Has anyone run across people in your life that don't take your photography seriously? Photography is just a hobby for me but I have a lot of fun doing it. Not to toot my own horn but I think I am pretty decent at it, too. Everyone knows I do it. So it isn't some big secret. And it could quite possibly be something more in the future.
I had a conversation with a friend(ok. She is actually my best friend) and she was telling me how she was saving up to have a photo shoot with a photographer in our area.
I was pretty hurt. offended?! I don't know but it just rubbed me the wrong way.
Has this happened to anyone else? I mean there is nothing really to do about it but gosh that really made me feel like I wasn't good enough.
It happens to us all. I have a great friend who would much rather go to Sears than me, but it's OK. Not everyone likes art, some just like the cold traditional.
What I do with my friends is just constantly tell them I will take their photos for a low price..even when I just need a model, I do it for free and give them the photos. Once they see what you can do when you take a photo of them, they might change their mind. Or if they see portraits you have done of people you mutually know, they might want to get their photo taken.
That being said, I have friends that are in bands that have told me they can't use my services because they can't afford my already really low price. So they have somebody with a point-and-shoot take photos for them and then do fancy editing. I also have friends that hire more professional people for baby photos and wedding photos. I think sometimes my photos can come off as too artsy?? I don't know. Sometimes people just want that boring, look straight at the camera, portrait of themselves. I wouldn't take much offense. Just offer your services to your friends more.
I've been offended in this way, but not about my photography (since I'm a newbie and I know it). I think sometimes parents and friends see you in one way, and don't want to or can't see you evolving.
Maybe she feels awkward asking it of you because of money - if you charge too much, she'll be offended and if you don't charge at all, she won't take you seriously.
Does your friend know specifically that this is something you would like to do? I know many folks who are amazing amatuer photographers, but the only one I would approach for portraits is the one who has specifically told me that she hopes to do it professionally some day, and would I consider lending my kids so that she can practice and build up her portfolio.
Do you have full body portraits to show her? Looking through your album I only see one. I see lots of head shots. Could it be that is what she is seeing also? It would be hard to judge someones work unless there is something to see beforehand. Maybe you could start with her and see where it takes you.
I was asked once by a friend to photograph her wedding, discovered later at the reception that I had forgotten to remove the lens cap... Suffice it to say I've never been asked since, it really does sting a little!
@meggageg I have the opposite problem. Unlike yourself, I'm not a very talented photographer, PARTICULARLY when it comes to taking photos of people. Yet loads of my friends have asked me to do their photos (I think they are impressed by the fact that i have a 'big' camera lol). Although thinking about it, no one who I have done them for have ever come back for more... :-$
My friends know I take photos but I guess it seriously doesn't offend me if they get photos done elsewhere. I'm busy, I have a life, c'est la vie. Maybe that's the 40-something view on the situation as opposed to the 20-something view, but I really wouldn't take it personally. Maybe she just feels comfortable with a stranger taking her photo rather than someone she knows.
@clarissajohal She told me it wasn't like that at all. If she did her own hair and make up(were both cosmetologists) she would be too tired to do pictures and she was said that this could be a great learning experience for me from a real photographer...
@meggageg I don't think your friend sees what the rest of us see in your pics!
Maybe you could just ask her if you could take the photos of her that she wants anyway, for your portfolio rather than for her needs...if she still wants to pay for a photographer then fine, but get her to compare the two sets of pics afterwards. If yours come out better, then maybe her future photography needs will be channelled towards you...:) Sometimes people need to be able to compare and have it in front of their face!
And who the hell gets hair and make up done in a photographers' anyway?! Unless they own a salon on the side?!
Firstly - yes. I've had friends rave about my photography and then go directly to the competition because "they're cheaper", and then spend the same amount of money anyway, and then complain that the photos of their new baby are crap, and that they should have used me. Well, duh! I just listen and nod.
Yesterday I opened up the newspaper to find my images being used to advertise another photographer (in conjunction with a current client of mine). That would normally be grounds for me making some very angry telephone calls, but it gets funnier - I'm credited on the photos! There's a bit of a story to it, but I'll leave it there because I'll stray too far off topic.
So, yes, even as a professional photographer, this happens to me.
Now for why I'm confused.
You are not, if I'm reading correctly, a professional photographer. But, the photographer your friend wants to hire, is a professional photographer?
Let me put it another way. I love photos. Passionately. That's probably a given, taking into account what I get paid to do. I also have some great friends who are mad-keen hobbyist photographers - some of them very good. But, were I getting married (for example), and being that I love photos so much, do you think I would offer the job to one of my hobbyist friends? The short answer is "No!" The slightly longer answer is, "Hell no!" I would hire the professional photographer whose work I adore and want on my wall for the rest of my life. And no - I wouldn't be worried about hurting someone's feelings. Unless my hobbyist friend produced work I like more (and for the genre, I might add), I'd be hiring the pro. And, not forgetting I have access to all the wonderful industry products available - if I was not a photographer, running my own studio, I wouldn't have that access. That means that, even if my hobbyist friend was a brilliant photographer with wedding experience, I wouldn't be able to obtain the kinds of albums etc that I'd want unless I used the pro.
Now, ignoring the "pro" versus "hobbyist" side of things, you still have to consider if your work is somehow different to that of the photog your friend wants to hire. Photography is art. Art is subjective. I love Monet. But also, I love Edvard Munch. I don't think it would be particularly wrong of me to have both artists' work displayed in my home - both for different reasons of my own taste in art, and aesthetics in regards to how I planned to "use" that art for decorating my home. You can't let yourself get annoyed just because your friend likes the work of some other photographer! It doesn't mean they don't value what you do (remembering, though, that you are a hobbyist), but if they have something particular in mind that, at least in their mind, the other photographer is "right" for - why shouldn't they hire them instead of you?
Photography is such a personal thing, to the photographer and to the subject/client. It is also a highly accessible activity now, which means far less respect (even for the professionals) because people think they are all capable of reproducing the work of Ansel Adams. Be proud of your work Meagan - you are good at it - but don't expect others to value it like you do, or even like some others do. The less you worry about what others think, and do (and who they decide to hire) the more confident and happy you'll be.
I think you are brilliantly creative in your photography. If she's as good a friend as you say, perhaps you should just ask her why she doesn't want you to do it.
I get that too! The other day I said to my friend that I have to work tomorrow and she looked at me like it was a joke. I said I had a couple pictures to take and she laughed like it wasn't classified as work. I love taking pictures so it doesn't feel like work but still, it's my job and I take it seriously. My photos are published so I don't know how much more she expects or thinks I should do? I'm so glad that I don't need her validation on what I do with my life! Sheesh...
I have a rule-of-thumb: turning a friend into a client is usually a big mistake. There are just too many sensitivities involved. Its a potential minefield. So you're fine not landing that piece of business. I usually find I can afford to lose clients; I just can't afford losing friends.
Turning a client into a friend, however, is quite alright.
On the same sort of lines quite a few people I know randomly scream genius! or something similar at photos I wouldn't call the best, no rhyme or reason...
there is also this thing where non artsypeople or non photographers understand, or see the beauty in our photos, i take a picture of a blade of grass with water drops and my mom thinks i'm silly but other photos i'm not to proud about, she absolutely loves, i think it depends on the person, maybe your style doesn't match hers?
@meggageg I can totally relate. My family knows how much I enjoy photography and everytime I mention it in a converstion they really don't show to much interest
@meggageg I just took a look at a few of yur shots. You do great work. Keep it up. I am looking forward to following you and seeing what you come up with
@meggageg : I would even pay to have my photograph taken by you ;)!!! I love your work :). My photography is not taken very seriously at all, apart from on here. I think if I didn't have the support I have here, I would never put in as much work and enthusiasm. Of course, I'm doing this for myself but it sure is nice to hear a bit of praise every now and then. My best friend actually looks at my pictures every day but she's the only one of my friends. I normally force my husband to do the same but he always says my pictures are edited too much and keeps critizising them which really hurts me. I know they are not perfect but I think some of them are decent at least :). One friend has actually asked me for a photoshoot though and I'm still a bit scared of it because I have hardly any practice in portraits (except selfies ;)) and she keeps complaining about the last photoshoot another friend did and how ugly the pictures were. So I'll see. But don't you worry, Meagan, you're awesome ;)!
I was going to type a lengthy response but then I read @jinximages and thought otherwise! Succinctly put, as always.
I would add that although you do decentwork, there isn't much in the way of portraiture in your portfolio (not counting the selfies). I'd want to see what you could do beforehand.
Also, like me you're a competent ameteur but I still see a difference in quality between my work and some pros' work - to a certain degree it's my technique that could still improve, but more so is my directional ability. Pros are experienced and comfortable in providing instructions to their subjects, whereas I still struggle sometimes.
if you really want her to give you a shot and see what you can do, why not try either showing her your photos on here and "accidentally" scrolling down to all the great comments on your work haha, orrr ask her if she's interested in like a trial run? just a little shoot or preview of the kind of thing she wants done, and if she still wants to go to a pro after that then it is probably more just artistic differences instead of not taking you seriously?
I can relate with you. I just started getting paid for my photography. I've recently learned that it's very hard to work with 'friends'. They expect you not to charge them. and even if you only charge them for prints, they want more. Here's my advice, if you'll have it.
1. You ARE good. Don't let anyone, or anything that happens tell you otherwise. As long as you believe in yourself, well that's all that matters. It will show in your work.
2. Don't work for free. Before I really had my business going, I offered a few people free photoshoots. No one took me seriously, and it was discouraging. Let them ask you.
3. If you find yourself working with friends: let them know beforehand EXACTLY what to expect. I send my friends an email. Reading it seems to seep in better. For example tell them: (when, where, what to wear) Since we're friends I want to waive the sitting fee, or give you a discount on the proof disc, etc. And I expect you to pay for any prints you order (offer price list).
I even tell my friends that all my photos are copyrighted (and watermarked till they order prints). I've found that the more you tell them upfront, the less drama can come up later.
Stick to your guns, girlfriend. Believe in yourself and your work. You said it best: Don't give yourself an excuse to quit.
PS I know you aren't quitting. You're too good. I just thought that would be a good thing to say to lift your spirit. Ha. I really loved when you said that!
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That being said, I have friends that are in bands that have told me they can't use my services because they can't afford my already really low price. So they have somebody with a point-and-shoot take photos for them and then do fancy editing. I also have friends that hire more professional people for baby photos and wedding photos. I think sometimes my photos can come off as too artsy?? I don't know. Sometimes people just want that boring, look straight at the camera, portrait of themselves. I wouldn't take much offense. Just offer your services to your friends more.
I might understand if it was ANYONE else but seriously my freakin best friend?!
I'd suggest just talking to her...
I think thats why I'm offended. I'm perfectly capable in her eyes to take head shots but not something more.
Wait, so what exactly does she want?
Um, should I take even more offense because I'm a cosmetologist? LOL?!
This must be revenge.
JOKE.
Maybe you could just ask her if you could take the photos of her that she wants anyway, for your portfolio rather than for her needs...if she still wants to pay for a photographer then fine, but get her to compare the two sets of pics afterwards. If yours come out better, then maybe her future photography needs will be channelled towards you...:) Sometimes people need to be able to compare and have it in front of their face!
And who the hell gets hair and make up done in a photographers' anyway?! Unless they own a salon on the side?!
Firstly - yes. I've had friends rave about my photography and then go directly to the competition because "they're cheaper", and then spend the same amount of money anyway, and then complain that the photos of their new baby are crap, and that they should have used me. Well, duh! I just listen and nod.
Yesterday I opened up the newspaper to find my images being used to advertise another photographer (in conjunction with a current client of mine). That would normally be grounds for me making some very angry telephone calls, but it gets funnier - I'm credited on the photos! There's a bit of a story to it, but I'll leave it there because I'll stray too far off topic.
So, yes, even as a professional photographer, this happens to me.
Now for why I'm confused.
You are not, if I'm reading correctly, a professional photographer. But, the photographer your friend wants to hire, is a professional photographer?
Let me put it another way. I love photos. Passionately. That's probably a given, taking into account what I get paid to do. I also have some great friends who are mad-keen hobbyist photographers - some of them very good. But, were I getting married (for example), and being that I love photos so much, do you think I would offer the job to one of my hobbyist friends? The short answer is "No!" The slightly longer answer is, "Hell no!" I would hire the professional photographer whose work I adore and want on my wall for the rest of my life. And no - I wouldn't be worried about hurting someone's feelings. Unless my hobbyist friend produced work I like more (and for the genre, I might add), I'd be hiring the pro. And, not forgetting I have access to all the wonderful industry products available - if I was not a photographer, running my own studio, I wouldn't have that access. That means that, even if my hobbyist friend was a brilliant photographer with wedding experience, I wouldn't be able to obtain the kinds of albums etc that I'd want unless I used the pro.
Now, ignoring the "pro" versus "hobbyist" side of things, you still have to consider if your work is somehow different to that of the photog your friend wants to hire. Photography is art. Art is subjective. I love Monet. But also, I love Edvard Munch. I don't think it would be particularly wrong of me to have both artists' work displayed in my home - both for different reasons of my own taste in art, and aesthetics in regards to how I planned to "use" that art for decorating my home. You can't let yourself get annoyed just because your friend likes the work of some other photographer! It doesn't mean they don't value what you do (remembering, though, that you are a hobbyist), but if they have something particular in mind that, at least in their mind, the other photographer is "right" for - why shouldn't they hire them instead of you?
Photography is such a personal thing, to the photographer and to the subject/client. It is also a highly accessible activity now, which means far less respect (even for the professionals) because people think they are all capable of reproducing the work of Ansel Adams. Be proud of your work Meagan - you are good at it - but don't expect others to value it like you do, or even like some others do. The less you worry about what others think, and do (and who they decide to hire) the more confident and happy you'll be.
Just my two cents.
Turning a client into a friend, however, is quite alright.
you are very good at this, just remember that.
I was going to type a lengthy response but then I read @jinximages and thought otherwise! Succinctly put, as always.
I would add that although you do decentwork, there isn't much in the way of portraiture in your portfolio (not counting the selfies). I'd want to see what you could do beforehand.
Also, like me you're a competent ameteur but I still see a difference in quality between my work and some pros' work - to a certain degree it's my technique that could still improve, but more so is my directional ability. Pros are experienced and comfortable in providing instructions to their subjects, whereas I still struggle sometimes.
1. You ARE good. Don't let anyone, or anything that happens tell you otherwise. As long as you believe in yourself, well that's all that matters. It will show in your work.
2. Don't work for free. Before I really had my business going, I offered a few people free photoshoots. No one took me seriously, and it was discouraging. Let them ask you.
3. If you find yourself working with friends: let them know beforehand EXACTLY what to expect. I send my friends an email. Reading it seems to seep in better. For example tell them: (when, where, what to wear) Since we're friends I want to waive the sitting fee, or give you a discount on the proof disc, etc. And I expect you to pay for any prints you order (offer price list).
I even tell my friends that all my photos are copyrighted (and watermarked till they order prints). I've found that the more you tell them upfront, the less drama can come up later.
Stick to your guns, girlfriend. Believe in yourself and your work. You said it best: Don't give yourself an excuse to quit.