What is this?
I don't mean anything, or to say that the images aren't well taken or anything, but I am a Muslim, and what exactly are those people doing? That is not mentioned in the Quran, that is not mentioned ANYWHERE. This has nothing to do with Islam, so what the hell is wrong with them, hurting themselves like that? I am disgusted and shocked that they think that they are Muslims. Whatever happened to knowing about a religion before following it.. and practicing such disturbing, disgusting, appalling things that are inhumane. Unbelievable.
@daliadestructo The comments at the bottom seem to suggest its a cult not Muslim men. I thought harming oneself was forbidden in the Quran so didn't really take much notice that they were saying it was a Muslim ritual.
Whatever the ritual is for, It saddens me that there are such young boys doing it : (
I suppose there is the debate that its good to document the good, bad and ugly through photography.
@araminta Yes, it's kind of like, an imaginary part of Islam that was invented by blood-thirsty people.
I know, it saddens me that their parents have brainwashed them in such a way. I don't know how a father would have the guts to see his son do that to himself.
@daliadestructo@araminta I have seen these sort of scenes since my childhood during the procession at Muharram in India. It is not the cult but Shia Muslims. Each participant hurts himself shouting in Hindi Language here in India "Hai Huessein Hum Na Rahe"as to why they were not there at that time. I have some good friends whom I have always asked but never got the answer why this is done.
@pankaj Thanks for the clarification, its very interesting that you can have such a strong faith to do such a thing. I suppose many religions have a history of flagellation, just most of them don't do it any longer.
I certainly appreciate the photography, if not the ritual . . . disturbing images are often powerful and evocative, and these senseless acts are no exception . . . but, yes, it does sadden me to see young men and boys indoctrinated into such a ritual. Thanks for posting . . .
I am so glad that my Savior Jesus Christ does not require that sort of thing. He only ask a broken and contrite heart, and lets His shed blood atone for our sins.
@revjoel which is just as disgusting, if you view it from an unbiased standpoint.
Now, let's not have this break into another "my religion's better than your religion" thing, shall we?
Those are some pretty hardcore photos. It's a shame those guys have been led to believe that cutting themselves to shit with knives is somehow a good thing, but hey, whatever gets you through the day, right?
@revjoel - nor does Allah. See the comments above. And there are groups within Christianity that also encourage this sort of behaviour. See the Easter penitents in Spain, for a start.
@daliadestructo
I don't think the photographer see all the muslims like that. Not at all. And I dont think his ibjective was to say something wrong about this religion.
But there are always some extremes cases (in all kind of religions), he wanted just to show these shoking pictures.
@wormentude Good on you for bringing balance and I understand that historically Christians undertook similar acts too and that this behaviour figures in particularly devoted followers of religion.
This is a multicultural site, no? I don't think this represents all Muslims. I am intrigued as to why they would want to do this and it makes me want to find out more. Bit disturbed that kids are involved as they are not so free to make a choice, but most are consenting adults. It's a show of their love of their God and religion and blood flows easily with the smallest cut from the head and back. I'm not a believer in any one God so I don't understand this extremity, but I would love to know more before judging. Can anyone enlighten us.
@lalola616 I am sorry if my comment was unclear. I didn't mean to offend the photographer at all. I think his photography is quite nice, and that he's pretty good with taking pictures of exactly what's happening.
However, I was just expressing my frustration.
@revjoel@eyebrows Let's not start a religion debate, shall we? It will never end. I completely respect ALL religions, I respect people with no religions, I respect people who worship cows, I respect everyone.
I don't care which religion is better, I just care that the religion that *I* chose, that was NOT put down my throat when I was young is the one that makes me most comfortable, is the one that makes sense. As long as everyone feels that about their religion, they should be okay. And if they find that having no religion suits them most, then it's their choice. No religion is better than the other, and every religion has it's advantages and disadvantages.
Also, this is a minority of Muslims, very very minor people. They are called the "Shi'ite". They don't believe in "Allah" as their main God, and don't think Muhammed was worth being a prophet. They hurt themselves because they wanted to live with him.. or something like that. I don't really care because they have beliefs that don't even make sense (I've read about every religion that exists before choosing being a Muslim) . @miranda
@daliadestructo Am curious about something: does the fact that other people read about other religions, and decide that different ones make sense to them, not bother you at all? Do you reconcile that at all or just... not? Not looking for a debate, as already stated, but am actually curious about this in your particular case :)
@daliadestructo Hey, Dalia, great sentiments. I was a little bit concerned that putting something like this up and then folk getting into which religion was better than another could put Muslims here on the defence, which I wouldn't want. that's why I said 'I don't think this represents all Muslims'. That's why I thought it was helpful that Rachael reminded us that such behaviour isn't just confined to Muslims (minority or otherwise)... lots of religions have such behaviour. There's some great pictures here aren't there... I hate the repression it reflects but loved the one of the woman in the blue burka, and the guy carving out religious messages... the rest were pretty interesting too, eh> ;-)
@eyebrows Of course it doesn't, I have a lot of friends that think Islam is a bunch of bullshit put together, and I don't mind that. It's their opinion, it's what they think makes sense, and I am fine with that. I won't argue with them, or tell them how "good" my religion is because they WON'T get convinced. However, the only thing I'll argue about is someone saying a WRONG *fact* about my religion, or even someone else's religion, that's when I have to correct them. So nope, I don't mind.
@miranda To *me* that doesn't make sense, the whole hurting yourself. It annoys me because they call themselves "Muslims" . It's not mentioned or stated anywhere, ANYWHERE in the Quran that it's even right to hurt yourself. Smoking is "wrong" because your body is like something that God gave you, that you have to take care of , and anything that hurts your body, or hurts your health isn't like-able in Islam. Hurting yourself on purpose is STRICTLY forbidden, and so is suicide, because you are destroying what God gave you.
If they were in another religion, I wouldn't have mind, but at least when they follow a religion, they should follow it at leassssst in a "sensible" way. Or AT LEAST, not let their children do that. It's very sad that the children have to go grow up thinking that this is right.
@daliadestructo I'm with you entirely, hence my previous posts... that others might associate this with all Muslims. I have read an English version of the Koran too. Don't remember anything like this in there either. I am particularly with that last sentence... :-)
Not trying to start a debate at all. All faiths must do what they must do. Thanks to all for their comments concerning my post; I did not intent to slight or diminish anyones worship habits, just happy that my faith does not require, request or approve of, even tacit approval, of self mutilation.
besides the religious debate here - these are very powerful photos documenting a certain 'event', like most documentary images they're pretty honest in the sense that they do not try to censor much
@revjoel Gosh, we even learned about christians doing it in script analysis in theater courses in uni. People still do it today, enough so that they had an episode of House with a man crucifying himself.
@hednod without a doubt some 'full on' photos. Reminds me of what national geographic *used* to be like. beautiful, strong, insightful, contemplative.
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I don't mean anything, or to say that the images aren't well taken or anything, but I am a Muslim, and what exactly are those people doing? That is not mentioned in the Quran, that is not mentioned ANYWHERE. This has nothing to do with Islam, so what the hell is wrong with them, hurting themselves like that? I am disgusted and shocked that they think that they are Muslims. Whatever happened to knowing about a religion before following it.. and practicing such disturbing, disgusting, appalling things that are inhumane. Unbelievable.
Whatever the ritual is for, It saddens me that there are such young boys doing it : (
I suppose there is the debate that its good to document the good, bad and ugly through photography.
I know, it saddens me that their parents have brainwashed them in such a way. I don't know how a father would have the guts to see his son do that to himself.
Now, let's not have this break into another "my religion's better than your religion" thing, shall we?
Those are some pretty hardcore photos. It's a shame those guys have been led to believe that cutting themselves to shit with knives is somehow a good thing, but hey, whatever gets you through the day, right?
I don't think the photographer see all the muslims like that. Not at all. And I dont think his ibjective was to say something wrong about this religion.
But there are always some extremes cases (in all kind of religions), he wanted just to show these shoking pictures.
This is a multicultural site, no? I don't think this represents all Muslims. I am intrigued as to why they would want to do this and it makes me want to find out more. Bit disturbed that kids are involved as they are not so free to make a choice, but most are consenting adults. It's a show of their love of their God and religion and blood flows easily with the smallest cut from the head and back. I'm not a believer in any one God so I don't understand this extremity, but I would love to know more before judging. Can anyone enlighten us.
@hednod Great pictures - thanks for posting.
However, I was just expressing my frustration.
@revjoel @eyebrows Let's not start a religion debate, shall we? It will never end. I completely respect ALL religions, I respect people with no religions, I respect people who worship cows, I respect everyone.
I don't care which religion is better, I just care that the religion that *I* chose, that was NOT put down my throat when I was young is the one that makes me most comfortable, is the one that makes sense. As long as everyone feels that about their religion, they should be okay. And if they find that having no religion suits them most, then it's their choice. No religion is better than the other, and every religion has it's advantages and disadvantages.
Also, this is a minority of Muslims, very very minor people. They are called the "Shi'ite". They don't believe in "Allah" as their main God, and don't think Muhammed was worth being a prophet. They hurt themselves because they wanted to live with him.. or something like that. I don't really care because they have beliefs that don't even make sense (I've read about every religion that exists before choosing being a Muslim) .
@miranda
@miranda To *me* that doesn't make sense, the whole hurting yourself. It annoys me because they call themselves "Muslims" . It's not mentioned or stated anywhere, ANYWHERE in the Quran that it's even right to hurt yourself. Smoking is "wrong" because your body is like something that God gave you, that you have to take care of , and anything that hurts your body, or hurts your health isn't like-able in Islam. Hurting yourself on purpose is STRICTLY forbidden, and so is suicide, because you are destroying what God gave you.
If they were in another religion, I wouldn't have mind, but at least when they follow a religion, they should follow it at leassssst in a "sensible" way. Or AT LEAST, not let their children do that. It's very sad that the children have to go grow up thinking that this is right.
@hednod without a doubt some 'full on' photos. Reminds me of what national geographic *used* to be like. beautiful, strong, insightful, contemplative.