Facebook is a really, really, really bad company.
You can't say otherwise.
In The Netherlands a lot of people will quit Facebook on Wednesday. So will I. It won't have that much impact on my daily live though because my Facebook was only silently present. In the background however, it is very, very busy destroying my being. And yours too, probably. That must stop. I will quit and delete my Facebook account on Wednesday around 8pm.
@suesmith Nothing. It is a social network, like 365. That's all. If you don't want to mingle or like FB for what they stand for, that's fine with me :-)
On the other hand millions of photo's are shared through the network each day. It must have some connection...
i am not sure what the fuss is about, i know Zuckerberg called everybody dumb f#cks! i dont keep much info on facebook, i learned not to do quizzes or click on fake news links, i follow local news and views groups, a gardening group , all closed groups, so not too worried. i did recently start on instagram and regret clicking the link to facebook thing... i didnt realise what it would do and that you cant undo it!
@kali66 I don't believe FB is the only page that sells my data. I kind of assume once you put anything out there, it's for grabs. So, I am not bothered by the FB thing.
interesting discussion... i don't do FB... i have a visceral dislike of it... i have a page somewhere, but haven't looked at it in years, and never put much on it...
every once in a while i think i ought to figure out FB (I've kind of lost track of people who only ever interact on FB and missed out on social events, plus i know there's a fairly vibrant photog community there), and every single time i end up ready to throw up as it keeps asking me personal questions and makes it difficult for me to get past the prompts without answering... never mind the fact that i couldn't ever figure out the privacy settings... the latest round of issues pretty much caps it off for me...
I'm not on FB, but when I read about it in the news, I was so grateful for 365. I've never received an ad related to it, so I know Ross keeps our information private. I'm glad I'm an ace so the site has that support. So, thank you, Ross. @scrivna
Any time you put any info online, it's on the world wide web forever. I don't put my private info, like my birthday and such on Facebook. However, it is the only way I have of keeping in touch with many of my friends around the world. So, I'll continue to not put my personal info on their and stay in touch with my friends.
First of all, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'm not starting a discussion very often and right after the first fair question from Sue I remembered myself why that is :-)
I doubted whether to delete the message. I didn't because it is a subject that's on my mind for some time now and I had a discussion last Sunday that kept me busy. Since 365 is my only social network (I don't actually use FB) this was the place to start the discussion.
Sorry for that.
I'm not going to argue here. It just reminded me of George Orwell's 1984 and the Big Brothers of today like Facebook and Google with their 'good intentions' and the dependence they created.
I just don't think big data is a good thing. And I dislike the fact that you cannot decide what to share and what not. They just gather any piece of information about you that is available. It doesn't matter if you add your length and the colour of your eyes to your profile. They shouldn't but they already know.
So I will delete my account because I may and I can. I know it doesn't make much difference and that there are others collection the same information to fill their databases.
It's a small insignificant step but at least I will be presented some new interesting adverts from now on instead of the product that are not interesting because I just bought them.
This is an interesting topic, thanks for posting and please don't delete it. I might add some thoughts tomorrow, as we are heading to bed in this part of the world.
@mastermek Sorry if my reply came across as abrupt, it wasn't meant that way. I just like the fact that 365 is only about photos and that there is no arguments or debates about other subjects that deteriorate into slanging matches between people with differing views, as on other social media sites.
I guess I was being a bit touchy, sorry!
@suesmith No worries Sue! You were probably right 365 isn't the place for such off topic thoughts. On the other hand, it is something that concerns us all. That's why I'm pleased to see some are interested. It's not my intention to tell anyone what to do but I think it is already good if I can make a few of you guys think a bit further about the subject.
I think this is a perfect place to talk about this - after all, we are doing nothing here but putting out a lot of personal stuff out into the open. Sure, no one gives away their SSN, but through pictures (that are freely accessible to all), you do put out a lot of yourself out onto the web. You can follow people's lives through their photos, their moves, their interests, their political affiliations sometimes. Assuming that this information cannot be used by someone for any kinds of purposes is not a wise thing to do, because it IS in the open.
Thanks for starting this discussion, as for Facebook, they’re doing what capitalism tells them to do, collect all the knowledge they can and then sell it for a profit, I don’t agree with it, but any publicly traded company is bent over a barrel to make money and this was sort of inevitable for them. They’re also very well known for “manipulating” emotions and other experiments which have caused controversy in the past, it’s up to “us” the people and users of these services to set acceptable boundaries for them, it often comes too late though, once a line has been crossed, as we’ve seen from Facebook.
365 is obviously quite a different beast to Facebook. With just me running the site, and the fortunate patronage of our ace members, I’ve never been tempted to even think about monetising users by explicitly selling anyone’s data to a marketing or spammy company, or anyone really. We obviously run ads on the site, and the picture google can put together of a person viewing ads online is easily as “minable” for information as the data Facebook has, so it is a worry for me that this pervasive tracking from large companies is the web that we’ve built.
365 is strange in the sense that by sharing photos people could get a very deep understanding of a persons life on the individual level, but that’s obviously not what the google and Facebook etc data nerds are after, they want broad groups of millions of people with an affinity for political or other groups and to then Sell ads targeting those people.
I’d love to hear anyone’s thoughts on 365 and how I can better serve you guys, both from a photography and a privacy perspective.
@Scrivna not sure if this is the right thread to mention it but it always surprises me that you can download anyone's photo from the site simply by clicking on it. I know it will be a low resolution shot but sites such as Flickr allow you a little bit of protection in that you can restrict sharing of photo's. Granted you could still screen grab I would just prefer it if it wasn't so easy. Other than that it's a great site and I enjoy it far more than FB and the like.
I'm so grateful to you, Ross, for running and maintaining the 365project.org site so conscientiously. One of the reasons this site appeals to me so much more than Facebook or Twitter is that it does provide a deeper and more comprehensive outlet for communication and expression, which appeals to me as being more authentic as well as better suited to me personally. There's an important educational aspect offered here, as well as a more cohesive sense of community naturally created when like-minded individuals engage in a collective activity. Plus, there is a genuine sense of caring on this site that seems to bring people closer together. Sometimes when that's missing on FB and Twitter the results can be truly destructive and very damaging. When I post pictures instead of words I seem to be able to better stay out of trouble! Thank you for being so responsive to your members, and for going the extra mile to care about the quality of their experience here.
Interestingly, the other social media site that appeals to me is Pinterest, which also has much more to do with photography. The founder is from my home state, so of course we must support a home-state boy! Perhaps Pinterest and 365 attract individuals who are a little bit wiser about and more wary of avoiding the more destructive elements of social media. Of course, this has to do with how individuals interact online, rather than invasion of privacy by advertisers, the government, foreign agents etc. Every day each one of us has to make a personal choice about how much of our private lives we want to reveal publicly, and how emotionally comfortable and safe we feel about the consequences of that. Sometimes it's easier to blame an impersonal social media site or advertising giant instead of each user accepting personal accountability for his or her own choices. Just my two cents.
@janeandcharlie@scrivna I wanted to "second" Jane's thanks to Ross for hosting this community. The lack of ads / sales pitches and the real sense of sharing we get here are things that Facebook can never live up to. So glad to have found this!
@Scrivna I want to echo what @sandrajo especially about your conscientious involvement in this site and the sense of community that we all share. I had a FB account but deleted it long ago because of the pettiness that I don't see on this site. I would like to add my sincere gratitude to you for all you do for us.
@Scrivna@rjb71@houser934@grammyn Just thinking outloud here, but if it doesn't exist already, perhaps drafting a privacy policy as well as a user guidelines document that all 365 members could electronically sign before using the site (not to make more work)? Sometimes the best defense to those times when our personal choice is stolen from us is a good offense. Ross could state his intention not to sell personal information in the privacy policy if he thought it would help 365 users feel safer, and also continue to ask for ways to for users to feel safe on the site. If everyone acted reasonably then written policies and guidelines wouldn't be necessary, but it's not reasonable people we're worrying about here. Hackers, thieves, people out to make a buck at the expense of others don't care about the rights and safety of reasonable individuals. Common sense perhaps suggests that reasonable people proactively protect themselves with a good offense consisting of devising a privacy policy and user guidelines? Just a thought....User guidelines would deal with user interactions, and the privacy policy with the other issues similar to what FB is dealing with now (also like if a hacker stole everyone's credit info, or passwords, or something). @mastermek Thank you for listening to my long, drawn out thoughts.
@grammyn@sandrajo My initial thought became an interesting discussion after all. Thanks.
@Scrivna You hit the spot. Which proves once more our capitalistic society isn't always that great. Good to hear you're running this website with your users in mind. That's what missing at your commercial counterparts. Facebook should be that social netwerk it says it is but that social part is just the stick glue to catch careless people. I notice more and more people leaving Facebook which results in the misuse of other networks like Instagram and Linkedin. There's slowly taking the wrong turn too.
I've no idea what you could change here at 365. You can only cover yourself for the misbehaviour of your users. I remember an issue with a member a few years back but I cannot imagine this happening very often. The closer you stay focussed the more dedicated your user will stay.
@rjb71 As for the rights of the uploaded content. I think it's your own responsibility if you choose to upload. And also what you upload. We've had discussions here about what to show and what not. Like your children. Or nudity. You can protect your images with your name. You can use google, the other Big Brother, to search for misuse of your photos. But that's about it if you ask me. Yes Ross could make downloading a little harder but as a developer I know it's impossible to protect images form downloading. More important, I don't think many of us would like to see that happening because we do copy and paste the work of others quite a lot in the discussions, themes and contests.
---
Today is the day, I will delete my FB account for good. With or without you.
Have a nice day!
i have a FB account but i use it mainly to get in touch with my grandsons and a few relatives and friends who are not into "serious" photographic pursuits. these days i very seldom go in there.
when i first started 365, i would always link some of my photos to FB. then one day i got an email stating i should click "agree" to a new user provision in that "all photos posted become FB property" and they can sell it or use it in any way without my prior consent and without compensation to me for profits gained. that didn't sit well with me so i promptly limited my presence on FB since then. (pinterest, it was pointed out to me by one of our IP lawyers, has the same policy.)
i am not on flickr or instagram or twitter even though a number of my photographer friends assure me those are ways to get exposure. but i am happy and comfortable being just on 365project. i have learned a lot from the kind people in this community and that is good enough reason for me to stay here. most of all, i like ross' @scrivna assurance that any and all photos we post remain our property and that they will not be used for any other purposes, profitable or not. however, we are on the internet and the worldwide web is where all the bad guys, hackers, etc. are doing their nefarious rackets so the only protection i believe we can have is to not post anything. however much precaution you employ we will still get a few problems from those bad guys. i am confident though that ross is taking everything necessary for our projects to be safe from such harmful individuals and elements.
mek, thank you for this discussion. i think everyone can learn something out of this type of discussion.
ross, thank you for your wonderful website and for putting up with all of us. and whatever happens, please don't go public!
@Scrivna
Ross - let me start by stating that I love this site and the endless hours of sheer enjoyment it gives me. The members are marvelous, the challenges and themes are wonderful, and the variety of photographs simply amazing.
However, you did ask how you could improve this site.
There is one glaring irritant that frustrates me - as well as others - to no end; and that is how quickly challenges disappear off of the main page in your Latest Discussions menu.
Is it possible to give Themes and Challenges its' own category heading so that other topics (Latest, Articles, Critique, General, etc) do not bury the challenges?
The Hot Topics often duplicates the Latest Discussions board so I imagine you could just divide the two boards into Themes and Challenges and Latest Discussions with Articles, Critique, and General falling under Latest Discussions.
I inadvertently started the Weekly so Happy it's Thursday list when I brought a challenge I was hosting, as well as other challenges, forward when they became buried during a busy week. The response I received was overwhelming and the Weekly SH*T list was born!
This list was created as a way to deal with the busy Latest Discussions board but even this list gets buried 3 or 4 pages back in a single week.
Lastly, is it possible to move the SH*T list to the blog somehow so members do not need to go digging for it?
So sorry to be such a pain in the butt. I really do love this site and only want to see it be the best it can be!
@Scrivna
That would be great!
I know how quickly sites like this evolve and, like anything else, needs change over time. This is probably not the last change you will make to this site as time goes by!
@Scrivna I regularly come back here. It is a genuinely lovely community.
My only suggestion - mobile browsing can be quite difficult - viewing photos can involve a lot of backwards and forwards on pages. I remember a few years back when the site was overhauled, and that was one change I still struggle to get away with.
My 'feed' is great as I can scroll, quick comment, and quick FAV without going back and forth - personally I'd find it really handy on the 'Latest' page etc..
As for Facebook, I'll admit I'm a prolific Instagrammer, but they're definitely listening!
@Scrivna I want to echo other sentiments by others here to thank you for this wonderful site. It has almost completely taken over my time and I love it. I feel like I really know the friends and followers on this site and I feel completely safe in spending my time on this site. You have done a great job.
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On the other hand millions of photo's are shared through the network each day. It must have some connection...
cant be much different to entering competitions and surveys can it?
every once in a while i think i ought to figure out FB (I've kind of lost track of people who only ever interact on FB and missed out on social events, plus i know there's a fairly vibrant photog community there), and every single time i end up ready to throw up as it keeps asking me personal questions and makes it difficult for me to get past the prompts without answering... never mind the fact that i couldn't ever figure out the privacy settings... the latest round of issues pretty much caps it off for me...
First of all, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'm not starting a discussion very often and right after the first fair question from Sue I remembered myself why that is :-)
I doubted whether to delete the message. I didn't because it is a subject that's on my mind for some time now and I had a discussion last Sunday that kept me busy. Since 365 is my only social network (I don't actually use FB) this was the place to start the discussion.
Sorry for that.
I'm not going to argue here. It just reminded me of George Orwell's 1984 and the Big Brothers of today like Facebook and Google with their 'good intentions' and the dependence they created.
I just don't think big data is a good thing. And I dislike the fact that you cannot decide what to share and what not. They just gather any piece of information about you that is available. It doesn't matter if you add your length and the colour of your eyes to your profile. They shouldn't but they already know.
So I will delete my account because I may and I can. I know it doesn't make much difference and that there are others collection the same information to fill their databases.
It's a small insignificant step but at least I will be presented some new interesting adverts from now on instead of the product that are not interesting because I just bought them.
Thanks again for your comments.
I guess I was being a bit touchy, sorry!
365 is obviously quite a different beast to Facebook. With just me running the site, and the fortunate patronage of our ace members, I’ve never been tempted to even think about monetising users by explicitly selling anyone’s data to a marketing or spammy company, or anyone really. We obviously run ads on the site, and the picture google can put together of a person viewing ads online is easily as “minable” for information as the data Facebook has, so it is a worry for me that this pervasive tracking from large companies is the web that we’ve built.
365 is strange in the sense that by sharing photos people could get a very deep understanding of a persons life on the individual level, but that’s obviously not what the google and Facebook etc data nerds are after, they want broad groups of millions of people with an affinity for political or other groups and to then Sell ads targeting those people.
I’d love to hear anyone’s thoughts on 365 and how I can better serve you guys, both from a photography and a privacy perspective.
@Scrivna You hit the spot. Which proves once more our capitalistic society isn't always that great. Good to hear you're running this website with your users in mind. That's what missing at your commercial counterparts. Facebook should be that social netwerk it says it is but that social part is just the stick glue to catch careless people. I notice more and more people leaving Facebook which results in the misuse of other networks like Instagram and Linkedin. There's slowly taking the wrong turn too.
I've no idea what you could change here at 365. You can only cover yourself for the misbehaviour of your users. I remember an issue with a member a few years back but I cannot imagine this happening very often. The closer you stay focussed the more dedicated your user will stay.
@rjb71 As for the rights of the uploaded content. I think it's your own responsibility if you choose to upload. And also what you upload. We've had discussions here about what to show and what not. Like your children. Or nudity. You can protect your images with your name. You can use google, the other Big Brother, to search for misuse of your photos. But that's about it if you ask me. Yes Ross could make downloading a little harder but as a developer I know it's impossible to protect images form downloading. More important, I don't think many of us would like to see that happening because we do copy and paste the work of others quite a lot in the discussions, themes and contests.
---
Today is the day, I will delete my FB account for good. With or without you.
Have a nice day!
i have a FB account but i use it mainly to get in touch with my grandsons and a few relatives and friends who are not into "serious" photographic pursuits. these days i very seldom go in there.
when i first started 365, i would always link some of my photos to FB. then one day i got an email stating i should click "agree" to a new user provision in that "all photos posted become FB property" and they can sell it or use it in any way without my prior consent and without compensation to me for profits gained. that didn't sit well with me so i promptly limited my presence on FB since then. (pinterest, it was pointed out to me by one of our IP lawyers, has the same policy.)
i am not on flickr or instagram or twitter even though a number of my photographer friends assure me those are ways to get exposure. but i am happy and comfortable being just on 365project. i have learned a lot from the kind people in this community and that is good enough reason for me to stay here. most of all, i like ross' @scrivna assurance that any and all photos we post remain our property and that they will not be used for any other purposes, profitable or not. however, we are on the internet and the worldwide web is where all the bad guys, hackers, etc. are doing their nefarious rackets so the only protection i believe we can have is to not post anything. however much precaution you employ we will still get a few problems from those bad guys. i am confident though that ross is taking everything necessary for our projects to be safe from such harmful individuals and elements.
mek, thank you for this discussion. i think everyone can learn something out of this type of discussion.
ross, thank you for your wonderful website and for putting up with all of us. and whatever happens, please don't go public!
Ross - let me start by stating that I love this site and the endless hours of sheer enjoyment it gives me. The members are marvelous, the challenges and themes are wonderful, and the variety of photographs simply amazing.
However, you did ask how you could improve this site.
There is one glaring irritant that frustrates me - as well as others - to no end; and that is how quickly challenges disappear off of the main page in your Latest Discussions menu.
Is it possible to give Themes and Challenges its' own category heading so that other topics (Latest, Articles, Critique, General, etc) do not bury the challenges?
The Hot Topics often duplicates the Latest Discussions board so I imagine you could just divide the two boards into Themes and Challenges and Latest Discussions with Articles, Critique, and General falling under Latest Discussions.
I inadvertently started the Weekly so Happy it's Thursday list when I brought a challenge I was hosting, as well as other challenges, forward when they became buried during a busy week. The response I received was overwhelming and the Weekly SH*T list was born!
This list was created as a way to deal with the busy Latest Discussions board but even this list gets buried 3 or 4 pages back in a single week.
Lastly, is it possible to move the SH*T list to the blog somehow so members do not need to go digging for it?
So sorry to be such a pain in the butt. I really do love this site and only want to see it be the best it can be!
That would be great!
I know how quickly sites like this evolve and, like anything else, needs change over time. This is probably not the last change you will make to this site as time goes by!
My only suggestion - mobile browsing can be quite difficult - viewing photos can involve a lot of backwards and forwards on pages. I remember a few years back when the site was overhauled, and that was one change I still struggle to get away with.
My 'feed' is great as I can scroll, quick comment, and quick FAV without going back and forth - personally I'd find it really handy on the 'Latest' page etc..
As for Facebook, I'll admit I'm a prolific Instagrammer, but they're definitely listening!