I know quite a lot of folks on this site not only use Pinterest, but link photos from 365 onto it.
I read an interesting article today that I thought was important. Specifically, this paragraph near the end:
Another concern raised by some: Pinterest's terms of use include broad language giving it the right to "sell" and "modify" its member content, creating the potential for future privacy issues.
The Site, Application, Services and Site Content are protected by copyright, trademark, and other laws of the United States and foreign countries. Except as expressly provided in these Terms, Cold Brew Labs and its licensors exclusively own all right, title and interest in and to the Site, Application, Services and Site Content, including all associated intellectual property rights.
By making available any Member Content through the Site, Application or Services, you hereby grant to Cold Brew Labs a worldwide, irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive, transferable, royalty-free license, with the right to sublicense, to use, copy, adapt, modify, distribute, license, sell, transfer, publicly display, publicly perform, transmit, stream, broadcast, access, view, and otherwise exploit such Member Content only on, through or by means of the Site, Application or Services.
"Site Content" means Member Content and Pinterest Content.
I work in technology and marketing and I'm sort of familiar with terms of use. They are giving themselves a WIDE amount of latitude to not only do what they will with your content, but to also 'sublicense' or 'transfer' that content to another entity.
Food for thought. Personally, I'll be deleting my account, which is no great loss to them as I don't think I've signed in in months. :)
I completely agree...thus the reason I have never been active with them! Just about "anything" goes! Once it's on there, anyone can use it for anything....
I deleted mine a little while ago when I saw everyone jumping onto the pinterest band wagon...(Ive got this thing about not wanting to do whatever everyone else is doing...) Its all rather scary really, but I guess the minute you put anything out there it's open for people to do whatever they want with. The other issue I have with pinterest is that the overwhelming amount of "inspiration" was starting to take over and block my own creativty.
On another similar topic, what also really bothers me is how easy facebook has made it to save anyones uploaded photo. Ive had issues with people saving my photos and posting them onto their own facebook page which is highly annoying. But I guess thats a whole other discussion.
Hmm...I sound like a cranky cow.....must have woken up on the wrong side of the bed.
Yep, that's the internets for you. Companies like pinterest have been set up specifically for commercial purposes, and T&C's like that are to be expected. 365 Project on the other hand was set up for the love of it, and I've always said that you own your content, and we'll never use it in any way we shouldn't, because fundamentally, that is *the right thing to do* a lot of companies don't realise that, but they should, even if it makes them less money, isn't it better to do the right thing in the end?
Funnily enough when a group of friends and I started 365 projects we all ended up here only thanks to the fair and transparent copyright terms, except for one who remained unconvinced...
I read today that pinterest has NO idea how they're going to go commercial and actually make any money, so since it is ALL image related, I bet art sales will be on their list of ideas. boooooo. #goodbyepinterest. i wonder if you can keep people from pinning your stuff??
@Scrivna --- I do appreciate this site and your values but the photos can be downloaded by anyone. So, even if you don't do anything this site is open to everyone else.
ps #2: i tried to delete my account and it seems that that particular button isn't working..... ??? it just takes me back to the top of the settings page. blimey!
@dmortega but everything publicly available on the internet can be downloaded by anyone... that's what the internet is, right? it would be no different you you used your own personal website.
So I guess the question becomes, if they have a right to a photo, do they have a right to the original photo? Does the creator still have the right to make a profit from it?
I only upload reduced quality and sized photos to facebook and 365, and most of those have small watermark on them. Yes I realize it won't really stop anyone, and could in many cases be easily cloned out, but I also doubt many people would want to use my work for anything, and uploading a smaller size and allowing it to be compressed helps reduce the desire to do so while still letting me share with friends and family.
The only place I upload full sized photos to is my website which lets me automatically watermark photos in a very obvious way.
@neda in general a royalty free license just means that they can use it for whatever they like without restrictions, but as the creator you haven't signed over copyright so the image remains fully yours. Not sure about that IP clause though..?
@dmortega But that's the risk we all run and the responsibility we must accept when posting our own photos on the internet. Ross could make it members-only (i.e. you need to create an account in order to see people's photos) but anyone can create an account just for the purpose of downloading photos. The only foolproof way to prevent theft of your photos is to not post them on the internet at all.
@neda That's what I do on my website - I want people to be able to browse my photos, but the largest size of any image on there is 360x240, which is so tiny that it's pretty useless to do anything with. xD
@pocketmouse --- My concern is that anyone member or not can download any picture from this site. So, even though Ross has no intention on using the photos, anyone else can come along and take whatever they want. No one will know. My only point being that no matter what anyone says, if the download or copy/paste is available, no site is safe for uploading no matter what they say.
@dmortega Yeah, that was my point too :) Anyone can download because it's freely available material. My point was that there is little Ross can do to prevent image theft, because people will find all sorts of ways around any safeguards put in place to prevent it.
@dmortega my husband started writing sites back in uni half a life ago, he wrote in a mouseover code blocking people from being able to do a rightclick save as. Doesn't stop anyone doing a printscreen though, which is why I do small uploads and reduced file size. Enough jpg compression and people wont bother. It's a valid concern, but is it enough to stop you from sharing? It's stopped me a bit but not entirely.
@pocketmouse --- People are smart and if someone wants something bad enough, they will find a way however I've seen sites where there is no downloading or copy from the page. I'm sure the coding is more complicated and having a link to an online edit program would be problematic. Picnik.com will soon be over so I guess that part won't matter.
@neda And you can also go View > Source, and find the URL of the image, and download it that way. There is no way to stop people if they know what they're doing.
So, we get back to ... no matter what any site says or doesn't say, anything uploaded can potentially be used and shared for any purpose. Pinterest has made it pretty clear they can and may do just that.
As you've mentioned there are many ways you can reduce the incentive for people to steal your images (compression, small size, watermarks) but there's always going to be a compromise between these and the viewing experience - after all, you want people to see the beauty and subtlety of your images!
Many very copyright-conscious photographers post huge images at 500px for example because they want to share the quality of their photographs in all their wonderful detail and sharpness and so on, and consider a bit of minor stealing worth the risk. The difference there is that you don't give up any of the rights to your work. If a phone company rips off one of your images for a multi-million dollar advertising campaign you can sue the pants off them and win. Personally, posting anything that big still makes me nervous though! :)
eeek. well i guess that's the internets for you.. things can go anywhere. glad that I only use it as an online recipe book and random, 'I want to make that' bookmarking spot.
I tried Pinterest for about 5 minutes and was completely un-pinterested...I don't get the point lol??? It has no appeal to me but now I don't remember if I deleted my account I know I was *going* to. Luckily, I doubt anyone is interested in stealing my pics for any reason whatsoever haha.
One safe guard I did not see mentioned is the use of Metadata templates. I use them all the time via Lightroom. They are a bit harder to manipulate. In the end there are many ways a thief can steal your property. But think the ultimate safe guard is to copyright the images with the US copyright office. Even foreign companies use this means as the laws here are very strict.
I use Pinterest to pin my fav 365er pics and that's about it. If this is true than I have a whole lot of pictures to delete along with my account as there's no point in me using it after that. So I have emailed Pinterest and specifically asked for clarification on their policy terms and just exactly what they can and will do with the original content I have pinned to my boards.
I thought their terms only had to do with the Pinterest site and not some third party crap, since other Pinterest users may repin the pics that are all linked to the original 365 posts.
This will be very disappointing if it's true because I know several folks new to 365 have joined by seeing the photos on Pinterest and that's how they became interested. Sad... just damn sad!
@Scrivna@dmortega@pocketmouse First of all, thank you, Ross for being such an amazing and upstanding guy. Please don't ever sell out. You bring so much happiness to so many people. But I also want to say that I noticed that you already built in some safety nets for people so photos can't be stolen and used for anything commercial.
When I finished year one, I wanted to create a slide show of the highlights of my first year. I take so many photos every day that I thought the easiest and quickest way to do that would be to download my own photos from my 365 album. So I did - all 365 of them.
Even though I posted them all in large sizes, when I downloaded them and put them in a slide show, they were so compressed the slide show looked like it was made by a 5 year old. That was when I realized you must have built in some kind of protection. Even though it took me days to go find all the original photos in my photo files, I was very grateful that even I couldn't "steal" my own photos.
That is too bad. I have not personally pinned anything other than my own images from 365, but have seen many peoples picks being shared by 100's if not 1000's. I really enjoy pinterest because of its creativity. I use it for many different reasons. I share lesson plans, get style ideas, decorating tips, awesome quotes and yummy recipes, but I hate to support something that doesn't protect the rights of artists. Now the question is What to do?
I think some people have missed the point here, if you post anything on the internet, technically yes it can be stolen by anyone, that is how the internet works, anyone can post your photos to pinterest should they wish, however that is illegal (copyright theft) what pinterest are doing is saying that if you upload there, you give them permission to use your images. So yes anyone CAN do it, but it is illegal, pinterest are getting around that with their T&C's that you agree to.
Guys please, many of you seen to think you know so much about websites and how the internet works, well I'm a graphics designer and web developer so I should hold more knowledge than most, T&C are subject to the w3c internet law, if someone posts a photo on say the 365 website and then someone links it to a site it is protected by the original site...the host site.
I think what has happened here is someone has read a review of the site and it maybe wasn't the best, but the same goes for everything online, most of the T&C's used on sites are standard, why not have a look at Facebooks, or Flickrs, there will always be something in there that you dont understand.
but for those people that are so scared of terrorists using their photos: watermark them, either use PS and make a low opacity text layer or pay for a real watermark which is invisible and is coded in to the photo which means only the owner can distribute it and if it is downloaded all photo editing software will close it off and will not touch it. it does cost but if you feel your images need protecting from people promoting your work then please do so.
@Scrivna Ross K think you need to sort some things out mate, there are so real issues on here that if sorted would make everything a lot better email me well talk.
There are so many forests I can't see the trees. Image theft or failing to credit the photographer is crappy. If someone can somehow monetize it for any meaningful cash, that is even crappier. However, I post photos so that lots of people will see them and hopefully know that I took the photo. The more the merrier. I especially like the feedback. And even more than that, I really love the fun community that exists here and other places that revolve around sharing your images with the community. I wouldn't want to give that up for fear of someone stealing one of my images.
On the other hand, the images I take of my products that are for the express purpose of me selling those products... I get pissed and take action when people steal those and use them on their websites to promote products that are coming from my company. I get even more pissed when companies violate our patents. But as far as pics of seagulls and sunsets go, I am not too concerned. For professional photographers who derive their income from photos, I can imagine it is different.
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On another similar topic, what also really bothers me is how easy facebook has made it to save anyones uploaded photo. Ive had issues with people saving my photos and posting them onto their own facebook page which is highly annoying. But I guess thats a whole other discussion.
Hmm...I sound like a cranky cow.....must have woken up on the wrong side of the bed.
Funnily enough when a group of friends and I started 365 projects we all ended up here only thanks to the fair and transparent copyright terms, except for one who remained unconvinced...
... and he's doing it on Facebook ;)
I only upload reduced quality and sized photos to facebook and 365, and most of those have small watermark on them. Yes I realize it won't really stop anyone, and could in many cases be easily cloned out, but I also doubt many people would want to use my work for anything, and uploading a smaller size and allowing it to be compressed helps reduce the desire to do so while still letting me share with friends and family.
The only place I upload full sized photos to is my website which lets me automatically watermark photos in a very obvious way.
@pocketmouse wow that is pretty small!
As you've mentioned there are many ways you can reduce the incentive for people to steal your images (compression, small size, watermarks) but there's always going to be a compromise between these and the viewing experience - after all, you want people to see the beauty and subtlety of your images!
Many very copyright-conscious photographers post huge images at 500px for example because they want to share the quality of their photographs in all their wonderful detail and sharpness and so on, and consider a bit of minor stealing worth the risk. The difference there is that you don't give up any of the rights to your work. If a phone company rips off one of your images for a multi-million dollar advertising campaign you can sue the pants off them and win. Personally, posting anything that big still makes me nervous though! :)
I thought their terms only had to do with the Pinterest site and not some third party crap, since other Pinterest users may repin the pics that are all linked to the original 365 posts.
This will be very disappointing if it's true because I know several folks new to 365 have joined by seeing the photos on Pinterest and that's how they became interested. Sad... just damn sad!
When I finished year one, I wanted to create a slide show of the highlights of my first year. I take so many photos every day that I thought the easiest and quickest way to do that would be to download my own photos from my 365 album. So I did - all 365 of them.
Even though I posted them all in large sizes, when I downloaded them and put them in a slide show, they were so compressed the slide show looked like it was made by a 5 year old. That was when I realized you must have built in some kind of protection. Even though it took me days to go find all the original photos in my photo files, I was very grateful that even I couldn't "steal" my own photos.
Also, please feel free to use my images whenever you want on the PP. Gracias! :D
take Flickr its the largest photo sharing website in the world, its the same price as this site and does more so there are millions of users and millions of photos, I've had photos for there posted on to other website but because my settings on my original photos are © no one can use them without the original poster of the photos permission, and now an example of this.
I have a friend who is a games artist for the biggest hidden object games company, and what they do is photo manipulation, where they get a bunch of photos and put them together to make a new image, so it would be easy to copy other peoples photos and hide them in the finished article, however for every photo used which is © the owner is contacted and asked permission.
I think what has happened here is someone has read a review of the site and it maybe wasn't the best, but the same goes for everything online, most of the T&C's used on sites are standard, why not have a look at Facebooks, or Flickrs, there will always be something in there that you dont understand.
but for those people that are so scared of terrorists using their photos: watermark them, either use PS and make a low opacity text layer or pay for a real watermark which is invisible and is coded in to the photo which means only the owner can distribute it and if it is downloaded all photo editing software will close it off and will not touch it. it does cost but if you feel your images need protecting from people promoting your work then please do so.
On the other hand, the images I take of my products that are for the express purpose of me selling those products... I get pissed and take action when people steal those and use them on their websites to promote products that are coming from my company. I get even more pissed when companies violate our patents. But as far as pics of seagulls and sunsets go, I am not too concerned. For professional photographers who derive their income from photos, I can imagine it is different.
Note that, unlike copyright entitlements (ie the intellectual property rights generally related to a creator's 'economic rights') which can be transferred to a third party), there are also 'moral rights' which are not able to be transferred to a third party even by the creator (ie can NOT legally be subsumed by, eg Pinterest)). Moral rights are dealt with in different ways in different countries and your rights will depend on the country in which you live, and where the breach originates.
Tineye is a reverse image search engine that has found some 'interesting' results on some of the images I have checked for unauthorised use! I can right click on any image on the internet and search for potential source files using Tineye as a Firefox plugin.
Thanks Shelly for this post highlighting the reason we need to always read the fineprint.
@danig - Thanks for tagging me!!!
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-02-17/tech/31070312_1_post-videos-copyright-holder-youtube