I'm looking to upgrade to the 6D - I am choosing it over the 7D for many reasons, mainly because it is "full frame" (well, a VERY slightly smaller sensor than true full-frame cameras, but the difference really is negligible!) and the 7D is a 1.6x crop sensor.
Make sure you understand the difference between full-frame and crop-frame, and what you are getting into. Full-frame cameras are better quality but require full-frame lenses, which are generally expensive.
A crop-frame camera like the 7D will likely give you better results if you can't justify spending a lot of money on lenses. There are lots of excellent general-purpose and super-wide lenses for crop-frame cameras that are very affordably priced, but they will not fit on a full-frame camera. To get the same quality with a full-frame camera requires a much bigger expenditure, and also means you have bigger, heavier lenses to carry around.
What equipment are you using at the moment? If you have a crop-frame Canon camera with lenses marked EF-S (or non-Canon lenses marked 'DC' or similar) then they will fit the 7D but not the 6D.
@abirkill Thank you so much. I just presumed all canon lenses would fit. I have the 450D at the moment. I have Canon EF-S IS USM 17-85mm, Canon 70-300 DO IS USM, Canon 100mm L IS USM and Canon EF 50mm. Any idea which ones will fit the 6D?
@dmcrisp They should all technically "fit"...that is be useable. The problem with cropped lenses is that they will crop your photo to the 3/4 size which they are built for. I'd still be heading that way though with the quality of your work and look to upgrade lenses when you can.
@dmcrisp@swilde You cannot fit Canon EF-S lenses to the 6D or any other full frame camera, you will need EF or L series lenses. If you fit an EF-s lens to a full frame camera the mirror will foul the lens and you will be up for an expensive repair.
@swilde@asutherland1964@dmcrisp You can't fit EF-S lenses to the 6D -- the mount isn't compatible and they physically won't attach, so no danger of damaging the mirror.
You won't be able to use your 17-85mm lens on the 6D, you'll need something like the 24-105mm or 24-70mm to replace it. The other lenses will fit, but you might find yourself wanting a better telephoto lens, as the non-L 70-300mm lenses are only averagely sharp on a full-frame camera.
What is the 450D not doing that you want it to do? Without knowing that it's hard to say whether the 7D or 6D will be a better choice for you.
@swilde Sorry Sue but i think the same thing applies to the Nikons! i just read an artical about the full frame and cropped framed sensors last night and they did say that the full frammed len's are more expensive either way Canon or Nikon!! Also they said they are alot heavier to carry. They also said unless your camera body is over like 3000. its not worth going to the full frame? ...Hope this infor helps somebody..i know it helped me. I shoot Nikon d 7000;
@dmcrisp Bear in mind that the 550D, 600D, 650D, 60D and 7D all have exactly the same sensor. The 60D and 7D have other enhancements such as better build quality and faster framerate, but for single-image sharpness, the cheaper cameras will be identical.
It doesn't immediately sound like the 6D would necessarily be the best choice if your primary requirement is to be able to print large canvas images unless you are prepared to spend a lot of money on lenses. I would probably be tempted to go with either the 60D or 7D, replace your 17-85mm lens with the 17-55mm f/2.8, and replace the 70-300mm DO with the 70-300mm L. This will give you an extremely capable and sharp setup when used correctly.
If you did want to go for the 6D, you would definitely need a new general-purpose lens, of which the 24-105mm L is the cheapest that would be reasonable on that camera (and is the kit lens, when bought as a kit). I would also recommend upgrading the telephoto to the 70-300mm L if funds allow.
Cost-wise, using US prices for simplicity you'd be looking at:
7D: $1199
17-55mm f/2.8: $999
70-300mm L: $1249
or
6D + 24-105mm kit: $2499
70-300mm L: $1249
The 7D package comes in $300 cheaper, and purely in terms of image sharpness, the results are likely to be slightly better. The 17-55mm lens is a stop faster than the 24-105mm, and as sharp or sharper than the even more expensive 24-70mm. The 70-300mm L lens is the same on both cameras, but on the 7D behaves like a 480mm lens would behave on the 6D, meaning much less cropping of distant subjects and more resolution.
You will also get the other benefits of the 7D, such as a significantly better autofocus system, much faster framerate for action or people shots, and a built-in flash.
Obviously there are benefits to the 6D and other full-frame cameras, such as better high-ISO image-quality, better dynamic range, a bigger, brighter viewfinder, and so on. You should read reviews of the 6D to determine how much you care about these features. There is a step up in image *quality* when moving to full-frame, especially if you do significant post-processing, but that's different to image *sharpness*, which determines how big you can print a photo without it appearing blurry.
In terms of print size, bear in mind that none of these is a huge step up in resolution from your current camera. For canvas prints, a minimum print resolution of 150 dots per inch is recommended (as opposed to 300 dpi for photo paper printing, as the texture of the canvas reduces the resolution requirements). This means that you could print an acceptably sharp image on canvas from your 450D at 28"x19", an image from the 7D at 34"x23", and an image from the 6D at 36"x24". As you can see, there's not as big a step up as you might think from your current camera.
This also assumes that you are not introducing softness into images when shooting. Slight motion blur by not using a fast enough shutter speed, focus errors, or other issues with technique will have a far greater effect on the size an image can be printed than the difference in resolution between any of these cameras. If you are not getting everything possible out of your 450D, an upgrade could be a big disappointment (and a big expense).
I've got the 60D and have a few canvas prints done and all were fantastic. I was very happily surprised by the quality and how great they look.
@abirkill I tell you, I'm so happy you are part of this community! You have the uncanny ability to speak in lay terms and explain it all so well! I'm glad this question was asked as I was thinking about it myself... although I did also speak to a photographer friend of mine and he suggested that getting into the lighting side of things first... understand all of that better (get speedlight etc) and then look again at changing bodies.
@abirkill always love your explanations, so easy to understand . I upgraded from a 550d to the 7d and have no regrets, I'm spending money on lenses now so that when I eventually upgrade to a 5D I'll be ready. I love the build quality of the 7d, the amount of AF points and especially the frame rate. Even if I did get a full frame I'd still use the 7D for nature shots, air shows, sports, because of the crop factor and frame rate.
@dmcrisp - I've got a 400D, so comparable to your 450 in terms of pixels, and photos from that easily enlarged to A2 size as long as there was not much cropping of the image and they were on a low ISO. I've now got the 7D and always reach for it in preference to the 400 - but that's more because of the frame rate and improved quality at high ISO. So I can thoroughly recommend it as a camera, but you can still get amazing results from your 450.
The 6D is a full frame camera, and I'm definitely partial to full-frame. One question that may tip the balance, though, are on what lenses you currently have. If any of them are crop lenses, they will not work on a full-frame camera. (I had to sacrifice a very nice 10-20mm lens when I upgraded to the 5D for that reason.) The 6D is Canon's entry point into the full-frame world, providing an upgrade path to the 1D or 5D lines. It's similar to the concept they introduced with the original Rebel line as the DSLR entry point that leads towards the 60D and 7D lines. So if you're goal is to eventually upgrade to full-frame, then the 6D is the right choice. If you plan to stay in the crop sensor family, then the 7D is the right choice.
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A crop-frame camera like the 7D will likely give you better results if you can't justify spending a lot of money on lenses. There are lots of excellent general-purpose and super-wide lenses for crop-frame cameras that are very affordably priced, but they will not fit on a full-frame camera. To get the same quality with a full-frame camera requires a much bigger expenditure, and also means you have bigger, heavier lenses to carry around.
What equipment are you using at the moment? If you have a crop-frame Canon camera with lenses marked EF-S (or non-Canon lenses marked 'DC' or similar) then they will fit the 7D but not the 6D.
You won't be able to use your 17-85mm lens on the 6D, you'll need something like the 24-105mm or 24-70mm to replace it. The other lenses will fit, but you might find yourself wanting a better telephoto lens, as the non-L 70-300mm lenses are only averagely sharp on a full-frame camera.
What is the 450D not doing that you want it to do? Without knowing that it's hard to say whether the 7D or 6D will be a better choice for you.
It doesn't immediately sound like the 6D would necessarily be the best choice if your primary requirement is to be able to print large canvas images unless you are prepared to spend a lot of money on lenses. I would probably be tempted to go with either the 60D or 7D, replace your 17-85mm lens with the 17-55mm f/2.8, and replace the 70-300mm DO with the 70-300mm L. This will give you an extremely capable and sharp setup when used correctly.
If you did want to go for the 6D, you would definitely need a new general-purpose lens, of which the 24-105mm L is the cheapest that would be reasonable on that camera (and is the kit lens, when bought as a kit). I would also recommend upgrading the telephoto to the 70-300mm L if funds allow.
Cost-wise, using US prices for simplicity you'd be looking at:
7D: $1199
17-55mm f/2.8: $999
70-300mm L: $1249
or
6D + 24-105mm kit: $2499
70-300mm L: $1249
The 7D package comes in $300 cheaper, and purely in terms of image sharpness, the results are likely to be slightly better. The 17-55mm lens is a stop faster than the 24-105mm, and as sharp or sharper than the even more expensive 24-70mm. The 70-300mm L lens is the same on both cameras, but on the 7D behaves like a 480mm lens would behave on the 6D, meaning much less cropping of distant subjects and more resolution.
You will also get the other benefits of the 7D, such as a significantly better autofocus system, much faster framerate for action or people shots, and a built-in flash.
Obviously there are benefits to the 6D and other full-frame cameras, such as better high-ISO image-quality, better dynamic range, a bigger, brighter viewfinder, and so on. You should read reviews of the 6D to determine how much you care about these features. There is a step up in image *quality* when moving to full-frame, especially if you do significant post-processing, but that's different to image *sharpness*, which determines how big you can print a photo without it appearing blurry.
In terms of print size, bear in mind that none of these is a huge step up in resolution from your current camera. For canvas prints, a minimum print resolution of 150 dots per inch is recommended (as opposed to 300 dpi for photo paper printing, as the texture of the canvas reduces the resolution requirements). This means that you could print an acceptably sharp image on canvas from your 450D at 28"x19", an image from the 7D at 34"x23", and an image from the 6D at 36"x24". As you can see, there's not as big a step up as you might think from your current camera.
This also assumes that you are not introducing softness into images when shooting. Slight motion blur by not using a fast enough shutter speed, focus errors, or other issues with technique will have a far greater effect on the size an image can be printed than the difference in resolution between any of these cameras. If you are not getting everything possible out of your 450D, an upgrade could be a big disappointment (and a big expense).
@abirkill I tell you, I'm so happy you are part of this community! You have the uncanny ability to speak in lay terms and explain it all so well! I'm glad this question was asked as I was thinking about it myself... although I did also speak to a photographer friend of mine and he suggested that getting into the lighting side of things first... understand all of that better (get speedlight etc) and then look again at changing bodies.