Well, this has been a long time coming. And I want to share it with you all in hopes that it may help if you are considering getting a Canon 7D...
For several months my images have been soft focus, focused on the complete opposite part of the screen than I intended, or just completely hazy. Being as perfectionist with myself as I am, I thought it must be me. So I set out to fix myself. I concentrated on my focus issues and paid sincere attention to it. I bought and rented higher quality lenses, mostly L series. I raised my minimum shutter speed to 1/80 instead of 1/60. I steadied my arms and hands on available objects around. Each and every wedding that we shot, I waited on pins and needles to hear that my images were better.
But none of this worked. In fact, with the L lenses, the focus issue only showed up more prominently. So then I tried microadjusting my lenses, every single one. It worked on literally 1 out of 10 shots. Then as icing on the cake, all my images produced from the 7D are actually a bit green. But if I move the custom color up only one notch, the magenta is just too much. There was no happy medium. It was just a known thing I'd have to edit in post.
Guys, I can't tell you how disappointed I've been with myself. I recently quit my teaching job to do my wedding photography full time. To repeatedly, over many months and after many supposed fixes, have my photo partner tell me the photos just really weren't good made me feel like maybe I wasn't that good of a photographer after all.
Anyway, after lots of beating myself up (which actually has been a great learning process for me and has made me better with the camera) I decided to rent a camera body and see if it was really me with the focus issues.
This whole week I've been playing with the 60D and let me tell you...these photos are what focus is SUPPOSED to look like. The more I research, the more I realize I am not the only one with this issue. While it is not ALL 7Ds, it's a big chunk of them. And sending it off to Canon to get fixed doesn't work either. I would list links, but there's just so many. Just type in 7D soft focus in Google and see all the stuff that comes up. And I don't think the 60D is a superior camera to the 7D either. But at this point, any camera that took sharp images was better than my camera body.
I got a nice surprise this morning when I woke up, my husband had bought me the 60D. (we obviously can't afford the Mark II or III right now) I cried like a baby...this has seriously been a whirlwind of self doubt. I'm so grateful to have a camera that doesn't have an issue, you have no idea.
Now, like I said, I did learn a lot about myself as a photographer through this process. I learned I use the 50mm 1.2 and 1.4 way more than I should and that my depth of field I get from the 1.2 and 1.4 aperture makes for pretty crappy pictures in most circumstances at a wedding. Same thing with using the 1.8 aperture on my 28mm. I can use it only as a specialty lens, like when I want that intense depth of field and bokeh. I learned that my eyepiece wasn't adjusted to my eyesight either, so fixing that made it better on me seeing if I actually was in focus. I also learned not to trust the autofocus on any camera and if I have the time, manual focus is always better.
It's been a ride and I wanted to share it with you all in hopes that maybe I could help. (someone finding the camera they want to buy, or someone with the same troubles).
Funny- I'm contemplating the T3i vs 60D. I've thought of renting lenses, but never a camera- i might look into that. Do you have any expericence with the T3i? Oh, and I need you to call me about a tattoo degisn!
Wow, Amy! I have a 7D and I've noticed the same thing! I have just been blaming it on the lens I'm using! Thanks for this post! Looks like I need to do some research!
@girlincamo I don't know a thing about the T3i, but renting that camera body is the best thing I've done!! It wasn't expensive either.
Woo hoo on the tat!!! We'll talk soon for sure, I'm excited!
Been there, I manually focus my 7D if the aperture is wider than f/9. I bought a used 5D mkii, though it has a more primitive focus system it actually grabs focus better than the 7D. I live near Canon service in Irvine, CA, I think I'll bring it in with one of my L series lens and ask them to rework the focus system. Bought a 60D for my oldest daughter, she loves it.
for a 1/80 shutter you need a tripod. 1/160 is minimum for hand held...and if you prop your arms you can go as low as 1/120...but even then you will most likely not be happy. imho...
@amyhughes Your post indicates that your lack of knowledge of camera bodies may have more to do with why you weren't getting strong pictures. Having an arbitrary minimum shutter speed doesn't make sense. You can comfortably shoot 1/focal length (times 1.6 for the crop factor on the 7d) handheld. @katsamste 's suggestion is also incorrect, if I have a 35mm lens on my camera, I'm not shooting 1/160 just because it;s handheld (depending on the cirucmstance). This is something a professional photog should be aware of. Do you know that the 7d has an incredibly strong anti-aliasing filter on the sensor? Pictures from 7d's require more sharpening than the other cameras from the same sensor family (t2i, 60d). It just doesn't make sense to downgrade in camera because you had a bad copy. The 7d's focusing system destroys the 60d's 9 point array, where basically only the center dot is sensitive enough for use.
Did you try manually focusing any pictures? Did you do a controlled test to make sure it wasn't user error with a tool such as lensalign?
I think the point of this post is misguided. The 7d is a vastly superior camera to the 60d. If you are having problems with it, send it in or get it replaced with a new one. Don't not send it in because the internet says it doesn't fix it.
i use the old guide of what ever the focal length of the lens your using then I use that as the absolute slowest hand held shutter speed and that is only if its a static object. so for a 50mm lens if i hold the camera just right i can get fairly sharp images at 1/50th but i try and double that to 1/100th. the longer the lens the faster the shutter speed you need. If your shooting with a 200mm and your shooting at 1/80 then yes you will have blurred images of static objects. If your shooting weddings of people moving then yes 1/80 is way to long of a shutter speed and your pictures with be blurry. Also shooting at f1.4 you have like 1/2" of depth of field so your have to be dead on accurate and select where you want to focus or everything will be out of focus. Also there are various auto focus modes. some will continue to focus as long as the shutter is pressed others only focus once and stop trying to focus once it focuses which could be a problem if a subject moves and you don't refocus. Also if your shooting raw then pictures can be somewhat softer then expected and need sharping during post.
@amyhughes Thanks for sharing what I feel is an emotional time. Glad you found your own path and you can move forward with confidence and a new found vigor.
That's too bad about your 7D experience. I love my focusing system on my 7D and will often prefer to shoot low light events with it over the 5D mkii, because of the focus system. I find with the 5D mkii I shoot with regularly, it hunts a little longer than the 7D.
Don't give up send it back to Canon and let them calibrate it for you. If it's still under warranty it will only cost you for the shipping. You may get a pleasant surprise. Worth a try.
@bradleynovak I manually focus most of my pictures. And I did do a controlled test. I also did say I did not think the 60D was superior to the 7D. I mentioned I in particular had a bad body and that many other people out there are experiencing the same thing. I talked about all the examples to show how I did not want to jump to conclusions about it being the camera body because I didn't believe that a camera like the 7D would have those kinds of problems. It never crossed my mind. I thought it was me, as I said. What I was saying is that I tried to fix any situation that might be making soft photographs, not that I always shoot on 1/60 or 1/80. I'm also not talking about halos or ghosty lines around hands, etc because of movement and low shutter speeds. I am talking about using the focus point, knowing it looks in focus in my viewfinder and seeing on the computer when it's all said and done that it was actually soft around the edges, not quite in focus completely, or focused on the floor (which I was so sure the microadjusting would fix but it did not) or completely soft all over. The only reason I "downgraded" is because I cannot afford to upgrade. I had to break even as far as my money went (selling this 7D and buying new).
I'm not sure what you mean my "lack of knowledge of camera bodies may have more to do with why you weren't getting strong pictures". Gosh I hope you didn't respond just to tell me how uneducated I am. That would be kind of rude, don't you think? I'd also really love to know where you found that the center focus point on the 60D is the only reliable point. I very interested to read more about that. I do understand what you mean about the 7D focus system being so much better. And I would agree, it's why I bought that camera in the first place. I'm not saying the 7D sucks. I'm saying mine sucked.
@soia everything you said is true. I don't shoot 1/80 in situations of people moving at my weddings. The depth of field issue, as I stated, is something I need to pay more attention to, lesson learned. I definitely know about all my focus modes and I use them. And yes I am shooting raw. Funny thing though is that I also shot raw on the rented 60D and the raw images were so sharp I could see individual hairs...with the exact same lenses.
Have any of you seen the amount of reviews of folks that are having the same problem as me? Did you go and check the web for that?
I really hope all of you don't turn this post or my situation into a way of bashing me. I'm sick and tired of this 365 site doing that to people and the only reason I posted this is to help others that may be having the same problems as me. If you have constructive suggestions for me, I'll take them. But I certainly didn't post this for you to tell me that I don't know how to shoot or that I don't know how my camera works that I have been using for 3 years. That's just THAT camera. I've been shooting weddings for 10, doing photography for 15. And it's all a bit ridiculous that I even had to say that.
@hollandcrew I do agree with you Al, now that you put it that way. Maybe I'll do exactly that before I sell it to Houston Camera Exchange. I'm sure it's not under warranty but whatever about the cost. It's a good idea, and thank you.
@amyhughes If you manually focus most of your pictures, then you only have yourself to blame for missing focus, you can't blame the camera body. How can you blame the body if it is YOU doing the focusing and not the camera? It sounds like the only potential problem you needed to fix was to change the diopter. But you have been a pro for 10 years right, so you knew that.
The point of my post was not to bash you, but to point out that the information you were bringing up was most likely inaccurate and was the result of user error. The 7d is a superior camera to the 60d in every way besides the AA filter. Your post boiled down to, "Hey, if there's something wrong with your camera, take it back". It shouldn't have had anything to do with the 7d.
@bradleynovak But see I am talking about the auto focused photographs when I am talking about all the issues. If I misunderstood your question then I apologize. I have learned that manually focusing in situations in which I can is better for me. But I am speaking specifically of the auto focus issues, not the manual focus issues.
I WISH the only problem was the diopter. My goodness, that would have been awesome and easy. But I tried ALL those things I mentioned. Months of fixes that had to do with ME, not the camera. And none of it worked. I read one day tons of reviews about SOME 7Ds with exactly the same issues as me and so I rented a 60D to see if it was ME. Those photos for the whole week came out crystal clear. Beautiful. It was a confidence booster, it was not, in fact, me. At least not every single photograph. I'm talking 1 out of 10 in 3,000 images was not soft. The rest were. For months during all the different things I attempted to fix.
So no, saying that if there's something wrong with your camera, take it back is not at all what my post boiled down to. My post boiled down to my 7D had soft focus, I tried everything thinking it was me, but turns out it might not be. Lots of other people have the same problems. And I wanted to put it out there in case others did like me. THAT is what my post boiled down to. You'll even see in the response to Jerry that I said, it "MAY" not be the lens, to check it out.
Again I ask, did you research what I was saying about all the folks that were having the same trouble as me?
@bradleynovak oh and Brad, it's clear you're knowledgeable. I appreciate getting help from knowledgeable people. People like @jinximages and @orangecrush have been a great help on this site. I'd like very much to hear your knowledge about this particular situation. But the snarky comments like, "But you have been a pro for 10 years right, so you knew that." are completely unnecessary. Cut those kinds of comments out and I promise we can keep talking just fine.
@amyhughes sorry to hear about your 7D I have noticed a change in the quality of your photo's but I did not feel it my place to say anything because I know how crappy it is to say something that could hurt someones feelings so I chalked it up life and the things in life that can get in the way of a fantastic shot. So knowing now that your photo partner said what they said and you having Camera problems all makes sense. I think it is extremely sweet that your husband went out and got you a new Camera even if it is a down grade from what you had its the thought that counts and you should not be bashed for that. I do think that is is worth having your 7D checked out even if it is not under warranty find out how much it would cost to have it fixed and go from there if it cost more then if would to replace the camera with a new one then save up for a Mark II or III and you will always have the 60D as a backup at that point.
Lets face it things nowadays are not built to last and you have had your camera for 3 years in all kinds of conditions.
@relicsong so true! It was WONDERFUL of him to do that to ease all the stress I've been feeling lately. I'm glad you noticed too about the photos actually. It helps solidify my thoughts on my photos. Man that 7D has been through it's paces. You're right, it may just be the wear and tear. I do really think I am going to send it off to Canon. I think you and Al are right. I actually am capable of doing that now that I have another camera that is reliable, that way I'll still be equipped for the weddings with no worries that my other camera is in the "shop". LOL. And I totally plan on saving up for that Mark III! Having the 60D as a future backup camera?? Perfect idea. :D
I am glad you found a solution for your problem. I bought a 7D at Xmas time and haven't had any problems with the focus. I came from a 40D and i am in love with the upgrade. I only wish I had the 2 camera bodies but the reason for my upgrade was that the 40D was stolen! Take whatever you like from these forums, either way i always pick up some tidbit of handy info. Happy shooting!
Oh, Amy, it's so wonderful for you to offer help and your feeling of inadequacy (which is crazy because I totally love your style and look up to you and your work!)
Obviously if that fella above knew anything about you, 'lack of knowledge' wouldn't have been in this thread. Hopefully he's just defending all the wonderful 7ds out there (like my ole trusty girl).
I agree with you in that I miss the good ole 365 days. It just ain't the same as it used to be.
Wow Amy - that does suck. :( Canon is notorious for pretending something is fine when it isn't. Like the 50mm f/1.2 L issues ... don't get me started on that one! Honestly, if I didn't like my gear (my Canon gear has all been perfect) I would have switched to Nikon, having read so many horror stories from people trying to get Canon to acknowledge issues such as these. I have a few friends with early model 5D Mark II's who had similar troubles (and I never understood because mine was always bang-on).
I've done client shoots with a 400D and even my old 20D, and they don't know which camera I used for which photo. Unless I check meta, I don't know half the time! If the 60D works, it is the better camera, and there are plenty of pro photogs using lesser bodies than that.
Your work is excellent. Has been for as long as I've been watching. :) Great photogs self-doubt all the time ... it's only a pity you you thought it was you for so long. ;)
Hey Amy,
I'm really sorry to hear about your camera problems. It scares me a little because I just purchased a 7D. Did your camera start out that way or did it gradually start giving you problems? I've been really happy with my 7D, but hey...I was using an Olympus E-520, so the 7D is amazing! LOL!! Just curious as to how and when it started. I'm sure you'll continue to take amazing pics...don't sweat it.
@weekendhacker You know that's something I've been asking myself this whole process. And my honest answer is I'm not sure. I want to say it was always that way. Before, at the beginning, I was using a kit lens. Then I moved up to the $100 50mm 1.8 lens. At those times my shots were slightly soft on the edges and I had to sift through and delete bad ones, yes. But again, I thought it was me. I would overshoot weddings because of it to insure I got a good shot of each situation. And the thing is I don't think my shots "sucked" horribly then, I just had to do a little work to them each time. Even here on 365. Sharpening was always a factor. So as we progressed in our photo business we started getting better equipment which included better lenses. I want to say once I started shooting with L lenses and better glass that my focus issues really started to stand out. Where my partner's were became ridiculously wonderfully crystal clear, mine somehow got hazier. Look at mine by itself, it worked if you did a bit to it in Lightroom or Photoshop. Look at mine side by side with hers and it was just BAD. I also shoot occasionally with a friend that has a 7D as well. He was my second shooter at a wedding one weekend and OH the difference between his photos and mine was night and day. I just couldn't understand why. That's when I really started hammering down on it, but if I'm really thinking back and analyzing, I'd say I never did have THAT kind of clarity, no. Not the kind of clarity I got this week on that 60D. So that makes me assume that it was that way all along, I just really started to notice it when we moved up in lenses and when my partners work and my second shooter's work started being so much crisper than mine.
@kamb@sweett I am SO SO glad to hear you guys have wonderful 7Ds. I'll admit, I'm feeling gun shy about the 7D so that's also a reason why I didn't just get another body of those. It's good to hear yours are awesome and doing well for you!
@amyhughes
1. I always admired how brave you are in sharing your personal stories with 365 and your blog especially.
2. The first photo I ever saw of yours, was the one inspired by Alice in Wonderland. Ever since then I was in awe of your work. Not only the WOW factor ones you planned out. But also the everyday things. Just a quick snap and it's awesome. You have the eye!
3. You obviously don't need Brad's stamp of approval to know that you're good at what you do.
4. Looks like the new trend on 365 is trolling rather that taking better photos. Good riddance to this community is what I say. CPC is our 'sense of community' replacement.
5. I've been looking up to YOUR work as well Jessica, @sweett love your unique style and ability to just capture the essence.
6. This is turning out to look way more OCD then I intended. Me and lists, HA!
After reading this post and the replies, I'm really beginning to realize that I do not belong on this project site. I have no clue what any of your stats mean. I am a fish out of water. @amyhughes I'm glad you were able to get a new camera and that it works for you. It's important to be happy with your finished product. I wish you luck in your photography business.
@prttblues thank you so much Bev. I don't think this site is only for the people that know all the stats. I hope you don't decide to leave or anything. I think the thing that attracted me to this site in the first place is that there were all kinds of photographers on here. There are professionals I could learn from, there are moms with cameras that I could enjoy shots of their children and every day life, there are hobbyists that would love to practice and become professional one day, there are people who use it as a daily photo diary. I don't think you have to "be" any specific kind of photographer or know anything at all about photography honestly. It's the beauty of 365. I do think it has bent toward the know it alls and the people who knock others for asking beginners questions. That's such a shame. But I learn just as much from the threads where people are actually helpful to those folks that don't know what any of those stats mean as I do from someone who knows a hundred times more than me and posts a thread.
Not only that, Bev, but I happen to enjoy looking at your photos. Especially those light trails recently. I think it's awesome that you are getting to experiment. (And gettting such great photos with a point and shoot!!!) You're becoming a better photographer and that's the only thing this site is about. Don't let anybody spoil that for you.
:) ♥♥♥
You officially have permission to call out if you ever see soft focus issues on my 7D photos! :) I'm trying to learn to use manual focus in more situations, but I do still rely on autofocus for those quick-gotta-get-it shots. Thanks for sharing your experience.
@prttblues This site is meant for anyone who likes to take pictures, with the intent of cataloging your life, and also to help you improve your photography skills. I'm very much an amateur; I can't begin to compete with most people here. But I pick up tips and tricks here and there, am inspired by others, and find myself googling a lot of things so I can understand what's being talked about. So don't feel inferior, that you don't belong! Keep doing whatever you're doing! @amyhughes I am also frustrated by those who feel it's OK to be rude, snarky, etc. I posted something the other day about wondering where a particular person has gone off to, and I specifically said I didn't want any snarky comments, etc. guess what I got? One person even invited another person into the conversation with the sole intent of getting her 2 cent's worth in! I removed the conversation; I was so disgusted!! Good luck with your camera issue!
Thanks, Amy, for posting this! :) Snarky comments from certain people aside, I found it quite worthwhile and a great learning experience... I've been looking to upgrade, and while the 7D doesn't quite fit what I want in a camera, I will be even more ultra-careful in thinking about it now. :) Actually I've been dreaming about a 5D Mark II... which will certainly be a step up from the 500D I currently use... but I don't do things by halves and I really want a full-sensor camera :) it will take me months and months to save up for it but I believe it'll be worth it :)
Actually you know what, I think there's a fine line between being technically adept with photography (and knowing when something is wrong, and trying to fix it, as you did), and getting obsessed with minute details (which I've observed on many camera review sites, and sometimes on 365) that really overall won't affect the true impact of the image. For me, photography is about conveying a message, and invoking emotions, and people looking at my photos and appreciating them won't be agonising over the white balance or how sharp (or not) my image is!... (1) we photogs do that enough already xD, and (2) any viewer who IS doing that has perhaps missed the point of the overall picture (both literally and figuratively).
@robv I'm looking to get a 5D Mark II (eventually)... what do you mean exactly when you say it's focusing method is "primitive"? Do you mean it doesn't have as many autofocus points, or is it something else? I'm genuinely interested, as I am currently using a 500D... would one consider the 500D's focusing primitive as well? Just so I know what exactly to look out for. :)
@davetom
I agree with you 100%. I have the 7D, 5D Mark II and the 60D. My 60D stays in my bag and I wish I never bought it. My 7D is fabulous and it is my go to camera. I've never had any focusing issues with it in manual or auto focus. I love my 5D as well but the focusing on the 7D in my opinion is superior based off of my experiences.
@prttblues Before starting my project, I was exactly like that! All the controls and numbers on my DSLR scared me and I had no idea what I was doing. But I slowly learned over time (google was my friend) and bit by bit I learned what they mean... of course you could always cut out the middleman and ask people here directly... I, like many here, are more than happy to answer questions about it :)
Thanks for this post! I have a 60D and was considering moving up to the 7D for some of these very reasons. I don't feel I'm getting the focus capabilities out of the 60D. I can focus better manually than using auto focus and I would think the camera would do the best job on it's own. I am going to take the camera in to have it checked but now I'm leary of the 7D so will hold off and research a bit more. I'd love to jump beyond the 7D to the 5D but, as you know, that's a huge $$ jump. The guy at the camera store near us said that a new camera in this bracket (60D or 7D) in inevitable since Nikon came out with the 32mp camera. So, I'm holding off to see what Canon does in response to that.
Amy, thank you for posting this. I have a 50D and don 't have the funds needed to upgrade for quite a bit, but I'm very glad you have made me aware of this and it is something I will consider when I do upgrade.
@prttblues This site is for everyone, at all experience levels. Please don't let technical discussions drive you away. If you are enjoying this project, then that is really all that matters.
@debsphotos@karens68 awesome. I'm so glad you guys got something from my experience. My issues with 7D is definitely not to say that all 7Ds are this way, especially since so many testimonials, even on this thread, are that there are people extremely happy with their 7Ds. But I'm with you guys, research and asking questions and bringing up the possible issues to the sales people is a GOOD idea.
And @debsphotos I would LOVE to see another camera in that bracket! I'd be so excited to see what Canon could do with that!
@2thgirl gosh, I'm so sorry you had that experience. Maybe if more of us respond the way you did to those people then it will somehow stop. I used to love this site for all it's positivity and help. I'd love to see it go back to that.
Hey Amy, you can add me to the list of people who've got a 7D and love it... sorry to hear you were struggling with yours. I do think that if its still under warranty and you can take it back or get it fixed you would love it :)
Personally though, I find that manually focusing my 7D is impossible. I shoot RAW and full resolution and the few times i've tried manually focusing i'm always off.... maybe i'm not old school enough?
Amy, I don't have the photo knowledge to know all of what you are talking about but I find it very interesting. I could feel the disappointment you had by reading your story. Goes to show what a perfectionist you are when shooting a wedding and I admire that quality in you. I'm so happy you are back on track and sharing your story. This is what makes 365 special. Thanks :)
@amyhughes Don't let all the negativity get you down. You were just sharing your story and some of us understood that. Keep doing the awesome job you always do!!
Oh, Amy, thank you for sharing your story! It makes me sad to think that YOU were doubting your skills. Your photography is completely inspiring and amazing. I am so glad you were able to fix the problem for now.
(The story is very helpful as Scott and I were just discussing if I would get the 7D or 60D for my next camera. This info is good to have. Thank you for sharing this personal story)
@cfitzgerald thank you Courtney, what a compliment. I am so happy with this new camera, so motivated again! It's like Jinx said, whichever camera is better for me is the better camera. I'm glad all this went down because I think my photography skills have gotten better because of it. And I'm also glad I found the solution!! You know, still look at the 7D but REALLY look hard. Maybe even take a few photos with it if they'll let you. I'm seriously one in a whole bunch of people with this issue, though clearly there are tons that don't have it as well.
@amyhughes hey amy, I cant remember but is your 7D under warranty? can you take it to a service centre? Just out of interest, i'm wondering how objective "sharpness" is for you.. do you think the images i've taken with my 7D are sharp enough or would you count them as fuzzy?
@toast Oh no, Weng, your photos are tack sharp. Especially, for example, the ones of your cat. You can see such great clarity in the individual separations of the hairs. (I hope you think so too?) It was much different than that. Take that shot of your cat with it's mouth open lying on the ground. Imagine it just slightly hazy where all that clarity, each hair that sharp was just a bit hazy around the edges to where you weren't sure if it were in focus or not. That's how mine always looked. I always had to sharpen and clarify in post.
As far as my 7D being under warranty, it's 3 years old so I'm not sure? I am thinking I am at least going to try. I mean, what could it hurt? I have the time on my hands now to try and get it fixed, since I have another camera to shoot weddings with.
@toast Here, on my blog I posted a pic that's an example of a hazy 7D shot. The norm. And then the shot underneath with the 60D, the clarity you'd expect from any DSLR. I hope you can see the difference?...it's super apparent to me.
I have a friend who is a professional photographer. When I upgraded from XTI to 60 D I asked for his advice. I told him what I loved about the XTI and what I didnt. He told me that the 60D and 7D were almost the same exact camera. He went through alot of the options with me. I prefer to have bought the Mark but now that 3 is out I will be saving up for that. I think its just a matter of what you like and what works for you.
@amyhughes ok i get what you mean and yes I thought my images were sharp.. i just didnt know lol...
i think that there's 2 issues here - an issue with where its focusing and an aperture issue... in your post, you can see that where you'd expect to look (your face) is out of focus.. yet when you look to the right of your image, where your green shirt meets your arm its sharp.
Just out of interest, how have you set the focus points on it? are you averaging the focus or do you set the central point as the focus? It looks to me like your focus point may be set to somewhere not in the middle of the screen (its very easy to accidentally hit it and change it)? I use the spot auto focus and set it to the middle of the screen. In my experience, If i'm shooting close ups of people, there's a tendancy of some lenses / bodies to focus on the eyebrow as opposed to the eye which means that the eye is always a bit blurry http://www.digital-photography-school.com/focus-points-on-the-canon-7d-and-other-models
Regarding aperture, the part of your shirt near your sleeve is sharp, but just on either side of it depth wise, it looks blurry - did you set it to really shallow - something like F1.4?
Also i think changing your colour settings in camera is a little hard core lol. I generally leave mine alone and make adjustments in LR or PS afterwards. I'm worried that your changes are compounding issues...
can you try this :
1. Reset your 7D to factory default
2. Change your focus point to be spot auto focus on the central point
3. Use F5.6 and shoot
Dont do a selfie cos you'll never be able to pick the focus point properly just shoot someone else or something and focus your central point on an edge... I'm curious to see the results
Edit :
The link i posted actually has to do with HARD resetting... the steps I asked was just to clear your settings. You may want to add an extra step between 1 and 2:
@toast Thanks for the tips and offer of help :)
So over the months that we tried to fix said problem, we adjusted focus point settings, trying all the settings to get it right. This particular picture was taken with the individual focus point on the live view mode, actually, directly on my face. This is one of the problems I had...it focusing lower than I told it to, even when using the focus point in the viewfinder. I tried microadjusting all of my lenses and it did make the issue better, but it still happened.
This particular image is at 1.6 aperture. I wish now I'd shown you a different example. Even images set at 2.5 or even 4.5 have the haze. So yeah, we definitely tried that too over these months. That trial and change actually made me aware that I use the lower apertures in situations at a wedding where I shouldn't, but like I said even the 2.5s and up were hazy.
The reason I change the color settings/white balance on my camera is two things: for white balance (I use K-the manual white balance setting) is because the auto white balance always does funny things to the bride's dress. Especially in the shadow areas. Anyway, it's not as accurate as I need to be so I do it manually. My white balance is usually accurate, or at least I don't have to edit too much yellow or blue in post, so that's a positive.
As far as the tint of the photos, I leave that setting alone. All of my images from the 7D on the default setting have a green tint. I have tried to move the tint one notch toward the magenta, but it is just TOO pink, so we put it right back on default. The difference between one notch and the other is too much. Put my photos next to my partner's photos and they are too green. I always have to fix tint in post because there was no on camera fix that worked.
And as far as resetting my 7D to factory default, I did do that. You see why my conclusion was that it was possibly the body and not what I was doing?
@toast OH GOODNESS....I'm going to keep reading that link thank you, those are the EXACT issues I'm having.....I'll get back to you. I hadn't seen that one yet.
Ok. My first round of test shots were PERFECT. Perfect Weng!!!!!!!!!! I went up to 4.5 on aperture, had fast shutter speed, low ISO. Crystal clear on lines of my basil plant. I also did a few shots on 1.8 and the item I was focusing on was crystal. Also yes, I did notice a difference in the lens actually racking into focus. It did it each time, whereas before I would have the problem of pushing and pushing and it not slipping into focus.
I'm not going to get excited just yet (even though I am, and now I am thoroughly confused as to what to do with the new 60D body...)
I need to make sure the photos aren't green compared to Jenny's. I also want to take a round of shots tonight in lower light situations and make sure.
Cross your fingers it stays good!! (I'm kinda freaking out right now, I'm shaking a little bit...LOL)
Woohooo Amy!!! That's the first test successful! I know what you can do with the 60D ... Send it to me lol. Seriously tho if your 7D is now good an you can give it back go for it. If not then it's your backup camera or a camera for the second shooter. Alternatively use it for video
Thanks for keeping us posted on this! As far as the green cast, if that's the only remaining problem, I would think it would be better to shoot with the 7D and just do a batch-color-correct-on-import (and/or custom white balance) than to give up all of the other advantages of the 7D over the 60D. Good luck and can't wait to hear further test results!
@mabelkitty Well the tinge is touchy because I'm not dealing with my own pics. I have to match mine to Jenny's and sometimes an assistants. It's different as far as what to do in each situation, so batch hasn't been any more effective in the past than touching every photo in post. Which is a task with 2-3,000 pics. The 60D matched hers brilliantly so that's definitely a point in the 60D corner. BUT! I played with the tint again on the first round and the one notch to magenta didn't seem too pink so cross your fingers that fixed with the reset too! That would just be perfect.
@toast Ok so I might've gotten excited to soon. :( 2nd round of photos, this time compared 7D to 60 clarity side by side on the 27" monitor. It's still soft around the edges. And, skin tone is absolutely more green, even with the magenta at +1. :(( I will keep trying though. More photos to be taken, to see for sure.
@toast When I was looking at it zoomed out it looked very clear. Then I zoomed both images in (Lightroom so one space bar click on both) and that's when I saw the difference in sharpness.
I'm not giving up yet, but I may have to send it in to be fixed after all :((
ah dude, i'm sorry that it didnt help
but.. on the bright side, you're seeing glimpses of how good it can be if fixed right?
I'd be happy to send you one of my fav portrait images to convince you that getting the 7D fixed is worth it lol
2. You shoot RAW right? What do you use to import? Is it LR? When was the last time you downloaded the latest software upgrade? They all have different ways of processing te RAW file
@toast That was the first thing my hubby tried when I approached him with this problem. (He didn't believe me and actually vehemently argued with me! LOL!) So yeah, we have the newest 7D firmware. I do shoot RAW. I, myself, use LR to import because I only have a few shots when I am the one importing. Jenny on the other hand does all the importing for the weddings and uses Image Capture I believe on her Mac? I'm not sure...don't quote me on that. Anyway, yeah. My LR is updated :((
the standard canon RAW software is actually meant to be very good.. I wonder if LR is doing something funky with how it automatically tweaks the image once it imports... you know how when you import hundreds of images, zoom in on one and as you're looking at it, the image changes slightly?
Is it possible to try importing using the canon software and give that a shot? to be honest, I doubt it will matter but i'm just trying to cancel out potentials.. i import purely using LR and mine are never rediculously green.
@toast Yes I despise that about Lightroom. ;) Mine actually seems to sharpen it more than it should be. Like if I were to look at the exact same picture in Bridge, it wouldn't look like that. As well as the vibrancy of the photo, I think it gives it an extra pop.
But alas, the green is apparent on the back of the camera as well. For instance, I shot a photo this morning of my pink water cup with both the 60D and the 7D and while if you look at the 7D all by itself it looks to be fine, you put the 60D right up next to it and see the 60D actually has the truer color to the actual object. And that's the issue we're having with mine vs Jenny's camera. You put both ours in lightroom and mine is greener..I'm talking same shot, like bride and groom first dance. While mine might be a bit zoomed in, hers a bit more wide, you can see the green in the facial tones vs her more natural tones having the magentas in the skin come out, as well as in the shadows of the dress, and most of all in the surroundings of the venue. Especially, especially if it's a particularly green or pinker venue. Then the difference is astounding. Anyway, on top of that, opening the image from 60D of the water cup and also the 7D of the water cup both in Preview on my Mac produced the same results.
You know what's funny, I didn't think yours were green either! Def. not as much as mine. And I did do a bit of research on that too yesterday, but I only saw a few forums where people were asking how to fix it. Others argued with them about setting their white balance correctly or using custom color controls, all things I have already done (and those people too) so the arguing just continued and no answer was really given. It definitely wasn't the number of people that have the focus issues though.
ok i think you're at the point where you may want to just contact canon service and see how much they think this would cost to get sorted out. You may want to point out that you did lots of testing / searched the net for answers, etc and still no joy. Lots of documentation suggeseting this is more than just a one off issue and see if they'll give you a refurbished body like the guy in the article i sent you http://www.michaelmiles.com/2011/04/25/is-the-canon-7d-a-lemon/
I'm gutted that you're having such problems with what is the best camera i've ever owned :(
@toast yeah I'm totally bummed out about the 7D, but I also feel pretty psyched that I'm getting great images from the 60D, so it's regaining my confidence for sure! It's not all bad. ;) I am going to give them a call either today or tomorrow. We'll see what they say! And if it's too much money to get it fixed, I'm gonna sell that baby and get the 24-70L I've been coveting and having to rent for months...:) So see? Not all bad.
yeah good call. I've been wanting the 24-70 for AGES as well... actually just to throw something out there... if you sold both the 7D AND the 60D could you get a 5D MK3? :)
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Did you try manually focusing any pictures? Did you do a controlled test to make sure it wasn't user error with a tool such as lensalign?
I think the point of this post is misguided. The 7d is a vastly superior camera to the 60d. If you are having problems with it, send it in or get it replaced with a new one. Don't not send it in because the internet says it doesn't fix it.
I'm not sure what you mean my "lack of knowledge of camera bodies may have more to do with why you weren't getting strong pictures". Gosh I hope you didn't respond just to tell me how uneducated I am. That would be kind of rude, don't you think? I'd also really love to know where you found that the center focus point on the 60D is the only reliable point. I very interested to read more about that. I do understand what you mean about the 7D focus system being so much better. And I would agree, it's why I bought that camera in the first place. I'm not saying the 7D sucks. I'm saying mine sucked.
@soia everything you said is true. I don't shoot 1/80 in situations of people moving at my weddings. The depth of field issue, as I stated, is something I need to pay more attention to, lesson learned. I definitely know about all my focus modes and I use them. And yes I am shooting raw. Funny thing though is that I also shot raw on the rented 60D and the raw images were so sharp I could see individual hairs...with the exact same lenses.
Have any of you seen the amount of reviews of folks that are having the same problem as me? Did you go and check the web for that?
The point of my post was not to bash you, but to point out that the information you were bringing up was most likely inaccurate and was the result of user error. The 7d is a superior camera to the 60d in every way besides the AA filter. Your post boiled down to, "Hey, if there's something wrong with your camera, take it back". It shouldn't have had anything to do with the 7d.
I WISH the only problem was the diopter. My goodness, that would have been awesome and easy. But I tried ALL those things I mentioned. Months of fixes that had to do with ME, not the camera. And none of it worked. I read one day tons of reviews about SOME 7Ds with exactly the same issues as me and so I rented a 60D to see if it was ME. Those photos for the whole week came out crystal clear. Beautiful. It was a confidence booster, it was not, in fact, me. At least not every single photograph. I'm talking 1 out of 10 in 3,000 images was not soft. The rest were. For months during all the different things I attempted to fix.
So no, saying that if there's something wrong with your camera, take it back is not at all what my post boiled down to. My post boiled down to my 7D had soft focus, I tried everything thinking it was me, but turns out it might not be. Lots of other people have the same problems. And I wanted to put it out there in case others did like me. THAT is what my post boiled down to. You'll even see in the response to Jerry that I said, it "MAY" not be the lens, to check it out.
Again I ask, did you research what I was saying about all the folks that were having the same trouble as me?
Lets face it things nowadays are not built to last and you have had your camera for 3 years in all kinds of conditions.
Obviously if that fella above knew anything about you, 'lack of knowledge' wouldn't have been in this thread. Hopefully he's just defending all the wonderful 7ds out there (like my ole trusty girl).
I agree with you in that I miss the good ole 365 days. It just ain't the same as it used to be.
I've done client shoots with a 400D and even my old 20D, and they don't know which camera I used for which photo. Unless I check meta, I don't know half the time! If the 60D works, it is the better camera, and there are plenty of pro photogs using lesser bodies than that.
Your work is excellent. Has been for as long as I've been watching. :) Great photogs self-doubt all the time ... it's only a pity you you thought it was you for so long. ;)
I'm really sorry to hear about your camera problems. It scares me a little because I just purchased a 7D. Did your camera start out that way or did it gradually start giving you problems? I've been really happy with my 7D, but hey...I was using an Olympus E-520, so the 7D is amazing! LOL!! Just curious as to how and when it started. I'm sure you'll continue to take amazing pics...don't sweat it.
1. I always admired how brave you are in sharing your personal stories with 365 and your blog especially.
2. The first photo I ever saw of yours, was the one inspired by Alice in Wonderland. Ever since then I was in awe of your work. Not only the WOW factor ones you planned out. But also the everyday things. Just a quick snap and it's awesome. You have the eye!
3. You obviously don't need Brad's stamp of approval to know that you're good at what you do.
4. Looks like the new trend on 365 is trolling rather that taking better photos. Good riddance to this community is what I say. CPC is our 'sense of community' replacement.
5. I've been looking up to YOUR work as well Jessica, @sweett love your unique style and ability to just capture the essence.
6. This is turning out to look way more OCD then I intended. Me and lists, HA!
Not only that, Bev, but I happen to enjoy looking at your photos. Especially those light trails recently. I think it's awesome that you are getting to experiment. (And gettting such great photos with a point and shoot!!!) You're becoming a better photographer and that's the only thing this site is about. Don't let anybody spoil that for you.
:) ♥♥♥
@amyhughes I am also frustrated by those who feel it's OK to be rude, snarky, etc. I posted something the other day about wondering where a particular person has gone off to, and I specifically said I didn't want any snarky comments, etc. guess what I got? One person even invited another person into the conversation with the sole intent of getting her 2 cent's worth in! I removed the conversation; I was so disgusted!! Good luck with your camera issue!
Actually you know what, I think there's a fine line between being technically adept with photography (and knowing when something is wrong, and trying to fix it, as you did), and getting obsessed with minute details (which I've observed on many camera review sites, and sometimes on 365) that really overall won't affect the true impact of the image. For me, photography is about conveying a message, and invoking emotions, and people looking at my photos and appreciating them won't be agonising over the white balance or how sharp (or not) my image is!... (1) we photogs do that enough already xD, and (2) any viewer who IS doing that has perhaps missed the point of the overall picture (both literally and figuratively).
I agree with you 100%. I have the 7D, 5D Mark II and the 60D. My 60D stays in my bag and I wish I never bought it. My 7D is fabulous and it is my go to camera. I've never had any focusing issues with it in manual or auto focus. I love my 5D as well but the focusing on the 7D in my opinion is superior based off of my experiences.
@prttblues This site is for everyone, at all experience levels. Please don't let technical discussions drive you away. If you are enjoying this project, then that is really all that matters.
And @debsphotos I would LOVE to see another camera in that bracket! I'd be so excited to see what Canon could do with that!
Personally though, I find that manually focusing my 7D is impossible. I shoot RAW and full resolution and the few times i've tried manually focusing i'm always off.... maybe i'm not old school enough?
(The story is very helpful as Scott and I were just discussing if I would get the 7D or 60D for my next camera. This info is good to have. Thank you for sharing this personal story)
As far as my 7D being under warranty, it's 3 years old so I'm not sure? I am thinking I am at least going to try. I mean, what could it hurt? I have the time on my hands now to try and get it fixed, since I have another camera to shoot weddings with.
http://www.love-bug-blog.com/2012/03/bad-camera.html
i think that there's 2 issues here - an issue with where its focusing and an aperture issue... in your post, you can see that where you'd expect to look (your face) is out of focus.. yet when you look to the right of your image, where your green shirt meets your arm its sharp.
Just out of interest, how have you set the focus points on it? are you averaging the focus or do you set the central point as the focus? It looks to me like your focus point may be set to somewhere not in the middle of the screen (its very easy to accidentally hit it and change it)? I use the spot auto focus and set it to the middle of the screen. In my experience, If i'm shooting close ups of people, there's a tendancy of some lenses / bodies to focus on the eyebrow as opposed to the eye which means that the eye is always a bit blurry http://www.digital-photography-school.com/focus-points-on-the-canon-7d-and-other-models
Regarding aperture, the part of your shirt near your sleeve is sharp, but just on either side of it depth wise, it looks blurry - did you set it to really shallow - something like F1.4?
Also i think changing your colour settings in camera is a little hard core lol. I generally leave mine alone and make adjustments in LR or PS afterwards. I'm worried that your changes are compounding issues...
can you try this :
1. Reset your 7D to factory default
2. Change your focus point to be spot auto focus on the central point
3. Use F5.6 and shoot
Hmm.. there seems to be a forum post about it here that may help http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/826836
Dont do a selfie cos you'll never be able to pick the focus point properly just shoot someone else or something and focus your central point on an edge... I'm curious to see the results
The link i posted actually has to do with HARD resetting... the steps I asked was just to clear your settings. You may want to add an extra step between 1 and 2:
HARD reset your camera http://www.michaelmiles.com/2010/03/06/answer-fixing-canon-7d-focus-issue/
So over the months that we tried to fix said problem, we adjusted focus point settings, trying all the settings to get it right. This particular picture was taken with the individual focus point on the live view mode, actually, directly on my face. This is one of the problems I had...it focusing lower than I told it to, even when using the focus point in the viewfinder. I tried microadjusting all of my lenses and it did make the issue better, but it still happened.
This particular image is at 1.6 aperture. I wish now I'd shown you a different example. Even images set at 2.5 or even 4.5 have the haze. So yeah, we definitely tried that too over these months. That trial and change actually made me aware that I use the lower apertures in situations at a wedding where I shouldn't, but like I said even the 2.5s and up were hazy.
The reason I change the color settings/white balance on my camera is two things: for white balance (I use K-the manual white balance setting) is because the auto white balance always does funny things to the bride's dress. Especially in the shadow areas. Anyway, it's not as accurate as I need to be so I do it manually. My white balance is usually accurate, or at least I don't have to edit too much yellow or blue in post, so that's a positive.
As far as the tint of the photos, I leave that setting alone. All of my images from the 7D on the default setting have a green tint. I have tried to move the tint one notch toward the magenta, but it is just TOO pink, so we put it right back on default. The difference between one notch and the other is too much. Put my photos next to my partner's photos and they are too green. I always have to fix tint in post because there was no on camera fix that worked.
And as far as resetting my 7D to factory default, I did do that. You see why my conclusion was that it was possibly the body and not what I was doing?
Ok. My first round of test shots were PERFECT. Perfect Weng!!!!!!!!!! I went up to 4.5 on aperture, had fast shutter speed, low ISO. Crystal clear on lines of my basil plant. I also did a few shots on 1.8 and the item I was focusing on was crystal. Also yes, I did notice a difference in the lens actually racking into focus. It did it each time, whereas before I would have the problem of pushing and pushing and it not slipping into focus.
I'm not going to get excited just yet (even though I am, and now I am thoroughly confused as to what to do with the new 60D body...)
I need to make sure the photos aren't green compared to Jenny's. I also want to take a round of shots tonight in lower light situations and make sure.
Cross your fingers it stays good!! (I'm kinda freaking out right now, I'm shaking a little bit...LOL)
congrats Amy i'm hoping you come over to my corner and join the list of happy 7D owners
maybe you will have to take it back to a service centre :(
I'm not giving up yet, but I may have to send it in to be fixed after all :((
but.. on the bright side, you're seeing glimpses of how good it can be if fixed right?
I'd be happy to send you one of my fav portrait images to convince you that getting the 7D fixed is worth it lol
Send an image thru
Bed time now :)
1. When was the last time you upgraded the 7D firmware? I think the latest is 1.2.5. Maybe you could try updating? http://www.canon.co.uk/Support/Consumer_Products/products/cameras/Digital_SLR/EOS_7D.aspx?type=download&page=1
2. You shoot RAW right? What do you use to import? Is it LR? When was the last time you downloaded the latest software upgrade? They all have different ways of processing te RAW file
Is it possible to try importing using the canon software and give that a shot? to be honest, I doubt it will matter but i'm just trying to cancel out potentials.. i import purely using LR and mine are never rediculously green.
But alas, the green is apparent on the back of the camera as well. For instance, I shot a photo this morning of my pink water cup with both the 60D and the 7D and while if you look at the 7D all by itself it looks to be fine, you put the 60D right up next to it and see the 60D actually has the truer color to the actual object. And that's the issue we're having with mine vs Jenny's camera. You put both ours in lightroom and mine is greener..I'm talking same shot, like bride and groom first dance. While mine might be a bit zoomed in, hers a bit more wide, you can see the green in the facial tones vs her more natural tones having the magentas in the skin come out, as well as in the shadows of the dress, and most of all in the surroundings of the venue. Especially, especially if it's a particularly green or pinker venue. Then the difference is astounding. Anyway, on top of that, opening the image from 60D of the water cup and also the 7D of the water cup both in Preview on my Mac produced the same results.
You know what's funny, I didn't think yours were green either! Def. not as much as mine. And I did do a bit of research on that too yesterday, but I only saw a few forums where people were asking how to fix it. Others argued with them about setting their white balance correctly or using custom color controls, all things I have already done (and those people too) so the arguing just continued and no answer was really given. It definitely wasn't the number of people that have the focus issues though.
I'm gutted that you're having such problems with what is the best camera i've ever owned :(