I did do a search here on wide angle lens, and was looking at the Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM Autofocus Lens but also noticed some mentioned the Sigma. I have an older Canon Rebel XS and just was hoping to get a couple thoughts from you guys.
Just wanted a quick opinion on the Sigma, never used one. The few lenses I have are Canon. Maybe the Canon is worth the extra $$$?
I have the canon 10-22 and speak very highly of it. I don't use it much any more because of a new camera and using the 17-40. This new lens is a L series and 50% more expensive and to be honest not that much better. Put it this way someone recent offered to buy the 10-22 at really good price 80% of what I paid.... I laughed at them and said no way. if you know how to search for lens on Flickr you'll see some awesome photos. http://www.flickr.com/groups/efs1022/
I have the Canon 10-22 and love that loens. I did by it used off Ebay for a descent price. Here is my shot for today with that lens. http://365project.org/hollandcrew/365
@scooter yep they are ones. They'll both work on your Rebel...
but two big differences
1) if your considering upgrading to a full frame camera any time soon (canon 6d, 5d or 1d [ef mounts]) ; the 10-22 will NOT work on these camera's - the 10-22 is specifically designed for EFS mount cameras like the rebel. (17-40 works on everything)
2) the 10-22 lens on a crop sensor camera like the rebel is EXACTLY the same as the 17-40 on a full frame...so on a rebel the 7mm difference between 10-22 and 17-40 is HUGE... 7mm of extra wide is alot of extra 'grand canyon'
In simple terms if your upgrading to a full frame, you have some thinking to do... if not. Your decision is between the sigma and the 10-22 canon. I've previously owned and loved sigma lens, can't imagine it been a bad lens even although I know nothing about the lens you've mentioned.
another tip... at 10mm there is distortion - all wide angles do, practice and get familiar with it before travelling. Learning new gear on a trip is never a good thing - learnt that from experience :-(
@crankadventure Wow thank you for all the info. I will definitely think. I do not think I will be upgrading the camera, but you never know. I just like to play and take photos, fun for me, nothing more.
Never been to the Grand Canyon but my sister lives out there, I am sure I will go back but great advice on learning before I leave!!
I have and love the Canon 10-22-- it's a good wide angle lens-I just used it today - but lil' heavy 'tho for daily walk-around used:)!
see attached photo:)
The Canon is better in lots of little ways -- but they're all very little ways. Personally, I bought the Sigma, as the advantages of the Canon were not great enough for me to justify the higher price.
Here are some of my many photos taken with the Sigma. I'd have no hesitation in recommending it.
You will certainly not be disappointed with the Canon, but it may not be worth the extra, depending on how tight your budget is.
@abirkill Oh wow!! What gorgeous shots and thank you for your input!!! I just wish I lived somewhere with these gorgeous views!!! I cannot wait to go out West to see my sister, but cannot wait to take photos out here too!!!
Tough decision, but my budget allows for the Canon if I want.
I also own the Sigma for the same reason Alexis stated. The savings allowed me to buy a couple of filters which I use very often and are much more valuable to me than the subtle differences in favor of the Canon lens.
I have the constant aperture f/3.5 of the Sigma 10-20, in the APS-C Nikon mount, so I can't compare with the Canon, but it beats any super wide angle DX zoom from Nikon. The autofocus is tack on and fast except in low contrast situations on my Nikon 5100 (and now 7100). Personally I also found it more versatile than the Tokina 11-16, another popular APS-C wide angle zoom. And cheaper.
It works magnificently for me in many situations other than the classic wide angle landscape, gobbling up everything beautifully into the frame. Here are just three examples.
I buy all my photo gear second hand. I first bought the Sigma lens. It had the problem mentioned in the other thread. It was sharp on the right side, but got more and more unsharp towards the left. The far left of the lens was so unsharp it was unusable. I put up the extra cash and bought the Canon instead. It is a much better lens in every way.
The Sigma is fine lens if you get a good sample, but the thing with Sigma is that you need to test the sample you want to buy beforehand. You need to examine the results at 100%. Even my Sigma 10-20mm looks OK when you resize a shot for web use. Buying a new Sigma lens from a store is fine because you can always go back if there is something wrong with it. Buying a secondhand Sigma is a gamble.
@helstor All lenses have the possibility of suffering from decentering issues (where an internal lens element is misaligned, causing sharpness to vary across the frame). Even the most expensive Canon L series lenses can surprisingly often have unacceptably uneven sharpness across the frame, directly from the factory.
Here's an example showing that out of 22 copies of Canon's 24-70mm f/4L IS lens (one of Canon's newest lenses, costing $1300), 2 were decentered straight from the box:
That's a failure rate of nearly 10% on a brand new high-end Canon lens using the latest manufacturing, calibration and QC methods.
Decentering issues will also very commonly be caused by impact damage to a lens, such as it being dropped, even onto a soft surface like carpet or grass that leave no external mark on the lens. Buying a second-hand lens without seeing test shots or testing it yourself is *always* a gamble if you care about sharpness, regardless of the make or model, unless the lens is in warranty, or you get it cheaply enough that you can afford to send it in for calibration (usually $100-$150) and still come out ahead.
Certain lenses are more prone to impact-related decentering issues than others. Canon's 24-70mm f/2.8L (version 1) lens is known to decenter very easily with even relatively mild impacts, due to one of the elements being insufficiently secured.
Sigma were known to have decentering issues with very early copies of this lens (when it was released in 2005/2006) but these are generally believed to have been long since resolved. (Although there will still be copy-to-copy variation and bad copies around, even brand new -- as there will be with the Canon lens)
There's also evidence to suggest that Canon may have improved some reliability issues with the 10-22mm lens over time, as seen in the decreased repair rate of this lens by LensRentals (bottom of the post):
This might suggest that a second-hand (likely older) Canon 10-22mm is more prone to failure than a new lens. But the fact is it's very hard for even a company like LensRentals who see huge numbers of these lenses to draw any conclusions. There are good lenses and bad lenses, new and second-hand -- if you need a good one, you need to test it. Basing the quality control of a lens or lens manufacturer, on a single second-hand unit that could have been mistreated without your knowledge is not representative.
@abirkill Alexis, I agree with everything you say. You should always test a secondhand lens before buying it. In general Sigma's quality control seems to be less strict than Canon/Nikon and build quality is often lower (It's natural, they have to cut corners somewhere to be able to sell their lenses at the prices they do). My point is: the risk of getting an inferior lens is higher when you buy a Sigma than when you buy a Canon/Nikon (perhaps Canon/Nikon owners treat their brand lenses better too ;-)
Getting the Sigma fixed/adjusted in Norway is not an option, It will probably cost more than buying a new one ( I recently sent my SX240 to get a lens problem fixed. The repair centre wanted $400 to change the lens/zoom assembly on a camera that at that time would cost me $220 to buy brand new!).
Thank you all SO very much, and thank you for your time in responding!! Excellent information here!! A lot to think about and consider, but think I am going to go the Canon route.
@scooter If you're in the US, Canon's summer lens rebates ended on July 6th, which included a $100 instant rebate on the Canon 10-22mm. It's likely that they will start a new list of rebates shortly, which will probably include the 10-22mm, but there's no guarantee :( http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=7279
@scooter Excellent! I'm sure you'll love it! Looking forward to seeing the pics.
Assuming you did buy it from B&H, they have a (largely unpublicised) price protection policy (or at least, guideline) for 30 days, so if Canon do introduce a new line of rebates and you find the price on B&H has dropped in a couple of weeks, they will refund the difference if you ask. It took about 2 minutes on their 'online chat' system when I did this a few months ago. Just another reason they're an awesome place to buy from!
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http://365project.org/discuss/general/1132/canon-ef-s-10-22mm-f-35-45-usm-lens
http://www.flickr.com/groups/efs1022/
@hollandcrew Thank you so much!!! Going to look are your photo now! :)
I just really want a wide angle lens, think that would complete my lens set...well sort of! ha ha ha
but two big differences
1) if your considering upgrading to a full frame camera any time soon (canon 6d, 5d or 1d [ef mounts]) ; the 10-22 will NOT work on these camera's - the 10-22 is specifically designed for EFS mount cameras like the rebel. (17-40 works on everything)
2) the 10-22 lens on a crop sensor camera like the rebel is EXACTLY the same as the 17-40 on a full frame...so on a rebel the 7mm difference between 10-22 and 17-40 is HUGE... 7mm of extra wide is alot of extra 'grand canyon'
In simple terms if your upgrading to a full frame, you have some thinking to do... if not. Your decision is between the sigma and the 10-22 canon. I've previously owned and loved sigma lens, can't imagine it been a bad lens even although I know nothing about the lens you've mentioned.
another tip... at 10mm there is distortion - all wide angles do, practice and get familiar with it before travelling. Learning new gear on a trip is never a good thing - learnt that from experience :-(
Never been to the Grand Canyon but my sister lives out there, I am sure I will go back but great advice on learning before I leave!!
Now I have more thinking!!! :D
see attached photo:)
@jodimuli Don't mind weight, great exercise!!! :)
Here are some of my many photos taken with the Sigma. I'd have no hesitation in recommending it.
You will certainly not be disappointed with the Canon, but it may not be worth the extra, depending on how tight your budget is.
Tough decision, but my budget allows for the Canon if I want.
@scooter- Have fun & enjoy :)
It works magnificently for me in many situations other than the classic wide angle landscape, gobbling up everything beautifully into the frame. Here are just three examples.
The Sigma is fine lens if you get a good sample, but the thing with Sigma is that you need to test the sample you want to buy beforehand. You need to examine the results at 100%. Even my Sigma 10-20mm looks OK when you resize a shot for web use. Buying a new Sigma lens from a store is fine because you can always go back if there is something wrong with it. Buying a secondhand Sigma is a gamble.
Canon samples:
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/canon/ef_s_10-22_35-45_usm
Sigma samples
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/10_20_4_56_ex_dc_hsm
Here's an example showing that out of 22 copies of Canon's 24-70mm f/4L IS lens (one of Canon's newest lenses, costing $1300), 2 were decentered straight from the box:
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/01/canon-24-70-f4-is-resolution-tests
That's a failure rate of nearly 10% on a brand new high-end Canon lens using the latest manufacturing, calibration and QC methods.
Decentering issues will also very commonly be caused by impact damage to a lens, such as it being dropped, even onto a soft surface like carpet or grass that leave no external mark on the lens. Buying a second-hand lens without seeing test shots or testing it yourself is *always* a gamble if you care about sharpness, regardless of the make or model, unless the lens is in warranty, or you get it cheaply enough that you can afford to send it in for calibration (usually $100-$150) and still come out ahead.
Certain lenses are more prone to impact-related decentering issues than others. Canon's 24-70mm f/2.8L (version 1) lens is known to decenter very easily with even relatively mild impacts, due to one of the elements being insufficiently secured.
Sigma were known to have decentering issues with very early copies of this lens (when it was released in 2005/2006) but these are generally believed to have been long since resolved. (Although there will still be copy-to-copy variation and bad copies around, even brand new -- as there will be with the Canon lens)
There's also evidence to suggest that Canon may have improved some reliability issues with the 10-22mm lens over time, as seen in the decreased repair rate of this lens by LensRentals (bottom of the post):
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2010/09/lens-repair-data-4-0
This might suggest that a second-hand (likely older) Canon 10-22mm is more prone to failure than a new lens. But the fact is it's very hard for even a company like LensRentals who see huge numbers of these lenses to draw any conclusions. There are good lenses and bad lenses, new and second-hand -- if you need a good one, you need to test it. Basing the quality control of a lens or lens manufacturer, on a single second-hand unit that could have been mistreated without your knowledge is not representative.
Getting the Sigma fixed/adjusted in Norway is not an option, It will probably cost more than buying a new one ( I recently sent my SX240 to get a lens problem fixed. The repair centre wanted $400 to change the lens/zoom assembly on a camera that at that time would cost me $220 to buy brand new!).
PS. I love my Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=7279
Assuming you did buy it from B&H, they have a (largely unpublicised) price protection policy (or at least, guideline) for 30 days, so if Canon do introduce a new line of rebates and you find the price on B&H has dropped in a couple of weeks, they will refund the difference if you ask. It took about 2 minutes on their 'online chat' system when I did this a few months ago. Just another reason they're an awesome place to buy from!