In June I took my daughters to their first horse show. It was put on by the local fire dept. at the fair grounds. While we were there, of course I took a ton of shots and after processing and uploading them to my site I posted the link on their FB page in case they might want to use any of the shots and received very nice comments. Here's the kicker...
Today I rec'd an email from the organizer of the event....
"Hi my name is XXXXX the manager of the XXXX horse shows. Who hired you to photograph the show? Please let me know as any venders at the show normally make a contribution. Please email me and let me know."
I emailed her back and told her I was not a vender nor hired by anyone. My family and I just moved to this state and we went to watch the show and support our new town and fire dept.
This was her reply a few hours later......
"We have photographers that are hired to do the shows. If you would like to be considered please contact me in the future as it is not fair to have unauthorized photographers selling photos. It takes away from the ones that we hire. Please clear it with me if you are planning on shooting and selling photos at the fire co shows. Thank you."
I have never been contacted before so I am kind of taken back, especially being I was at an event open to the public. And P.S. there was NO photographers there that day except for the happy moms with her POS and camera phones watching their girls ride. How do I respond back to this?
from her reply she seems to think that you are taking photos to sell I would send back a letter thanking her for thinking your shots are worthy of being categorised as professional but state categorically that the photos taken are not being sold but were taken for your personal benefit, you can cite other members of the public with P&S cameras that have not been treated in a similar way, obviously there was no signage to state that photographs could not be taken otherwise there would not be so many people taking photos, thats the basics a bit of embelishment and you should be fine :D just remember you are not the one in the wrong
I'll preface this by saying that I'm not a lawyer, and no legal advice is intended or implied with the following.
Public events are just that, public. Unless there is a "no photographic devices permitted" rule as are often displayed (and routinely ignored with cell phone camera, etc.) at concerts, museum exhibits, etc. you have every right to shot at an event. The fact that your equipment, technique, and results are better than they are used to does not change this.
While pictures of events are pretty much fair game, I think things enter a grey area if there are shots of individuals, especially spectators. Assuming the pictures are of the event and competitors, I don't see anything wrong with it.
It doesn't sound to me like you were selling photos, only sharing what you captured at the event, so I guess I would respond to the last email with one final gratious reply and then leave it at that.
From your profile, I don't notice that you are a professional photographer, so maybe something like, "I'm flattered that you appreciated the quality of the photos I took while attending your recent event with my family. My intention when sharing the results was not to profit, but mearly to share our enjoyment of the horse show. As I enjoy photography, I will likely take photos at future events that I attend, but per your request will not share them on your public site. I reserve the right to share them with others using common social media" or some similar wording that lets you post things here/facebook/photobucket/whatever.
If you are a professional or want to start, you could add/change to something like "if you are interested in hiring me for future events, let me know. My standard donation/pass through (don't know the right term as I don't do this) is 10-20% (or whatever) of revenue generated".
Thank you for your comments. I am not a professional but I am building a website in hopes that someday someone would want to buy a print. I uploaded those pictures to my "in the works" site but do not have them listed (yet) for sale. I guess I just got my fur up at the thought of 'hey what if I did have them listed for sale' so what, it was a public event, nothing was posted and no one said a word to me even when I stood next to the booth where the organizers sat. I really just want to make sure I didn't do something wrong before I responded.
We just moved to this little town all of 2,000 people and really do not want to ruffle the feathers of the locals. Plus I think it would be cool to be "hired" for the next show :)
I am a journalist not a lawyer but video and pics of places and people is something dealt with almost daily. If you are sure it was on public land then you are free to get shots of anyone you want and do whatever you want with them. The rules get fuzzier if a private group paid to rent out the public space. For example I can take video of whatever I want during the county fair. But when a group pays to rent out a building on county property then they set the rules.
OK...here are a few pointers. There are a few things going on here at once, and I've dealt with them all from both view points.
First of all, if this was a public event on public property, you are free to shoot, sell, and distribute any photos you like. That is a guaranteed right in the United States, though other countries do vary.
Now, here is where it gets trickier. Let me start this off by saying you have done nothing wrong. About two months ago I was hired to shoot the Grand Opening of the SkyWheel Myrtle Beach. Now, this was on private property, but was also easily viewable from the public sidewalks. However, the contract the SkyWheel Myrtle Beach signed with me stated that all areas within viewable range of the ribbon cutting would be off limits to anyone with a DSLR. How can I do this? Because I got city approval to block off public property the same as if I were making a film, hosting a festival, or setting up a vending space. Public property is blocked off all the time for private events. I put this clause into my contract because the last thing I want is to spend a lot of time and effort shooting an event only to have someone undercut me later.
From the sounds of it, the organizers of this event you attended hired a photographer to shoot it. There was probably a similar clause written in their contract. However, it was up to the event organizers to keep those cameras away. If there were no signs, and no one addressed the issue with you, you did nothing wrong. The fault is theirs, and now they are trying to cover their butts.
Thanks @stephlife & @jasonbarnette for replying. Actually I am not sure if it was private or public property. It is on a piece of land that used to be the fire station and they now call the "festival grounds", The old fire house still sits there and they hold many different types of events hosted BY the Fire Dept. I am kind of thinking now maybe it is city or government property??? There were still no signs and no one asked me what I was doing.
She said I could be "considered" to be hired for the next event but she sent me a "sponsorship" form where I pay them. I do not want to rock the boat, we just moved here and might decide to make this our permanent home and I think being hired would help us become involved in the community but again, I am not a professional and never planned on being hired to take photographs so I do not know how that works either. Such a confusing corner I have gotten myself into...lol
@stephd I'd reply as suggested above, explaining that you aren't a pro and flattered to be considered worthy of such role. And leave it at that. Don't give them any more wood to burn. And good for you by the way! xx
I did encounter a fine line at an event once... If the viewers had to pay a seating price or entrance fee The event was considered "private" (photography was limited but not enforced) If the event is free to the public, it is public.
In your case, they may have paid a photog and he complained to the event planners.
You have nothing to worry about.
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Public events are just that, public. Unless there is a "no photographic devices permitted" rule as are often displayed (and routinely ignored with cell phone camera, etc.) at concerts, museum exhibits, etc. you have every right to shot at an event. The fact that your equipment, technique, and results are better than they are used to does not change this.
While pictures of events are pretty much fair game, I think things enter a grey area if there are shots of individuals, especially spectators. Assuming the pictures are of the event and competitors, I don't see anything wrong with it.
It doesn't sound to me like you were selling photos, only sharing what you captured at the event, so I guess I would respond to the last email with one final gratious reply and then leave it at that.
From your profile, I don't notice that you are a professional photographer, so maybe something like, "I'm flattered that you appreciated the quality of the photos I took while attending your recent event with my family. My intention when sharing the results was not to profit, but mearly to share our enjoyment of the horse show. As I enjoy photography, I will likely take photos at future events that I attend, but per your request will not share them on your public site. I reserve the right to share them with others using common social media" or some similar wording that lets you post things here/facebook/photobucket/whatever.
If you are a professional or want to start, you could add/change to something like "if you are interested in hiring me for future events, let me know. My standard donation/pass through (don't know the right term as I don't do this) is 10-20% (or whatever) of revenue generated".
We just moved to this little town all of 2,000 people and really do not want to ruffle the feathers of the locals. Plus I think it would be cool to be "hired" for the next show :)
First of all, if this was a public event on public property, you are free to shoot, sell, and distribute any photos you like. That is a guaranteed right in the United States, though other countries do vary.
Now, here is where it gets trickier. Let me start this off by saying you have done nothing wrong. About two months ago I was hired to shoot the Grand Opening of the SkyWheel Myrtle Beach. Now, this was on private property, but was also easily viewable from the public sidewalks. However, the contract the SkyWheel Myrtle Beach signed with me stated that all areas within viewable range of the ribbon cutting would be off limits to anyone with a DSLR. How can I do this? Because I got city approval to block off public property the same as if I were making a film, hosting a festival, or setting up a vending space. Public property is blocked off all the time for private events. I put this clause into my contract because the last thing I want is to spend a lot of time and effort shooting an event only to have someone undercut me later.
From the sounds of it, the organizers of this event you attended hired a photographer to shoot it. There was probably a similar clause written in their contract. However, it was up to the event organizers to keep those cameras away. If there were no signs, and no one addressed the issue with you, you did nothing wrong. The fault is theirs, and now they are trying to cover their butts.
Does all that make sense?
She said I could be "considered" to be hired for the next event but she sent me a "sponsorship" form where I pay them. I do not want to rock the boat, we just moved here and might decide to make this our permanent home and I think being hired would help us become involved in the community but again, I am not a professional and never planned on being hired to take photographs so I do not know how that works either. Such a confusing corner I have gotten myself into...lol
In your case, they may have paid a photog and he complained to the event planners.
You have nothing to worry about.