Now my snazzy title has your attention, listen closely.
Stop asking, and start giving.
There's been loads of conversations started recently in regards to wanting comment or critique, or worse, followers, and so, I thought I'd try and sum it up here.
I wish I'd read this when I'd started my project instead of trundling along wishing that the mountain would come to Mohammed, so to speak.
Read that? Fab.
Now, my two pence worth.
Firstly, I'm no expert, but I am an avid user, I don't want to offend anyone, and I really hope no-one takes this the wrong way. Mostly, starting conversations asking for critique generally bug people, so you're unlikely to get much of a response. Instead of typing out that thread, spend the time commenting on 10, 20, 40 new photographs. See what's been posted today, see what's being posted right now, comment on 30 of the 187 photographs tagged with the word "lightbulb"..
For most of my first year, I thought that people would just come to me, but when you think about it, how are people meant to notice you unless you're putting yourself out there?
Ask yourself, do you want feedback, or you do want praise? Everyone wants to be told their photos are beautiful, but in the past when I've tried to say "maybe try this, or that" I've mostly been shot down with "well I like it like that"
I've also seen a lot of people critique through the 'critique-me' tag, but be ready for what you get. Commonly, I see images uploaded with no tags at all - how do you expect people to see your shots without tags? I often do a tag search for random words, just to see what other people have done. When you upload your photograph there is an option to add tags, just write them in the box and separate them with commas, like this:
light, dark, day, night, portrait
Many folk on here take beautiful images, but do not themselves feel "qualified" to provide adequate critique, or to give you advice on what does or does not make a good image, and so I suggest this..if you have seen an image you like, or would like to achieve a particular look, or effect, ask the user how they did it. This is a fab community and most will be only too happy to oblige.
Many people, myself included, would rather say nothing at all, than say something which someone could misconstrue or think I'm being overly harsh. People in this community are kind, and don't want to upset anyone.
I have learned you only get out of this site what you put in.I try to comment every day, on stacks of photos, as many as my eyes can humanly view. I'll stalk the latest boards constantly, and I always try and view every page of the 'by day' tab. If I have a few days of not doing that my interaction within the site totally drops off, which is fair enough.
Follow people whose work you love, build relationships, get to know folk and what they're about, learn about people's lives. You'll appreciate their photographs more when you know the background and the tales which go with them. In turn, people will follow back, because they'll want to get to know you too. They'll understand you had a long day at work and posted a crappy photo, but are kind about it anyway. They know you're not around because you're on holiday, but they're excited for you to come back so they can see what you've done, they know about your kids/partner/pets/home and follow them with as much interest as they follow your photographs, and they'll see you grow as a photographer as you continue your project. Comments or followers aside, your project will be a world more rewarding.
Amy, you are so right! I wish I had read this when I first joined and wondered why I got no comments. So very true and it's so much more rewarding when you go and look at other people's work and comment on it and get involved. I'm so glad you posted this Amy @amyamoeba.
Well said Amy and I completely agree. It's not very motivating when you don't get comments but its brilliant when you do and I think this comes and goes. waiting for comments and not commenting on others is just not going to work and I think your idea of getting out there and being part of the community is the best way to go!
@bulldog Actually, my bunnies are responsible :P I shall enjoy my rabbit pie for tea.
Because they're so used to getting their breakfast at 6:00am when I get up, by 7am on a Sunday their stomach thinks their throats have been cut and they get raucous. Who needs children when you've got rabbits :P
Great post: this ought to be flagged up somewhere for reference for the future.
Thanks for mentioning the critique group. It's lovely to be appreciated if you do something good, but sometimes it can be hard to get a response on how you could improve a shot when you know it isn't right, but can't quite figure out why not.
@amyamoeba Well said Amy - I do think some folk pass through the 365 experience un-noticed and it's such a shame. I think 365 is a bit like a big friendly pub, if you go there often and talk to people you'll strike up a relationship and they'll talk back, if you only visit occasionally or don't say much then you won't feel part of it. Does that make sense?
Joining in with the monthly themes is a great way to get involved as folk will often look at the tags to see what other people made of the day's word/colour/etc. I try to return comments for comments.
It's really true that the more you put into it, the more you get out of it.
Most important of all is to enjoy taking and looking at photos!
Its definitely the most useful advice that I was given when I started! Great post, sorry about the cold coffee, but thanks for the time taken to highlight this!
No comments re wrong side, boiling or anything else. Have to say totlally agree with what you say and thanks for the guide which I hadnt read!!! If you dont get involved you wont get anything back, you only need to make a few comments and hey ho of you go. Have to say it does take time which is not an excuse just a fact of this made world. If I may could I add that people should give details in their profile and perhaps where the photo was taken. As people above have said if you give a little you get a lot. Know must carefully get off the soap box and enjoy what looks like being a glorious day.Perhaps will finish with an apt quote"Normally we do not so much look at things as overlook them"-Alan Watts. 365 helps me see!!!!!!
@vokesy@stoat Ha! Yes! It's a Sunday, I require at least 2 cups before I move!
@filsie65 Makes total sense! I love tag stalking to see what loads of people did with the same object :)
@padlock Think thanks go to @shadesofgrey for writing it, who I presume suffered loads of cold coffees in the process. I agree, time is not easy, I actually try to get into the office a little bit early every day so I can have a bit of time ;) Get to browse and looks good for the boss hahah!
@amyamoeba Thank you Amy. I find that when I started I was bumbling around trying to work out how this place works...and what not to do to ensure the ire of some was not directed at me! I remained silent for a long time.
That link is great...I never read that before. Thank you.
I would be a lot easier if important posts and info were "pinned" to some area of this site for newbie 365'ers. It is very time consuming for new people just searching this site let alone taking that photo a day. Threads like this one and the one you linked will always get lost.
Love this post! I think interaction is key on this site. We all get busy and slack at times but one of my favorite parts of the site is chatting in comments and getting to know other people through their and my photos.
I've found myself starting to prune my friends list lately... I find that people who don't interact, regardless of how much I like their photos, I want to drop. When you have 100, 200, 300 etc people that you follow, it takes time to go through and look at people's pics and comment and stuff... If people just come and upload photos, don't reply when you comment on theirs and don't ever visit yours I just think "Meh, ditch 'em".
That's just me of course, as not everyone is here for that kind of interaction... but yeah, the duds gotta go. I don't mean people who don't post on every photo, but rather people who come here, click follow on tons of people to get return followers, upload pics and then never interact. Not my cup of tea, no matter how gorgeous their photos may be.
Anyway, I think I'm bordering on ranty haha In the end yes I love your post. Don't make a post saying "Hey follow me", make yourself a part of the community and let everyone decide on their own if they want to or not. Chances are, if you take part and get involved, they will.
By the time I comment you probably have had four coffees..LOL Just in case though, Mr. Boo put some more on, want another cup?
Got to say I am tag guilty..usually because I forget as the children are shouting for mummy, an essay is waiting to be written or at I am just plain lazy..LOL Will try to do better.
Good advice, like it a lot.
Enjoy the weekend, chill and relax and go look for trolls in the forest (or the sky) :-)
One complaint I"ve had having to do with this subject is the 'Getting Started Guide' is buried way, way, way at the bottom of the screen in small font. No one sees it. These kinds of threads may be a lot less if that was at the top of the screen, where we normally spend our time. At least it would be more noticable.
@amyamoeba thank you Amy. I notice on a few who have many followers now - no longer take the time to say thank u .. or answer queries about how they achieved something.. guess they were only after followers and praise. - takes all sorts. @dmortega - Dorena now that's a great idea is there a way to make them 'sticky' so they always appear in the side bar of the latest/hot topics?
I am trying to comment far more than I used to .. trundling off to the latest posts to see whats there etc. I wish I had more time :-(
@suelaubscher I'm sad to hear that. Especially when it comes t sharing how something is done! I've recently started doing "behind the scenes" photographs, and sometimes they prove more popular than the shot itself :P
Personally, I don't individually thank people, not because I'm not exceptionally grateful, but because I'd rather comment on other shots as kind of, a showing of appreciation?
@amyamoeba - Amy yes I think I saw one or two of those .. its interesting and helpful so keep it up!! @dmortega ah yes Dorrena so it is - a place I tend not to go on wesite its usually T@Cs and site maps .. now I know :-)
@amyamoeba
The words to the song Little bit of love, by Free, are over forty years old but underline your sentiments pretty well I think.......and it still sounds soooo good :)
I believe
If you give
A little bit of love
To those you live with
A little bit of love
Oh oh oh
Has gotta come your way.
Very well said Amy, I think there is a definate advantage starting on Jan 1st as so many do and I think the more seasoned 365ers are looking out for folk then and there's so many people looking for followers and adding friends. I do feel sorry for someone starting about now as a lot of people will have an established group of friends and adding more to the list means less catching up to do. I also just noticed the getting started guide as I never scroll that far down ususally.
Well said....well done! Somehow I had missed that "critique-me" tag option! And I've been on for over a year!!
I also don't thank individually, jsut generally on by photo commentary, but I try and view and comment on every shot of those I follow.
I agree with you completely..I'm already in my fourth year and can't remember when I started out if there even was a list of Hot Discussion, Blogged or even Weekly Themes, etc. I know in those days noone asked to be followed.. we had to work at getting followed. we viewed other peoples pictures, commented on them and gradually stroke up a more personalized conversation. I've made many friends in the early years of which, unfortunately quite a few have dropped out, but I can still go on to their sites at times and read some our comments back and forth and wonder what happened to them. there is one thing I can't understand and that is why some newcomers just click on the follow button (the more the merrier) and having no intentions to either viewing or commenting on the picture of the people they apparently follow. I at least look at their work and comment but with no response from them whatsoever I'll give up and move on to someone else..
When I started out, I responded to every comment I received. That lasted about 4 months until it just became impossible to keep up with. Now, I respond to questions or to those I am really close with and spend more of my time going through other's photos and commenting on them. Obviously I can't give comments to everyone who is following me every day; but I try to be good about finding their best shots of the moment and comment on those.
One mention; if a person is following someone because they (1) want to be followed back or (2) want more comments... they are following for the WRONG reasons. Follow because they have great work (me), are ruggedly handsome (me), or have a smashing sense of humor (again, me). LOL ;-)
@grizzlysghost Oh, Aaron, are you touting for more followers?! Is it not enough that the men want to be you and the women want to be with you *sigh* :P
@amyamoeba oh, you said it all so perfectly..and you don't even sound grouchy! I've admired how persistently and patiently you have instructed people to tag photos "critique-me." Thanks for posting this!
Hilarious Amy...and so true.
Kind of like real life...if you want friends, hang out with people you like and be nice to them...they will probably like you back.
It gets hard to keep up when you follow too many. I don't always follow back right away anymore simply because I can't...but if someone comments I will check out their work and if they comment a lot and I like their work I usually eventually follow them back.
Now I have to go read that introduction and see if I'm doing it right.
@amyamoeba thank you for saying all that. I am relatively new here but I notice that many people don't tag their photos, so you can't search for them, you have to find them by accident. I also think that if you want people to look at your stuff you have to tell them what they are looking at to make it more interesting. A title, a description and lots of tags. @grizzlysghost@aprilmilani lol.
Very nice of you to take the time to post this Amy. And I agree with everything you've said. @suelaubscher I know what you mean. Someone who just started up is following over 2900 member. I asked him how he could possibly view or comment on that many - I don't think he got the question. I think it's just his strategy to get lots of comments and favs. It's working for him so far, but I don't think it will last.
@amyamoeba just thought I seem to get lots of views but no comments. I know some of the shots don't appeal to all but if I look I do leave a comment. Just a thought for all.
@amyamoeba All good information Amy. Thank-you for taking the time to put that together.
I use tags, but only sparingly and have *never* gone past page 1 of the "Photos by Day" page. I'll have to add it to my to-do list.
Great post Amy - thanks for taking the time to write it. This should be linked to the getting started page (though will people find that without this...?)
@amyamoeba Thank you for the mention! I don't normally comment but how could I not here? Many cold coffee's and few cups of melted ice cubes in the evenings. @mercuria@aprilmilani@taz_o I immediately thought of that when I started reading. I'm going to link this discussion within in mine, FWIW. Hopefully the advice will get heeded by those that need it.
Great post Amy. Should help out a lot of people. I guess I think totally different as I personally don't care about followers and getting 30 comments a picture. I do this project just strictly for me and not to see how many people I can get to follow me. I never have much time to comment on a lot of other peoples stuff and I don't expect people to comment on mine and I know I wont get any followers and I am fine with that. Actually prefer it lol. I think some users just try and see how many followers they can get and must spend huge amounts of time commenting on other peoples stuff they don't even like purely just to get followers which to me does no good in improving your photography. I try and follow just the people's work I actually like and that inspires me and not every single person I can just for the sake of getting a million followers. I couldn't imagine following 500 hundred people and trying to look at 300, 400 or 500 pics a day. It just becomes a blur and I would just quit looking. I find if you have a smaller number of people you follow whom you really like their work then for me it is more beneficial as I can get inspired and not overwhelmed with 300 pictures of flowers and skies a day but get photos of subject matter I actually like. But that's the beauty of the project. You can treat it however you like and get out of it what ever you like. If your a newbie and want followers just press follow and comment comment comment and you will reach your goal, if you don't follow and comment on other people you wont get it in return, that simple.
I agree with @nikonizing. Thanks so much for taking the time to write that out!
Very helpful and I loved the last part about how people will understand if you've had a rough day or what not...It's so cool that this place is so friendly and family like :)
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If nothing else, my washing machine stopped at least 15 minutes ago and my coffee is cold haha!
Joking apart, well said Amy, I love your work (and bunnies).
Because they're so used to getting their breakfast at 6:00am when I get up, by 7am on a Sunday their stomach thinks their throats have been cut and they get raucous. Who needs children when you've got rabbits :P
Thanks for mentioning the critique group. It's lovely to be appreciated if you do something good, but sometimes it can be hard to get a response on how you could improve a shot when you know it isn't right, but can't quite figure out why not.
Joining in with the monthly themes is a great way to get involved as folk will often look at the tags to see what other people made of the day's word/colour/etc. I try to return comments for comments.
It's really true that the more you put into it, the more you get out of it.
Most important of all is to enjoy taking and looking at photos!
No comments re wrong side, boiling or anything else. Have to say totlally agree with what you say and thanks for the guide which I hadnt read!!! If you dont get involved you wont get anything back, you only need to make a few comments and hey ho of you go. Have to say it does take time which is not an excuse just a fact of this made world. If I may could I add that people should give details in their profile and perhaps where the photo was taken. As people above have said if you give a little you get a lot. Know must carefully get off the soap box and enjoy what looks like being a glorious day.Perhaps will finish with an apt quote"Normally we do not so much look at things as overlook them"-Alan Watts. 365 helps me see!!!!!!
@filsie65 Makes total sense! I love tag stalking to see what loads of people did with the same object :)
@padlock Think thanks go to @shadesofgrey for writing it, who I presume suffered loads of cold coffees in the process. I agree, time is not easy, I actually try to get into the office a little bit early every day so I can have a bit of time ;) Get to browse and looks good for the boss hahah!
That link is great...I never read that before. Thank you.
I would be a lot easier if important posts and info were "pinned" to some area of this site for newbie 365'ers. It is very time consuming for new people just searching this site let alone taking that photo a day. Threads like this one and the one you linked will always get lost.
I've found myself starting to prune my friends list lately... I find that people who don't interact, regardless of how much I like their photos, I want to drop. When you have 100, 200, 300 etc people that you follow, it takes time to go through and look at people's pics and comment and stuff... If people just come and upload photos, don't reply when you comment on theirs and don't ever visit yours I just think "Meh, ditch 'em".
That's just me of course, as not everyone is here for that kind of interaction... but yeah, the duds gotta go. I don't mean people who don't post on every photo, but rather people who come here, click follow on tons of people to get return followers, upload pics and then never interact. Not my cup of tea, no matter how gorgeous their photos may be.
Anyway, I think I'm bordering on ranty haha In the end yes I love your post. Don't make a post saying "Hey follow me", make yourself a part of the community and let everyone decide on their own if they want to or not. Chances are, if you take part and get involved, they will.
Got to say I am tag guilty..usually because I forget as the children are shouting for mummy, an essay is waiting to be written or at I am just plain lazy..LOL Will try to do better.
Good advice, like it a lot.
Enjoy the weekend, chill and relax and go look for trolls in the forest (or the sky) :-)
@dmortega - Dorena now that's a great idea is there a way to make them 'sticky' so they always appear in the side bar of the latest/hot topics?
I am trying to comment far more than I used to .. trundling off to the latest posts to see whats there etc. I wish I had more time :-(
Personally, I don't individually thank people, not because I'm not exceptionally grateful, but because I'd rather comment on other shots as kind of, a showing of appreciation?
@dmortega ah yes Dorrena so it is - a place I tend not to go on wesite its usually T@Cs and site maps .. now I know :-)
The words to the song Little bit of love, by Free, are over forty years old but underline your sentiments pretty well I think.......and it still sounds soooo good :)
I believe
If you give
A little bit of love
To those you live with
A little bit of love
Oh oh oh
Has gotta come your way.
@bluefirebucket Great song, great band !!
I also don't thank individually, jsut generally on by photo commentary, but I try and view and comment on every shot of those I follow.
When I started out, I responded to every comment I received. That lasted about 4 months until it just became impossible to keep up with. Now, I respond to questions or to those I am really close with and spend more of my time going through other's photos and commenting on them. Obviously I can't give comments to everyone who is following me every day; but I try to be good about finding their best shots of the moment and comment on those.
One mention; if a person is following someone because they (1) want to be followed back or (2) want more comments... they are following for the WRONG reasons. Follow because they have great work (me), are ruggedly handsome (me), or have a smashing sense of humor (again, me). LOL ;-)
Kind of like real life...if you want friends, hang out with people you like and be nice to them...they will probably like you back.
It gets hard to keep up when you follow too many. I don't always follow back right away anymore simply because I can't...but if someone comments I will check out their work and if they comment a lot and I like their work I usually eventually follow them back.
Now I have to go read that introduction and see if I'm doing it right.
@grizzlysghost @aprilmilani lol.
I use tags, but only sparingly and have *never* gone past page 1 of the "Photos by Day" page. I'll have to add it to my to-do list.
@mercuria @aprilmilani @taz_o I immediately thought of that when I started reading. I'm going to link this discussion within in mine, FWIW. Hopefully the advice will get heeded by those that need it.
Very helpful and I loved the last part about how people will understand if you've had a rough day or what not...It's so cool that this place is so friendly and family like :)