Interesting read and I agree. I suck and I need people to tell me that more often. I often prefer harsh criticism over praise... although a few nice words still soothes the ego. And I'm somewhat conservative in offering praise and I would be more keen on giving criticism if it was socially acceptable.
I'm sure there are plenty of sites/forums/etc. out there where harsh criticism and criticism in general are more the focus than the norm. This (as in 365) just doesn't happen to be one of them. ;)
And I'm quite sure I suck a lot - but I'm working on my suckage, so that's okay.
ETA: This quote at the end was pretty damn awesome, I might add it to my profile. "Not sucking is worth the effort. Seek out great photography. Devour it, and be suspicious of any undue praise."
I think my photos suck too. I usually end up deleting my images after awhile. Sometimes I wish I would have saved them just to see my progression/de-progression.
I don't think the article was attacking the lack of criticism but the ease at which people give "meaningless praise". I understand that it is good to encourage people in their progress as a photographer but I find that it is very easy for people to get over-inflated egos. I've read articles with similar criticism and seen it happen. Photographers that has been praised too much by their family & friends or on Flickr and then they decide to start a business based on this "illusion of greatness". They become weekend wedding photographers and compete on price thus providing a mediocre product (if they are lucky) or get drunk during the reception and provide less than mediocre images. Or they put up a web page offering portraits and such and claim they only shoot with "natural available lighting" because it's the best form of lighting, where the reality is that they don't have access too or are too lazy/cheap to learn how to use flash lighting.
@davetom Oh no, dude, believe me, you are preaching to the choir on this one. :) I agree in full. I have a family friend who has thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of cameras, lighting equipment, and lenses - and is the single worst photographer I've ever met. Nobody wants to hurt her feelings and tell her, though, so it just sort of keeps going on and on. Her 'business' hasn't taken off like she thought it would, and she doesn't understand it when the family is reluctant to come over and pose for photos. It's kind of sad. :(
@snaggleture I delete a lot of things. I try to leave up some sort of progression, so I can see how things have (or have not) improved, but, yeah, I hate most of what I shoot. :) I just try to convert that into the energy and desire to get better - some days it works, some days it doesn't. :)
@grecican TWSS. Wait, no, that doesn't work. Never mind.
At the moment I am encouraged by positive comments on my photos and people here are very kind and supportive so it's making me more enthusiastic. There is a point though when I think I would like critiques (other than my husband!!), it would be good to discuss photos but I don't go to a class or anything, so I don't really know if my photos are anything better than 'nice'!! I suppose I could ask for critiques here - I think I can take it!?
@davetom agreed, just because you point a camera at something doesnt' mean it's a great photo.
We're all at different places in our photography, some of us are mourning the loss of the dream we had to shoot war zones for nat geo, others are just starting to think they could.
Humans like getting praise, which is why I always try to include something of what's right in a photo, along with tips on how to grow from there. Very rarely will you see me post just 'nice photo' without also including something about ISO, spot metering, or recomposition. I learned quick enough those that really don't want to hear anything but praise for their P&S style pics shot with overpriced slrs and just don't bother trying anymore.
Do I wish I'd get more on my photos? yep, but in a kind way, not everyone responds well to you did XYZ wrong this all sucks you should just give up now because of how much you suck. I know my childhood dreams over but I can still enjoy some of the process even if other things are more demanding on my time than photography.
@beautifulthing Ah that's a waste of equipment. Ship it over I'm sure I could do something with it! No chance of someone getting her a book as a gift? Everyone publishes books these days, get her one on portraiture and leave it on her doorstep!
I for one think there is way too much hype on who is fair good or great. I have seen many photos that are by (great) people and to be honest I just don't get it. I would pit some of my shots up against anyone. No I don't consider myself as a great photographer, but I do consider myself as a photographer that please some very important people, that includes me, and the people that appreciate my efforts. To the rest, I don't really care, I take photos not to please the majority of people all the time, or even part of the time, I take them to please myself, to capture what I see at the moment for a memory. If it was all and only for the compitition of it, the fun would be gone for me. I don't take pictures and then feel I have to photoshop chop to make them (better). If what is there isn't good enough to stand on it's own, why take it? For anyone to tell me that my photos suck is rude and unacceptable,
if I like it I keep it and show it, if I don't like it I delete it and continue on. If someone that looks at it and doesn't like it that is their choice, get over it and look at someone elses picture that you are qualified to disslike and pick apart, because you must know that you could do better, that is until a different (qualified) person looks at your work and picks it apart. I guess I have rambled on enough. If I have offended anyone I am sorry, but this is my story and I am sticking to it
Hmmm, I find both positive and negative feedback equally helpful. Like when someone points out exactly what aspect of my shot it is that they like (looking back on a few shots I can see that it might have been the only honest and kind thing they could find to say about that particular shot). That's helpful when I'm looking to improve aspects of my photography, which I always am.
And negative feedback is perhaps the wrong term - I meant constructive criticism, of course. I appreciate that like mad.
The meaningless praise is just that, meaningless. But I'm guilty of it myself. Not that the shot is horrific, or even bad, but sometimes I find the area of inspiration I appear to be lacking in is my commenting. So sometimes all I have to give is a "Beautiful shot!" or "so cool!".
As far as that article - I find the tip about paying attention to the little things - such as shutter speed or aperture - when admiring others work - to be great advice. I've come across a few people on here who say that all the technical know how in the world isn't going to make you a better photographer. Yes it is!!!! Especially if you suck at the technical stuff. Which everyone does at the beginning. So yes, check the exif info, take notes, and try to replicate. You may fail abysmally, but it's the only way you're going to get better:)
I'm new to 365. I'm not even going to read the article, cause I don't care if I suck. I take photos cause I like taking photos, and I like a lot of what I take. I don't do it for profit, and never will, I do it for fun.
There are an amazing lot of people on the site who are experienced and talented, who are more than happy to critique your pics if you ask them.
I love getting comments on my pics, wether it be a "nice capture " or more detailed comment, or some tips on how I could have made it better.
If a photo gets lots of comments or gets faved, I even get an over inflated ego for a second or two, but that doesn't make me want to rush out and start my own business ........it just makes me want to keep taking photos @beautifulthing
Thank you for that comment about this site @snaggleture
I hope you're not deleting from your 365 albums, I love looking at your pics @neda Well said
well - my goal is to get to the point where i don't suck... ;p and yeah, i would rather have 15 comments on a photo with suggestions as to how i could have done better, or even just what doesn't work with it, over 3 or 4 comments saying it's nice... i get more views than comments, so i have to assume that the remaining views are, at least in part, from those who think the photo doesn't work... i can understand that no one has the time to comment on every photo they look at... but if people aren't commenting because they don't want to say something that is negative, well - i would rather have that negative comment than none... that said, i look at photos that i don't think work... but then i think: "who am i to say that to someone who has been working on their skills way longer than i?"... so i guess it isn't really fair to criticize others for not giving me constructive criticism...
Makes me wonder whether my photos suck... I've been having an emo week... xD Just starting a photography business now - and wondering if my business hopes and aspirations are all due to an overinflated ego... xD
yes i suck. everyone sucks sometimes. other times we are awesome. once i saw an exhibit of robert frank's work at the NGA and had on display some of his contact sheets. damn, some of those photos on those contact sheets really sucked. but he had some AMAZING work too.
we are all going to suck, not every image is going to be good. your mom won't even want hang some of your shittiest work on her fridge!
but, we learn, grow, and most of us here are shooting every day. so chances are we'll have more and more beauties along the way too.
@pocketmouse Hey as long as it sells! :) ... Not thats it rubbish though !
But if you really wanna compare your work to see if it sucks, check out 500px.com. The work on there pisses over most of the work 365! On the basis there are a lot of mediocre shots on this site of daily doings. I think people need to remember this site is for documenting a year in your like AS WELL as plugging your work. So help to encourage people along, so you're going to get a lot of "nice shot" , "great composition" etcetera.
Like most of you, my ego does appreciate the praise; though comparatively I know I suck much of the time. Knowing this, I will probably NEVER critique another's photo on this site because after all, who the hell am I to give criticism if I can't even get it right. It just seems so egotistical to publish a negative review if your own house isn't in order, and mine's a MESS! :)
Is this the end of the queue for "self loathing society"? I suck too but every once in a while I surprise myself and do something wonderful that inspires me to keep going.
If I like something I will say - that is easy but I don't have the expertise to claim to be able to tell others what they should do.
If I like or dislike I will tell you why.......from my appreciation nothing technical though. You guys are all amazing - don't be so hard on yourselves.
I think that a person needs good constructive criticism to rally learn and improve at anything they do but with must come praise for the things that they are doing well
I never claimed to be a good photographer and agree most of the time that I suck. I am hoping between going to school for photography and the critiques on this site, I will some day be able to say, I like my work and that I am a decent photographer Until then I am still trying not to suck.
I know a lot of my photos suck, but then I've never claimed to be a photographer. As a newbie to 365 I appreciate the challenge and community here, and I enjoy seeing photos taken by both professionals and those like me who are just dabbling.
the day you can look at all your shots and think, none of them suck..is they day you need new glasses and a brain overhaul. The best photographers in the world will take shots that suck. We don't see them because nobody buys them.
A lot of mine are rubbish, but at least they are less rubbishy than they were before.
Awful title for an article: if he was self-critical rather than critical of others I might have read the unattractive piece. Who wants to hear a sermon when the preacher says YOU are sucking sinners rather than WE are ... Poor writer.
I freely admit that I suck! I have to take 1000 photos to get a couple of good ones. Or rather, a couple of mediocre ones. Every few days of taking 1000 photos I might get a good one. This is why I love my digital camera :D What I like about 365 is that it forces me to go through that process every day (well, ok, I don't take thousands every day, but often hundreds) so that I'll end up with some photos I can be proud of after a year.
@davetom I started adding critique me to the tags in my photos, because lets face it, how am I supposed to improve if I don't know what I'm doing wrong, right? But suddenly this statement makes me a little worried. " and I would be more keen on giving criticism if it was socially acceptable." lol. Not that I wouldn't want the input, I absolutely would/do! But I forget sometimes to leave my emotions out of it and turn into a sobbing mess because someone didn't think my 900th shot of my kid sleeping was perfection.
I figure if we're asking for your input then we should be thankful for what we get, no matter how harsh it may seem. ... um..... then I forgot my point.
i think it's good frame of mind to constantly remind yourself that you're never as good as you can be.
i recall in an interview Richard Avedon was discussing his photo below and said he will always see that as a failure because ribbon on the lady's outfit wasn't blowing to one side or something.
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And I'm quite sure I suck a lot - but I'm working on my suckage, so that's okay.
ETA: This quote at the end was pretty damn awesome, I might add it to my profile. "Not sucking is worth the effort. Seek out great photography. Devour it, and be suspicious of any undue praise."
@beautifulthing :D
I don't think the article was attacking the lack of criticism but the ease at which people give "meaningless praise". I understand that it is good to encourage people in their progress as a photographer but I find that it is very easy for people to get over-inflated egos. I've read articles with similar criticism and seen it happen. Photographers that has been praised too much by their family & friends or on Flickr and then they decide to start a business based on this "illusion of greatness". They become weekend wedding photographers and compete on price thus providing a mediocre product (if they are lucky) or get drunk during the reception and provide less than mediocre images. Or they put up a web page offering portraits and such and claim they only shoot with "natural available lighting" because it's the best form of lighting, where the reality is that they don't have access too or are too lazy/cheap to learn how to use flash lighting.
I don't know why I'm ranting today.
@grecican TWSS. Wait, no, that doesn't work. Never mind.
I've managed to get some pretty good critiques (and by good I mean they absolutely destroyed me) on deviantArt though.
@grecican you suck too ;-)
We're all at different places in our photography, some of us are mourning the loss of the dream we had to shoot war zones for nat geo, others are just starting to think they could.
Humans like getting praise, which is why I always try to include something of what's right in a photo, along with tips on how to grow from there. Very rarely will you see me post just 'nice photo' without also including something about ISO, spot metering, or recomposition. I learned quick enough those that really don't want to hear anything but praise for their P&S style pics shot with overpriced slrs and just don't bother trying anymore.
Do I wish I'd get more on my photos? yep, but in a kind way, not everyone responds well to you did XYZ wrong this all sucks you should just give up now because of how much you suck. I know my childhood dreams over but I can still enjoy some of the process even if other things are more demanding on my time than photography.
@beautifulthing Ah that's a waste of equipment. Ship it over I'm sure I could do something with it! No chance of someone getting her a book as a gift? Everyone publishes books these days, get her one on portraiture and leave it on her doorstep!
if I like it I keep it and show it, if I don't like it I delete it and continue on. If someone that looks at it and doesn't like it that is their choice, get over it and look at someone elses picture that you are qualified to disslike and pick apart, because you must know that you could do better, that is until a different (qualified) person looks at your work and picks it apart. I guess I have rambled on enough. If I have offended anyone I am sorry, but this is my story and I am sticking to it
And negative feedback is perhaps the wrong term - I meant constructive criticism, of course. I appreciate that like mad.
The meaningless praise is just that, meaningless. But I'm guilty of it myself. Not that the shot is horrific, or even bad, but sometimes I find the area of inspiration I appear to be lacking in is my commenting. So sometimes all I have to give is a "Beautiful shot!" or "so cool!".
As far as that article - I find the tip about paying attention to the little things - such as shutter speed or aperture - when admiring others work - to be great advice. I've come across a few people on here who say that all the technical know how in the world isn't going to make you a better photographer. Yes it is!!!! Especially if you suck at the technical stuff. Which everyone does at the beginning. So yes, check the exif info, take notes, and try to replicate. You may fail abysmally, but it's the only way you're going to get better:)
There are an amazing lot of people on the site who are experienced and talented, who are more than happy to critique your pics if you ask them.
I love getting comments on my pics, wether it be a "nice capture " or more detailed comment, or some tips on how I could have made it better.
If a photo gets lots of comments or gets faved, I even get an over inflated ego for a second or two, but that doesn't make me want to rush out and start my own business ........it just makes me want to keep taking photos
@beautifulthing
Thank you for that comment about this site
@snaggleture
I hope you're not deleting from your 365 albums, I love looking at your pics
@neda Well said
And you know, if you think you don't suck (at least, from time to time), you're probably not really a photographer.
we are all going to suck, not every image is going to be good. your mom won't even want hang some of your shittiest work on her fridge!
but, we learn, grow, and most of us here are shooting every day. so chances are we'll have more and more beauties along the way too.
hehehe
But if you really wanna compare your work to see if it sucks, check out 500px.com. The work on there pisses over most of the work 365! On the basis there are a lot of mediocre shots on this site of daily doings. I think people need to remember this site is for documenting a year in your like AS WELL as plugging your work. So help to encourage people along, so you're going to get a lot of "nice shot" , "great composition" etcetera.
@jinximages Amen to those words
Meh what do I care ;-)
If I like something I will say - that is easy but I don't have the expertise to claim to be able to tell others what they should do.
If I like or dislike I will tell you why.......from my appreciation nothing technical though. You guys are all amazing - don't be so hard on yourselves.
@pwallis Yea, we may as well all. We're doomed.
A lot of mine are rubbish, but at least they are less rubbishy than they were before.
That's like saying learning how to read music won't make you a better pianist. What it won't do is make you a better artist.
I figure if we're asking for your input then we should be thankful for what we get, no matter how harsh it may seem. ... um..... then I forgot my point.
Look! A baby!
i recall in an interview Richard Avedon was discussing his photo below and said he will always see that as a failure because ribbon on the lady's outfit wasn't blowing to one side or something.