) and a couple of YN622-C transceivers and you can easily control the two flashes from the trigger that you put on your hotshoe. Add more flashes and triggers as you see fit
Also keep in mind, sometimes more light isnt always better... sometimes its just more light :)
RE the YN568s.. i found that I would shoot a couple of test shots, chimp on the iPad, shoot a few more, chimp more until i'm happy (most of my setups are 2 lights), then blast away and direct the model where required till i hit what i was after.
I dont think i'm as trigger happy as most other shooters i've seen who seem to mash the button every half second, but i managed to overheat the unit after about 100 shots at full power shooting every few seconds. In hindsight, I should have probably pushed the ISO up one stop and halved the flash power to delay the overheating
so all up, while i dont think they may be as heat resistant as the SB900's they're still decent.
That said, I've just looked up the SB900 and it seems to have a guide number of 34 as opposed to 58 for the YN568?
I'm not sure if i've got that right but it seems the YN568 is more powerful?
Now as to the guide numbers, the manufacturers list them weirdly sometimes...well by weird I mean that they like to mix up the other variables such as zoom or ISO or something. That's what I notice here. The guide number of 34m for the 900/910 is at 35mm zoom whereas the 58m guide number for the YN568 is at 105mm zoom. While I'm familiar with the Distance = GN / Aperture formula (even though I don't use it in favor of a few trial & error shots - sounds like you do the similar), I'll be honest that I don't know what the formula or math would be to convert the those two GNs to equivalent zoom in order to determine which one really packs more punch at the same zoom. My gut tells me its probably close, which is impressive.
I didn't really use the 910's; I traded them down for a 700, a couple of LP180's and other misc gear. (Still lost out overall...argh). I've tripped the thermal cutout on the 700 only once at while at an event shooting grips and grins, never tripped the LP180's and as mentioned never seriously used the 910's before dumping them. But I think we have similar approach to number of frames...I seem to shoot way less than others. I always get chided "pixels are free, shoot man!" but I dunno, I hate having to cull them later.
By the way, a question on the eyeFi: It needs an existing Wifi network, right? What about when on location - have you been able to use the iPhone hotspot or something to link the eyeFi and iPad when there isn't any other signal about? (Sorry to other readers for hijacking the thread to eyeFi; there's no private message feature or I would have used that).
Thank you thank you thank you! You've been so helpful with this! I just placed an order for one YN600EX-RT flash. It seemed to be the only one with both TTL and manual. Though I still don't quite understand the difference, but surely I will learn when I get the flash in my hands! Lots oof YouTube ahead I think! And maybe find my camera manual.. I also already have one reflector. My poor friends, they might need to model for me soon! ;)
Happy flashing! ;-)
As far as TTL vs Manual, just think of it a little like "Auto" vs "Manual". When you mount the flash on the camera and turn it on, it will (most likely) already be TTL mode. On the LCD readout of the flash it will most likely say "TTL" or "ETTL". (I keep saying most likely because I don't have the flash and I didn't look up the manual for it before writing this response.) From there it's basically "point and shoot" operation. The camera does all the work to set the correct power of the flash.
However, just like the camera does without a flash, it will sometimes over-expose or under-expose the image when its light metering gets confused by too many dark or light tones in the image. The same happens with flash in TTL mode. It will sometimes set the power too high or too low (more often too high than too low I find). So what you do is use the "Flash Compensation" setting on your camera to override the flash power just as you do with the "Exposure Compensation" feature for the camera. (You might also be able to set the flash compensation right on the flash itself, but then that starts to edge against the whole point of TTL where you shouldn't need to directly adjust any settings on the flash itself unless you must.) So, if you take a picture and the flash was too bright, bring the flash compensation down into the "-" (minus) a few notches and so forth. Vice versa if the flash is not bright enough. That's really about all there is to TTL proper!
Yes it means that the eyeFi sucks extra batteries, but I carry 3 batteries with me and 90% of the time i rarely go into the second battery and i've never used the third.
RE what @dbj mentioned.. it shows as ETTL on the top left. Using the inbuilt trigger on your camera, you'll probably have to set this to manual if you're going to use it on manual mode. On ETTL mode, all you really control is Flash exposure compensation... it should be under the external flash controls. Alternatively when shooting, there should be a "Q" button at the back of the camera.. if you press this and scroll around, there should be a flash exposure control here too
http://www.amazon.co.uk/YONGNUO-Speedlite-YN-600EX-RT-YN600EX-RT-600EX-RT/dp/B00R29OF2G