Hey fellow 365ers, I just joined the Model Mayhem website because I really want to make a big go at portraits and people shots in my second year - can I ask if there's any testimonials of this site?
I heard, since its often time for print and there's no money involved, that the models often don't show up - and I have to say there seems a lot of sleezy guys and girls on there lowering the tone a bit. Even if you haven't experience of this site please give me any advice you have on shooting models and creating 'photo-shoots.' I'm worried I'm not imaginative enough or quick thinking enough but I have to start somewhere. If you're on tell me your MM number and I'll add you as a friend. Thanks!
Dave,
As with any experience in the modeling world, with trade for cd, half of the models show up, the other half cancel on you last minute. If I ever try and plan a shoot, I always make sure I line up a few other shoots at the same location that day so if one doesn't show up, I can always spend a little time on the next shoot if the real paying customers are early. And as for sleezy guys and girls, there are tons. I don't like implied, but I can respect it as an art form. You have to be upfront about what you want with the model. Let them bring an escort to make them feel comfortable.
I've been a member both as a (former) model and photographer. It's filled with "GWCs" - Guys With Cameras. Not really there to take photos, but instead trying to get with models. Granted, it's also filled with tons of girls who think they're models, but really just want to get hooked up with free photoshoots. I've never really pursued it as a photographer (plus models aren't really my thing, I prefer to only work with people who are personally referred, not random girls off the internet).
hey dave, well its one of the main sites - purestorm and netmodel are the other two. I havent had any experience with netmodel but have accounts on both MM and PS. From my experience, PS is targeted more towards the glamour / nude markets whereas MM is more general.
Yes, there will always be models who dont turn up and at also yes there are alot of GWCs. Its up to you to vet them by either communicating with people they've worked with before or just talking to them. With my shoots, I generally take a few hours pre shoot to come up with the main theme, lighting, example images. I'll then either post a casting call or contact models directly (if I think their look fits the shoot). Since i've put a bit of thought into the shoot, its USUALLY a fairly easy exercise to weed out the models who are more likely to flake on you by their correspondence - they're the ones that answer with one word or one sentence "great" "sounds good". What I'm looking for at this point is to have given them an idea of what i want and i'm hoping to find a model that can reply with what outfits / looks that they think they can achieve - something to tell me that theyve what i wrote and can punch out good images.
Here's the time that I say that I generally go for paid models as opposed to TF purely because of my time constraints with work. I just dont have enough time to put in 6 hours post production in the images within a week to get it to them :).
BUT and here's the big BUT.. the way I see TF is that its a collaboration - it is for your portfolio after all. both of you should be putting in ideas / example images to get what you want - you'll generally get better images.
Key points:
- always respect the model
- keep the model comfortable. If you're not doing a full length shot and she's got heels on, tell her youre not shooting her from the waist down so she can take off her heels / sit more comfortably. There'll be enough times in the shoot that you'll ask her to hold a difficult pose so any rest time she gets between will be good. You dont want scrunched up "I hurt" faces :)
- always ask permission before touching a model. You're adjusting the collar / brushing a stray bit of hair from her face, You'll never get a model that says no, but its polite and it helps gets rid of the "i'm a GWC" stigma
- Before you take a shot, stop and look at the model / set without the camera. Is everything in place? feet / hands just right.. hair in place. 30 seconds here will save you an hour in photoshop later. The
- Similar to the point above - the model cant see what you're seeing so her face may not be turned the way you want, something on her shoe, hair out of place, collars etc. take the time to let her know and / or adjust yourself if she cant get it
- After a few shots, look at the back of the camera to check the image and make the pose / etc is what you want. Show the model and tell him/her what you want them to change so that they have a reference. they may also have additional ideas which you wouldnt have thought about.
- print out your brief so you can keep checking back on it for ideas which you may have forgotten
- Have fun with it
err i'm sure there's many more but it all comes with time :)
@toast thanks for all that info Weng, I'd love to do more of this kind of work, ourdoors and in public and in the city but with a model - but I don't have any themes of set ideas. I'll have to keep thinking. If I had a purpose to spend money on models I would but I don't sell pics or anything so I'm looking for TF. I will follow all of this.
@ladyhsmiles@hmgphotos thanks for your replies ladies.
I'm just a 'guy with a camera' as I certainly don't want to make a living from commercial photography - hence TF basis, but I'm looking to take outdoor photos in the city - that's my interest - and have a new challenge - so maybe I'll avoid the sleezier end of the site. Thanks for your advice!
@chewyteeth I dont sell the pics either, but I just generally pay because I want a certain calibre of model and also dont have the time to spend on post processing ;)
lol Please dont use GWC to describe yourself. Its a derogatory term used in these circles generally to describe TOGS who generally dont have any talent, arent interested in learning anything and are just doing it to shoot naked pics of girls.
My 2 cents worth, think about what you want to do for your portfolio. You're starting out so it may very well be "lets just try everything and see what i'm good at / enjoy". Nothing wrong with that, it was my tactic when I started learning. If thats the case, surf through MM, pick a few images that you like and hammer them into some sort of idea. choose 3 different looks for your initial shoot, and see what you get.
Wash, rinse, repeat :)
@toast hey, can I ask one more question Weng since you've given such good advice - what does TFP ACTUALLY mean in the digital age, should I offer a certain number of printed digital images (how professionally printed), offer a CD or just offer to email all prints? And I presume its creative commons rights so she can show it where she wants but not sell it or process it herself? Do you put a watermark on them before you send them?
I felt more confident after reading peoples replies so I have possibly 3-4 shoots set up in january with really nice sounding people. Thanks!
@chewyteeth sorry mate, i didnt see this till just now. You're right, technically (and in the old days) literally meant Time For Print - but thats when people used to have physical portfolios so its not so relevant these days.
Generally now people just shorten it to TF (Time For) and by this they mean that they just want you to burn them on CD or email them the images. Every person has their way of how they want to do it. I generally upload the images onto my laptop, rate them, maybe some touching up and have maybe the best 10-15 images (or however many they want) and email them over in a small format. Once the model pics what they want, I'll do a bit more editing if required and send them the bigger ones.
watermark's a person issue... from my perspective if someone's working with me on a TF basis, then i'll give them the image without watermarks so they can use it how they want. IF they're using for their portfolio (especially with agencies) then the agency wont want the watermark on there as it becomes useless for them.
@toast thats amazing, I have a shoot tomorrow!! but not from MM, this is a practice for my own mind, get some pics on my port so I don't get confused with all the pervs on there - then I've got four models waiting on me picking a day so I might even start a tumblr for new year and make portraits my project. Cheers!
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As with any experience in the modeling world, with trade for cd, half of the models show up, the other half cancel on you last minute. If I ever try and plan a shoot, I always make sure I line up a few other shoots at the same location that day so if one doesn't show up, I can always spend a little time on the next shoot if the real paying customers are early. And as for sleezy guys and girls, there are tons. I don't like implied, but I can respect it as an art form. You have to be upfront about what you want with the model. Let them bring an escort to make them feel comfortable.
Best wishes!
Yes, there will always be models who dont turn up and at also yes there are alot of GWCs. Its up to you to vet them by either communicating with people they've worked with before or just talking to them. With my shoots, I generally take a few hours pre shoot to come up with the main theme, lighting, example images. I'll then either post a casting call or contact models directly (if I think their look fits the shoot). Since i've put a bit of thought into the shoot, its USUALLY a fairly easy exercise to weed out the models who are more likely to flake on you by their correspondence - they're the ones that answer with one word or one sentence "great" "sounds good". What I'm looking for at this point is to have given them an idea of what i want and i'm hoping to find a model that can reply with what outfits / looks that they think they can achieve - something to tell me that theyve what i wrote and can punch out good images.
Here's the time that I say that I generally go for paid models as opposed to TF purely because of my time constraints with work. I just dont have enough time to put in 6 hours post production in the images within a week to get it to them :).
BUT and here's the big BUT.. the way I see TF is that its a collaboration - it is for your portfolio after all. both of you should be putting in ideas / example images to get what you want - you'll generally get better images.
Key points:
- always respect the model
- keep the model comfortable. If you're not doing a full length shot and she's got heels on, tell her youre not shooting her from the waist down so she can take off her heels / sit more comfortably. There'll be enough times in the shoot that you'll ask her to hold a difficult pose so any rest time she gets between will be good. You dont want scrunched up "I hurt" faces :)
- always ask permission before touching a model. You're adjusting the collar / brushing a stray bit of hair from her face, You'll never get a model that says no, but its polite and it helps gets rid of the "i'm a GWC" stigma
- Before you take a shot, stop and look at the model / set without the camera. Is everything in place? feet / hands just right.. hair in place. 30 seconds here will save you an hour in photoshop later. The
- Similar to the point above - the model cant see what you're seeing so her face may not be turned the way you want, something on her shoe, hair out of place, collars etc. take the time to let her know and / or adjust yourself if she cant get it
- After a few shots, look at the back of the camera to check the image and make the pose / etc is what you want. Show the model and tell him/her what you want them to change so that they have a reference. they may also have additional ideas which you wouldnt have thought about.
- print out your brief so you can keep checking back on it for ideas which you may have forgotten
- Have fun with it
err i'm sure there's many more but it all comes with time :)
I'm just a 'guy with a camera' as I certainly don't want to make a living from commercial photography - hence TF basis, but I'm looking to take outdoor photos in the city - that's my interest - and have a new challenge - so maybe I'll avoid the sleezier end of the site. Thanks for your advice!
lol Please dont use GWC to describe yourself. Its a derogatory term used in these circles generally to describe TOGS who generally dont have any talent, arent interested in learning anything and are just doing it to shoot naked pics of girls.
My 2 cents worth, think about what you want to do for your portfolio. You're starting out so it may very well be "lets just try everything and see what i'm good at / enjoy". Nothing wrong with that, it was my tactic when I started learning. If thats the case, surf through MM, pick a few images that you like and hammer them into some sort of idea. choose 3 different looks for your initial shoot, and see what you get.
Wash, rinse, repeat :)
I felt more confident after reading peoples replies so I have possibly 3-4 shoots set up in january with really nice sounding people. Thanks!
Generally now people just shorten it to TF (Time For) and by this they mean that they just want you to burn them on CD or email them the images. Every person has their way of how they want to do it. I generally upload the images onto my laptop, rate them, maybe some touching up and have maybe the best 10-15 images (or however many they want) and email them over in a small format. Once the model pics what they want, I'll do a bit more editing if required and send them the bigger ones.
watermark's a person issue... from my perspective if someone's working with me on a TF basis, then i'll give them the image without watermarks so they can use it how they want. IF they're using for their portfolio (especially with agencies) then the agency wont want the watermark on there as it becomes useless for them.