Oh boy...this is going to be an interesting discussion! There is a whole lot of gray area involved when it comes to friends and family. I just did my very first portrait session this weekend that was requested by a friend. I did not charge them a fee for the session/time but they are going to be paying for prints. When it comes to friends and family, you have to find a balance.
@ronphotography As I get better, I get more requests from friends for use of my photos. I came up with a simple rule of thumb.
-If it is an existing photo from 2011 that I have taken for my pleasure it is free.
-If you have a special request for a photo and I have to take if for you and listen to all your direction, there is a charge.
-If you want a session (i.e. maternity, baby, engagement) and I have yet to do three of that type, than it is free. Once I get a personal comfort level there will be a charge unless I will love that baby like it is my own, or it counts as your wedding gift.
- Photos taken in 2012 that have been taken there will be a charge so that I can pay for new lenses, filters, bags, tripod.
While I have no misgivings on making this a business, make money, be a professional, or have a side business, I do feel that I have grown tremendously this year and that I do have to pay for my addictive hobby sometime. Also your friends are going to pay someone so it may as well be you.
@autumnseden@brumbe that's great you guys, we're being paid for something we love to do and are loved by your friends =) same thing with me, my first clients are my friends for free, some are willing to pay for my services, then referrals came in =)
It depends on if I'll get any benefit from it. Since I do all my automotive work professionally, there is going to be only a few rare things I'll shoot for free anymore and it'd have to be something that would help me bring in more paid work.
When it's like portraits or weddings for friends and family I do it for rather cheap, but still not in the free realm. I work whenever I am not in school, so if I'm taking a day off of work to shoot something, I have to be replacing that income.
@brumbe@ronphotography I was concerned about charging but I have found that if they are going to ask for it, they are likely willing to pay for it. And I actually found that I have sold more after I raised my prices a bit. I think it is kind of a "If they are willing to give it away, it must not be worth anything" kind of thing. If that makes sense. My prices are very fair to start with and I know I am still learning so I made sure that my friend knew my prices before we went for the shoot and had agreed upon everything before hand. If I can make enough doing what I love to do to offset some of the cost of doing what I love to do, I am THRILLED!
@autumnseden You are so right about this, I used to do a lot of shots for family and friends for free, I love doing it right? one of my shots ended up on an invitation and everyone presumed that person took the shot, I was so pissed and noone could get where I was coming from, and my friend said the same to me as you have said, I have to put a value on my work, as that is what it is, so I have not come to the decision to charge a small fee, so I will see how it goes.
@cookie123 In the past I used to just charge my cost for prints + a little for the shipping but I started getting more requests and I figured out that my time and energy is worth something too so I started charging a little bit more and finally decided to setup my own site. I am not making huge amounts of money from it but I am at least breaking even or better for the most part and I am being consistent with everyone which makes a big difference. I don't have to worry about any "But you gave..." conversations with people.
I don't charge family, unless it is something huge like a wedding (and then I discount heavily). But friends pay full price. With friends though, and I mean close friends - not "some bloke from work" or "the girl at the gym who talks to me every day" - I give them lots of extras. Usually I look at what they are purchasing, and give them half again that value in prints, or something like that. I mean, prints are cheap, right? If they spend $1000, it isn't hard to give them another $500 of prints, when a 30x40 is worth $300 and costs about $20 to have printed or to print myself, or even if you charge $50 for an 8x10 - 10 extra prints takes care of family Christmas gifts for them, or desk art for their office. Of course, they are (usually) prints they have ordered, so I'm not doing major editing work to extra images - I'm just giving them some more wall art, or gift prints etc. I just guesstimate it anyway - I give them what I feel like giving. Or if they want something they can't afford, and it isn't going to cost my business heavily (like say, canvasses can), I'll throw it in, but after they've settled on not having it (so I know I haven't done myself out of a sale or been suckered). Even friends will take advantage, sometimes especially friends, because they forget that the work you are doing is feeding your family. So, yeah - I don't tell them, I just do it and surprise them.
I have done trade for photos in the past, but no longer do it unless it is me who instigates it. Every time I've done it for someone else, at their behest, I've been used and it has not been even close to worth my while. On a similar note, I've had clients try to get me to discount by saying, "I'll let you use the photos for free, for advertising your business." Well, they already signed a piece of paper when they booked me, to say that I can do that. And anyway - I own the Copyright. They're not "giving" me anything I don't already have, and if they don't want to let me use my photos they either get charged an extra fee (yes, really) or I refer them to someone else. Unless there are special circumstances, of course.
Also, like @autumnseden , I've had more bookings every time I've raised my prices. I work on the pretext that, if I can afford my images it is time to raise my prices. I want the top end of the market, so that's what I need to do to get there (consistently). You know it is working when you raise your prices, then get a booking and end up making $3600 (profit) on a basic portrait shoot. They're not all like that, of course, but aiming for no less than $1000 on every sale is do-able (even for me with my "no sitting fee and no minimum buy" policy), and I believe should be the minimum benchmark for photographic art work.
On a slightly different topic, I need a turnover of about $400 000, in order to pay myself $70k per year, so there's no way I'm going to give away my work.
@jinximages I am definitely not anywhere near this level yet - I just did my first portrait session over the weekend - but I have read reassures me that I am heading in the right direction. Even though they were my first shoot I still charged them for the prints. Granted, it was not very much because I need to build my portfolio, etc but I did charge them all the same and over time what I charge will increase as my experience and customer base increases too. I realize that my time is valuable and that I am talented or they would not have asked me to begin with. My profits from this weekend were modest but I am still well on my way to having my flash paid off (which makes me very happy!) and I learned a lot from my experience. I think the key is knowing the trade off and knowing when to give a little and when to say no. I did throw in a few freebies with their order (which they do not know yet) so I am glad we are of the same mind on that as well. I figure it will give them a chance to see products they did not order yet and it will encourage reorders since they know what to expect from me. =)
@jinximages@autumnseden thanks for your responses. In giving clients freebies they don't know about (which I appreciate are value-added service to them), my question is do you encounter cases wherein clients say "oh I would rather have the other picture framed/printed instead, etc."?
@ronphotography I haven't had this happen. They may well say it later, but not to me - they aren't expecting extras, so it would be unusual for them to think something like that immediately. And if they said something later, I'd just make a point of saying it was a gift, and if they'd like something else then they can order it. :)
@autumnseden Sounds like you're on the right track to me. :) A lot of photographers have no idea of their actual working costs, when they start out, and they think they're making money when they're actually going backwards.
@jinximages Thank you! I am trying to keep in mind that they are not just paying for me to take pictures. They are paying for my equipment, time, travel, experience, website and so on. I have probably spent the last year working at a small loss but I expected that and it is paying off now. Plus I am getting to do what I LOVE which is a huge bonus on its own. This weekend was the perfect example! I got to get paid to spend the day in Tahoe shooting a couple that I adore. Can't ask for much more than that! =)
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-If it is an existing photo from 2011 that I have taken for my pleasure it is free.
-If you have a special request for a photo and I have to take if for you and listen to all your direction, there is a charge.
-If you want a session (i.e. maternity, baby, engagement) and I have yet to do three of that type, than it is free. Once I get a personal comfort level there will be a charge unless I will love that baby like it is my own, or it counts as your wedding gift.
- Photos taken in 2012 that have been taken there will be a charge so that I can pay for new lenses, filters, bags, tripod.
While I have no misgivings on making this a business, make money, be a professional, or have a side business, I do feel that I have grown tremendously this year and that I do have to pay for my addictive hobby sometime. Also your friends are going to pay someone so it may as well be you.
peeps, what are you experiences?
When it's like portraits or weddings for friends and family I do it for rather cheap, but still not in the free realm. I work whenever I am not in school, so if I'm taking a day off of work to shoot something, I have to be replacing that income.
I have done trade for photos in the past, but no longer do it unless it is me who instigates it. Every time I've done it for someone else, at their behest, I've been used and it has not been even close to worth my while. On a similar note, I've had clients try to get me to discount by saying, "I'll let you use the photos for free, for advertising your business." Well, they already signed a piece of paper when they booked me, to say that I can do that. And anyway - I own the Copyright. They're not "giving" me anything I don't already have, and if they don't want to let me use my photos they either get charged an extra fee (yes, really) or I refer them to someone else. Unless there are special circumstances, of course.
Also, like @autumnseden , I've had more bookings every time I've raised my prices. I work on the pretext that, if I can afford my images it is time to raise my prices. I want the top end of the market, so that's what I need to do to get there (consistently). You know it is working when you raise your prices, then get a booking and end up making $3600 (profit) on a basic portrait shoot. They're not all like that, of course, but aiming for no less than $1000 on every sale is do-able (even for me with my "no sitting fee and no minimum buy" policy), and I believe should be the minimum benchmark for photographic art work.
On a slightly different topic, I need a turnover of about $400 000, in order to pay myself $70k per year, so there's no way I'm going to give away my work.