Howdy folks. I need your assistance to help me select a theme for the next RAW edit competition. I personally see the challenge as a means to actually learn some new editing techniques for our digital post-production work.
I am assuming that folks entering a RAW editing contest actually have editors like PSE, PS, Lightroom, or Aperture.
Sometimes we don't have the ability to combine multiple exposures, or we have to deal with multiple light sources, or we may have a few things in a scene that would be best removed or covered up to lift what had good bones to the truly gorgeous.
I've whittled it down to two different types of challenges:
1 - Light balance and perspective correction
2 - Cloning and bland sky correction
Both of these pictures assisted me with exponential growth in regard of post-processing and the knowledge that sometimes you literally can turn a picture around in post-work. Obviously if you have a bad subject or composition, there isn't much that can be done!
Let me know here, over the next 12 hours from now as to which you'd be more interested in playing and learning with and that one shall be it for this week!
At the end of the week, when voting starts, I'll share what I did with the picture. I'm not after a copy of mine, I want to see what you can create from these ugly ducklings.
So please, give a vote over the next twelve hours to help my choice here.
@rellimdj I don't think so - ETSOII is going mad (in my book_, where as Raw Comp can leave things quite subtle. Of course, ETSOii coulc come in to RAWCOMP, but it doesn't have to.
@iwatts Thanks Ian - I guess it was because the winning photo of the last RAW was also tagged for ETSOOI and the edits to it weren't in my definition subtle. The sky was completely replaced and image flipped. I applaud the creativity, but I suppose it further blurred the line for me on the difference between the RAW, ETSOOI, and WWYD challenges.
@quixoticneophyte Correct me if I am wrong but I always thought that Adobe Camera Raw was a standalone product but that it comes bundled in PS, PSE and Lightroom. Most camera manufacturers provide Raw processing software of their own (Canon does, as do Sigma and Olympus, for example) and there are other bits of software capable of Raw processing (even Picasa has a certain amount of Raw capability) so Raw processing should be available to almost everyone with no problems.
@gozoinklings Hi Catherine. This past RAWCOMP said "Modifying colors, brightness, hue/sat, contrast, crop, etc are all options." But going back to the original RAWCOMP I see it stated that "Also can I point out that while the starting point is a RAW file, after that, any editing goes - photoshop, Lightroom, GIMP etc - use anything to make the pic your own." In that case then there does not seem to be any editing limits. So I guess for me I still don't see the difference between the three competitions in terms editing limits other than the starting image and the participant's creativity and editing skills. But that's quite fine, really.
@rellimdj I started the RAWCOMP series - my idea was that everyone started with one photo, and RAW offered the most scope for creativity. The biggest difference as far as I can see (correct me if I am wrong) is tat WWYD and ETSOOI allow people to choose their own photo's. The main idea of RAWCOMP was to have everyone start with the same picture, and as I said , RAW offers the most scope.
There should not be a theme - though a previous winner is allowed to say what they are looking for. However, there is no limit to what you can use for processing. It is RAWCOMP because the starting point is a RAW - after that anything goes. I was just interested in seeing what people did with the same photo, so we had a base for comparison..
@rellimdj the distinctions are indistinct - best to go with it, learn & enjoy :o) perhaps this challenge specifies editing techniques (like the ones alex is deciding between) while etsooi has a theme, like 'colour', - otherwise dont see difference between this and wwyd either
Though what @quixoticneophyte is looking for is guidance in what people would prefer as a starting photo - I think even though he uses the word theme, it isn't really theme. In the end, he will post a photo and then it is up yo others what they do with it.
@rellimdj My mistake - WWYD also starts off with the same photo that people then edit. My mistake. I might end RAWCOMP after @quixoticneophyte has done his round - it does seem to replicate WWYD.
@iwatts@gozoinklings Thanks Ian and Catherine for the input. While i understand that theme is a differentiation I don't view it as an editing restriction or differentiation. One theme might be color and another motion but in either case I could drop a fantasy spaceship into the photo if I feel I can support the theme with it and I'm still within editing restrictions because there are none. I've been looking for an avenue to polish post-processing skills without bridging into or competing with composite or illustrative imagery. My apologies to the community for any ruckus, possibly in the future there will be a post-processing challenge that limits editing to remain authentic to the original (i.e not adding any components to the image that were not in the original exposure, removing only minor spot distractions etc...)
@rellimdj it might be an idea for you to start one Joe - i am sure there are plenty of 365ers who would appreciate this kind of exercise in processing - all practice is good - i don't think it would interpreted as critical of those who like to edit more extravagantly :o)
@steampowered Yeah, indeed that software does come with most cameras and indeed some even load it on their computers, do the greater majority actually use it though? When I check EXIF data on many pictures, with an add-on for my browser, it appears not. A surprisingly large proportion of pictures are still imported through Microsofts stock offering that comes with their operating systems!
@rellimdj I'm a bit lost as to exactly what your complaint is.
I thought it may be interesting for this week to offer a chance for folks to pick a photograph that NEEDS a little post-processing to bring it to life, rather than offering a perfectly balanced picture that you can just run through a filter or add-on package to make it pretty. At the same time, offering some folks a chance to learn a new editing skill or two.
With any editing of a picture in a competition like this, there will be a range of different approaches to it. From my (apparently extreme to some) version to Franks spit and polish.
If you go back through my past entries you will see that I haven't done radical change to the imagery before. If you also go and have a look at my current imagery, you might just see why I explored in the manner I did with last weeks image.
What you wrote in your last response:
"possibly in the future there will be a post-processing challenge that limits editing to remain authentic to the original (i.e not adding any components to the image that were not in the original exposure, removing only minor spot distractions etc...)"
Is exactly what I proposed with this next challenge, when I wrote:
"2 - Cloning and bland sky correction"
@iwatts I propose you continue this competition and maybe make it that the challenge is to fix a picture that needs assistance, limiting it to in-picture necessary remedies for those that are just learning to edit. While also allowing those that want to swap out a background or such to still play and learn from doing that sort of thing though.
I feel that this format of having a different type of photographic editing challenge is different to WWYD, which is where folks don't have a clue what to do with their image in regard of finishing and are asking for others input. This is covering a different type of imagery problem that requires some editing and at the same time offers a chance for folks to learn a new skill set or two.
@quixoticneophyte My point was that without editing limitations anything goes and that has potential to discourage participation. "Cloning and bland sky correction" wouldn't limit me from extreme and extravagant editing including adding an angel choir to the sky - hey, the sky isn't bland anymore now. But if done skillfully (and I admire those that can and do - Erik Johanssen is my favorite in that regard) it changes the perceived standard of competition I feel and makes this competition not that much different then the others.
sorry if that reads a little abruptly - its just you have had a good idea alex and should go ahead with it so we can learn something - i think joe just wanted clarification
I don't have any problem with the competition run in any way people see fit, but I must admit that when it was started, I was expecting it to be a competition for what can be done in the 'digital darkroom', similar to what I think @rellimdj was imagining.
I also see the competition, as it has ended up, being very similar to ETSOOI or WWYD competitions, the only difference being that the starting point happens to be a raw file instead of a JPEG file.
What I personally envisaged when the subject was first brought up was that you would be able to load the raw file into your preferred raw processing software, be it Lightroom, ACR, software that came with your camera, etc., and you could do what you liked to it in there, but within the limitations of that one piece of software -- no plugins, no Photoshop, just pure digital darkroom edits. Ideally I'd like to see .XMP sidecar files with the exact settings used, or at the very least a list of the values and settings used, submitted along with the processed files.
For me, this would make the competition a lot less time-intensive (it's hard to spend much longer than 15 minutes doing stuff in Lightroom, whereas you can easily spend 5 hours Photoshopping a photo if you want to go really crazy), and also an excellent learning technique (users unfamiliar with raw editing would have the raw file, and the settings that someone used, and could replicate those settings and understand what each one did).
But as I say, that's just my impression of what it would be based on it being called a 'raw competition'. I have absolutely no objections to it being run in any other way, especially as I don't personally take part in the competitions, but I just thought that another perspective as to why Joe (and possibly others) find the competition isn't as they imagined it would be from the title might be useful.
@quixoticneophyte Yes, my understanding at this time is that in the RAWCOMP "anything goes" and so rather than some gradient, radiant, dodge, burn or other adjustment brushes I could just skip that and paste a brilliant sky in from some other image. All that means for me is that the three current processing challenges (WWYD, ETSOOI, and RAWCOMP) are essentially just slight variations of ETSOOI.
Please don't hold up the next iteration of the competition on my account. Catherine was correct, I was just looking for clarification and I think I have it. I look forward to viewing the participants efforts.
@abirkill Alexis, thanks for making what Joe was trying to say clear. Personally, I love the idea of just keeping the editing within RAW processors only, with no add-ons at all. It's been what I am exploring of late, having just adopted Lightroom recently.
@rellimdj Joe, apologies for not getting what you were trying to say. I didn't get that from your words, I thought you were saying that compositing was unfair. My misunderstanding is now clarified!
@iwatts What are your thoughts on keeping the competition just within RAW processors only, with no add-on packs?
I agree that the RAW comp should be just about editing the photo within the raw processor, that way exactly the same photo can look very different, but nothing added that wasn't 'there' in the first place, that would make it very distinct from WWYD. I really love looking at what people come up with, most are just trying to learn what their software can do and many who get to run the challenge wouldn't think to put direction about what they would like people to work on like you are doing Alexander, so leave that detail to the host. I think the two options you have put above could help people focus on what exactly they are trying to achieve rather than just randomly playing with sliders so I think it could be good. I don't participate in this challenge myself as I do enough raw processing of my own photos but take interest to see the very different edits that can be done.
@rellimdj I like the idea of one where the editing focus is more to enhance or 'fix' problems that reduce the compelling nature of the image. What I'm thinking is that this one would explicitly designed to enhance or correct problems than to creatively make the image into something different. Creativity being focused on improving the existing image but not turning it into more fantasy kinds of images. It still will be subjective -- it's hard to draw a line where we would be able to explicitly say what is going to far -- but the intent could be made as clear as possible. Just a thought.
@abirkill@rellimdj@quixoticneophyte@kali66 As the starter of this competition, at the time, as someone new to 365, I hadn't realised that WWYD started with the same photo, which was my main idea. The only reason I wanted it started with a RAW photo is that it gives more scope for editing.
As I have said in another post, I am happy to close this down and let peoples efforts go into WWYD, or I am happy for to let RAWPHOTO run with the limitations of all editing being in a digital darkroom - a raw processor.
If people think that then when you launch the next round, can you make that clear @quixoticneophyte. If I had realised that WWYD always started with the same photo I would never have launched RAWPHOTO, but if people think it has worth the let's run with it.
@iwatts Ian, don't stress it! Easy for me to say, I know! I'm looking at it as a refinement and evolution of this competition that I'm sure will last for an eternity.
I liked that it started in such a free spirited and friendly manner. Competitions do however need guidelines! It could pay to come up with an official wording that can just be cut and pasted to describe the terms and conditions of entry, for there to be absolutely clarity amongst all entrants.
Hope you're keeping well, Ian. I know that the last thing you need in your life is stress of this type. I am sure that there are many here that would love to help you if you need it.
@quixoticneophyte I like the idea of keeping it going but using only Raw Processing - Lightroom etc. No plug ins, no adding skies etc (which we have both done), just raw processing, or it is too like WWYD. I'll put a notice out today and we will make sure the winner of your competition posts the same rules on their's.
@iwatts The limitation of just using RAW processors differentiates it from all other challenges and is a great opportunity for newbies to join in without feeling intimidated! It also has the equalising effect across the board with no plug-ins being allowed.
Write a Reply
Sign up for a free account or Sign in to post a comment.
Tweets ahoy!
Join the Group
Pin With Me
There should not be a theme - though a previous winner is allowed to say what they are looking for. However, there is no limit to what you can use for processing. It is RAWCOMP because the starting point is a RAW - after that anything goes. I was just interested in seeing what people did with the same photo, so we had a base for comparison..
I thought it may be interesting for this week to offer a chance for folks to pick a photograph that NEEDS a little post-processing to bring it to life, rather than offering a perfectly balanced picture that you can just run through a filter or add-on package to make it pretty. At the same time, offering some folks a chance to learn a new editing skill or two.
With any editing of a picture in a competition like this, there will be a range of different approaches to it. From my (apparently extreme to some) version to Franks spit and polish.
If you go back through my past entries you will see that I haven't done radical change to the imagery before. If you also go and have a look at my current imagery, you might just see why I explored in the manner I did with last weeks image.
What you wrote in your last response:
"possibly in the future there will be a post-processing challenge that limits editing to remain authentic to the original (i.e not adding any components to the image that were not in the original exposure, removing only minor spot distractions etc...)"
Is exactly what I proposed with this next challenge, when I wrote:
"2 - Cloning and bland sky correction"
I feel that this format of having a different type of photographic editing challenge is different to WWYD, which is where folks don't have a clue what to do with their image in regard of finishing and are asking for others input. This is covering a different type of imagery problem that requires some editing and at the same time offers a chance for folks to learn a new skill set or two.
I also see the competition, as it has ended up, being very similar to ETSOOI or WWYD competitions, the only difference being that the starting point happens to be a raw file instead of a JPEG file.
What I personally envisaged when the subject was first brought up was that you would be able to load the raw file into your preferred raw processing software, be it Lightroom, ACR, software that came with your camera, etc., and you could do what you liked to it in there, but within the limitations of that one piece of software -- no plugins, no Photoshop, just pure digital darkroom edits. Ideally I'd like to see .XMP sidecar files with the exact settings used, or at the very least a list of the values and settings used, submitted along with the processed files.
For me, this would make the competition a lot less time-intensive (it's hard to spend much longer than 15 minutes doing stuff in Lightroom, whereas you can easily spend 5 hours Photoshopping a photo if you want to go really crazy), and also an excellent learning technique (users unfamiliar with raw editing would have the raw file, and the settings that someone used, and could replicate those settings and understand what each one did).
But as I say, that's just my impression of what it would be based on it being called a 'raw competition'. I have absolutely no objections to it being run in any other way, especially as I don't personally take part in the competitions, but I just thought that another perspective as to why Joe (and possibly others) find the competition isn't as they imagined it would be from the title might be useful.
Please don't hold up the next iteration of the competition on my account. Catherine was correct, I was just looking for clarification and I think I have it. I look forward to viewing the participants efforts.
@rellimdj Joe, apologies for not getting what you were trying to say. I didn't get that from your words, I thought you were saying that compositing was unfair. My misunderstanding is now clarified!
@iwatts What are your thoughts on keeping the competition just within RAW processors only, with no add-on packs?
As I have said in another post, I am happy to close this down and let peoples efforts go into WWYD, or I am happy for to let RAWPHOTO run with the limitations of all editing being in a digital darkroom - a raw processor.
If people think that then when you launch the next round, can you make that clear @quixoticneophyte. If I had realised that WWYD always started with the same photo I would never have launched RAWPHOTO, but if people think it has worth the let's run with it.
I liked that it started in such a free spirited and friendly manner. Competitions do however need guidelines! It could pay to come up with an official wording that can just be cut and pasted to describe the terms and conditions of entry, for there to be absolutely clarity amongst all entrants.
Hope you're keeping well, Ian. I know that the last thing you need in your life is stress of this type. I am sure that there are many here that would love to help you if you need it.