at following newbies, looking at other's work and offering feedback and constructive criticism. I know that I feel a little sadness when I work hard to get a shot that I really liked and put it on and it only gets 7 views. :( I really love this project and have learned so much, but it is a bit of a letdown when you try so hard and then your work for the day just seems to fade away without anyone even getting a glimpse. I appreciate my followers so MUCH and I have been trying to pick up more people to follow and really take the extra few minutes a day to comment on their photos. I just think that we all could stand to do a little better.......:)
Agreed, we should offer as much encouragement as possible but we can't force people to like us in return. I browse the newbies page every day, comment on several, and follow those whose tastes seem to coincide with mine, but fewer than half of them respond. If they don't like my work and don't wish to follow in return that is their choice, and I am happy with that.
@superbeyotch It's funny how it works though... quite often a shot I love doesn't get so much "attention"...but another that I'm not so in love with... can get heaps... I can't really add more to what Arthur said, he said it well.
From experience - as a newbie, I didn't realise what was happening when I got followed and comments to start with, it took me a month or so to find out and go back and find those people.
I also, having been away from a month to six weeks, am finding the pop up spam window telling me I'm being a bit spammy as I whizz through commenting on pictures very irritating. I did wonder if that's why the commenting has fallen off.
@ozziehoffy He sure did. Yes, I know there is no rhyme or reason to why some photos get more attention than others, I sure cant figure it out. I do think maybe some people would not get so discouraged if we all could share in the follow/comment part of the process. :) I am guilty of it too but I will try and do better
@shannew I dont really know what the spam thing is all about, I have never seen it. But I can imagine it would be a bit annoying if it was doing that!
As a "newbie" I've tried very hard to be thoughtful and reply to the few who have commented on my photos and in the time I have I look to explore new photos and their work -- I understand your thoughts -- there does seem to be an collective energy around certain folks --- I figure they have paid their dues -- and it appears to be some magical thing that holds people onto "new faces" pages or the other "featured" pages -- I had one shot that made it onto "new faces" but I think it was there for about an hour! And I've seen other's shots on there for days...what up with that??? Anyway...it's all fun and now that you have posted this I must go look at all of your work! ;-)
@shamrockinmom as someone who's had pictures on the New Faces page (this week and before) and on the PP when I was here before, the algorithm that triggers them getting there is based on views, comments and favs (and followers and a whole lot of other things) If your shot collects a lot of views and comments while it's on the PP or New Faces page it will stay there longer. The two of mine that sat there for ages were getting favs and comments all the time
@shamrockinmom Thanks Sherry! I dont understand how that works either. I think everyone can benefit from a little more interaction on here :) I love this site and have gotten some unbelievable help and advice from a few of the more knowledgeable members. Someone is always there to help when I have a question and that is amazing! Maybe this post will just remind us all that we can do a little bit better :)
@shannew It's sort of a catch 22 don't you think -- popularity contest of sorts -- but how does one get the looks if there is no exposure to the marketplace?? :-) It's all good and I'm learning a lot and I didn't come here to win contests...but to improve my technique and to figure out how to use a cell phone camera...
@shamrockinmom you get yourself out there - comment on others' pictures, follow other people, join in discussion threads. Mostly people will look back at the pictures of the people who comment on their photos. But bear in mind the number of followers and comments they have, and how long it takes you to look at lots of pictures and comment on them.
@superbeyotch Please don't get discouraged. Your work is awesome and really it does not matter what others may think. you know you are working hard and doing what makes you happy and end the end it is your journey and all that matters. Having said that, I know we all love to be noticed and praised for our hard work. Keep up the great work and it will all fall in to place. I think it really is all about relationships as is with egverthing in life.
@superbeyotch I had the same thought, I motivated a newbie @ravdeepkaur to join and share the experience and also joining this wonderful place will improve the skills for sure...for a newbie it is always a motivating (through comments and encouragement) factor to keep them going...whether they return to comment or not is fine. I remember my first follower(@kerristephens) encouraged me so much when i joined this site that i had a marked improvement in clicking. rest is history :-)
@shamrockinmom I don't want you to get discouraged. I started in January and like you I didn't come to make friends or have my pics commented on or faved. I wasn't originally aware that was part of the websites function. I thought it was simply documenting a year of your life, but when you discover it is more than that and start to discover how amazing the community is, it does start to become an important part of it.
I started with my mom and my sister as we all live far apart and I thought it would be a good way for them to see my girls grow through the year(s) That being said, I have created a situation where my photography has improved, I have started playing with processing and am now jonesing for a DSLR. It just grew. I'm going to check out your album now.
I would love to figure out how I can comment more on others photos. Maybe I should stop looking at these threads LOL. But seriously, between work, home, going out and finding something to photograph and process it and upload it and all the things going on now that its summer here.... its so hard to find any type of balance in my life. There have been times I've actually considered walking away from 365 not because of disinterest, but because I feel so guilty that I get as many comments as I do but don't have enough time to comment back on everyone. I hope to find a way to comment more sooner than later. I hate that life can get so busy sometimes.
@superbeyotch -- If you continue to take good and interesting shots people will find and follow you eventually. You have to also follow people as well so they know you exist and take enough interest to check out your stuff.
@jsw0109 Jeff Jeff Jeff....YOU are the first one that got me soooo excited because someone had noticed my squirrel picture and pushed so much to have others see it to because you loved it! I know how life can get in the way but I will always be impressed that you took so much time to do that for me when I was new! That is what its all about! Now that I am a little further into this project, I want to do what I can to maybe give someone that is new and maybe discouraged that same excitement!! I guess that is why I posted this :)
@cromwell I think you do a fantastic job of offering input! Atleast you do with me and i see when you have commented on others photos too. I definitely feel your pain with people losing interest and falling out...I have had many also :( @shirljess Thank you for the nice words. I will push through no matter what because this project is for me and my photography and I have learned so much from all of you. You guys wont be able to get rid of me! lol
And then there's the whole "thank you" thing. I agree with Jeff, that it takes quite a bit of time to look at all the new pics of those I'm following, and comment on them. I notice that some people write thank you to every comment, and some of those people have a LOT of comments. If I comment on a picture I don't need a thank you. I'd much rather they spent that time coming over and commenting on one of mine! :-)
@m9f9l Good point! I used to feel obligated to say thank you on every pic but I have discovered its ok to maybe say thank just once if a follower has commented on 5 pics :) I think its ok
@superbeyotch that's the kind of time I used to have that I feel guilty for not having right now! I imagine I'll work it in again soon, and hopefully I can help other new people find an audience the way I helped you, because it brought me joy to know that it meant something to you that I did that without you asking for that.
A great crop of thoughts and ideas here but may I suggest that the most important thing to remember is that we are not here to win gold medals (or even rusty iron ones) but to encourage and accept comments which may help us all to enjoy and possibly improve our photography. I readily offer congratulations or, dare I say, even a word of advice if I really believe that it might help, and am not interested in mass monosyllabic replies. Better by far to receive a few well considered sincere comments than an overload of bland thank-yous ... but we all think differently, and long may it be so.
@wordpixman well said and I would appreciate candid feedback so consider looking at my stuff. @cromwell I agree...shots count. . @m9f9l Makes sense. I just see everyone sending thanks so I try to do the same - time permitting.
@superbeyotch This is a good thought and I agree. I don't think it takes too much time to respond; however, it can be overwhelming if you have several people you're following to review - balancing act I think.
I'm a newbie (I started on June 1st), and I have to admit that I was bit... well... sad that I started first, and my sister started a week or so after me, and she has already been a finalist in a CSC contest, and even made the New Faces page, as well as garnering a lot of comments on her photos.
Then I remembered that her workday schedule and obligations allows her to be more interactive over the course of the day, while mine often means that I'm lucky to get my pictures posted by midnight, which means that they are well off the "Latest" page by the time all of my followers and friends are awake. So timing can be a big part of visibility or lack of it.
I do love the comment conversations that can ensue when I respond to some thoughtfully given constructive criticism on my work. I also love how people here are so very willing to provide advice if I have a question about how to fix a photo when I can't figure out what to do when there's something wrong with it.
I don't think that I've seen a single nasty comment on the boards or on the album comments since I arrived at 365. That's fantastic! :-)
Thanks for all you do to make 365 such a great place!
@superbeyotch When I am not jammed at work, I try to look at the New Faces page, comment on those images I like and welcome the newbies to 365. I rarely ever get a response back, but that is fine. I did not join the project to win contests or for it to be a popularity contest, I joined to improve my photography. And it definitely has improved it in the short time I have been here! I was on the New Faces page for a long time and have been on PP three times, and that is probably why I have a decent amount of followers. I think you have to post good work to get noticed here. One thing I can say about 365 is that this is the friendliest, most supportive group of photographers I have ever met. It takes a lot of time and effort to keep up with everyone's images and come up with a good photograph every day!
@pankaj I am grateful to Pankaj for his comments on my photos and introducing me to this platform. It is thrilling to be part of this group at 365 and learn more about photography... I wish to thank everyone to spare time and look at my photos.... Thanks
I agree with what you have said Chris @superbeyotch - it is at times frustrating to see very few views or comments to a photo that you worked hard on, whether it is the technique, new skill for you or composition. I would suggest maybe adding a critique me tag to that photo and then look for or start a thread for that week - something like " your best photo or overlooked photo". I have seen threads like this. Or a critique me please threads - I have found those with knowledge very helpful and eager to share.
Ok this is wordy, so lastly, to all newbies and oldies - the more we put in the more we get in return. And yes it does take up time, but so addictive in such a creative and positive way!
@wordpixman Well stated, remember many do this project for themselves, not for the PP or comments, but a way to read, look and interact, with 2 or 200. Relax and enjoy what you have done and be happy with it!
@sianipops I think this is a really good idea for new tags- "critique me", "Overlooked Photo" or "overlooked", "critical critique" The last one having to do with really examining the exposure, composition/angle, post-processing, aperture used, iso, shutter etc. Just ideas...
the comments you get are directly related to the comments you give. If the newbie wants more comments, they give more comments, and lo and behold they get some more.
I've never seen a thread like this before. I've not got time to run round patting people on the back, you establish a friend group and keep up with them. If you only got 7 views you need more friends who owe you a view because you said nice things about them.
@chewyteeth Wow Dave. I didnt realize putting a post about maybe having a little more interaction would be so offensive to you. I thought this sight was not just about posting a photo a day for no one to see, otherwise we could all post one on our own computer and be done with it. If you dont want to interact than dont, but I am sure alot of people do and I dont want to see new people get discouraged and quit. That is all
Don't want to interact?
I think what you did there Chris is comment without clicking my profile to check if your comment was well founded, oops.
So Lets recap. I said people shouldn't be guilted into comments, you get comments by giving comments. This is called interacting. So then you said, if you don't want to interact then don't.
;s
So, the wrong argument to use against what I just said really.
So click my profile, check me out, then come back at me with something informed explaining why I'm wrong about letting people earn comments and not just guilting us to keep them motivated to upload.
@chewyteeth How did this post turn into an argument? I just don't want people to get discouraged and quit because their photos are not being seen and/or commented on. That is all
*cut and paste original comment here*
yeah why argue, you posted a thread saying hey help these guys. and I said, erm no, the only way they'll do it, is through wanting to, through getting involved and through making friends. I often comment on the new faces, I say hey welcome. If they're asking advice I point them in the right direction. When someone says I should be doing better, I stop.
Chris... I am curious as to what prompted this thread and who your comments are aimed at... there are many many many folks here (many who have responded to this thread as well as others throughout this community) who I run into all over the place making encouraging and supportive comments to seasoned members and newbies alike...
My assumption is that everyone decides how much effort, energy and time they have and are willing to devote to being part of this community... I don't imagine this was intentional, but it sounds as though you are suggesting that either folks spend more time here then they do already, or that they change how they go about participating here and I am not sure that's going to achieve the intended result...
If you're trying to remind everyone that newbies need a warm welcome... absolutely! excellent point... it can be hard breaking in anywhere new and we should all be able to appreciate that because we were all new once... and it's good to be reminded every once in a while...
But if you are suggesting that people spend more time than they already do, or stop commenting on some people so they have time to comment on newbies, well, that doesn't feel right, y'know?
@northy I never dreamed this post would be taken the way that some have taken it. Your 3rd paragraph states it perfectly. I wasnt meaning any harm by any means and definitely not telling anyone that they need to spend more time on here. I just thought that alot of new people and not so new people get overlooked and/or discouraged as I have felt the same way as they do. I follow people, comment probably more than I should LOL and sometimes its just frustrating that you get a few views. That is all I was trying to say.
@brianl I think those tags are great ideas, thanks for agreeing. @chewyteeth I have seen similar threads, just usually someone asking why they are not getting views/followers. They have been given very similar advice as in todays thread. The difference with this discussion is that @superbeyotch wasnt asking for herself but on behalf of all newbies. And yes I have seen you comment often.
@superbeyotch This all seems like a Troll for followers to me, we all started with no followers or support on here as newbies you just need to follow 2 simple steps.
1. Participate in as much as your time allows.
2. Don't talk about fight club (or should this be No 1?)
Also you need to look at this site as an opportunity to improve your photography skills, I have plenty of images that I know are boring and might only get a handful of views and 1 or 2 comments but thats the way it works, yes you can take that shot of the month and get the gratification of having high views/favs PP or even top twenty if you lucky enough.
But If you are here only for that you will be disapointed, if you had started this thread off with an image that had low views and said "critque please" you may have found a few followers that like your style.
Writing something that you may see as a little tongue in check can offten be read as sarcasm and responed to in that tone.
@flagged Trolling for followers was NEVER the intention for this post. Maybe I worded it wrong, and apparently I did the way people are responding. I had been seeing newer members that had some great photos and maybe werent getting seen and I thought I would put a friendly little post to say, "Hey, lets all try and keep the new guys excited about being on here!" I am sorry that it was taken this way. Have a great day everyone.
@superbeyotch I’ve given this some thought while driving in to work this AM.
In short your initial objective was to reminds folks to check in on the new folks (i.e. new faces) and don’t just dwell in your established patch of 200+ followers and/or the folks you’re following - totally agree with this. And for the most part a lot people on this site do reach out to new people. I see folks with 1000+ followers commenting on new faces from time to time. I think their aim is to provide feedback and I hope it’s not just to gain new subscribers – feed da ego. There are some fascinating photos popping up on the “New Faces” that do indeed deserve a look. If I’m wrong about this objective let me know. I commend the young folks (teens and such) for taking up photography and trying to do their best with the gear they got. You never know if the feedback you give them may help them achieve their goals with photography – perhaps help set a career direction.
I chimed in since the discussion started talking about photos that folks desired some input on but never got it for a variety of reasons – call them the forgotten or lost photos. BTW, these are photos where people spent a considerable amount of time/effort putting a shot together. Therefore tags were suggested such as “critique me”, “lost photo” etc. I don’t see any issue with this since some people on 365 want feedback with regards to their photography skill-set. They want to improve. I know I do.
Others chimed in and indicated that they don’t want to be guilted into having to write critiques for others since they got a very busy lifestyle – like most of us. Others feel the comments (or fan base) they currently have was “earned” by producing interesting shots. This is all fine & dandy and indeed somewhat true. The interesting shots do indeed attract attention. There are so many gifted folks on this site. The Troll responses just don’t make sense to me. I don’t think anyone is trying to force following people whose photos do not appeal to you. That’s nuts. I only follow folks that have shots I like. If someone is only going to post three shots a month I won’t follow them or if they take a picture of their Canary everyday using a different angle or f/stop I probably won’t follow them either.
I think in the end, you just wanted to remind people to check in on the “new faces”- not force following folks for the heck of it. I still would like a tag to “critical critiques” as I would like to get feedback from established photographers (folks and do this for a living) or have made significant leaps in photography and have the photos to prove. I actually pay Pros for this advice via classes.
So in summary:
1) Check in on new people from time to time. There are talented people out there joining this site everyday.
2) Perhaps we should create a “tag” for photos folks want critiqued – the photos that got overlooked. If the true intend is a critique and not just “follower hunting” this is a good idea. And BTW, the definition of a “critique” needs to clarified. The critiques from the classes I’ve taken would scare away most people away here; however they are coming from Pros with 30+ years experience. – just a thought.
3) Trolling or anything related to "trolling" is not the desired result.
That’s all I gotta say about this thread. If you got ideas on how to execute any of this I’ll listen. Hope some of this sheds some light on the original intent – IMO.
Cheers.... Brian
@brianl Thank you for taking the time to write this and putso much thought into it. I just wanted to be part of the 365 community and help those that are new or discouraged. Your ideas are great. Is there a newbie "how to get started" guide anywhere that maybe I have missed? Maybe that explains that u have to put inthe time and follow/comment and establish yourself? So many have told me they have no clue what to do when they first start. Anyways, thanks again
@superbeyotch Yeah your 100% right. I didn't know what was going on when I started but I kept on posting. I recall people saying found you on the PP. I didn't know what they were talking about. I figured it out eventually.
i don't know of any getting started post. Good idea you have.
I agree with @flagged
But also wanted to add that this time of year is often quite slow and over time the number of comment's fluctuate. The beginning of the year is always very busy. I have been a bit slack on the comment front recently due to some personal stuff I have going on and the number of comments I get has definitely dropped, this doesn't worry me as I understand it is because I have been slack on my side.
Don't be disheartened about followers dropping off, unised accounts are cleared off the site regularly so often this is the reason for a drop in followers.
Chris, I think you're right though. I've read reviews on 365 saying how this community is really welcoming and supportive and stuff, but when I joined I was like "Where is everybody?!". But then when I look at the latest photos and such, and start commenting on other's photos, I realize that sometimes they also take a look at my photographs and comment. I saw that this community actually is supportive! To get involved with the community you have to show others that you appreciate their work also. But I do know what you mean by not getting any views after your hard work. But it's just a two way thing. But I'll go have a look at the new comers and welcome them! Hehe :)
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@superbeyotch It's funny how it works though... quite often a shot I love doesn't get so much "attention"...but another that I'm not so in love with... can get heaps... I can't really add more to what Arthur said, he said it well.
I also, having been away from a month to six weeks, am finding the pop up spam window telling me I'm being a bit spammy as I whizz through commenting on pictures very irritating. I did wonder if that's why the commenting has fallen off.
@shannew I dont really know what the spam thing is all about, I have never seen it. But I can imagine it would be a bit annoying if it was doing that!
I started with my mom and my sister as we all live far apart and I thought it would be a good way for them to see my girls grow through the year(s) That being said, I have created a situation where my photography has improved, I have started playing with processing and am now jonesing for a DSLR. It just grew. I'm going to check out your album now.
@shirljess Thank you for the nice words. I will push through no matter what because this project is for me and my photography and I have learned so much from all of you. You guys wont be able to get rid of me! lol
@m9f9l Makes sense. I just see everyone sending thanks so I try to do the same - time permitting.
@superbeyotch This is a good thought and I agree. I don't think it takes too much time to respond; however, it can be overwhelming if you have several people you're following to review - balancing act I think.
Then I remembered that her workday schedule and obligations allows her to be more interactive over the course of the day, while mine often means that I'm lucky to get my pictures posted by midnight, which means that they are well off the "Latest" page by the time all of my followers and friends are awake. So timing can be a big part of visibility or lack of it.
I do love the comment conversations that can ensue when I respond to some thoughtfully given constructive criticism on my work. I also love how people here are so very willing to provide advice if I have a question about how to fix a photo when I can't figure out what to do when there's something wrong with it.
I don't think that I've seen a single nasty comment on the boards or on the album comments since I arrived at 365. That's fantastic! :-)
Thanks for all you do to make 365 such a great place!
Ok this is wordy, so lastly, to all newbies and oldies - the more we put in the more we get in return. And yes it does take up time, but so addictive in such a creative and positive way!
I've never seen a thread like this before. I've not got time to run round patting people on the back, you establish a friend group and keep up with them. If you only got 7 views you need more friends who owe you a view because you said nice things about them.
Don't want to interact?
I think what you did there Chris is comment without clicking my profile to check if your comment was well founded, oops.
So Lets recap. I said people shouldn't be guilted into comments, you get comments by giving comments. This is called interacting. So then you said, if you don't want to interact then don't.
;s
So, the wrong argument to use against what I just said really.
So click my profile, check me out, then come back at me with something informed explaining why I'm wrong about letting people earn comments and not just guilting us to keep them motivated to upload.
yeah why argue, you posted a thread saying hey help these guys. and I said, erm no, the only way they'll do it, is through wanting to, through getting involved and through making friends. I often comment on the new faces, I say hey welcome. If they're asking advice I point them in the right direction. When someone says I should be doing better, I stop.
My assumption is that everyone decides how much effort, energy and time they have and are willing to devote to being part of this community... I don't imagine this was intentional, but it sounds as though you are suggesting that either folks spend more time here then they do already, or that they change how they go about participating here and I am not sure that's going to achieve the intended result...
If you're trying to remind everyone that newbies need a warm welcome... absolutely! excellent point... it can be hard breaking in anywhere new and we should all be able to appreciate that because we were all new once... and it's good to be reminded every once in a while...
But if you are suggesting that people spend more time than they already do, or stop commenting on some people so they have time to comment on newbies, well, that doesn't feel right, y'know?
1. Participate in as much as your time allows.
2. Don't talk about fight club (or should this be No 1?)
Also you need to look at this site as an opportunity to improve your photography skills, I have plenty of images that I know are boring and might only get a handful of views and 1 or 2 comments but thats the way it works, yes you can take that shot of the month and get the gratification of having high views/favs PP or even top twenty if you lucky enough.
But If you are here only for that you will be disapointed, if you had started this thread off with an image that had low views and said "critque please" you may have found a few followers that like your style.
Writing something that you may see as a little tongue in check can offten be read as sarcasm and responed to in that tone.
What this person said!
@chewyteeth @flagged
What they just said!
@flagged @chewyteeth @38mm
In short your initial objective was to reminds folks to check in on the new folks (i.e. new faces) and don’t just dwell in your established patch of 200+ followers and/or the folks you’re following - totally agree with this. And for the most part a lot people on this site do reach out to new people. I see folks with 1000+ followers commenting on new faces from time to time. I think their aim is to provide feedback and I hope it’s not just to gain new subscribers – feed da ego. There are some fascinating photos popping up on the “New Faces” that do indeed deserve a look. If I’m wrong about this objective let me know. I commend the young folks (teens and such) for taking up photography and trying to do their best with the gear they got. You never know if the feedback you give them may help them achieve their goals with photography – perhaps help set a career direction.
I chimed in since the discussion started talking about photos that folks desired some input on but never got it for a variety of reasons – call them the forgotten or lost photos. BTW, these are photos where people spent a considerable amount of time/effort putting a shot together. Therefore tags were suggested such as “critique me”, “lost photo” etc. I don’t see any issue with this since some people on 365 want feedback with regards to their photography skill-set. They want to improve. I know I do.
Others chimed in and indicated that they don’t want to be guilted into having to write critiques for others since they got a very busy lifestyle – like most of us. Others feel the comments (or fan base) they currently have was “earned” by producing interesting shots. This is all fine & dandy and indeed somewhat true. The interesting shots do indeed attract attention. There are so many gifted folks on this site. The Troll responses just don’t make sense to me. I don’t think anyone is trying to force following people whose photos do not appeal to you. That’s nuts. I only follow folks that have shots I like. If someone is only going to post three shots a month I won’t follow them or if they take a picture of their Canary everyday using a different angle or f/stop I probably won’t follow them either.
I think in the end, you just wanted to remind people to check in on the “new faces”- not force following folks for the heck of it. I still would like a tag to “critical critiques” as I would like to get feedback from established photographers (folks and do this for a living) or have made significant leaps in photography and have the photos to prove. I actually pay Pros for this advice via classes.
So in summary:
1) Check in on new people from time to time. There are talented people out there joining this site everyday.
2) Perhaps we should create a “tag” for photos folks want critiqued – the photos that got overlooked. If the true intend is a critique and not just “follower hunting” this is a good idea. And BTW, the definition of a “critique” needs to clarified. The critiques from the classes I’ve taken would scare away most people away here; however they are coming from Pros with 30+ years experience. – just a thought.
3) Trolling or anything related to "trolling" is not the desired result.
That’s all I gotta say about this thread. If you got ideas on how to execute any of this I’ll listen. Hope some of this sheds some light on the original intent – IMO.
Cheers.... Brian
i don't know of any getting started post. Good idea you have.
http://365project.org/discuss/general/9968/getting-started-guide-for-new-users
But also wanted to add that this time of year is often quite slow and over time the number of comment's fluctuate. The beginning of the year is always very busy. I have been a bit slack on the comment front recently due to some personal stuff I have going on and the number of comments I get has definitely dropped, this doesn't worry me as I understand it is because I have been slack on my side.
Don't be disheartened about followers dropping off, unised accounts are cleared off the site regularly so often this is the reason for a drop in followers.