so those of you who've seen some of my images probably know that i'm not very big with B&W... thats not because I dont like them, its more because i'm just not comfortable with B&W.
When i'm shooting, I cant think in B&W. And by that I mean that if i look at a scene, I see it as colour and struggle to figure out how this would pop more in B&W - what adjustments I need to make etc.
However, on the weekend, I got to shoot withe the fantastic Katie Green and tried planning out a scene for B&W which was inspired by Damien Lovegrove.
Comments / Critiques please? What did I do right? More importantly, what did I do wrong? How would you have approached it?
Backdrop is a couple of panels of wooden board. The light is a single rectangular soft box to try to mimic a window light - set very close to Katie to accentuate the light drop off and the shadow. Shot at F2.8 to give a shallow DoF, bringing her face in focus to pop while still allowing a bit of the background to be visible.
Me, I would go with more highlight and higher contrast, especially on the edges of the face and arms. Low Key as a genre is actually about those sharp edges amidst the other low tones. For me anyway.
@frankhymus that's really interesting... So on the unedited image the edge of her arm was alot brighter... I took it down because I thought it didn't look as good with her hand being brighter than her face....
She is stunnng. I think this is a great shot. Id just up the high-lights. Even just bump your wb more to the yellow will bring out some amazing light. I love the shadows I woundnt change them. If you go in and dodge and burn the high and low lights it will make her start to look mor 3-d. Awesome job!
@frankhymus yep i'm interested in hearing everyone's view.. Ive heard that in B&W you're supposed to have pure white and pure black in there...
@aprilmilani thankyou for that... funly enough i'm not that great with dodge and burn.. i can never get it to look realistic or good... maybe time to have another go at it!
Personal opinion? Too dark. Shading is all we have when we are looking at b&w photos. I will be doing more b&w photos starting in January just so I can keep working on seeing the different layers. I do like the photo, though.
It's an arresting shot of a lovely woman, but for me, it's too dark, unless there's a reason you're trying to "hide" the subject.
There are schools of B&W just as there are of anything else. Your comment "Ive heard that in B&W you're supposed to have pure white and pure black in there.." makes me think of Ansel Adams' Zone Theory, but it was more than that - that there should be full range of tones from pure black to pure white. And yet, Zone Theory isn't the be all and end all of B&W. Here, I'd suggest the photo would be more effective if you separated your subject from her background not just by focus, but by allowing more light on her to model her and to separate her tonally from the background as well.
But I don't know enough about PP to suggest how you'd do that!
Having said all that, you're definately on the right track. You've caught what seems a genuine expression on her face, speaking well of your ability to work with a model, you've got a good lighting strategy. Keep at it, and you'll get a feel for B&W.
I don't photograph portraits so I don't know how much I can be of help. It's a great photo and I particularly like the light on the buttons.
I don't mind the overall darkness, but I'd like more separation between the model and the background. Currently a lot of the right hand side of her (as we look at her) is very tonally close to the background, as are her clothes (and particularly her hat) on the left hand side.
I think either some rim lighting, particularly on her right hand side, and/or a light that lit just the background, possibly through a cuculoris for some texture, would give you separation that would make her stand out. In both cases they could be dialed down way below the key, so they wouldn't need to alter the dark feel of the photo.
In terms of shooting black and white generally, one thing that can help, provided you shoot raw, is to switch the camera to a black and white picture style (where the saturation is turned down all the way). This will mean that the previews you see on the screen are black and white (albeit with a basic conversion, of course), but because you are shooting raw, you still have the full-colour data to do a proper black and white conversion with when you begin post-processing. I find this can help me 'think' in black and white, and see the tonality of an image more easily.
actually i specifically DID want to have it lit on camera left with light fall off to nothing on the right - specifically i didnt want to rim light this as I this to be kind of a dark and sexy almost "boudoir" feel to it. Adding a rim light to separate the right of her from pure darkness didnt seem to make sense to me as this would just start to look like the right side of her was shopped in...
Maybe i'm trying to stretch the boudoir theme with this... I guess the only way for me to test this is to add a rim light on another shoot and just see
I could also be this monitor. It shows too much blue so it probably appears overall dark just to me. The boudoir look is good. I think you are on the right track.
I think its ace, certainly wouldn't up the contrasts and make it all sparkling, everything is perfectly visible. Do the buttons detract from her eyes maybe?
ok so i've taken this all on board and done another edit... i've got them side by side along with the original so you can all take a look at what i've done and seen if you think i've done right in making this B&W in the first place
@chewyteeth cheers mate.. good point about the buttons... I did a B&W transfer in PS and i've upped the blues. It seems to have made the B&W conversion a little softer... I think i prefer this version...
I like the more contrast much better. The rim lighting suggestion from Alexis is a good idea. Positioned just right, with the light falling on the edges rather than skin expanse, you can get the bright edges that I really like. not that I am great at all about Low Key shooting. I need more of the proper light, perhaps a focused high intensity one...
It may be my moniter, but I can't tell for sure if the larger re-edited photo is the same as "new" in the tripartite one. It looks like there's more rim lighting on my right side in the larger one. I don't care one way or the other if you separate her shadowed side from the wall, I think it looks great both ways, but I very much prefer the skin tones on the new one/ones. She still looks like she's being lit by the natural light of a window, so you have a sense of intimacy in the image, and you can let part of her fade naturally into shadow if you like that look. In the first edit, it was so low key that the viewer (well, that I!) had to strain to make any connection with the subject.
Consider the source on my next comment. I'm almost 60 and overweight, so maybe I'm just jealous! The color version makes me think "Real girls don't dress like that!" but I accept the black and white one without a second thought, so I think this image is an excellent choice for conversion to black and white.
@therubysusan yep its the same... on the smaller one I've just put them side by side and maybe the resizing makes it look a bit different. You've hit the nail on the head there where you spoke about a certain intimacy in the B&W which was what I was going for. Given that the outfit is lingerie, I think the whole "real girls" thing goes out the window :). I've seen a lot more revealing / different in the windows of Victoria secret, agent provocateur etc.
ha ha ha, you should know me. I say it how I see it.
Let me start of with the things I would change:
Nothing.... it is a great image... Ok there are a couple of things I would fix up in post but you have done an outstanding job. Well done.
the model should also be given an award as she looks great. Her post is great.
Ok, let me see.
The model has her right hand wrist straight. I would of bent that.
Her fingers on the other hand I would like to of seem more of them.
Boy that was easy.
In post it looks great except for............... What the hell is that white thing in her arm pit.... I even wiped my screen to ensure it wasn't me...
I love the reflection on the hat.
I love the catch ligths in her eyes and I love the S curve in her body.
the only other thing that I see is the fold of skin in her left arm near her shoulder. Sure its part of the post but it take away from it... Not sure how you could over come that however..
@agima mate, how rude of me.. i was so worried about the white spot that I forgot to say thankyou for the critique
Slight bend to the wrist doesnt actually worry me and based on the challenging expression on her face, I wonder if this would soften the image a little. Defo agree about the fingers on her left hand and the fold on her left arm. I tried a quick and dirty fix in Lightroom but that didnt sort it out... May have to go back to PS and try to just soften this as opposed to taking it out which may look strange
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@aprilmilani thankyou for that... funly enough i'm not that great with dodge and burn.. i can never get it to look realistic or good... maybe time to have another go at it!
@gavincci thankyou :)
There are schools of B&W just as there are of anything else. Your comment "Ive heard that in B&W you're supposed to have pure white and pure black in there.." makes me think of Ansel Adams' Zone Theory, but it was more than that - that there should be full range of tones from pure black to pure white. And yet, Zone Theory isn't the be all and end all of B&W. Here, I'd suggest the photo would be more effective if you separated your subject from her background not just by focus, but by allowing more light on her to model her and to separate her tonally from the background as well.
But I don't know enough about PP to suggest how you'd do that!
Having said all that, you're definately on the right track. You've caught what seems a genuine expression on her face, speaking well of your ability to work with a model, you've got a good lighting strategy. Keep at it, and you'll get a feel for B&W.
I don't mind the overall darkness, but I'd like more separation between the model and the background. Currently a lot of the right hand side of her (as we look at her) is very tonally close to the background, as are her clothes (and particularly her hat) on the left hand side.
I think either some rim lighting, particularly on her right hand side, and/or a light that lit just the background, possibly through a cuculoris for some texture, would give you separation that would make her stand out. In both cases they could be dialed down way below the key, so they wouldn't need to alter the dark feel of the photo.
In terms of shooting black and white generally, one thing that can help, provided you shoot raw, is to switch the camera to a black and white picture style (where the saturation is turned down all the way). This will mean that the previews you see on the screen are black and white (albeit with a basic conversion, of course), but because you are shooting raw, you still have the full-colour data to do a proper black and white conversion with when you begin post-processing. I find this can help me 'think' in black and white, and see the tonality of an image more easily.
actually i specifically DID want to have it lit on camera left with light fall off to nothing on the right - specifically i didnt want to rim light this as I this to be kind of a dark and sexy almost "boudoir" feel to it. Adding a rim light to separate the right of her from pure darkness didnt seem to make sense to me as this would just start to look like the right side of her was shopped in...
Maybe i'm trying to stretch the boudoir theme with this... I guess the only way for me to test this is to add a rim light on another shoot and just see
Consider the source on my next comment. I'm almost 60 and overweight, so maybe I'm just jealous! The color version makes me think "Real girls don't dress like that!" but I accept the black and white one without a second thought, so I think this image is an excellent choice for conversion to black and white.
@therubysusan yep its the same... on the smaller one I've just put them side by side and maybe the resizing makes it look a bit different. You've hit the nail on the head there where you spoke about a certain intimacy in the B&W which was what I was going for. Given that the outfit is lingerie, I think the whole "real girls" thing goes out the window :). I've seen a lot more revealing / different in the windows of Victoria secret, agent provocateur etc.
@dtigani Thanks david
Let me start of with the things I would change:
Nothing.... it is a great image... Ok there are a couple of things I would fix up in post but you have done an outstanding job. Well done.
the model should also be given an award as she looks great. Her post is great.
Ok, let me see.
The model has her right hand wrist straight. I would of bent that.
Her fingers on the other hand I would like to of seem more of them.
Boy that was easy.
In post it looks great except for............... What the hell is that white thing in her arm pit.... I even wiped my screen to ensure it wasn't me...
I love the reflection on the hat.
I love the catch ligths in her eyes and I love the S curve in her body.
the only other thing that I see is the fold of skin in her left arm near her shoulder. Sure its part of the post but it take away from it... Not sure how you could over come that however..
i hope that has helped?
http://365project.org/toast/365/2013-10-12
Slight bend to the wrist doesnt actually worry me and based on the challenging expression on her face, I wonder if this would soften the image a little. Defo agree about the fingers on her left hand and the fold on her left arm. I tried a quick and dirty fix in Lightroom but that didnt sort it out... May have to go back to PS and try to just soften this as opposed to taking it out which may look strange