I've dabbled around some with B&W but I think my shots are a bit off. I read a tutorial about how to make B&W images pop and think I got one to work. I did this work in PS. Then when I saved it as a jpeg and uploaded it here, it didn't look right. There's no way to really illustrate this but in this shot in PS there is a lot more detail. I really notice it with his little eyes that show up really well in PS but look like a blob of black online.
Is this an issue of the file type? I've often thought my photos looked darker once they were online but thought it was probably just my monitor at home where I do most of my work and (cough) my work computer where uh on my break and you know lunch I log on here.
Kathryn let me call on @vignouse because he does wonderful bw and is usually willing to help others. It is getting late in France so he may not see this until tomorrow.
@aponi@joansmor Hi Kathryn, it's 'tomorrow' in France but I am indeed still up. There are a number of potential issues I think:
- In this particular image the dog is not in sharp focus which will mean that fine details such as the eyes will not be rendered clearly and the eyes are in shadow here which doesn't help.
- The file format should not make a major difference providing that the resolution is the same, Straight out of camera your photos are going to be at a fairly high resolution and that will be preserved when you process in PS. When you convert to JPEG for uploading, do you reduce the resolution and if so to what? If you save your JPEG at full resolution then 365 will reduce it on import to 1024 pixels on the longest side and that will indeed result in a loss of fine detail. I think the conversion algorithm is fairly aggressive so your pictures will never have the same definition on 365 as the originals do on your monitor - particularly if it is a high resolution one.
- Images do often look darker once uploaded; you can compensate by over-brightening the image but that's rather hit and miss. As an Ace member you have access to the PicMonkey on-line processing software, so if you think an image looks too dark once uploaded, it only takes a short while to correct it - the editing software is easy to use and quite comprehensive.
Hi Kathryn, I think a few different issues may be involved. -- As Richard @vignouse mentioned, image resizing may be a cause.
Looking at your image exif data I see you uploaded an i mage that was 5184 x 3456 pixels. The 365 website image display is maximum of 1024 pixels on the longest side, and your image has been automatically resized & quite a lot of pixels (and hence expected detail) have been affected.
IMAGE SIZE - More pixels does not automatically 'a better image make'
Pixels have no set physical size. Each pixel represents one sample of a single color. When an image is resized, the number of pixels in the image may be reduced or increased, which causes the image to be resampled, changing the file size.
To post a good looking image online, you do not need to have as many pixels as you do to print an image.
You can 'downsize' an image by
- Cropping
- Changing pixel dimensions (resize)
- Using image compression
Many monitors use a resolution of 1024x768 pixels, so images are often re-sized to a maximum of this size size for on-screen viewing. Now here is an interesting thing - view your enlarged uploaded 365 images and you will see the longest side maximum size is 1024 pixels. But....when you look at an image in your album and check the exif/ 'View Info' hyperlink on the right of the screen it has your original image info which might be something like:
Image Width: 5120 px
Image Height: 3072 px
If you check the Sizes/View All data, the large size (ie the one used as enlarged ), you will find it has a maximum size (using the same aspect ratio) of only 1024 x 614! A whole lotta pixels have been spirited away by the 365 Magic Monkeys to save space on the 365 server. (image compression) @frankhymus found when he uploaded a hefty 13257 by 2935 pixel image (9.98 MB) that the maximum enlarged image was a mere 1024 x 226, but more importantly, he was unhappy with the loss of contrast and colour depth. Instead of letting the Magic Monkeys have total control over how the image would be compressed / resampled for web viewing, Frank decided to resize the image to 2,000 pixels on the longest side which gave him a 2000 by 443 pixel image of (709 kb)
Look for Image size/Resample/resize comand in your program. The software uses an algorithm to select which pixels are thrown away. It is suggested that a good resampler algorithm (if you have an option in your editing software) to use is bicubic as it minimizes the jaggedness that can results from resizing expanded, irregular, or complex images. You can then apply any final sharpening, and upload to 365.
In resizing/resasmpling to decrease image dimensions, the pixel colors are averaged together. For example, in decreaseing an image from 100 × 100 pixels to 50 × 50 pixels, the final image contains 2,500 pixels, which is one-quarter of the pixels used to represent the original image.
In January 2013 @abirkill provided Ross with some feedback and it seems that some finetuning of the default 365 upload process & algorithm may have occured.
how to resize in photoshop http://www.photoshopessentials.com/photo-editing/crop-images/ what does resampled mean? Lightroom resize Do you need to save as 72 ppi?
NOTE: you might not want to resize and overwrite your original file! After resizing an image, use 'Save As' so you don't overwrite your original high resolution file.
HISTOGRAM & MONITOR
looking at the histogram in PS there is a strong leaning to the left - a LOT of dark pixels are 'clipped' to the left & so details tend to merge into inky blackness as you mention. Your monitor may be set with a gamma setting that does 'view' the darkness better than on other displays. I edit darkness & lightness using the histogram & levels adjustment rather than just what looks good on the monitor to my eye, because I have to work on a lap top screen that is absolutely terrible!! In your image of the dog, you want a spread of colour tone to capture the shape of the eyes & the many textures of the fur & trees.
http://www.photoshopessentials.com/photo-editing/histogram/
Histograms are a technical concept, & you might think it will take a long while to make sense, but I think it is one of the really key learnings in not just editing, but understanding digital photography in general. COLOUR SPACE
Even though it is a monochrome image, the data your 365 image says it is a RGB file - check what colour space you are viewing/ exporting to in PS. Search the 365 discussions for plenty of threads on 365 & the web use of RGB. If you work in another colour space in PS, (eg Adobe RGB) it can look quite different on the web. ( this is possibly the least likely to cause the change in this instance)
http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1660185
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- In this particular image the dog is not in sharp focus which will mean that fine details such as the eyes will not be rendered clearly and the eyes are in shadow here which doesn't help.
- The file format should not make a major difference providing that the resolution is the same, Straight out of camera your photos are going to be at a fairly high resolution and that will be preserved when you process in PS. When you convert to JPEG for uploading, do you reduce the resolution and if so to what? If you save your JPEG at full resolution then 365 will reduce it on import to 1024 pixels on the longest side and that will indeed result in a loss of fine detail. I think the conversion algorithm is fairly aggressive so your pictures will never have the same definition on 365 as the originals do on your monitor - particularly if it is a high resolution one.
- Images do often look darker once uploaded; you can compensate by over-brightening the image but that's rather hit and miss. As an Ace member you have access to the PicMonkey on-line processing software, so if you think an image looks too dark once uploaded, it only takes a short while to correct it - the editing software is easy to use and quite comprehensive.
I hope this helps Kathryn.
Looking at your image exif data I see you uploaded an i mage that was 5184 x 3456 pixels. The 365 website image display is maximum of 1024 pixels on the longest side, and your image has been automatically resized & quite a lot of pixels (and hence expected detail) have been affected.
IMAGE SIZE - More pixels does not automatically 'a better image make'
Pixels have no set physical size. Each pixel represents one sample of a single color. When an image is resized, the number of pixels in the image may be reduced or increased, which causes the image to be resampled, changing the file size.
To post a good looking image online, you do not need to have as many pixels as you do to print an image.
You can 'downsize' an image by
- Cropping
- Changing pixel dimensions (resize)
- Using image compression
Many monitors use a resolution of 1024x768 pixels, so images are often re-sized to a maximum of this size size for on-screen viewing. Now here is an interesting thing - view your enlarged uploaded 365 images and you will see the longest side maximum size is 1024 pixels. But....when you look at an image in your album and check the exif/ 'View Info' hyperlink on the right of the screen it has your original image info which might be something like:
Image Width: 5120 px
Image Height: 3072 px
If you check the Sizes/View All data, the large size (ie the one used as enlarged ), you will find it has a maximum size (using the same aspect ratio) of only 1024 x 614! A whole lotta pixels have been spirited away by the 365 Magic Monkeys to save space on the 365 server. (image compression)
@frankhymus found when he uploaded a hefty 13257 by 2935 pixel image (9.98 MB) that the maximum enlarged image was a mere 1024 x 226, but more importantly, he was unhappy with the loss of contrast and colour depth. Instead of letting the Magic Monkeys have total control over how the image would be compressed / resampled for web viewing, Frank decided to resize the image to 2,000 pixels on the longest side which gave him a 2000 by 443 pixel image of (709 kb)
Look for Image size/Resample/resize comand in your program. The software uses an algorithm to select which pixels are thrown away. It is suggested that a good resampler algorithm (if you have an option in your editing software) to use is bicubic as it minimizes the jaggedness that can results from resizing expanded, irregular, or complex images. You can then apply any final sharpening, and upload to 365.
In resizing/resasmpling to decrease image dimensions, the pixel colors are averaged together. For example, in decreaseing an image from 100 × 100 pixels to 50 × 50 pixels, the final image contains 2,500 pixels, which is one-quarter of the pixels used to represent the original image.
In January 2013 @abirkill provided Ross with some feedback and it seems that some finetuning of the default 365 upload process & algorithm may have occured.
how to resize in photoshop http://www.photoshopessentials.com/photo-editing/crop-images/
what does resampled mean?
Lightroom resize
Do you need to save as 72 ppi?
NOTE: you might not want to resize and overwrite your original file! After resizing an image, use 'Save As' so you don't overwrite your original high resolution file.
HISTOGRAM & MONITOR
looking at the histogram in PS there is a strong leaning to the left - a LOT of dark pixels are 'clipped' to the left & so details tend to merge into inky blackness as you mention. Your monitor may be set with a gamma setting that does 'view' the darkness better than on other displays. I edit darkness & lightness using the histogram & levels adjustment rather than just what looks good on the monitor to my eye, because I have to work on a lap top screen that is absolutely terrible!! In your image of the dog, you want a spread of colour tone to capture the shape of the eyes & the many textures of the fur & trees.
http://www.photoshopessentials.com/photo-editing/histogram/
Histograms are a technical concept, & you might think it will take a long while to make sense, but I think it is one of the really key learnings in not just editing, but understanding digital photography in general.
COLOUR SPACE
Even though it is a monochrome image, the data your 365 image says it is a RGB file - check what colour space you are viewing/ exporting to in PS. Search the 365 discussions for plenty of threads on 365 & the web use of RGB. If you work in another colour space in PS, (eg Adobe RGB) it can look quite different on the web. ( this is possibly the least likely to cause the change in this instance)
http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1660185