Recently, I was added to a photography group on Facebook, by a friend and professional photographer. I have uploaded several photos on this group page for advice on areas I need to work on before I get my business license and start charging for my photography, as it is starting to take away a lot of time for my family, with nothing in return. Now, I know I am still fairly new at photography, and I still have a LOT to learn. One of the great things I LOVE so much about photography is, it's always changing. There is always something new, whether it be in the form of an action/preset, technique, posing, natural light vs flashes. What I don't understand, is why there are those photographers out there who think They. Are. It. No one else exists in the photography business but them. You ask for critiquing, you either get a big fat nothing, or opinions who think your work is awful (because they told you so), those who think, "you shouldn't even be in the photography business because you have no idea what you are doing, how to pose, and how to edit". DIDN'T WE ALL START SOMEWHERE? I had to ask the one young lady this, because she was just down right mean in her comment. Her response, "I'm not going to answer that, as it is none of your business.". To be the adult and the "professional" person, I let it go with her. REALLY, why is it so hard for some people, especially those who live thousands of miles away, think you are a threat to them, and cannot help someone be better at something they are passionate about? Another photographer came on and commented on her comment, telling her she was being very unprofessional in how she handled the situation and that I was simply asking for advice on a photograph. Thank you!!
My question again, DIDN'T we all start somewhere? Whether or not we are looking at doing photography as a hobby, which is where my desire first started, or as a professional, didn't we all start somewhere?
I apologize for letting it all go on here, but I didn't know where else to turn, where there are so many photographers, whether they are professionals or hobbyists. But, thank you for listening to my rant.
(If you are curious about which photo I was asking about, it's my last post in my 365, titled "My Little Miss".
I'm just a hobbyist myself, but one who would like to achieve 'professional' results. I'm sorry you had to endure catty comments by someone who considers herself a professional. There are all kinds out there. Try to shake it off and focus on the constructive comments you were looking for. That's one of the things I like about 365, everyone is so kind and helpful here. I hope you don't let that incident spoil your evening or douse your enthusiasm.
Hi Heather, I'm a student and possibly want to become professional if I ever get good enough. I hope you aren't upset at my comment:O I am off to TAFE so don't have much time. But I've read lots of blogs because I want to learn and I've seen catty comments but for the most part really good helpful comments. This competitiveness is not only amongst professionals it's amongst students too I've found. Someone suggested to me that it's a jealousy thing. I don't know for certain but maybe it is. I guess I could be so easily jealous of many on here whose photos I just look at in awe and think 'I want to do that'. But rather than being jealous for me I will strive to get there. But I truly believe it's all about 'The Climb'. (thanks Hannah Montana lol) =)
I'm so sorry you were really treated badly when you are only trying to learn. I've never really given this much thought as I am strictly taking photos for personal enjoyment. I assumed that most professional went to school and got an art degree or some dual degree in business and art/photography.
Sounds like you need a mentor. Perhaps there is a studio in your area that would hire to assist on jobs? Probably wouldn't pay much but at least you'd be learning?
I'm so sorry you had to endure one awful person. But don't lose hope. This site has a lot more credible and helpful people. Tammy is right, just focus on the constructive comments of people. Don't let one bad apple ruin your day. You take lovely pics.
If you just look at the other discussions, or at the critique section, there's a lot of wonderful creatures that didn't hesitate to help out. Just ignore that prima donna. Her unprofessional attitude will catch up with her sometime.
Well...I'm a professional. Please don't shoot me yet! Let me just say that even as a professional I am quite often snubbed by fellow photographers. A few weeks ago I actually had someone approach me while shooting photos of the construction of the SkyWheel Myrtle Beach, the tallest obeservation/Ferris Wheel in the United States, and asked me what equipment I was using.
I told him, "Nikon D300 with my Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 lens". His response, "Shooting with a good body but still a cheap lens? Might as well just throw a coffee filter on your camera and shoot through that." Of course, he had a D700 and Nikon 24-70mm f/2.8 lens. But his photos didn't appear in three different media outlets the next day, either, so he was probably just jealous.
As a professional photographer, I can tell you this: I help anyone. That's why I actually joined this site, I wanted to help hobbyists, students, amateurs, moms-with-cameras, and anyone else. I give feedback both positive and negative (when I have given positive feedback to people I follow, they KNOW what that means and they feel great).
I was once a lowly student photographer myself. That was just two years ago. I have come a long way fast, so I guess that's why I still remember where I came from. I am ALWAYS eager to help.
I don't care if you are my next door neighbor and competitive as hell, cause let's face it: winning the Daytona 500 wouldn't mean anything if I was the only car on the track.
I have had a lot of bad response on several photographers sites. They talk smack about all of us newbies. I wouldn't take it personally. Take everything with a grain of salt. Some of them really do want you to succeed and others are just nasty. I found a "great" site that I paid for that was supposedly "not" one of these places and I still find the rude nose in the air attitude towards newbies. I just ignore them. :)
@jasonbarnette "I don't care if you are my next door neighbor and competitive as hell, cause let's face it: winning the Daytona 500 wouldn't mean anything if I was the only car on the track."
so well put :-) I wish all photographers had that attitude
My worse encounter with a professional was when I had one come up to me *after* I had finished shooting a soccer game and cussed me out for being in his sight line.
It's not like I had moved into that position, as I was there first. Second, if I am in your way, then ask me politely and I would be more than glad to do so. Why bother cussing me out after its too late to do anything about it??
I am only a hobbyists. I started by taking pictures of my kids and that was really my only reason for owning a camera. Then I started to get creative. After joining 365 Project my hobby became a passion! I am by no means a great photographer but I love taking pictures and learning about my camera and other photographers. That being said, I had the pleasure of looking through your photos and I thought they were great! "My Little Miss" is adorable! The only reason I could see someone saying those things to you is because they are jealous or just really big headed and naturally mean.
Photography has changed a ton after being relatively stagnant for a very long time. It's much easier to jump right in and start taking very high quality images, and that's led to a lot of competition. Being a successful professional photographer right now is about marketing and selling yourself in addition to taking great shots. It is definitely helping to breed this elitism, and some people who have been around for awhile look down on all the newer photogs, since they often lack the "training" and "darkroom skills". That is not always the case, but some professionals have a very us vs them mentality as a protective barrier, as this is their job and their livelihood.
In the end, all anyone has is an opinion. There is always room to grow, but your job is to make your clients happy, not some egomaniac on the internet. For every jerk, there will be someone more than willing to help, it's just a matter of finding them.
UGH, that irks me so very much when I see it - and I see it here too but I usually just keep quiet. I say you ignore it or better yet, use it as motivation to be better, if that makes sense? I'm not even slightly competitive but if someone ever says anything like that to me, I do whatever it is they think I can't to shut them up. I'm really sorry you had to put up with that and it's definitely insecurity on her part or she would be more than willing to help and encourage you. Just keep your chin up :)
Photography is art and some people will love your portfolio and some not. Just consider their criticism as constructive, probably the truth is somewhere in between.It will take years to become better and better. Just be patient. Read, read, read, observe, take notes, try, follow the professionals and continue to observe and try, try, try... Now almost everybody has a DSLR, so your goal is to improve constantly. You can be a professional, why not? They started like you. With a DSLR... and trying :)
(I'm a hobbyist and always will be. )
Just want to add - I take the photos of my kid and family (I don't need photo sessions of them). But for important ceremonies like her baptism last year - I chose a professional (he did ~200 photos for 4 hours of every detail, every guest, every moment, all the photos were perfect, he shooted in a cathedral - this is not easy at all). When I like a photo or picture (while travelling) - I buy it.
I had a horrible experience like this but in person. A friend asked me to take photos at her engagement party, now Im a hobbist and currently studying Digital Photography with an aim to go professional.
Anyway long story short, I was setting up a group shot (of 20 people) and a guy from the photo removed himself from the photo so that he could take one on his camera which of course was flasher than my D90 Nikon, anyway I politely asked him if he wanted to be in the group photo and he declined saying that he wanted a professional photo of his extended family - blew my confidence for the rest of the night. Arsehole! Then continued to take photos from over my shoulder as I set up family photos etc. Ahhhh the nerve of some people.
@vness I would have been so tempted to tell that guy "great! I'll be more than happy to sell you one of mine. Now, get back with the group or get out of my way".
I can totally believe this...I am in newspapers so we deal with lots of "artists" ... notice the quotes :) I had a professional headshot done--paid for it--and the guy who does our website wouldn't even post it on the site b/c he hated it. He's a photographer too..."you don't put someone with dark hair on a dark background...you look bald" -- no I really don't. I have tons of hair...see photo to the left :) I said...just put it on there damn it!
I would have let that comment go too...or said "wow thanks very helpful" ... sarcasm would shine through :)
This site is full of helpful "professionals" and I love it. I have learned so much...and tried different things (like a rain puddle!)...I love this site!!!!!!!!!
I haven't read any of the replies before mine, so I apologize for any duplication. I looked at your photo, and I like it, but it isn't one you would see hanging in a studio. The girl who replied to you was unprofessional, but perhaps your friend did you a disservice by adding you to a group of profesionals, some of whom don't seem to want to provide critique or insight. The suggestion I would make is to take the personal aspect out of it. Your photo is of your own daughter (who is totally adorable) which means your see the photo very differently than anyone else. I don't think that you think it is better than it really is, you can see a person with all her personality and quirkyness, everyone else just sees a little kid by a fence. That squint she's sporting is a little face you see everyday, but to a pro it may look less endearing and more like a kid made to face the sun.
Do you have occasion to photograph other children for practice? There's nothing wrong with charging a small sitting fee for other people to build our portfolio! That's just my 2 cents, between amateurs. :)
@mikemehiel Actually, it's not the competition that has hurt professional photographers and the industry, it's the fact a vast majority of people who jump right in and start shooting high quality photos are giving them away for free. Ask anyone on this site: I encourage the competition and help in any way I can, but I explode when I hear someone is doing a wedding "for a friend for free." People giving away free photos has cost me a LOT of clients in the last two years. It's like you said, some pros make it an "us vs. them" mentality but for the reason you stated: this is my livelihood, my career, it's how I pay my bills. When people give high quality photos away for free...I'm losing money. Competition is one thing, but this is another.
@tkallen And yeah..I'm full of great one-liners. Too bad I don't have this much success with my lines at the bar :/ haha
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Sounds like you need a mentor. Perhaps there is a studio in your area that would hire to assist on jobs? Probably wouldn't pay much but at least you'd be learning?
And I liked your photo so I'm not much help. :)
I'm so sorry you had to endure one awful person. But don't lose hope. This site has a lot more credible and helpful people. Tammy is right, just focus on the constructive comments of people. Don't let one bad apple ruin your day. You take lovely pics.
If you just look at the other discussions, or at the critique section, there's a lot of wonderful creatures that didn't hesitate to help out. Just ignore that prima donna. Her unprofessional attitude will catch up with her sometime.
I told him, "Nikon D300 with my Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 lens". His response, "Shooting with a good body but still a cheap lens? Might as well just throw a coffee filter on your camera and shoot through that." Of course, he had a D700 and Nikon 24-70mm f/2.8 lens. But his photos didn't appear in three different media outlets the next day, either, so he was probably just jealous.
As a professional photographer, I can tell you this: I help anyone. That's why I actually joined this site, I wanted to help hobbyists, students, amateurs, moms-with-cameras, and anyone else. I give feedback both positive and negative (when I have given positive feedback to people I follow, they KNOW what that means and they feel great).
I was once a lowly student photographer myself. That was just two years ago. I have come a long way fast, so I guess that's why I still remember where I came from. I am ALWAYS eager to help.
I don't care if you are my next door neighbor and competitive as hell, cause let's face it: winning the Daytona 500 wouldn't mean anything if I was the only car on the track.
so well put :-) I wish all photographers had that attitude
My worse encounter with a professional was when I had one come up to me *after* I had finished shooting a soccer game and cussed me out for being in his sight line.
It's not like I had moved into that position, as I was there first. Second, if I am in your way, then ask me politely and I would be more than glad to do so. Why bother cussing me out after its too late to do anything about it??
In the end, all anyone has is an opinion. There is always room to grow, but your job is to make your clients happy, not some egomaniac on the internet. For every jerk, there will be someone more than willing to help, it's just a matter of finding them.
Best of luck!
(I'm a hobbyist and always will be. )
Just want to add - I take the photos of my kid and family (I don't need photo sessions of them). But for important ceremonies like her baptism last year - I chose a professional (he did ~200 photos for 4 hours of every detail, every guest, every moment, all the photos were perfect, he shooted in a cathedral - this is not easy at all). When I like a photo or picture (while travelling) - I buy it.
Anyway long story short, I was setting up a group shot (of 20 people) and a guy from the photo removed himself from the photo so that he could take one on his camera which of course was flasher than my D90 Nikon, anyway I politely asked him if he wanted to be in the group photo and he declined saying that he wanted a professional photo of his extended family - blew my confidence for the rest of the night. Arsehole! Then continued to take photos from over my shoulder as I set up family photos etc. Ahhhh the nerve of some people.
I would have let that comment go too...or said "wow thanks very helpful" ... sarcasm would shine through :)
This site is full of helpful "professionals" and I love it. I have learned so much...and tried different things (like a rain puddle!)...I love this site!!!!!!!!!
Do you have occasion to photograph other children for practice? There's nothing wrong with charging a small sitting fee for other people to build our portfolio! That's just my 2 cents, between amateurs. :)
@tkallen And yeah..I'm full of great one-liners. Too bad I don't have this much success with my lines at the bar :/ haha