Feeling a bit defeated so want people's opinions..
I'm hoping to get into wedding photography so thought I'd ask my facebook fans ( www.facebook.com/kirstyryanphotography.com - gotta plug when you can, hehe) if they knew of anyone getting married soon who wouldn't mind me coming along to take photos at their wedding at no cost.
I had a few replies, and had a wedding lined up for a few weeks time that I was really excited about. Then I was told that the photographer asked that I not come, apparently he is "picky like that".
What is this guy/girl so paranoid about? He'd already secured the job, and was clearly going to be the professional on the day, I'm only learning.
Is this a reaction I should get used to if I want to get practice? If so, does anyone have any suggestions of how to get practice without offending anyone? Weddings are exciting but daunting; if I was to miss out on getting a particular shot, I may ruin the couple's day, and you can't restage a wedding too easily! This is why I want to get some free practice under my belt first, and see if it's something I'm good at.
Personally I wouldn't take offence at what was said. I'd ask friends if you can offer to do their weddings for cheap ... just keep asking you will get someone who is willing to help you .. hang in there
They shouldn't have mentioned it to the photographer... you could just be an enthusiastic guest. The couple shouldn't mind considering they're going to get more pics out of it. I know I'd allow it at mine.
I hope you find more soon! And hopefully ones without whiney photographers. :)
I wouldn't line it up with the bride and groom, find local photogs who need a second shooter/PA and volunteer. Offer them your card and work out a deal as to who is doing the pp and such... (likely he will)
yepp photogs are for the most part super narotic parinod ppl who think everyone with camera is out to get them...
goto the wedding, pack your camera, don't take the same shoots he is taking, rather take the other 99% of guest he will ignore because they are not on the 'must' have list of wedding photos... get the old uncle with the young kids, ect... you still get practice at an event... setting up ppl ect... than give your photos away if that is what you are wanting to do... than when the next wedding comes up you have some samples to show the photog as to why you should/can work with them....
ps I am assuming you are a guest at this wedding any how... I wouldn't crash a wedding to take photos... well I would... but I cannot tell anyone else to do that...;)
Nope you are not paranoid. I have not crossed this specific bridge, but I work with photographers just like the one you mentioned. Their view seems to be everyone else who holds a camera is a threat. Don't take it personal.
I would suggest requesting from seasoned wedding photographers to shadow their shoot. They will have more connections to weddings in your area so more opportunities to learn the tricks of the trade. Ask if they will view your shots at the end of the day and give you tips on how to improve.
Good Luck!
Its pretty standard for a pro wedding tog to not like other people being there as a tog...they are there to do a job, a pretty important one at that, and if it were me I wouldnt want anyone getting in the way.
Now its another story if you line it up with the tog him/herself...but I completely understand why the tog said no. Its not about being paranoid imo, its about doing the best job one can do, I've seen how guests take their DSLR's to weddings, and the bridal party and guests often mistake them for the pro tog.
If you wanted to become a driving instructor, would you go to a driving instructor down the road and ask him to let you watch how he does it, for free, so you can be competition for his potential future business?
Or a hairdresser, and you asked a local barber if you could sit in and learn the lesson's he's learned, for free, so you can set up in competition?
Business is business, of course he's not going to want you there, and it's not paranoid - it's business.
Not surprising. I'm not sure its wise to ask to tag along. As @eyebrows pointed out, its business. Its not paranoia. Why not working for a photographer as an assistant? You will get some wedding experience, and most likely pick up some tips and tricks of the trade.
I don't let anyone shoot when I'm shooting weddings. During the service and whatever, well, everyone has a camera anyway, but when I'm going to locations and doing all the wedding album shots - absolutely no cameras. Why? Because someone will invariably see something that I've set up, using my own years of experience, learning, workshops, study etc, and shoot it over my shoulder. Then they'll give that to the client who won't buy my photo, because it is almost the same. So I can lose, potentially, thousands of dollars in extra sales of canvasses or large prints. Potentially. Of course, not many are actually capable of getting "the shot" even shooting over my shoulder, but some will. And others will put the photos up on their own sites to make them look good, when in actual fact they couldn't possibly reproduce a shot of that quality by themselves. But I'll still (potentially) lose business to them as a result, and weddings don't get "re-shot" very often. Or another pro will lose out.
I'm all for educating fellow photographers, even in my own geographic area. But, I won't do it on a paid job unless the photographer is my assistant, and then they'll be shooting what I'm not shooting, or carrying my stuff, or holding reflectors etc - they will learn by observation and doing, and not by waiting for me to set something up so they can steal the shot.
As has been suggested, get onside with a pro photog and learn that way, rather than have a pro photog's client try to sneak you in, so-to-speak, no matter how innocently.
Some very interesting view points here guys, thank you all so much for your honesty!
I was only planning on taking photos at the actual wedding service and the reception, not the posed shots out on location. What I want more, I guess, is experience in the church and reception area; getting the lighting and mood down, and obviously having photos to show potential clients.
What some of you have said about someone potentially "stealing" a photographers shots makes sense, so I'm glad I got your advice.
This wasn't a wedding I was invited to, it was a friend of a friend, so I can't go and be one of the many with an SLR, unfortunately :(
Will keep trying; get some experience at events and then approach an experienced photographer to offer assistance.
@icywarm What Jordan said. If I was a Wedding photog, I wouldn't want you there either. Don't take it wrong. You don't need to be in their way. They have enough work to do, without shooing other people out of the way so they can accomplish what they are getting paid to do. It can affect their work.
Volunteer as an apprentice. Do the grunt work. That's how you learn.
Doing weddings for free sounds nice, but when doing so, you are taking someone else's job away that makes their livelihood by it.
The problem is that some (perhaps most) wedding photograpers charge only a basic fee for taking the photographs and rely heavily on print sales to make the job profitable, and the presence of anyone else with a camera immediately reduces their potential income ... and if they suspect that person might actually be in competition they may invoke a clause in their contract (if they have one) giving them exclusivity.
Not paranoid, but necessary for survival. I do believe that the prices they charge for their prints are excessive, but they have to earn a living somehow, and with so many people snapping away, their actual income is far less now that it used to be when they could be sure of selling a far greater number of prints at much lower prices.
Are you sure you want to become a professional in this field? It is extremely expensive to set up, and only the very best are likely to survive for much longer.
@wordpixman thanks for your reply, I don't think that I do want to be a professional wedding photographer, no. It'd just be nice to get random jobs every now and then, for family and friends of friends of friends :)
From some of the replies I've been getting it sounds like a bit of a cut throat industry, and I know I probably wouldn't survive anyway!
@kirsterellie
Based on what youi said, you might consider what I did once when a friend asked me to photograph his wedding. I did not have the facilities to offer a decent print service but I was on good terms with the leading local wedding photographer and struck a deal with him: I would do the job under my own steam and handle all the print orders and he would do all the processing and give me a generous price reduction for the prints and albums on condition that I did not tell anybody. That way, he made a small profit and I was able to please my friend with a personal service at minimal cost to cover my expenses, and everybody was happy.
One word of advice if you do want to go ahead is to discuss the couple's requirements in advance, whether they want 'the usual' set groups, candid shots, or some of the special poses or spectacular effects they have seen elsewhere, and only accept the job if you are sure you can deliver.
@kirsterellie ,How could you be sure that you do not want be a wedding photographer??
If you try it, like it,and do well,go for it!You must try.
May the photographer are just afraid to have someone who will appear in his bride and groom shot with a camera ,just don't want take the risk,at end he don't know you.
You should look for a photographer in need of a assistant.Thanks God there's lots of professionals,who are confident in their talents, their market and happy in give to you a helping hand to receive it back.
Open a space in a market is difficult in all fields,require time, invest and study.
In photography I perceived that discover your own style,and apply it where is more profitable seems to be the point isn't?
So, go for it!
Hugs
@kirsterellie Depends how the photographer operates. If he is going to the trouble of giving up a day using very expensive equipment and sells the photographs to earn his money, then I would also not be happy. The guy/girl has to earn their bread. On the other hand if he is on a set fee, there is less to worry about.
I have often thought of doing the same as you, but I now see some of the trip wires. However, I'd keep trying until you get lucky. Good luck.
i have it in the wedding contract not to allow other photographers / cameras. nothing like setting up a shot, lights, etc, only to have someone else snap the shot then the bride and groom not buy images because uncle buck took the same shots and is giving the disc of photos to the bride and groom for free. in the contract if i see others snapping shots the contract is void and i get my assistants and we leave. no pics for their wedding. i had a wedding where a friend tried snapping the same shots, i didn't see it, the bride did, and she booted him out.
talk to local photographers, offer to help out, chances are you will be able to find a photog that you can help and learn from. go to the photog in person though, it will probably improve chances. sending an email text or phone call will prob not help too much.
I've not read all the replies ... but .... I'm thinking that each photographer has his/her style and they'd not want someone (a potential rival) to see how they set it up .... my feeling is that a professional photographer wouldn't want you tagging along to possibly share/steal ideas.
However, as a happy clicker .... I often take the candid shots, the moment when there's a natural laugh or delightful expression that no one else is looking for ... those are the photographs that will give much pleasure as they illustrate the other dimension of the wedding away from the formal album shots.
Hope you can find work experience officially.
At the few weddings I've done, I found it very distracting to have other people running around playing photographer. Especially during posed family photos! I'll be there, ready to shoot, everything set up, and someone will be clicking away over my shoulder, so you'll have all 6 or so family members looking at different people with different cameras. I had to get loud and bossy at one wedding and remind people to look at MY camera. That's why I hate formal stuff... I'm much more into the candid stuff that everyone tends to ignore.
So it's not paranoia, it's the distraction and disruption to my work flow. And having to explain "well, sorry, but you had 15 guests there with cameras as well, so that's why everyone in this family shot is looking at a different place" isn't fun, either.
It's just not weddings, either. On some magazine shoots I've done other people will cameras had to be told to put them away. Couldn't have people leaking photos onto Facebook, because then that'd ruin the whole idea of having the car on a cover. Not to mention it's annoying to set up a ton of lights and then have people running around with their point and shoots, accidentally setting off the strobes...
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A little precious if you ask me!
They shouldn't have mentioned it to the photographer... you could just be an enthusiastic guest. The couple shouldn't mind considering they're going to get more pics out of it. I know I'd allow it at mine.
I hope you find more soon! And hopefully ones without whiney photographers. :)
yepp photogs are for the most part super narotic parinod ppl who think everyone with camera is out to get them...
goto the wedding, pack your camera, don't take the same shoots he is taking, rather take the other 99% of guest he will ignore because they are not on the 'must' have list of wedding photos... get the old uncle with the young kids, ect... you still get practice at an event... setting up ppl ect... than give your photos away if that is what you are wanting to do... than when the next wedding comes up you have some samples to show the photog as to why you should/can work with them....
I would suggest requesting from seasoned wedding photographers to shadow their shoot. They will have more connections to weddings in your area so more opportunities to learn the tricks of the trade. Ask if they will view your shots at the end of the day and give you tips on how to improve.
Good Luck!
Now its another story if you line it up with the tog him/herself...but I completely understand why the tog said no. Its not about being paranoid imo, its about doing the best job one can do, I've seen how guests take their DSLR's to weddings, and the bridal party and guests often mistake them for the pro tog.
If you wanted to become a driving instructor, would you go to a driving instructor down the road and ask him to let you watch how he does it, for free, so you can be competition for his potential future business?
Or a hairdresser, and you asked a local barber if you could sit in and learn the lesson's he's learned, for free, so you can set up in competition?
Business is business, of course he's not going to want you there, and it's not paranoid - it's business.
I'm all for educating fellow photographers, even in my own geographic area. But, I won't do it on a paid job unless the photographer is my assistant, and then they'll be shooting what I'm not shooting, or carrying my stuff, or holding reflectors etc - they will learn by observation and doing, and not by waiting for me to set something up so they can steal the shot.
As has been suggested, get onside with a pro photog and learn that way, rather than have a pro photog's client try to sneak you in, so-to-speak, no matter how innocently.
I was only planning on taking photos at the actual wedding service and the reception, not the posed shots out on location. What I want more, I guess, is experience in the church and reception area; getting the lighting and mood down, and obviously having photos to show potential clients.
What some of you have said about someone potentially "stealing" a photographers shots makes sense, so I'm glad I got your advice.
This wasn't a wedding I was invited to, it was a friend of a friend, so I can't go and be one of the many with an SLR, unfortunately :(
Will keep trying; get some experience at events and then approach an experienced photographer to offer assistance.
Thanks again, everyone!
Volunteer as an apprentice. Do the grunt work. That's how you learn.
Doing weddings for free sounds nice, but when doing so, you are taking someone else's job away that makes their livelihood by it.
Not paranoid, but necessary for survival. I do believe that the prices they charge for their prints are excessive, but they have to earn a living somehow, and with so many people snapping away, their actual income is far less now that it used to be when they could be sure of selling a far greater number of prints at much lower prices.
Are you sure you want to become a professional in this field? It is extremely expensive to set up, and only the very best are likely to survive for much longer.
From some of the replies I've been getting it sounds like a bit of a cut throat industry, and I know I probably wouldn't survive anyway!
Based on what youi said, you might consider what I did once when a friend asked me to photograph his wedding. I did not have the facilities to offer a decent print service but I was on good terms with the leading local wedding photographer and struck a deal with him: I would do the job under my own steam and handle all the print orders and he would do all the processing and give me a generous price reduction for the prints and albums on condition that I did not tell anybody. That way, he made a small profit and I was able to please my friend with a personal service at minimal cost to cover my expenses, and everybody was happy.
One word of advice if you do want to go ahead is to discuss the couple's requirements in advance, whether they want 'the usual' set groups, candid shots, or some of the special poses or spectacular effects they have seen elsewhere, and only accept the job if you are sure you can deliver.
If you try it, like it,and do well,go for it!You must try.
May the photographer are just afraid to have someone who will appear in his bride and groom shot with a camera ,just don't want take the risk,at end he don't know you.
You should look for a photographer in need of a assistant.Thanks God there's lots of professionals,who are confident in their talents, their market and happy in give to you a helping hand to receive it back.
Open a space in a market is difficult in all fields,require time, invest and study.
In photography I perceived that discover your own style,and apply it where is more profitable seems to be the point isn't?
So, go for it!
Hugs
I have often thought of doing the same as you, but I now see some of the trip wires. However, I'd keep trying until you get lucky. Good luck.
talk to local photographers, offer to help out, chances are you will be able to find a photog that you can help and learn from. go to the photog in person though, it will probably improve chances. sending an email text or phone call will prob not help too much.
However, as a happy clicker .... I often take the candid shots, the moment when there's a natural laugh or delightful expression that no one else is looking for ... those are the photographs that will give much pleasure as they illustrate the other dimension of the wedding away from the formal album shots.
Hope you can find work experience officially.
So it's not paranoia, it's the distraction and disruption to my work flow. And having to explain "well, sorry, but you had 15 guests there with cameras as well, so that's why everyone in this family shot is looking at a different place" isn't fun, either.
It's just not weddings, either. On some magazine shoots I've done other people will cameras had to be told to put them away. Couldn't have people leaking photos onto Facebook, because then that'd ruin the whole idea of having the car on a cover. Not to mention it's annoying to set up a ton of lights and then have people running around with their point and shoots, accidentally setting off the strobes...