Something is bothering me and hopefully someone can help me, point me to the right direction or clarify.
I started 365 on the 1 Jan 2014. I am starting to lose focus. I know its my project, my rules and everyone is different.
My 2 albums - 99% of my photos have not been edited or processed (i dont even own an editing program and if I do, I dont know how to edit the photos in the first place).
My 365 photos is my everyday life, some are landscapes. My 2nd album is my Australia album with alot of sunrises and sunset (no editing).
I like to look at alot of photos from other peoples albums and I found that people who edit their photos to look so beautiful & awesome they get alot of comments and favs. While natural shots or what people call it Straight Out of the Camera (SOOC) -like me- only get a few views.
One photo that I posted on the 8th Jan 'Reflections at Lake Placid' got approx 80 views & a couple of Favs (amazing -only happen once) - no editing - did not make it to New Faces or the Popular page while others with awesome editing photos go straight to the Popular or New Faces pages - with less views. That one puzzles me
Sometimes I think people are using so much of their time to edit their photos, that they dont have time to view other peoples photos and make comments.
I hope people understand what I am talking about.
What do people think?
@leestevo I do understand, and I have posted both types, I just get the feeling it's what catches the viewers eye. Both to my opinion are valid, after all the final result is a genuine and unique composition by the photographer. :-)
'Sometimes I think people are using so much of their time to edit their photos, that they dont have time to view other peoples photos and make comments.' HAHA. Cool observation!
You're right. Your project, your rules, etc. If you think the popular page should be part of your project you have to invest. It has nothing to do with editing photo's, or maybe a little because you need of course nice pictures for a lot of comments. But you'll only get them if you have a social life at 365 and a less social life in reality :-) Follow more people and keep commenting. They will get back to you.
And of course you have to please the magic monkeys. Nobody knows how.
If you don't care there is nothing to worry about. Just carry on with what you do and eventually you'll hit the pp. It happend to me last week, after 2+ years. Now my life is complete. I think I will stop posting!
Editing photos is not bad or taboo, actually editing or post-process of photos is as old as photography itself. With negatives in the darkrooms of yesteryear the light was manipulated to get what the photog wanted. Ansel Adams is famous for his darkroom work that produced his great images.
The reason for this is that people see differently than the lens on your camera. Different types of photography mean you have to think about the image you want to make and how best to set the camera to get what you want to work with in post-processing.
Please do not misunderstand, I am not saying that post-processing can make a bad image into a good image, you have to start with a good image. Post-processing is not a cure-all for bad photography.
You still need good camera skills to produce good images. Post-processing only will enhance a good image. However, you need post-processing skills to know what adjustments will produce a better images.
I think of photography with this rule of thirds:
1. COMPOSE
What do you see? What attracted you to this subject? What direction does the light come? Where is the light? In what position will the subject look best? How is the subject best framed? Where are the shadows, do they enhance or detract from the subject? What is the background and does it need modification? These are some questions to answer as you think of composing the picture.
2. PREPARE
Select and setup your equipment; tripod or monopod or handheld? Lens? Camera? Select exposure settings; shutter speed, f-stop/ aperture, ASA/ISO, and WB? To use or not to use flash; rear sync, what strength? Other lighting options—reflectors, soft boxes, and filters? Where to focus? Use a shallow or long depth of field? Thinking through these questions as you prepare to manufacture the image will help you be creative.
3. MANUFACTURE
Pressing the shutter release is first action to manufacture the image. Load that image into your favorite photo processing program. Make adjustments that best represent what first attracted you to this subject. Consider tones, colors, noise, levels, and cropping to help manufacture the image. Since the beginning, photos have been manufactured, either in the darkroom or with the computer. Publish this image, either print it or post it on your favorite photo website.
yeah I was on the PP some time ago and you generally only get on there when you have a large about of comments against the number of friends you have. I found that as I gained more friends I was getting more views and comments but stopped being on the PP.
In realtiy do I care about PP and other things like that on this page or others. No.. Why? because I am content with my images and I know I can always do better I am happy with what I have taken and where I am going with my career.
365 is not about taking photos, although it might seem that way, its not. Its about the community and being part of that community for the common good of us all... and that is the personal and professional growth in ourselves and in our art.
Get out there, give 100 times more than you receive and you will find it comes to you.
That is the beauty of this project, the fact you have every level of photographer, from the humble novice to sublime pro, all have a place on here and all are welcomed, remember this though that this project is about our own photographic choices and not a popularity contest, it is about encouraging at all levels in a subject we have all chosen as our hobby, and wish to share with other like minded people, your project is unique to you as mine is to me, and both are equal, many on this site relate to a journey and a learning of the art of photography, and how our own thoughts and techniques have changed over a fairly short period of time. Remember enjoy your own project and work that you produce firstly, then if you have time to enjoy as many peoples work on here that can. After finishing this responce I shall pop along to your project to have a look
Oh before I forget I just want to answer your original question.
I personally do not release a photos straight out of the camera, unless there is a real reason to do so.. i.e. shot the before and after shots.
I make it very clear to my clients that while I have taken their photo, they can not see the raw images as I have to put them through my quality process first as this is my brand and my name that is at stake.
I always show the client the image on the back of the camera but that is as far as that goes.
Yes it is different to most but I just wanted to share that with you.
I have had both edited and sooc shots on the PP. I think it all depends on what captures the focus of people. I don't do this project for the accolades, I want something to look back on. Your photographs are beautiful and I enjoy seeing yours as well as everyone else's journey, each is different and I fav people for so many different reasons. I don't always connect to the glossy edited pieces, it all depends on how I personally connect to a shot or the persons journey.
@leestevo when you say your photos are not edited, does that mean you shoot in JPG? If you shoot in JPG, your camera is making all kinds of adjustments to the photo, which IS editing. It changes the saturation, sharpness, contrast, etc. To not do anything at all to a photo means you feel that the maker of your camera can make better choices than you can on what should be done to your photo. In the digital world, there is no such thing as an unedited image. The difference is, either you control the editing (by shooting in RAW and then post processing) or you let Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc control the editing.
Another thing I wanted to point out, I noticed you have faved 12 photos. I've noticed there tends to be a correlation between how many photos a person faves and how many faves that person gets. I have no theory as to why it seems to be that way, it's just something I've observed on here. Maybe it is that whole "you get what you put in" thing.
But I want to finish off with saying you should not let it discourage you... You have some beautiful images
I post both edited and SOOC shots to my project and both types have appeared on the PP. One of my SOOC shots has also been in the TT. The magic monkeys use some strange sort of algorithm to work out what they put on the PP and don't just go for edited shots. I don't shoot for adoration or to see how many people fav my shots, I shoot (and edit) for my own enjoyment and, tbh, for my own sanity! Just remember to keep shooting and keep enjoying :o)
Being on the PP is overrated. Like @mastermek says, it's a popularity contest. It has nothing to do with how good or bad of a photographer you are at all.
I look at it occasionally to see if someone might be doing something different from the pack. If I see something that interests me I will look through their photos to see if this is an isolated case or not. If I like other things they are posting I will follow them. There are plenty of people here who are great photographers and worthy of our time and attention who never land there. You will be happier if you don't worry about that page. Just make the most of your time here. It's a great place to share our love of photography.
I know the question was about processing vs. not processing, but really...is it also about 'losing focus?' For many of us recreational photographers, the question becomes "Why am I doing this?" Everybody has a different answer, but for me...what kept me going for the first year was the sheer challenge of it...to take one photo each and every day, no matter what. There were some crazy late night shots (laundry, anyone?), but it taught me how to keep my eyes open. Others shoot to share their world with the rest of us, or to practice technique, or just to make something beautiful once a day. My advice is to be comfortable with where you are with the camera---you may want to sink time into post-processing later, or not. Meanwhile, just keep taking cool pictures.
"Unedited" by the user doesn't mean unprocessed at all for a digital photograph. As Jeff Walker above said. @jsw0109 Do you want to take charge of that processing yourself, or do you just want the camera to make its fixed guess at what you really wanted?
And for that "guess," a huge amount of processing, computation and software is used by the camera to turn the binary pixel recorded data (light value basically) into an image that simulates how the human eye actually "sees." After that processing, it then must turn that re-created image back into another non-image format.
The first part is very complicated, and has a jargon word to describe itself - demosaicing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demosaicing. Like any single process that is used in millions, perhaps billions, of different situations (each image anyone shoots is a new and separate situation) the algorithm has to "guess" as best it can, often making huge generalizations.
And then the second part, to record that demosaicized "virtual image" in another digital recording format, the camera compresses this view down to the jpeg (or tiff or...) that in itself is another huge software algorithm and has to make many guesses as to what is "right." All without human intervention and the human eye to judge if the one software and digital process got it right this time.
This is all so very different from traditional film photography that actually does deal with "analog" data from beginning to end, certainly with some modifications in developing and printing, but certainly not having to deal with the problems of having to change and convert and interpret (guess) the media at least twice.
So please don't think that we who like to individually handle our best images "after the shoot" on the computer are being perverse. It's all to make sure the result is "right" or "pleasing" or otherwise communicating what we "saw" or "discovered" to start with, and "correcting" the sometime wild guesses and mistakes the camera made, many times caused by the limitations not only of the software to cover the general case, but of the hardware and firmware technology limitations that record the light values at the moment the shutter is pressed, so very differently from the way the human eye sees and perceives images.
To some of us, this is the really magical part of digital photography, working with the raw material of those light value recordings (helped out of course by the magic of modern lenses, but still operating nothing like the human eye) and producing something wonderful. If you don't like the high falutin' word "art" to describe this process, many would so accept the term, you surely must accept that it is certainly a worthwhile and meritorious "craft."
It's certainly where I spend a lot of my time and I hope creativity. Do I spend other time looking at others work? Absolutely I do. Do I also comment? Yes I do, but I hope not gratuitously. Excuse me for going on at length on this point, but being satisfied with SOOC is like getting 50% of the job done.
Also realize that some of those people whose photos are so popular have been at this a while and have many followers. That makes a huge difference. Work to build up your followers. Visit the popular page and follow some of them. I have been doing this for 4 months. I now have 140 followers. Just the other day, I made the trending page for the first time.
I post mostly lightly edited photos. My profile pic is SOOC, because I didn't think I could improve it.
@agima Thanks Brendan for your wonderful comments and every thing you say is true. As I was writting my original post... Its my project and my rules...and your right...I should be looking at myself, my personal journey and how I can improve on myself. I very new to this 365 project and how it all works. Thanks Brendan :-)
@paulty@mastermek@griff Thanks guys for pointing out the obvious, I should be concentrating more on myself and not everyone else. Just enjoy the process. :-)
@sugarmuser Thanks Sharon...you are a wonderful person. Wwhen I started 22 days ago thats what I wanted to do is to look back at my photos at the end of the year....but I was reading too many much into peoples posts about why they are not getting the views or comments that their photos deserve.
Thanks it is MY journey. I also enjoy looking at your photos too. :-)
@jsw0109 Thanks Jeff.....you are right. I do edit my photos via the camera, but not very much, but dont use the editing software at all. Thank you for your great comments, I am only new to this so may need to learn more about my camera and what it can do.
@houser934 Hi Kathryn...you are right...I just lost my focus in the last few days, Starting this project...I am more aware of the surroundings and the beauty. I just need to concentrate on that, Thanks :-)
@frankhymus Thanks Frank for you detailed comment :-). Maybe I am just jealous that some people can edit their photos really, really well and I cant. I might just have to learn about how to process or edit a photo. Thanks :-)
This is your project, do what you want to do. Interact with the people who inspire you. Don't worry about the PP or all that. If you look at the PP, you will consistently see a large number of images of two major subjects -- birds, and sunrises/sunsets. If you can post a nice photo of a bird in a sunrise or sunset I think you're close to guaranteed to make the PP. After birds and sunrises/sunsets, the next popular subjects are flowers, then children. If you could photograph a cute child holding a bunch of flowers next to some birds in a sunrise or sunset, you'll make the PP for life, I think.
I like to look at (and take) photos of many other things besides birds, sunrises/sunsets, flowers, and children. Sometimes I take painfully boring photos, other times I come up with a nice one or two. As long as I'm enjoying the process and learning as I do it, then that's why I'm here.
And FWIW, I get bored with a great number of the highly processed images (many of which make the PP). I look for originality, good composition, emotion, freshness, a story... Not another Photoshopped (or LIghtroomed) paint-by-numbers sunset.
I think of post-processing like a woman putting on makeup. Some women are beautiful completely makeup-free. Others are delightful with just a touch of mascara and lip gloss. The continuum continues on to the plastic Barbie-doll looking they-all-look-alike Hollywood starlet paint jobs. Boring.
Where do you want your work to fall on that continuum? It's completely up to you.
@chapjohn@psychographer@dmortega Thank you for your kind comments...I really appreciated it. Its my journey, now I refocus and continue shooting beautiful photos.
Thank you every one for kind and wonderful comments, it really helps
Yes @jase_again, I do think alot :-)
@sjoblues Thanks Shannon...you are absolutely right. Also I try to look at originality as well.
But I post a view of sunrises/ sunsets,but I only get approx 10 views. Maybe that is why I got disheartned, You know what I dont view other peoples' sunsets or sunrises any more as I am sick of them...lol.
Thank you for your kind comments and now I know what I am going to do and not what to do. :-)
Ok, tomorrow, I'm embarking on my Year Two after taking a 21 day break between years. Here's some advice, and please know it's just based on what I've been through: Find out why you are doing the project as you do the project (as it may change monthly, weekly, daily). If you are 20 days in and losing focus, that is your number one problem, not whether to edit or not --that's not your issue in the end. Are you on to learn about your camera, or are you recording the days, or are you trying to focus on certain subjects? I started 365 as a writing project oddly; but now, I'm a photographer, all about understanding my gear and finding where my talents are. Every quarter last year, I shifted my focus, but the biggest hurdle was not PP or number of views. My biggest hurdle was staying focused on MY PROJECT. At times, it really meant that I was not going to be commenting. I could comment, but then I would not have time to take a photo, properly process it, and then post it. Oh, and I have kids, a job, a life, and a billion things also going on--how folks on here comment at the levels they do astounds me, but we all do what we can. For me, and I'm sure I'm different from others, the photos came first.
This project takes you all kinds of places--most all of them fantastic, including the amazing community on here. I would say figure out why you are on--the rest will come. I already know that in my second year, I'm not going to be in a position to put in the commenting effort that is sometimes necessary, but I've developed some really strong ties here and I know that my discussions are on the work.
Welcome to the greatest addiction ever! This is a fantastic place. Focus on your work, comment when you can, and learn processing soon! So many free options if you want to learn. You have plenty of time, and it will be fun as you do it with so many others!
@darylo Thanks Daryl for your supportive words. My main focus was to document my daily photos as I travel around Australia. Suppose reading to many posts, looking at amazing pics...I lost my focus. Yeah I think too much. With everyones great comments and I have refocus back to my main priority - documenting my travels thru pics. I have sort myself out. Good luck Daryl with Year 2 launch...I will be following you :-)
Everyone has been a great help and we have a great community, that supports one another :-)
I used to get lots of views and favs/comments and don't as much any longer. I guess I have become boring - haha! I am OK with it - the PP is in large part as others have said, a popularity contest.
However, this site is very reciprocal. Are you commenting and fav-ing a lot of other people's pics? Many people who get lots of comments and favs are giving as much as they get and spending a lot of time commenting, encouraging, critiquing, and helping others.
I don't use Photoshop - I do use the free program in Picasa - sometimes it's a crop or a little saturation - I shoot in RAW and jpeg. I have not noticed a difference in comments on edited vs unedited pics.
I spend at least two hours a day commenting on pics of those I follow - it's a lot of time and effort.
I would say if you are participating to get a lot of feedback and comments, you need to give at least as much as you want to get and probably more. If you are doing it for a years photo-journal and a personal challenge, don't worry about feedback.
@jankoos Thanks Jan....but that was my problem I was commenting, (maybe not fav as much) on so many photos from different groups, that I was not getting much feedback on my own. Therefore I was neglecting my own personal phototaking and my own learning process, etc. Now less commenting and more on my photos...sorry.
I might try Picasa, I just download the free trial of Photoshop lIghtroomt...gosh its so bloody confusing. I just want a simple editing program. Thanks for your help :-)
@leestevo I started with the Windows program on my PC at first. Picasa is good too. Picmonkey is provided for ace members and it's pretty good/basic. I would put processing lo w on the list until you get your bearings, but that's only because a year is a long time! Good luck! :)
Something else to think about, Lee-Ann - if you are following/commenting on pics of popular members with several hundred followers, you may not get as much feedback as when you follow members with less of a following. I have a variety of people I follow - some don't know I exist but I am in awe of their work, and can learn from it, so comment when something they post strikes my fancy. Others I have built a rapport with and we comment on most of each others postings - good and bad. There are lots of awesome people here who will take the time to comment on your work - keep at it - don't give up - you will be so proud of yourself when your year is up. Guaranteed!
Hi Lee-Ann, I joined 365 to learn more about photography and I have learnt sooo much! The way people compose their images, both by processing and framing and the pov they shoot at. There are some remarkable photographers on this project. Time is always a struggle for me, I work, travel and have 3 teenage children, I do my best to comment when I can and i don't stress as much these days when I don't have the time. I think with images, people will comment on what catches their eye, whether its sooc or processed. You will build up a rapport with people over time so don't give up, be happy with the images u want to post and enjoy taking pictures :)
I started this because I moved across the country and am living in a new province. I felt this would not only help me get out and explore my new home, but also give me a "year in pictures" of what I'd been doing. It was amazing to look back and see what I've accomplished (adapting to my new locale)! I'm exploring newer places as I get more comfortable. Most of my first month or so were pretty much pictures I took from my house. We have a great garden and wonderful view. I could have become a recluse :) I don't edit much although I am somewhat familiar with PhotoShop. I like the challenge of adapting my shooting to the situation. It's been so much fun to be part of this that I signed up for year 2. Thanks for sharing!
Hi Lee-Ann, I don't do much editing, and when I do I don't do it well. I will occassionally go completely overboard just for the fun of it. It has never kept me off the PP or out of the TT. I know you are a follower of mine, and I've only commented on one of your shots. I can't comment on all my followers every day so I tend to comment on the ones who are the most obvious, until I decide that I can follow yet another one and I add them to my list. I try to go down the list of followers as regularly as I can to see what they're doing.
I doubt that editing has anything to do with comments or favs. This is a friendly place that is about more than peoples photography skills. It is also about who they are and how supportive they are: supportive of your photography but also supportive of you as an individual. I hope you stay with the project and become more satisfied with the interaction.
@leestevo
Hi Lee-Ann. You may want to check out some of the challenges on the "Themes and Competitions" page. You will meet more people and get some inspiration.
@jankoos I want to second what Jan pointed out. One of the things I found SO helpful and fun was becoming friends and followers with many who were starting around the same time I was. It was fun to learn together, grow together, share ideas and methods, comment on one another's photos and read comments others had left. It was exciting when someone I was following who started when I did showed up on PP. Anyway, I learned a lot from following more experienced photographers, but most of my comments were from photographers who started when I did and we grew together. I found this to be a wonderful site for learning about photography in a social way, rather than on my own just taking a course or reading books.
We take photos, because we can't imagine not taking photos.
And we learn to edit and take better photos, because who doesn't want their photos to be truly as professional looking as possible.
I've learned a thousand new things in the past two years and hope to keep learning.
And from time to time, the photos make the PP and it does feel affirming. But like everyone on this thread, I've had great photos posted at a time when I was not as active in the community and they didn't get a single FAV. That is just part of the process.
Even without 365, I would be taking photos.
If you aren't feeling inspired, I agree with the others who said jump into a challenge or competition. They are fun and get you to work a little harder to find your own unique spin.
@taffy - some good points there, Taffy - I still get excited when I see my 365 pals on PP and TT. It's been really awesome to see so many grow and blossom. We have learned things about each others personal lives and I think there is a real support network.
@jankoos Exactly, Jan! It's been so interesting to read threads from "newbies" because it feels so familiar. The year went so fast -- it's weird to be an 'experienced' 365er now! But our cohort that went through together is, to me, one of the most special aspects of the year and this site. And we learned so much from each other! And from the 'experts' we followed who were a year or two ahead of us, of course.
I can but humbly agree with the many words of wisdom dispensed by the sages above.
I'm a lazy photographer and pretty much let the camera do most of the work. I take lots and sort through them to find the best. I try to remember what settings I used to get that shot - thank goodness for the Exif data.
Over the past two years I've learned to 'see' things that would have escaped me before 365. I have discovered, with the help of some of the above, the features of my camera. I enjoy my morning walk and if there are 5 or 6 reasonable images I'm in heaven.
Do it for yourself, enjoy your camera and take advantage of the wonderful countryside.
PS. You should see the crappy stuff I produced back in January 2012 8-)
@jankoos@jetpics@swilde@taffy@lstasel@swguevin@lstasel
Thanks girls for your imput, feedback and comments, especially Jan & Taffy. I do have a good group of followers & friends. Its true, in those 20 days im starting to have a group network & supported friends. Those same friends have helped me today. Thank you so much. I know what i have to donow. :-)
Maybe Laura if im a bit more confident i will start doing a bit more challenges...thanks
@tonydebont Thanks Tony for your kind feedback & comment. I am going to enjoy my travels and the beauty around me. I dont think anyone can take a crappy photo...the camera does all the work...lol
@leestevo Best advice I got upon starting...(well, among the best) -- don't wait to start challenges. Those are some of the best ways to push yourself and you'll learn a lot just from trying. I remember my first challenge or theme was 'leading line' and I didn't know what that was. But, by wanting to try to do something for the theme I learned. Next major learning one was spot metering -- turns out it's this little button on my camera and totally easy to use, but I'd no idea til the challenge what it was (I even had to dig out my owner's manual). So have fun with the challenges -- don't wait, just dive in!
Hi Lee-Ann. Editing isn't a bad thing. If you shoot in Raw you would need to do some editing anyway (to get a good sharp image, for instance). What you have to realise is that photographers have always edited their shots. In the age of film, there was the choice of chemicals to get different contrast levels, the choice of toning (gold and selenium for instance) and then there was dodging and burning. If you take this on top of the original shot where the photographer might have chosen a particular camera, a particular film, a particular lens to give a specific effect, may have exposed the shot for highlights or shadows, opted for a longer exposure to capture motion (or not) you might begin to realise that photography is as much about being "creative" as it is about documenting a moment in time. Nowadays, it is easier (!) to do things that would have taken an age in the darkroom (or was totally impossible) but there are no rights or wrongs, just what you are happy with and what other people like and want to see.
As to the Popular page and Top Twenty etc. Don't sweat it. There have been shots that I have taken that by all reckoning should have made both pages and have made neither. It's all done by algorithms and they can't judge the quality of a person's work - just how popular that piece of work is perceived to be. If you are a regular achiever of popular page photographs then you will find it harder to get there as the algorithms adjust themselves to make life harder for that individual.
In conclusion, just get on and enjoy what you are doing, push yourself a little bit, see what others are up to, give it a go yourself. Why not have a go at some of the themes and challenges? You could always join the "Get Pushed" challenges (contact @northy for that one). Most of all have fun - that is what photography (and life) is all about.
P.S. I will follow you to keep an eye on how you are progressing.
Hi Leanne, I am 8 months into my project and it took me to last week to get on the Trending and PP pages, so be patient.. I to don't do too much in the way of editing.. check out a free online Picasa.. that is what I use and just a little touch can work wonders.. Enjoy your project and do it for your self...
@leestevo thanks for your post Lea-Ann. Interesting and worthy discussion. I too am relatively new to 365 and for what it's worth - here's my 2 cents worth..
I came to this site because i've always loved photography - and for many years - probably like many people have dabbled. What i love about 365 is the diversity of people and the images they share. That is it's strength. Some in this thread also said that it is a very friendly community - that is also my experience. Which is pretty cool if you ask me!!
I feel pretty chuffed to have such easy access to this pool of creativity and connection.
Pretty early on I decided that i would 'do my head in' if I only strived to get on the cover pages (so to speak) Don't get me wrong - that would be cool - but for me I want this to be an enjoyable, learning, sharing, inspirational, fun experience. But c'est la vie… as they say don't miss out on the journey by focusing only on the destination.
In terms of editing.. I don't have many tools or much talent to be fair in that department either (and sometimes less patience than would be handy!!) nor the time actually. I see editing as adding value and point of difference and really is sometimes necessary. I think it would be to undervalue some images to say that every single image needs a work out… but even the act of desaturating and turning up the contrast can change things for the better dramatically.
I'm doing this for me! And am enjoying the connections i've made so far. Its very cool in fact. So just enjoying the ride and learning - thats what i'd recommend. Thats what stops me from being totally overwhelmed by the amazingness of other people's work and using them for inspiration!
I agree with the recommendations about getting involved as you feel happy and trying the challenges. They can be fun and also thats where i've found my learning to be. Yay!
I think thats all (i interrupted myself half way through with visitors - so my train of thought detailed!)
I couldn't really put it any better than Paul @steampowered did above. But I would add that I am not so sure about your comment about people who spend time editing spending less time commenting. I think people just do what they have time for, and that the strongest correlation, particularly when you first start off on here, is between the amount of commenting you do and the amount of comments you get back.
Don't lose heart, this is a great place to be and if you are serious about improving your photography just take a look back at the early shots of people who have been here for a long time. Some of them were brilliant when they started, of course, but most of them you will see an enormous improvement.
Also, why don't have a go at a bit of editing, you may well enjoy it? Picmonkey, which you can get to free directly from this site if you want to is a great place to start. Why not have a dabble!
I think everyone should do whatever they like on their 365 project, personally I don't know how to process my images yet and I have limited software but I love to see what others have done, when I am confident in using my camera properly I look forward to learning how to process too!
I think photography is an artform and as a creative medium the user should do it their way.... don't worry about popular pages etc..just enjoy!
As I don't own an editing programme can't really comment on that. The focus I can and it does get hard as you go through the year. I started a list of anything to take so if inspiration was lacking I could look at my list to help create a shot. I have found that you get out what you put in and have met some wonderful people. Organised some meets in London where we all have one thing in common, cameras!! That has been a great way to met people and enjoy the site. Happy to follow you so can help and add super when the phojo is no go!!
Have you tried http://www.picmonkey.com/ for editing? I only do a bit of processing but find it's good for basics.
Primarily my own project is an online photojournal but with lots of lovely photographic and social interaction as well. It needs to be fun!
I use a CoolpixS3500 camera, I use the facilities the camera, aim and press. I do have Photoshop Elements but as i've commented on othere threads I do not really know how to use to do all the clever editting.
Why am i doing this - to document my year in photographs, it will be fin to look back. If I can improve my photography skills in the process great. I have already learnt so much such of Point of View and Depth of Frame.
I look at the latest page and a have a quick look at todays photos and comments on photos of those I'm following. In 22 days i have 79 followers, i'm following 109 and i've already fav'd 107 photos. It has been a great 22 days and I look forward to many more.
Who looks at what and why intrigues me, my stats are fasinating.
@steampowered@kazprincess@quietpurplehaze@kporte@padlock@ourrube@jantan@brigette
Thanks everyone for commenting & taking the time and I read each of your comments..you all have valuable points. Brigitte you can give me 20 cents worth...lol. I will try pic monkey or a simple editing program, but firstly let me play with my camera a bit.
Wow, since I started this 22 days ago, this morning I had approx 900 views of my photos, after this post tonight Ive got over 1700 views, double in ONE day.
Thank you everyone for taking the time to commenting to this post , viewing & commenting on my photos, also I gain alot more friends and followers. This is a great community. :-)
@leestevo A lot of people will follow you if you follow them. It's no guarantee though! The drawback of following lots of folks is that you might have to do a lot of following. There are some very good editing programs out there ranging from relatively simple stuff like PicMonkey right up to the big boys, Photoshop and the GIMP.
@leestevo Hi Lee-Ann, I'm new to 365 too. I thought it would be easy to take a picture of my life as I am always snapping away. Its actually harder when you get up, go to work, come home in the dark and the next day is exactly the same. At least you have a fab life with lots of different views every few months or so. I got a couple of favs this week and it actually panicked me, I felt under pressure as I'd just managed to produce two pics, without editing, and the rest are mediocre, felt way too much under the spot light, but having said that it was lovely too!! Photography is subjective, I look at the pp's and like some of them but not all of them, my favs will be different from yours. Once I've mastered the art of taking good photos I will play about with processing, but not before. I also don't comment if the person has loads and loads of comments already, I think they can get lost if there are too many. Lets enjoyit for what it is. Debbie
@debbie3108 Thanks Debbie for your comments, at the moment im working and been living in Cairns far too long. I will be heading off in the next couple of months,. Yes im suppose i am a bit lucky. At the moment just playing with my camera before i learn how to edit.
This is my second year with 365... exactly one year into the project, I made the PP and Trending page with an image sooc. Prior to 365, the only editing I knew was getting rid of red eye.
Since you are an ace member, you can edit your images with picmonkey straight from this site. (It's in the right hand margin.) I prefer iPiccy.com which is free.
First let me say, take a deep breath. You have not been here very long. In my eyes the project is suppose to be fun. For me it is an opportunity to do what I love, processed or not. If it is getting you down this early in the game maybe you need to rethink your reasoning behind joining. I don't mean that to be mean, please don't take it like that... I just want you to see the big picture. It is your project. Do what gives "YOU" joy. If you do that you will find this project will also give you joy. The get pushed challenge is a good way to learn your camera and meet new people. I highly recommend it. I also like the mundane challenges. No need for a fancy smacy camera. I have been using my iphone a lot lately. Is it the best picture out there? Heck no, but I am having fun and that's the goal for me. When it stops being fun I will leave.
I started in the world of photoshop first. I'm a comedian and had to make flyers for myself so that was my beginning. Now on 365 I'm learning to shoot a an actual picture, to frame, to focus...to see more that what I would normally see. I personally like MY pictures better when I add a tweak to them here and there. I like OTHER peoples photos for the photo. An appreciated pic to me comes from a picture that makes me think... wow, or smile or feel something. I notice if it was "processed" afterwards. I went and looked at all of your photos. They are great! You are appreciated for the eye that you have. Enjoy your project (I do)
@frankhymus Wooohoooo Frank!! GREAT comment!! and you mirror my feelings almost exactly. The only part I would add, is photography is considered an art, not just a capturing of fact. Being creative and altering your images in any way is ART. I think anyone with a camera can capture the "fact" but it takes an artist to make it into "ART". With that said, phew.... 365 should be about YOU and about personal learning, growth and happiness. So many people make it into a contest then give up. Really it's all about you!! Go forth and capture, come home and make art!!
@sjoblues@leestevo Shannon's comments are spot on here; particularly the make-up analogy... I really like that. Use other people's work for ideas and inspiration but don't make comparisions with your own. Just do your own thing and above all... enjoy it!
@acloserlookpbd Thanks for reading my rant. Actually, capturing the fact can be difficult and as much an art form as other photography. There is a huge and wonderful tradition of photo-journalism. But even photo-journalism is no excuse for getting sloppy and using SOOC as an excuse for being lazy. There, I have probably annoyed enough people again. :)
Hi Lee-Ann, I started 365 on January 1st. I have 3 followers (three people I know), haven't seen my photos anywhere but on my page and have gotten about 2 comments from others. That's okay because I'm having fun and that's what counts. I like reading what people have to say and I love seeing photos from around the world. It's a really great site and way less work than the other social media sites. So thanks everyone — keep those 'slice of life' photos coming. BTW, beautiful photos right out of your camera, Lee-Ann. I have both but I'm a graphic designer so I tend to use Photoshop for tweaking. :-) Sandy
@yogiw Thanks Sandy, as i mention before, i think i was reading too many peoples blogs, post, comments, etc and not concentrating on my learning process and just having fun. I just lost it. I know i just started, but i am learning as well. Thanks
I've had a few SOOTC shots get on the New Faces page, but for the most part, my project gets very little attention...but that cool with me. I'm kind of doing this project for myself, and it's awesome that I have some people that watch what I'm doing, but I'm not worried about getting a lot of attention. I'm focusing more on what I want to get out of a picture rather than what I think other people want to see.
As my profile indicates, I have been shooting in auto for years. The JPEGs would come out of the camera and they were okay. I was content with my photography until one day I was looking through a friend’s photo album and the images were incredible. I asked how these were taken and he simply said I added some pop in post (I will never forget that). From that point, I knew I wanted to take my photography to the next level. What that really meant was that I needed to learn how to post process my shots.
I’m having a hard making my point, so I will just say it. I personally think it is almost impossible to get an image out of the camera that can not be improved in post. Today’s camera simply do not have the dynamic range to capture most images. This range can be brought to the image by editing the shot. So TO ME SOOC shots can almost always be improved.
I looked at you project and think you have a great eye for composition, and enjoyed viewing your shots. Keep it up!
Of course this is how I see it. We are all different, and we like different things. This project is for you. So regardless of what I, or others say please continue to do what makes you happy.
On another note, what has once been a tedious task of processing images has become an amazing artistic outlet for me. I enjoy editing the shots as much as taking them.
Tweets ahoy!
Join the Group
Pin With Me
You're right. Your project, your rules, etc. If you think the popular page should be part of your project you have to invest. It has nothing to do with editing photo's, or maybe a little because you need of course nice pictures for a lot of comments. But you'll only get them if you have a social life at 365 and a less social life in reality :-) Follow more people and keep commenting. They will get back to you.
And of course you have to please the magic monkeys. Nobody knows how.
If you don't care there is nothing to worry about. Just carry on with what you do and eventually you'll hit the pp. It happend to me last week, after 2+ years. Now my life is complete. I think I will stop posting!
The reason for this is that people see differently than the lens on your camera. Different types of photography mean you have to think about the image you want to make and how best to set the camera to get what you want to work with in post-processing.
Please do not misunderstand, I am not saying that post-processing can make a bad image into a good image, you have to start with a good image. Post-processing is not a cure-all for bad photography.
You still need good camera skills to produce good images. Post-processing only will enhance a good image. However, you need post-processing skills to know what adjustments will produce a better images.
I think of photography with this rule of thirds:
1. COMPOSE
What do you see? What attracted you to this subject? What direction does the light come? Where is the light? In what position will the subject look best? How is the subject best framed? Where are the shadows, do they enhance or detract from the subject? What is the background and does it need modification? These are some questions to answer as you think of composing the picture.
2. PREPARE
Select and setup your equipment; tripod or monopod or handheld? Lens? Camera? Select exposure settings; shutter speed, f-stop/ aperture, ASA/ISO, and WB? To use or not to use flash; rear sync, what strength? Other lighting options—reflectors, soft boxes, and filters? Where to focus? Use a shallow or long depth of field? Thinking through these questions as you prepare to manufacture the image will help you be creative.
3. MANUFACTURE
Pressing the shutter release is first action to manufacture the image. Load that image into your favorite photo processing program. Make adjustments that best represent what first attracted you to this subject. Consider tones, colors, noise, levels, and cropping to help manufacture the image. Since the beginning, photos have been manufactured, either in the darkroom or with the computer. Publish this image, either print it or post it on your favorite photo website.
yeah I was on the PP some time ago and you generally only get on there when you have a large about of comments against the number of friends you have. I found that as I gained more friends I was getting more views and comments but stopped being on the PP.
In realtiy do I care about PP and other things like that on this page or others. No.. Why? because I am content with my images and I know I can always do better I am happy with what I have taken and where I am going with my career.
365 is not about taking photos, although it might seem that way, its not. Its about the community and being part of that community for the common good of us all... and that is the personal and professional growth in ourselves and in our art.
Get out there, give 100 times more than you receive and you will find it comes to you.
I personally do not release a photos straight out of the camera, unless there is a real reason to do so.. i.e. shot the before and after shots.
I make it very clear to my clients that while I have taken their photo, they can not see the raw images as I have to put them through my quality process first as this is my brand and my name that is at stake.
I always show the client the image on the back of the camera but that is as far as that goes.
Yes it is different to most but I just wanted to share that with you.
Another thing I wanted to point out, I noticed you have faved 12 photos. I've noticed there tends to be a correlation between how many photos a person faves and how many faves that person gets. I have no theory as to why it seems to be that way, it's just something I've observed on here. Maybe it is that whole "you get what you put in" thing.
But I want to finish off with saying you should not let it discourage you... You have some beautiful images
I look at it occasionally to see if someone might be doing something different from the pack. If I see something that interests me I will look through their photos to see if this is an isolated case or not. If I like other things they are posting I will follow them. There are plenty of people here who are great photographers and worthy of our time and attention who never land there. You will be happier if you don't worry about that page. Just make the most of your time here. It's a great place to share our love of photography.
And for that "guess," a huge amount of processing, computation and software is used by the camera to turn the binary pixel recorded data (light value basically) into an image that simulates how the human eye actually "sees." After that processing, it then must turn that re-created image back into another non-image format.
The first part is very complicated, and has a jargon word to describe itself - demosaicing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demosaicing. Like any single process that is used in millions, perhaps billions, of different situations (each image anyone shoots is a new and separate situation) the algorithm has to "guess" as best it can, often making huge generalizations.
And then the second part, to record that demosaicized "virtual image" in another digital recording format, the camera compresses this view down to the jpeg (or tiff or...) that in itself is another huge software algorithm and has to make many guesses as to what is "right." All without human intervention and the human eye to judge if the one software and digital process got it right this time.
This is all so very different from traditional film photography that actually does deal with "analog" data from beginning to end, certainly with some modifications in developing and printing, but certainly not having to deal with the problems of having to change and convert and interpret (guess) the media at least twice.
So please don't think that we who like to individually handle our best images "after the shoot" on the computer are being perverse. It's all to make sure the result is "right" or "pleasing" or otherwise communicating what we "saw" or "discovered" to start with, and "correcting" the sometime wild guesses and mistakes the camera made, many times caused by the limitations not only of the software to cover the general case, but of the hardware and firmware technology limitations that record the light values at the moment the shutter is pressed, so very differently from the way the human eye sees and perceives images.
To some of us, this is the really magical part of digital photography, working with the raw material of those light value recordings (helped out of course by the magic of modern lenses, but still operating nothing like the human eye) and producing something wonderful. If you don't like the high falutin' word "art" to describe this process, many would so accept the term, you surely must accept that it is certainly a worthwhile and meritorious "craft."
It's certainly where I spend a lot of my time and I hope creativity. Do I spend other time looking at others work? Absolutely I do. Do I also comment? Yes I do, but I hope not gratuitously. Excuse me for going on at length on this point, but being satisfied with SOOC is like getting 50% of the job done.
I post mostly lightly edited photos. My profile pic is SOOC, because I didn't think I could improve it.
Thanks it is MY journey. I also enjoy looking at your photos too. :-)
I like to look at (and take) photos of many other things besides birds, sunrises/sunsets, flowers, and children. Sometimes I take painfully boring photos, other times I come up with a nice one or two. As long as I'm enjoying the process and learning as I do it, then that's why I'm here.
And FWIW, I get bored with a great number of the highly processed images (many of which make the PP). I look for originality, good composition, emotion, freshness, a story... Not another Photoshopped (or LIghtroomed) paint-by-numbers sunset.
I think of post-processing like a woman putting on makeup. Some women are beautiful completely makeup-free. Others are delightful with just a touch of mascara and lip gloss. The continuum continues on to the plastic Barbie-doll looking they-all-look-alike Hollywood starlet paint jobs. Boring.
Where do you want your work to fall on that continuum? It's completely up to you.
Thank you every one for kind and wonderful comments, it really helps
Yes @jase_again, I do think alot :-)
But I post a view of sunrises/ sunsets,but I only get approx 10 views. Maybe that is why I got disheartned, You know what I dont view other peoples' sunsets or sunrises any more as I am sick of them...lol.
Thank you for your kind comments and now I know what I am going to do and not what to do. :-)
This project takes you all kinds of places--most all of them fantastic, including the amazing community on here. I would say figure out why you are on--the rest will come. I already know that in my second year, I'm not going to be in a position to put in the commenting effort that is sometimes necessary, but I've developed some really strong ties here and I know that my discussions are on the work.
Welcome to the greatest addiction ever! This is a fantastic place. Focus on your work, comment when you can, and learn processing soon! So many free options if you want to learn. You have plenty of time, and it will be fun as you do it with so many others!
Cheers. And I hope this helps! :)
Everyone has been a great help and we have a great community, that supports one another :-)
However, this site is very reciprocal. Are you commenting and fav-ing a lot of other people's pics? Many people who get lots of comments and favs are giving as much as they get and spending a lot of time commenting, encouraging, critiquing, and helping others.
I don't use Photoshop - I do use the free program in Picasa - sometimes it's a crop or a little saturation - I shoot in RAW and jpeg. I have not noticed a difference in comments on edited vs unedited pics.
I spend at least two hours a day commenting on pics of those I follow - it's a lot of time and effort.
I would say if you are participating to get a lot of feedback and comments, you need to give at least as much as you want to get and probably more. If you are doing it for a years photo-journal and a personal challenge, don't worry about feedback.
I might try Picasa, I just download the free trial of Photoshop lIghtroomt...gosh its so bloody confusing. I just want a simple editing program. Thanks for your help :-)
I doubt that editing has anything to do with comments or favs. This is a friendly place that is about more than peoples photography skills. It is also about who they are and how supportive they are: supportive of your photography but also supportive of you as an individual. I hope you stay with the project and become more satisfied with the interaction.
Hi Lee-Ann. You may want to check out some of the challenges on the "Themes and Competitions" page. You will meet more people and get some inspiration.
The current "Technique Challenge" is High Key Photography.
http://365project.org/discuss/themes-competitions/20730/technique-challenge-19-high-key
The current "Camera Setting Challenge" is Wide Aperture.
http://365project.org/discuss/themes-competitions/20682/camera-settings-challenge-14-02-wide-apertures
The WWYD and ETSOOI challenges are always fun to check out.
We take photos, because we can't imagine not taking photos.
And we learn to edit and take better photos, because who doesn't want their photos to be truly as professional looking as possible.
I've learned a thousand new things in the past two years and hope to keep learning.
And from time to time, the photos make the PP and it does feel affirming. But like everyone on this thread, I've had great photos posted at a time when I was not as active in the community and they didn't get a single FAV. That is just part of the process.
Even without 365, I would be taking photos.
If you aren't feeling inspired, I agree with the others who said jump into a challenge or competition. They are fun and get you to work a little harder to find your own unique spin.
Welcome to 365.
I'm a lazy photographer and pretty much let the camera do most of the work. I take lots and sort through them to find the best. I try to remember what settings I used to get that shot - thank goodness for the Exif data.
Over the past two years I've learned to 'see' things that would have escaped me before 365. I have discovered, with the help of some of the above, the features of my camera. I enjoy my morning walk and if there are 5 or 6 reasonable images I'm in heaven.
Do it for yourself, enjoy your camera and take advantage of the wonderful countryside.
PS. You should see the crappy stuff I produced back in January 2012 8-)
Thanks girls for your imput, feedback and comments, especially Jan & Taffy. I do have a good group of followers & friends. Its true, in those 20 days im starting to have a group network & supported friends. Those same friends have helped me today. Thank you so much. I know what i have to donow. :-)
Maybe Laura if im a bit more confident i will start doing a bit more challenges...thanks
As to the Popular page and Top Twenty etc. Don't sweat it. There have been shots that I have taken that by all reckoning should have made both pages and have made neither. It's all done by algorithms and they can't judge the quality of a person's work - just how popular that piece of work is perceived to be. If you are a regular achiever of popular page photographs then you will find it harder to get there as the algorithms adjust themselves to make life harder for that individual.
In conclusion, just get on and enjoy what you are doing, push yourself a little bit, see what others are up to, give it a go yourself. Why not have a go at some of the themes and challenges? You could always join the "Get Pushed" challenges (contact @northy for that one). Most of all have fun - that is what photography (and life) is all about.
P.S. I will follow you to keep an eye on how you are progressing.
I came to this site because i've always loved photography - and for many years - probably like many people have dabbled. What i love about 365 is the diversity of people and the images they share. That is it's strength. Some in this thread also said that it is a very friendly community - that is also my experience. Which is pretty cool if you ask me!!
I feel pretty chuffed to have such easy access to this pool of creativity and connection.
Pretty early on I decided that i would 'do my head in' if I only strived to get on the cover pages (so to speak) Don't get me wrong - that would be cool - but for me I want this to be an enjoyable, learning, sharing, inspirational, fun experience. But c'est la vie… as they say don't miss out on the journey by focusing only on the destination.
In terms of editing.. I don't have many tools or much talent to be fair in that department either (and sometimes less patience than would be handy!!) nor the time actually. I see editing as adding value and point of difference and really is sometimes necessary. I think it would be to undervalue some images to say that every single image needs a work out… but even the act of desaturating and turning up the contrast can change things for the better dramatically.
I'm doing this for me! And am enjoying the connections i've made so far. Its very cool in fact. So just enjoying the ride and learning - thats what i'd recommend. Thats what stops me from being totally overwhelmed by the amazingness of other people's work and using them for inspiration!
I agree with the recommendations about getting involved as you feel happy and trying the challenges. They can be fun and also thats where i've found my learning to be. Yay!
I think thats all (i interrupted myself half way through with visitors - so my train of thought detailed!)
… that may have been ten cents worth :)
Brigette
Don't lose heart, this is a great place to be and if you are serious about improving your photography just take a look back at the early shots of people who have been here for a long time. Some of them were brilliant when they started, of course, but most of them you will see an enormous improvement.
Also, why don't have a go at a bit of editing, you may well enjoy it? Picmonkey, which you can get to free directly from this site if you want to is a great place to start. Why not have a dabble!
I think photography is an artform and as a creative medium the user should do it their way.... don't worry about popular pages etc..just enjoy!
Have you tried http://www.picmonkey.com/ for editing? I only do a bit of processing but find it's good for basics.
Primarily my own project is an online photojournal but with lots of lovely photographic and social interaction as well. It needs to be fun!
I use a CoolpixS3500 camera, I use the facilities the camera, aim and press. I do have Photoshop Elements but as i've commented on othere threads I do not really know how to use to do all the clever editting.
Why am i doing this - to document my year in photographs, it will be fin to look back. If I can improve my photography skills in the process great. I have already learnt so much such of Point of View and Depth of Frame.
I look at the latest page and a have a quick look at todays photos and comments on photos of those I'm following. In 22 days i have 79 followers, i'm following 109 and i've already fav'd 107 photos. It has been a great 22 days and I look forward to many more.
Who looks at what and why intrigues me, my stats are fasinating.
Thanks everyone for commenting & taking the time and I read each of your comments..you all have valuable points. Brigitte you can give me 20 cents worth...lol. I will try pic monkey or a simple editing program, but firstly let me play with my camera a bit.
Wow, since I started this 22 days ago, this morning I had approx 900 views of my photos, after this post tonight Ive got over 1700 views, double in ONE day.
Thank you everyone for taking the time to commenting to this post , viewing & commenting on my photos, also I gain alot more friends and followers. This is a great community. :-)
Since you are an ace member, you can edit your images with picmonkey straight from this site. (It's in the right hand margin.) I prefer iPiccy.com which is free.
Good luck!
@rellimdj @acloserlookpbd @pdavies @aprilmilani @warrenbhall @photohoot @3rdxoff Thank you for taking time to reply and have your say...you all have good advice, plus all right. Yes April, i have to ignore my voices as well...lol Have a great day/ night.
I’m having a hard making my point, so I will just say it. I personally think it is almost impossible to get an image out of the camera that can not be improved in post. Today’s camera simply do not have the dynamic range to capture most images. This range can be brought to the image by editing the shot. So TO ME SOOC shots can almost always be improved.
I looked at you project and think you have a great eye for composition, and enjoyed viewing your shots. Keep it up!
Of course this is how I see it. We are all different, and we like different things. This project is for you. So regardless of what I, or others say please continue to do what makes you happy.
On another note, what has once been a tedious task of processing images has become an amazing artistic outlet for me. I enjoy editing the shots as much as taking them.
Be well
Jeff