There seem to be two schools of thought floating around...
one suggests that one should take pictures, lots of them, and stop worrying about nailing the perfect shot, including whether or not the one(s) you're posting here are on the right side of awesome...
the other suggests that you think twice before clicking the shutter and let your photos percolate for a while before posting them to be sure that you're only posting your best...
i'm really struggling with this... on the one hand, i do think that you (me, anyway) need to keep taking pictures in order to improve... on the other, i am becoming increasingly critical of every shot i take, second guessing most decisions to post and otherwise making myself a little nutty...
anyone care to weigh in on where the balance lies?
I go by the rule of thumb that if a subject has a lot of movement and action I click away but if it is still I take my time with the shot either way I analize what I have taken to see if and how it can be improved and pick the one that speaks to me the most.
That is what happens when you listen to everyone but yourself. You need to find the balance that works for you. Some photos you will want to really work to compose but most others will be of sights that appeal to you or move you in some way. This can come together in a perfectly composed photo that means something to you.
Do not get caught up in trying to be someone you are not. I find those who make the popular page, for example, are in the right place at the right time or have perfected a way to photograph something. The later comes with continual practice in developing your own style. Make the photos yours and you will stand out otherwise you will blend in with all the others and no one will notice.
@dmortega that is indeed sage advice... i know i can't be something i'm not, and i don't set my standards by the popular page for any number of different reasons... but i guess where i struggle is with the photos that are almost what i was striving for, but not quite... of late, i've left several street shots "on the cutting room floor" as it were because none had most of the elements i wanted... you know... interesting subject, interesting expression, interesting light, but annoying passerby in the background.. then clean background, but subject isn't looking in my direction anymore... i think my decisions are mostly the right ones, but sometimes i wonder :)
I'm with @asrai on this, but I ESPECIALLY take my time with film; which has actually forced my mind to look at all shots now with a critical eye. I do take TONS of shots with the digital though because I can get away with it and sort it down to the best fairly quickly. Overall, I just take so darned many pictures that I have a stockpile of nice ones just waiting to get posted :) The best thing you can do is to just keep shooting with a mindset of "how can I make this look different?" You may find yourself crawling on the ground, standing on chairs, turning the camera at a strange angle, etc.
@asrai oh yes... very good points... i have been trying to work harder at composition... still missing the mark, but at least i'm remembering to think about it ;p
@grizzlysghost ba haaa haaa... oh yes, i've perfected the crouch and crawl... ;p
with street photos, however, composition continues to be an interesting challenge... and i'm constantly kicking myself for forgetting to watch what's in the background... resulting in annoying photobombs that just do NOT add to the shots...
Street shots can be tricky, but if you are up close and personal with the subject you may be able to avoid the background problem by opening your aperture until the background is blurred out. The further you are away from the target though the less effect this has.
I used to just shoot, but the more I know, that more I have to think about. My current insanity is to compose so that I never have to crop, It's not fool proof---I cropped tonight. But in general, I crop very little lately. I find that every time I pick a goal like that, I improve and then can think less. I guess my goal is to think more so that I can think less later, Does that make sense? :-)
two schools of thought....i reckon you need to go with a combination of both you suggest, and then follow up and get happy with your internal struggle :-)
You said..
1. Take lots of photos....Absolutely.
2. Think about it while you are taking it.
both of these can go hand in hand, shoot lots and think about it. Before you know it, you will naturally start taking shots that are better, because you give it that thought.
The internal struggle of being critical is one that comes from actually thinking what you are doing, and a desire to improve. Use that struggle to your advantage, and don't see it as a negative.
I think forums and sites like these to share/collaborate/comment/critique are invaluable. That "other persons viewpoint" puts a new light on your work, that will help you understand the critical view you have of your own...and importantly highlights that we are almost always our own worst critic.
Understand that there will be good and bad shots. Understand there will be those you look at and think...i can do better. Accept and embrace your nutti-ness (you are not alone, welcome to the club! :-)
Underlying all that....enjoy what you do. and do this project for yourself.
@5unflow3r it certainly does! when i do set up shots at home, i can spend hours trying to get the comp just right... so if nothing else, if my shooting is all done outside during the day then i am stuck with what i have and spend less time fussing about.... but you're right... the times i actually worked to compose the shot properly i had much less to do in terms of processing :)
I have been told to take lots of photos and I have been told to just take a photo after I know it will be good. I have found that I have to have a balance between the two school of thoughts. I have found that some shots that I thought were good when I took them were not good when thrown up on the computer screen (and vice versa). I am a perfectionist. I have had to learn to enjoy the process of photography. Not all of my photos will be good ones. I was once told that photographers only get one out of 100 or more photos.
It's all part of growing and expecting more, so well done. Some people never go there but true pros only go there.
As you know from some of my work I can be very particular and to a point where it has to be perfect in my eyes before I will post.
I say embrace the challenge of creating a perfect image first shot... Be hard on yourself and push threw the frustration as you will be rewarded with increased skill and imaged that your are proud to hang not only on your wall but anyone's wall.
@stuey tx Stuey... you are right that i need to do this for myself... now if i wasn't perpetually of two (and sometimes three!) minds when it comes to the photos!!! and yeah, i'm definitely my own worst critic (but probably could do with a little more critique... people are soooo gentle here!)...
@daisy tx Daisy... i keep reminding myself of that statistic! i think it's important to remember that even the pros leave shots on the darkroom floor... and to some degree, i think it's the discipline of choosing "the one" that is important...
Maybe is bit of both- some careful and some careless shots. Sometimes there's so much charm in an unexpected snap. It's easy to over-think these things. I'm definitely at the shoot lots and maybe one will be ok stage!
I agree with @grizzlysghost and the others. I think it definitely helps to shoot everyday ... Experiment with settings, composition, POV ... sometimes there is time, and sometimes there isn't. Some days I like a couple of my shots, others I don't like any. I like 365 because it's forced a bit of discipline, and the community aspect keeps me motivated when I might otherwise not be. The downside is that, especially if you have 3 albums, you feel like you can/should post in all of them. ThIs is when that sense of "think before pushing the button" and "only post your best work" comes in (vs posting because I have extra pictures). My rule has been to post in two albums a day at most; most recently, I thought I would sit on some of my shots for one week before posting in my alternate album (still posting a daily shot in the 365 album). I've found that the shots I liked sometimes aren't so great, and others that I was ready to give up on actually had some fun potential. Ultimately, this is your project, your learning process, your experience and experiment ... push it in the way that works for you. That may not be the way it works for others, and that's ok. And it seems like your fellow 365ers will be supportive of the journey, regardless of the path. :)
I think the percolate philosophy is more about giving yourself time to forgot about what you was trying to capture, and therefore be disappointed if its not exactly how you remember it. When I shot digital I would get home and look at the photos straight away and often be disappointed that it was how I remembered it, now only shooting film it is sometimes a week before I see the shot, and look at it with a fresh perspective and take it on its own merits.
With street, I think there are 2 styles of shot. Firstly a shot which just focus on a person, like @grizzlysghost said drop the aperture value, I only shoot up close and at f/2.8 for those shots so the background is blurred out. The other type of shot is a street scene, which may or may not have people in. Here you can take your time, set up the shot and waiting for people to walk into shot / or not depending on what you are after.
Also it kind of depends on how you are using 365, I take photo's as I love taking photos and use this site just as an extension of my photography, its not my main reason for taking photos.
That may or may not have made sense, I kinda suck at explaining stuff.
FOr me it depends what I'm shooting - if it's a subject I am unfamiliar with then I may take LOTS of quick shots from all sorts of POV, I will then analyse them and work out what works and what doesn't and use the elements of what works to build a good shot. Sometimes if I'm pressed for time I'll only do the first bit...and then if I shoot the same sort of thing again I have learned from the first bit, if that makes sense? Same rule applies if I'm trying a new lens...shoot away and work out what is working and why it isn't if its not. I have days where I take very few shots becasue it's something I am familiar with and therefore knwo what i'm doing, other days I can reel off hundreds in my learning process. Easier with digital nowadays, in the days of film, I used to do this is a more controlled way - used to write down all my settings etc for each frame so I had good reference points
I think that the advent of digital is what has led me to just "shooting" - this is something I really want to improve on, because ultimately the time consumption then just comes on the OTHER end. . .weeding through all the accumulated garbage shots. I'm trying to get to the point where I don't just hold the shutter down! ;-> 365 has certainly made me more mindful of all of the things I should be doing. . .
I really don't know where i stand on the subject. Before this project, I would shoot and shoot, I could take over 1,000 photos and maybe have about 10-20 that were "good" and I had no idea what I did.
Then, I did my 365 project and I stuck to the photo a day, NO MATTER what, ignoring fillers and all of the opinions about only posting your very best and wow, has my photography REALLY taken off. I just completed my book from year one and I cannot believe how much I have grown not only from day one, but how much I have learned from day 365 to now.
But, once I learned all of the technical stuff and knew how to make the photo and only had to take 5-10 shots, I started ignoring my gut and my photography suffered too.
So now, I try to find balance. I use my knowledge, my gut, and still use trial and error here and there. There are benefits to shooting everyday, but I don't know about posting for the world to see each day, that I don't do any more.
In long form, all I am trying to say is there are benefits to both camps of thinking. Do what works best for you.
I'm with you on the percolating bit. a lot of the pictures I liked at the time I tend to detest now and visa versa. But I like to upload a picture a day.
I have to agree with a lot of what Adam and Jase said....and here's my two cents.
If I see something that is interesting and I want to get a shot of, I start composing it in my head, framing, what parts of the scene I want to highlight, etc. while I am getting into position. Then I shoot how my minds eye envisioned it and start changing it up after a few frames...new angle, zoom in, zoom out, whatever will make it different from my initial viewpoint. Sometimes those are the best shots, too.
I also have let my shots percolate in the camera....that doesn't help if you are trying to take/post once per day but it can with a little work...if you even let them sit for a day or two then download, edit, etc, you will probably see a different result, than if you did it all in one day. You might be a day or three behind but thats ok, you took a photo everyday and posted it in the correct slot on the calendar...
Nobody says you have to rush the post processing or posting.
Take lots of pictures everyday but think about each scene...what attracted you to that? What do you want to convey with your composition, and then try to capture that.
As far as street goes; you have to be a bit of a mind reader. If you can predict by their conversation or body language where/when they are going to be looking in a certain direction, it will help you time your shot..look at the pedestrain patterns and see if you can find an angle to shoot from that will avoid passerby in the background or frame if that is what you want....or at least allow you to time out the gaps in traffic.
In short, compose the scene in your mind and then make it happen...but don't rush it if you don't have to. If you know what settings will most likely work, set them ahead of time, then all you have to do is press the shutter when the time is right.
As far as posting on here goes...forget about perfection according to this site....post your work to help yourself improve or show off when YOU feel you got the shot, not when you hope everyone else THINKS you got it....One of my two PP appearances, I was totally not expecting it, just liked the shot...the second, I knew I nailed exactly what I was going for and wanted to show off, PP was in my mind but only as a terciary thing, it wasn't my goal....all my shots I posted with the goal of getting on there....flopped, most big time.
Post daily because you want to improve or are proud of the shot....pick a few and post one...save the others for another day. Don't go "nutty" worrying about it...it's just the internetz.
My two cents - having come of age in the film era, we did not just "click away" - it was far too expensive. I was taught to properly compose a shot, choose exposure and focus carefully, then take the best picture I could. And I still do this. Just "clicking away" is fine if all you want to do is take snapshots that no one but yourself will want to see. But if you want to become a photographer and make photographs, you have to put the effort in - both in composing and setting the camera properly, and then in post processing.
thank you all so much for taking the time to provide thoughtful replies... there are so many different perspectives, but i think in the end, it all seems to boil down to common themes of patience, learning and integrity...
i think the clicking away option may still be the best with an active and unpredictable subject, but even then, i'm working on making myself think about background and foreground and "take a breath" timing (wait till the guy is looking right at me, or the pup is in the air, or the splash is big)...
and with subjects that aren't moving, i am working more at composition and emotion (?) than actual representation when attempting to record the memory (if that makes any sense at all)...
i really don't aim for pp... i've had three shots make it, one frankly did not deserve it, one was as much dumb luck than anything else, and the third surprised me, but i was glad because it was not a run-of-the mill shot... i am perpetually surprised, altho' perhaps i shouldn't be, at how few street shots seem to make the pp...
anyhoo... thank you once again... if ever you are looking at my photos and have suggestions for improving them, pls feel free to let me know... constructive critique is always welcome!
I'm famous for shooting one thing 100 times from all angles. I'm getting much better at thinking it through, just because I'm tired of sorting them out and deleting on my computer!
This makes me want to start a ONE (or maybe 3, to leave room for a settings check) shot a day series. Post - good or bad. Curious to see the difference between the first and last day.
@jtrudell tx Janine... you're right that overthinking can be bad... definitely stalls me out... on the other hand, i have to think that SOME thinking is good... like @shutterbugger i used to shoot dozens and dozens and dozens of shots at different angles of the same subject... i think i am getting better at narrowing things down quicker... not down to only 2 or 3 in most cases (i WISH!!!!), but definitely being more thoughtful before pushing the shutterbutton...
@teamoliver tx guys! i definitely want to improve (and keep improving!), so i guess more thought is definitely required :)
I like to take "capture the moment" SOOC camera kind of pictures.. No editing, PP or even framing the picture. Before taking it. 365 is changing that a bit.. I edit, crop and think how can I make what I am trying to convey better. You Can do both as long as you are not striving for perfection bit looking to learn something new everyday. Above all, don't forget to have fun.. Enjoy!!
Even when you try to make only good shots, you'll have thousands a year. So when you don't matter, what will their numbers be? And what will you do with all this snapshots?
I always try to make the best shots possible, I really shoot a lot, select the best on the pc and process them. Delete the rest. But ofcourse everybody is free to make his or her own choices. Just don't forget to enjoy photography!
I just play and have fun. I don't want to put too much thought into photography because then it would become work and for me it's my relaxing time. Each person has to figure out what their goals are and what they are trying to achieve. Personally, I enjoy taking lots of photos.
@djepie Agree 1000%. Although digital has so many advantages, one of its negatives is that it is so easy and virtually free (once you buy the camera) to take thousands of shots, that the good ones, the ones that really matter, often get lost in the clutter. I am a big fan of taking less shots but making the ones you take really count.
When I was shooting film, I was always so aware of the cost of developing the film that I didn't experiment at all. My photography was fine for scenics but forget anything else. I am lousy at being organized, couldn't remember what settings a picture was taken at, or else couldn't figure out which shot went with which setting. My photography stayed completely stuck in a (not very good) rut.
Then I found digital, with it's delete button and no on-going cost (well, no on-going film and developing costs), to be very liberating. It let me experiment with abandon. And my photography got better very quickly.
I long ago gave up trying to take the perfect picture. There isn't any such thing - the closest thing is really, really good ones. Remember, if you don't push the shutter because you are aiming for the "perfect" picture, you won't take a really, really good picture. So my philosophy is when in doubt, push the shutter.
Photography isn't something that can be entirely learned out of a book. The technical aspects you can learn from a book is a great starting point, but that's all it is. I can look up in a table and tell you what the dof will be using a particular aperture and a particular focal length on a particular camera. But that doesn't tell you whether that particular depth of field will look right for a particular scene. And knowing intellectually how shutter speed and aperature work together to create an exposure doesn't give you the instinctive ability to automatically choose the correct settings for a particular situation, it just gives you an idea of where to start. So for me, at least, actually taking pictures, lots of them, using all kinds of settings and all kinds of angles etc. is important to learning photography.
I'm not talking about shooting indiscriminately and thoughtlessly. I'm talking about taking a shot, then changing things up and taking it again. I'm talking about looking at something and then saying "I wonder what it would look like if I did ..." Then looking at what those settings and changes did to the scene on the monitor, and seeing what settings worked and what didn't, what angles are cool and what you missed seeing through the viewfinder (the pole sticking out of the person's head, the awful reflection in the upper right corner etc.). Look at the shots and say "this worked well, this worked sort-of, gee I wish that I had done that on this shot." Then re-shoot with those settings or use them next time you go out. After a while you'll begin to get a more instinctive feel for how it all comes together. Get lots of feedback. It's OK to try to copy something someone else did, especially if you try to improve on what they did or make changes - all of that is learning.
What I love about photography is that it's only boring if I make it. There's always something new to learn, new things to try if I take the opportunity to try. It's a life-long process, not something like a maze computer game where once learned it's always the same. I have learned that aiming for perfection in photography is the way to frustration and failure, so I only aim at learning new things, getting better and having fun. And along the way I have a much better feeling for my equipment and what to use when. My pictures get better the more I try and the more I learn/practice.
Write a Reply
Sign up for a free account or Sign in to post a comment.
Tweets ahoy!
Join the Group
Pin With Me
Do not get caught up in trying to be someone you are not. I find those who make the popular page, for example, are in the right place at the right time or have perfected a way to photograph something. The later comes with continual practice in developing your own style. Make the photos yours and you will stand out otherwise you will blend in with all the others and no one will notice.
with street photos, however, composition continues to be an interesting challenge... and i'm constantly kicking myself for forgetting to watch what's in the background... resulting in annoying photobombs that just do NOT add to the shots...
You said..
1. Take lots of photos....Absolutely.
2. Think about it while you are taking it.
both of these can go hand in hand, shoot lots and think about it. Before you know it, you will naturally start taking shots that are better, because you give it that thought.
The internal struggle of being critical is one that comes from actually thinking what you are doing, and a desire to improve. Use that struggle to your advantage, and don't see it as a negative.
I think forums and sites like these to share/collaborate/comment/critique are invaluable. That "other persons viewpoint" puts a new light on your work, that will help you understand the critical view you have of your own...and importantly highlights that we are almost always our own worst critic.
Understand that there will be good and bad shots. Understand there will be those you look at and think...i can do better. Accept and embrace your nutti-ness (you are not alone, welcome to the club! :-)
Underlying all that....enjoy what you do. and do this project for yourself.
As you know from some of my work I can be very particular and to a point where it has to be perfect in my eyes before I will post.
I say embrace the challenge of creating a perfect image first shot... Be hard on yourself and push threw the frustration as you will be rewarded with increased skill and imaged that your are proud to hang not only on your wall but anyone's wall.
Lots of creativity is to be found in play.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't improve our skills - it just means that, in improving skills, we learn not to lose our playfulness.
:)
With street, I think there are 2 styles of shot. Firstly a shot which just focus on a person, like @grizzlysghost said drop the aperture value, I only shoot up close and at f/2.8 for those shots so the background is blurred out. The other type of shot is a street scene, which may or may not have people in. Here you can take your time, set up the shot and waiting for people to walk into shot / or not depending on what you are after.
Also it kind of depends on how you are using 365, I take photo's as I love taking photos and use this site just as an extension of my photography, its not my main reason for taking photos.
That may or may not have made sense, I kinda suck at explaining stuff.
Then, I did my 365 project and I stuck to the photo a day, NO MATTER what, ignoring fillers and all of the opinions about only posting your very best and wow, has my photography REALLY taken off. I just completed my book from year one and I cannot believe how much I have grown not only from day one, but how much I have learned from day 365 to now.
But, once I learned all of the technical stuff and knew how to make the photo and only had to take 5-10 shots, I started ignoring my gut and my photography suffered too.
So now, I try to find balance. I use my knowledge, my gut, and still use trial and error here and there. There are benefits to shooting everyday, but I don't know about posting for the world to see each day, that I don't do any more.
In long form, all I am trying to say is there are benefits to both camps of thinking. Do what works best for you.
If I see something that is interesting and I want to get a shot of, I start composing it in my head, framing, what parts of the scene I want to highlight, etc. while I am getting into position. Then I shoot how my minds eye envisioned it and start changing it up after a few frames...new angle, zoom in, zoom out, whatever will make it different from my initial viewpoint. Sometimes those are the best shots, too.
I also have let my shots percolate in the camera....that doesn't help if you are trying to take/post once per day but it can with a little work...if you even let them sit for a day or two then download, edit, etc, you will probably see a different result, than if you did it all in one day. You might be a day or three behind but thats ok, you took a photo everyday and posted it in the correct slot on the calendar...
Nobody says you have to rush the post processing or posting.
Take lots of pictures everyday but think about each scene...what attracted you to that? What do you want to convey with your composition, and then try to capture that.
As far as street goes; you have to be a bit of a mind reader. If you can predict by their conversation or body language where/when they are going to be looking in a certain direction, it will help you time your shot..look at the pedestrain patterns and see if you can find an angle to shoot from that will avoid passerby in the background or frame if that is what you want....or at least allow you to time out the gaps in traffic.
In short, compose the scene in your mind and then make it happen...but don't rush it if you don't have to. If you know what settings will most likely work, set them ahead of time, then all you have to do is press the shutter when the time is right.
Post daily because you want to improve or are proud of the shot....pick a few and post one...save the others for another day. Don't go "nutty" worrying about it...it's just the internetz.
thank you all so much for taking the time to provide thoughtful replies... there are so many different perspectives, but i think in the end, it all seems to boil down to common themes of patience, learning and integrity...
i think the clicking away option may still be the best with an active and unpredictable subject, but even then, i'm working on making myself think about background and foreground and "take a breath" timing (wait till the guy is looking right at me, or the pup is in the air, or the splash is big)...
and with subjects that aren't moving, i am working more at composition and emotion (?) than actual representation when attempting to record the memory (if that makes any sense at all)...
i really don't aim for pp... i've had three shots make it, one frankly did not deserve it, one was as much dumb luck than anything else, and the third surprised me, but i was glad because it was not a run-of-the mill shot... i am perpetually surprised, altho' perhaps i shouldn't be, at how few street shots seem to make the pp...
anyhoo... thank you once again... if ever you are looking at my photos and have suggestions for improving them, pls feel free to let me know... constructive critique is always welcome!
This makes me want to start a ONE (or maybe 3, to leave room for a settings check) shot a day series. Post - good or bad. Curious to see the difference between the first and last day.
@teamoliver tx guys! i definitely want to improve (and keep improving!), so i guess more thought is definitely required :)
I always try to make the best shots possible, I really shoot a lot, select the best on the pc and process them. Delete the rest. But ofcourse everybody is free to make his or her own choices. Just don't forget to enjoy photography!
Then I found digital, with it's delete button and no on-going cost (well, no on-going film and developing costs), to be very liberating. It let me experiment with abandon. And my photography got better very quickly.
I long ago gave up trying to take the perfect picture. There isn't any such thing - the closest thing is really, really good ones. Remember, if you don't push the shutter because you are aiming for the "perfect" picture, you won't take a really, really good picture. So my philosophy is when in doubt, push the shutter.
Photography isn't something that can be entirely learned out of a book. The technical aspects you can learn from a book is a great starting point, but that's all it is. I can look up in a table and tell you what the dof will be using a particular aperture and a particular focal length on a particular camera. But that doesn't tell you whether that particular depth of field will look right for a particular scene. And knowing intellectually how shutter speed and aperature work together to create an exposure doesn't give you the instinctive ability to automatically choose the correct settings for a particular situation, it just gives you an idea of where to start. So for me, at least, actually taking pictures, lots of them, using all kinds of settings and all kinds of angles etc. is important to learning photography.
I'm not talking about shooting indiscriminately and thoughtlessly. I'm talking about taking a shot, then changing things up and taking it again. I'm talking about looking at something and then saying "I wonder what it would look like if I did ..." Then looking at what those settings and changes did to the scene on the monitor, and seeing what settings worked and what didn't, what angles are cool and what you missed seeing through the viewfinder (the pole sticking out of the person's head, the awful reflection in the upper right corner etc.). Look at the shots and say "this worked well, this worked sort-of, gee I wish that I had done that on this shot." Then re-shoot with those settings or use them next time you go out. After a while you'll begin to get a more instinctive feel for how it all comes together. Get lots of feedback. It's OK to try to copy something someone else did, especially if you try to improve on what they did or make changes - all of that is learning.
What I love about photography is that it's only boring if I make it. There's always something new to learn, new things to try if I take the opportunity to try. It's a life-long process, not something like a maze computer game where once learned it's always the same. I have learned that aiming for perfection in photography is the way to frustration and failure, so I only aim at learning new things, getting better and having fun. And along the way I have a much better feeling for my equipment and what to use when. My pictures get better the more I try and the more I learn/practice.